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Shimmel –
We were there around 1:30. Were you in the speedboat? Or did you show up (in the SUV with MD plates) just as we were leaving? There was also a family of about 10, but I highly doubt you were in that group.
Speaking as a parent the real problem with revealing who you are is you never know who read your posts. Not every CR reader is a member, and this sort of info can be manipulated and put you at risk of something very evil. Sorry to sound dramatic, but that’s the cold reality of the world on-line.
As a frum person, the need to keep our real-world distance from the other CR members is simply becuase we are of both genders, and mixing the two in the real world has some very negative side effects.
All in all, its best we keep our true indentities and real-world whereabouts as vauge as possible. Friend a total stranger to your Facebook? No, I think not.
NO, I take that back (not the writing style part, which really did have me thinking it was me who wrote it).
I’m convinced that Moshe Rose really does believe in the things he writes (not sure how that jives with him being on-line, but life is full of inconsitencies).
LAer –
Not only do I echo parts of your “MosheRose” profile, I was stopped in my tracks by your writing style. The 1st time I scrolled past it, I thougt I wrote it! Do we know each other?
We went banana boating on White Lake yesterday. Loads of fun, but you need to be ok with getting wet. (soaked actually).
Its $80 for 30 minutes, and up to 6 people fit on the raft. You will also need a person to ride in the speedboat to see if anyone fell off (and that ususaly means all riders). If you can’t find a speedboat rider, you can hire one on the dock for anouther $12.
Another good trip is kayaking down the Delaware (very tame), or tubing down the Esophus (very wild).
You can also check the NYNJ trails conference for hikes of every type and lenght. Ice Cave mtns just outside Ellenville has a small loop that can be done by almost anyone in less than 2 hours r/t, and a longer Waterfall loop which takes about 4 hours r/t.
There’s also the 6 hour ride back to the city, which is great for 1st year bonding!
And one of my boys went to Heller, then to Bey Kyta when it opened (definitly not Lakewood material)
Wolf – Not lakewood material? Of course you are.. you just don’t show it :).
Dovv – I did not mean that is a serious tone or in a bad way. My comment was based on the ad I hear on the radio, and the yeshivas they list as where their staff comes from, while top rate yeshivas in their own right, are not what you (or anyone) would call “black hatters”
In any event, I’m not Lakewood material by any stretch of the imagination either (refuse to give up my 3-button polos and baseball caps 😉
Perhaps. But they don’t charge the senior staff (who mostly come with kids and a spouse), and costs a whole lot more to feed them.
Why not? Becuase senior staff would never stand for it, and teenagers (and by default, their parents) are hostages.
Don’t like it, but its the system we made, so I gotta live with it.
I’m only angry when I can’t access the CR!
My pleasure. Just be sure you live up to standards that will make kids have a fun summer, b’ruchnius and b’gashmius 🙂
Dovv – Chocavim! I thought all the CR members were Lakewood material!
Camps have over 500+ so its realitivly easy to stay anon. Colonies have about 100-200 or so possible suspects, so narrowing it down to a place would almost certainly blow your cover (although, were any of my neighbors to read the CR, they would spot me in a heartbeat, but that’s no reason to make it easy)
While its no excuse, I think there is more tolerance to bad boys becuase its in the nature of men to wander, whereas by nature girls are good, so for a girl to go south, its a bit more shocking.
Like I said, no excuse, as both returnees should be given the clean start they worked towards, but sometimes life is biased
there are many INCLUDING rav Belsky who wont walk into BP
Yes, I know that. It pains my rov as well. And I know of one person who still yells “SHABBOS” like he’s at a rally in EY.
But that does not negate the position of the rabbonim who say its ok. Ball playing? Bike riding? No, that’s not ok. Pushing a baby carraige? Were we in the baby carrage stage when the eruv went public, not so sure I would have insisted my wife go along. At this point, to me its like an issue of cholov stam vs cholov yisroel. I can be machmir, but if the need is there (and believe me, going out on Shabbos if you work all week is a need) and there are serious rabbonim who says its a-ok, I’m not so sure I’d put my foot down.
(sorry mods. Off topic, but this one’s too hot to drop)
Same answer as given on the “camps charging a youth-core processing fee” even though they are not allowed to.
They can get away with it, so they do.
Green eggs – any marriage can weather that. The ham would have been an unsurmountable problem though.
But I’d love to know how you could make meatballs look green. Spagetti is easy, but red meat? Tell me, please.
While I happen to be one of the non-carriers, the BP eruv does have its fair share of really top rate rabbonim who say its a go (no comment on the flatbush eruv. I don’t live there).
But to say its an issur d’oraisa? No so fast.
While Aisov may not have been a known wife-beater, he was a murderer and an aduterer (is that a word?)
By any measure, NOT someone you would want in the family (unless you’re part of The Family :0 )
My vote would be to rent a bunglow upstate. Check the listing in Hamodia; you can get a place for less than $3000 for a month’s stay. This is going to be our 18th year going up, and plan to continue doing so well into our senior years.
I’m going up Thursday IY”H. Kids leave for camp the following week.
I agree with the davening manners yardstick (but I thought to was Wolf that said it). Not the “shukle and fist-pumping” play acting types; the people who daven like they mean it, don’t play around with their blackberry, and behave like they are in the presence of Hashem (which they are!)
The only people who I would say should be unmarry-able would be the selfish and voilent once. Everyone esle can, in one way or another, overcome their medical / physical challenges.
Wolf –
Can you make them green? (Disclaimer: we once bought green ketchup. Tastes the same as the red stuff, but was to bizzare for us to get used to)
So? How ’bout it? Can’t wait to see the photo!
Peerim – was the “yo” really necessary?
I waitered in my camp days, and yes it is very hard work, much deserving of a tip (maybe not what the letter from camp suggests, but at a minimum $20 per trip, even for a slowpoke)
What age / gender comprises your family? How long a vacation do you have in mind? And is there a budget you have in mind?
Obviously. But in many cases, were the posik asked to rule on the situation that may SEEM to be exactly the same as the one the t’shuva was written for, there may be an extra fact or two that, if known might change the ruling altogether.
I can tell you from personal experienece, as most marrieds can, that there is no substitue for a rov, who can make a determination, one that you or I would normaly never come to the same conclusion. Its when joe / Jane average takes it upon him / her self to decide the rules, based on what seems to be corect.
Back to the insensitive comments that Moshe Rose is making, yes, it is hurtful and sometimes infuriating, but give him the benefit of the doubt. Chances are he never saw things the way we in the CR see it, and with time, he’ll soften up.
Moshe, if you’re reading this (which you no doubt will) let me quote an unknown (to me) Breslover who said, “may you be zoicha to see life in its true colors!”
No, really. I know of sevral people who can quote a psak from < intentionaly left blank >, and instead of using this knowledge to know what requires a shai’los chocom, will apply the psak they read to a practical situation. In some cases they are right, but more often than not, they are shoving an extreme chumrah down their family’s throat.
As far as having a rosh yeshiva, you can be affiliated with a great personage, but if you don’t ask for guidance, you’re bound to miss the mark. There is NO odom godol that would have what Moshe said. Even if he “heard” this in a drasha, he is adding 1 plus 2 and coming to the natural conclusion of 3. While this works in math, it does not work in Halacha / hashkofo, unless you’re a posik or moreh horoah (niether of which I would presume MR to be).
And while it is somewhat irksome, I actually enjoy his rants. It makes me appreciate how lucky I am to have been raised to understand the need to have a rov / rebbe / rosh yeshivah / mashgiach / madreicha (Maharat was intentionaly left out!)
No, its not alwasy easy to bend my will to the answers I get. But that’s the price I choose to pay. And by seeing how off base MR is, I see its worth every bit.
I have a friend who stutters, as does several of his kids. Yet, for some reason, they do not have the problem when they read kryiah. No idea why, but its just an interesting fact.
I would disclose (or expect to be told) at the end of the 2nd date. To conceal that which will eventualy come out in any event would show a lack of trust, and presumably, trust is one of the buliding blocks you are trying to lay. There is no telling what the shadchan would have said so its best to clear it up from the get-go and have the facts out in the open.
Try Pomegranate. I never looked, but its the kind of thing they would have. They probably have the seaweed sheets too.
I would just add that, each time you choose righteousness over crassness, the next time you’re faced with a challenge, its much eaiser. Its what is called in Rav Desslers writings as “your bechira point” (the line which you find yourself challenged)
I may not be tempted to knife someone, but boy am I tempted to slander a person who wronged me! But each time I control my temper, it gets eaiser the next time I’m faced with the same temptation.
Same thing with your example. Few of us are tempted to violate # 7 of the 10 commandments. That’ simply below our challenge point. The trick is to make inapproriate speech of the same topic just as out of bounds. Training and constant vigilance gets you to that point. We’ve all walked this path to some extent. You’ll get there too.
No, Nurse, I believe that Moshe Rose is real, and in his mind is truly convinced that what he is saying is daas torah.
He would benefit greatly from a kesher with a rov / madrich that could show him the beauty of yiddishkeit, instead of seeing things so negatively.
Meroas hakemach (the flour cave) is a must. Its in the general area of Masdah and Ein Gedi. I went in the 80s with a local heimesher guide and his driver, but would not do so in today’s climate.
Contact SPNI so get with a tour that can get you there and back without getting lost (or kidnapped).
You can google them to see more info ahead of time. And keep klal yisroel in your tefilos!
First off, welcome back, P-Cseas! (and would you please shed some light as to what your screen name means?)
While I’m not a BT in the literal sense, I do have my share of struggles that I still work on every day to overcome, holdovers from my early days.
I like to think in terms of the board game, Othello. Each flip does more that just add a piece to your tally; it eliminates a piece from your opponent at the same time.
I work in a mixed gender, mixed religion office. As you can imagine, its hardly a bais medrash atmosphere. From time to time, I have something witty to add to an office conversation, but (on my good days, at least) I measure what I’m about to say / do by thinking, “is this going to be mekadaish shem shomayim, or is this going to be a chilul hashem? Is it rightous, or is it nivul peh? Would I say this in front of my Rov?
Each time I choose right, that adds a little sunshine. If chas V’sholom I don’t do us proud, I resolve to try harder next time.
Will you / I be able to turn back the clock to the way things once were? Who knows. But each time we choose right over wrong, we simutaneoulsly win a game piece and snatch one away from the Samach Mem.
Keep up the good work, P-Cseas!
I was toying with the idea for a BP thread, but I’m glad Ty beat me to it, becuase his post was much better.
The only thing I would add is, oil is one of Hashem’s resourses, and one we can and should put to good use. But when greed governs mankinds motives, we can do lots of damage to ourselves. And we have no one to blame but ourselves. I am not suggesting we go back to the horse and buggy days, but do we really need to have such an insatiable appetite for the black gold that we go to any lenght to get it? I mean, drilling a hole in the ocean floor? It must have been a great idea when it was first done, but in retropsect, you have to wonder, did they even consider how they would stop it, if they needed to? Or did they have so much confidence in thier pumps and systems that the mere thought of failure never entered thier mind?
Now we see what happens when you exploit a gift from Hashem.
There definitly is, but I’m not sure which floor. Not only is it well stocked, it is very airy nad has a pleasant deck to sit on, if its not too hot.
And as far as hospitals go, if you need to be in one, Lenox Hill is among the best. My father was there twice and the staff’s attitude is top rate (which does wonders for the recovery process).
Refuah Shleima! (or, Mazel Tov,if you’re there for something positive)
I cannot belive the sentence he was handed today. He may beat it on appeal, but it is still very chilling; a real wake up call.
I see this when my kids (who do not go to movies and do not have a television) get together with their cousins that do. The difference is shocking. And when I point this out to my mother, she simply does not see it. But once I point it out, she says, “yeah, you’re right”. Bottom line: repeated exposure to vulgar things dull your senses.
Mussar Seforim do a good job of cleansing your mind from accidentacl exposure you refer to. If that is not your cup of tea, there is a terrific tape series by Rabbi Buchwald of National Jewish Outreach that put human relationships in a context for today’s society. It will change the way you look at the human relationship in a way you would not believe
Now, back to the subject at hand:
Now, were you to see me, dressed the way I am, with the haircut I have, you could come to a number of conclusions:
He is yeshivish
He is a modern person
Now, those may be two very extreme viewpoints, but you can see how my definition of Yeshivish, may be somewhat different than yours.
In closing, Subjective opinions are just that. They are not fact, but who does the saying, coupled with what that person has shown his or her hashkofoh to be on prior topics, should give you an idea of what yardstick was used to make the statement that was made.
And for the record, I WORE A BASEBALL CAP AND 3 BUTTON POLO yesterday, but changed from head to before going to maariv (so there!)
Oh and one more note. I was refering to the 7/8 grade and HS level only. I have no idea what goes on in the kid division.
But why take my word for it? Google “camp rayim” and watch the videos, check the photos for yourself. Yes, Lipa was there and so was Shloimi Gertner. But see how the (older)kids dress and their haircuts. No caps, no hooded sweats. Compare that with the video clip of <not going to mention the name> and see for yourself if I’m off base.
Was never there as a camper / staff member (not even sure if its been around that long), but that’s the feel I got every time I visited. And I’ve been there plenty of times.
I’m not saying this in a bad way. But if you are planning to attend, expect to be very yeshivish. I’m not going to name names, but what flies in other camps as far as dress code, will NOT cut it at Rayim. Its not who they are.
Thanks – I thought Stevia was a brand
Funny you should mention Stevia, Oomis. I have a co-worker (an aino yehudi) who swears by it, and showed me a packet just yesterday. It did not have a hechsher on it, but it was marked “not for individual sale” so it must have come from a bulk pack. Do you know anything about its hechsher?
Very yeshivish, white shirt crowd. Not even sure if they dress down for ball playing. And leave the abercrombie / roots clothing at home. Ditto the backwards baseball cap.
Learning is top rate, if thats what you’re after. Also consider Camp Morris, Toras Chesed, Toras Chaim, Silverlake, Ohr Shraga (not sure what age you need a slot for)
Since Augdah was mentioned, they alse have a learning division called “machneh efrayim” plus I beleive there are NY yeshivos that are subletting space in the camp, so you can be in Augdah but “not” be in Agudah. No color war, no trips, but the $ is a fraction of what Agudah proper is. PLus there is no way Agudah proper will talk to you (or anyone) at this point of the year. They simply can’t do last minute things, whereas the other camps listed (and the sublets of Agudah) are somewhat more flexible.
(As you might imagine, camps are a big topic in my circle, for what its worth)
You are so right, oomis. I once heard in the name of a godol (don’t remeber which) when he was told that people are “repeating his d’vrei torah in thier own name” (meaning, not giving the credit where its due)
His reply: “Thats ok. Its when the say THEIR d’vrei torah in MY name, I have a problem!
Much like any other uniform or standard, it shows who you identify with and what basic expectations people can expect to see in you.
Do “colored shirt / no hat on shabbos balei batim” have a daily shiur? Of course they do.
Do “black hat / tzitis out balei batim” learn a minmum of 3 hours a night after work? Not always.
But the expectation is, the hatless guy has a television at home and the black hatter does not not. Sticking to a dress code gives you something to idenitfy with and be identifed by. Not a guarrantee, but at least an expectation.
And there are no “golden standards” What is right for me / my family, may be viewed as extreme by others and vice versa.
But like Wolf said, marry the man not the suit. I’m more “yeshivish” now than I was when I walked down the asile. But it was an inner growth, so it took root and holds firm in challenging times as well as in the “kosile bais medrash”
Don’t worry about needing to explain why you made the choice you did / will. If the fundamentals (davening, middos, temper, patience, ect) are secure, all else is immaterial
Sugar is only 16 calories a teaspoon (about what a cup of coffee needs), so there is really no reason to use the artifical stuff.
And for the folks who do so “to avoid sugar” the challoh and danish you eat (unless its whole wheat) mostly turns to sugar anyways, so the teaspoon of the real stuff is the least of their concern.
If anything, the packets of the artifical stuff give a measured serving size (as opposed to just spooning in the real thing) so perhaps that’s a benefit worth considering.
But how can something manufactured me better than the real thing?
I once heard that the “sweetner” in a packet of Splenda is really only a few granules, and the rest of the packet is just a carring agent. Can something that potent be healthful? Hmm…
Thinking Jew –
Really? I did not remeber the exact story, or perhaps it was told wrong, so thanks for clearing it up. I have a hard time believeing that R’ Shapiro (or anyone of his stature) would say something like that, but I guess if you’re quoting it in a forum that would correct you if you were wrong, I must accept the story as you note it.
But it really surprises me. The gedolim of yesteryear measured everything with sensitivity AND halacha, so this comes as a real surprise.
Guess I learn something new every day (even if it goes against mu grain.. guess that’s part of the learning curve)
While I’m mostly convinced that EVERYbody knows where BP is, there may be some “out-of-towners” that are unsure, so BP is short for Boro Park, which is in Brooklyn, NY (America, for those of of the counrty:)
And Squeak, wherever you are, you’re in a state of mind!