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Wow, where would I begin? Over the past 40+ years, I’ve been on the recieving end of so much chesed. Parents, friends, my wife, ect.
If I could narrow the scope down a bit, the biggest chesed I had done for me this year was my boss did’nt fire me in the aftermath of a huge work related mess up earlier this year. At my age, getting back in the job market would not have been fun.
Good point Dave – And you are right; prior to us painting a few years ago, we had a sizeable patch opposite the front door that the wallpaper hanger missed, and we left that as zecher l’churban.
With the new paint job, the whole house got painted off white, so the paler shade of off whote base coat that shows may not be doing the trick. I’ll ask my rov. And thanks again!
Our place has no “rules” about boys and girls but the general trend is once they hit 10 they start to separate. My teen sons will say hello to someone they knew as an 8 year old, but not join them at the table in the pizza store. As far as adults, if your spouse is there, you can join the circle. If not (or if the spouse needs to leave) you leave. Its not rude, its just the gedarim we set up to make sure no accidents happen.
Its called using your judgement. We use it, kids use it.
NOTHING BUT NEGATIVE to say on this procedure. I have 5 people in my friends / family circle and each of them knocked off 100+ lbs but suffer horribly as a result of the band.
1 – since the diet habits rarely change, the person still tries to eat like the used to, but since the stomach has a reduced capacity, they throw up shortly after eating.
2 – not sure why, but the sudden weight loss (and I mean sudden, as in a 2 months) throws a person’s whole physical system out of whack and they look pale / yellow / gaunt / glassy eyed. Can’t really nail it down, but they just don’t look healthy and robust.
Still, if a person is 150-200 overweight, I’m not sure what other options there are. But l’man Hashem, PLEASE have them try a diet / excersice routine first. If they’ve tried before, have them try again. While anonimity is the hallmark of the CR room, if the person you are talking about is male and in the metro area, (or can work thru a male parent / spouse) I would be glad to meet with them and set them on a sustainable plan that can help them lose weight and feel good about themselves.
If its nogea, have them contact me thru the Moderators.
But either way, really think hard before going thru the band.
Or perhaps the idea of women just sitting in public is KH’s idea of assur. In our place, there have been times when people took issue to girls / women playing ball. Not mixed with men, just the idea of ball playing period. Therefore, our place is not mean for that level of frumkeit. On the other hand, I have friends in colonies that forbid grilling, and no one over the age of 9 can sit in front of the bungalow.
Clearly, that’s not a place I want to be. Nor do I want to be in a place where the pool is mixed. SO I (like KH) chooses a place that suits my comfort level. Like so many other distintions, its matter of definition and who’s doing the defining.
On the whole, I’d say all the CR people share some common traits, but like every large group, there are differences. Not good, not bad, just different. For 90% of the issues (Shabbos, Taharas Mishpacha, Kashrus, the need to daven /learn, ect), we most likely agree, for the other 10% (what to wear by davening, ect)is a question of chocolate or vannila. Both good, but both very different.
And one could be “chassidish” without being a memeber of a “chassidus”. Its hard to define, but if you experince a chassidisher tish / chasseneh / fabreng and feel that its speaking to you, you may not be a chossid, but there beats within you a spark of chassidus.
I suppose the same could be said for getting in to a pro sports event. If you’re really into it, the sports fan in you is alive and screaming. So who’s the real you? The identity you choose to see yourself / be seen as.
Choice is yours.
Me neither. All I see in my place is kvetchy housewifes in snoods down to the ears / eyebrows, and laundry hanging from the clothesline strung between two trees.
As far as blowout kiddashim, if you call sponge cake on a styrofoam platter, then my shul is party central!
Ok, Kovod Hatorah, all kidding aside. I’m just being sarastic, because its my nature. I do know that you mean well by alerting us to the bad things that go on in our community. But is it really that bad? That widespread? Not the circles that I (and likley the CR crowd as a whole) travel in. Do we need to be mindful? Of course. Do we need to stay home? No. Its somewhere in the middle, but there is way more good than bad in our midst.
It could safely be said my whole house is zecher l’churban!
Seroiusly, we left a patch unpainted and in general, when we pick up minor nicks and scratches (car included) we leave them as is, zecher l’churban. That part is not halacha, but its our way of living with a galus mentality.
P.S. – I’m with you on the chicken vs. salmon steak, but rules are rules so chicken is out and fish is in. But I did make a huge personal sacrafice in keeping with the 9 days mourning idea; I’m not biking till after tisha b’av. Again, not halacha, but just a personal extra to show Hashem I’m trying to have this period not business as usual.
Look at it this way Wolf. Yeshivish is best defined as compared to the person standing next to you. To some, I may be a greased out, frummed out ben toirah, to others I may be a “moderneh mentch” and to yet a 3rd I might be cookie cutter lakewood. (I’m neither and all 3 rolled into one..it just depends on who’s doing the judging)
And on the topic of yeshivish, how soon can we start calling you Volvie? Or Zevi? That would be a REAL yeshivish statement!
LAer –
LOL! But the truth is, at some point or another, all CR people begin to think alike.
Having spent close to 20 years in the bungalow scene, I find your senario very hard to accept at face value for lots of reasons:
1 – was this girl a child of a resident or a mothers helper?
2 – what was the age of these 2 kids? are we talking teens?
3 – the girl is rarely the agressor,so the whole story seems fishy
4 – my unit’s walls are so thin, I can hear my neighbor shirt hangars scrape across the pole from my side. Know how many instances our place has had of foul play? ZERO. Know why? Because we set up hardline gedarim (guidelines) to make sure nothing goes wrong.
Now, were you to tell me that this happy couple met in the bowling alley at 1:00am, that I would believe, but what were they doing out at 1:00am?
Of course, it COULD have happened, but I somehow doubt it played out the way you describe it. Good bochurim are rarely stalked like this.
My favorite topic; labels.
OK here’s my take:
Borsalino style hat, brim up weekdays, down for Shabbos / special occasions you are yeshivish.
If your boys shave, they are yeshivish (tzitis out are a plus)
If you have a trimmed breard, you are yeshivish.
If you have a full beard, you are SUPER yeshivish
Payos for boys = yeshivish
Payos for totty = might mean a touch of chassidus, unless accompanied by a full beard but borsalino style hat, which would mean SUPER yeshivish.
Defining girls / mommies are harder, but 16 pasenger vans and snoods in public screams super yeshivish (extra points scored if the snood covers the ears)
I could go on, but in the end its really a subjective question
Mr. Hock – too funny! I see your points from all the sem girls my friends have sent overseas. Oi, are they true.
EDITED
Mr. Hock meant to write Harry-ish (meaning the members have names like Harry, Seth, Michael, Sally, ect, as opposed to Duvy, Moshe, Shloimi, and Rivky).
In essence, a very Americaninzed group. And the “meshebairach for the heliege medina” refers to the blessing of the state of Israel, printed in some siddurim. Again, a major no-no in an Agudah place, (other than bracha # 10 and 14 of shemoneh esrei)
Oomis is right. In the 60s and 70s YI was very modern orthodox. Today, many of the YIs out of the metro NYC area have mechitza that would be just as much at home in an Agudah shul.
The big difference is, the socializing that goes on outside of davening and shiurim. Its not uncommon to have a mixed gender Laag Baomer picnic or Chol Hamoed trip in a YI setting (something that would raise a hue and cry in a black-hat crowd)
Plus, many of the YIs still have the dual flags up by the Aron Kodesh (and sing Anim Zemiros in that unmistakable tune!)
As far as lables go, true its not fair to label someone as a “dummy” or “lazy” or any of the other lables that society sometimes puts on a person. But when someone does thier utmost to cultvate a certain look or perception (like lights and sirens on a tricked out SUV that makes a presidental motorcade look lame) there’s nothing wrong with it.. its a complement!
I agree, its wrong to make a blanket statement about all Hatzoloh members, but lets be fair; they do have their share of coyboys. Don’t believe me? Ask a hatzoloh memeber who responds to the 3am calls. He will tell you that there are members who only respond when the public can see and gawk at the jaw-dropping arrival.
As you can tell, I live in Tuna-bagel country, so I know and love these guys like brothers. They don’t take kindly to being called such to their faces, but boy do they love having all heads (mine included) turn to see them tear down the avenue, lights ablaze!
Its not a label, its a brand name!
Tinkleberry more than likley refers to the newly minted yingerman’s obsession with his blackberry. Being seen with one as a bochur would’ve scuttled his shidduch options, but now that he’s post chasseneh, he can show his true colors.
I think the main thing to keep in mind is, he’s only 5! Middle, end, oldest, he’s a little kid growing up in a very big world.
The best thing you can give him now is private time. No “tell me what happend today” no, “what are you feeling right now”; just time spent away from the rest of the family. And not when you / spouse is running errands. Real time (even as little as 15 minutes) devoted to him alone. Make a point of telling him you’re shutting your cell phone, becuase you don’t want to be disturbed (not sure if a 5 year old can grasp the cell phone part, but with kids being as savvy as they are today, he just might).
But as LM (and others will concur) Daven, daven, daven! (FYI – my batch is teens and above, and I still rely on syata dishmaya for the rough spots)
Hatzlocha!
Another good tip is to have an ICE (In Case of Emergency) entry on your cell phone, and list your spouses / parents cell number. That’s were first responders are going to look if you’re unable to speak, and this way, they can reach the right person, ASAP. (Plus, it avoids having your entire contact list find out from EMS you’re in a pickle)
If at all possible, I aim for one minyan, but if I see I need to skip things between Baruch Sheomar and Yishtabach, I’ll do so, in order to catch Shemone Esrai. If I see I’ll never catch them, I just wait for the next minyan thats starting, but I might listen to kriyas hatorah at the missed minyan, as the 15 miuntes saved in the morning sometimes makes a huge difference. That’s on weekdays.
On Sundays (or days off) I’ll simply wait till the next minyan. Shabbos, there’s enougth time to catch up, even if I arrive 15 minutes late, so that’s rarely an issue.
But you are right; korbanos is just that. a korban.Not sure why, but it just is. There is no way I can say all that in 5 minutes (the ammt of time alloted from after Brachos till the start of Hoidu)
Moshe, you surprise me!
Of course you can marry someone whose hashkafa is differnt than yours.. all you do after sheva brachos is tell her, its my way or the highway!
I’m really grateful to Aura(and all the poeple who gave me an insight to the struggles they face / faced) for starting this thread, as it gotten me to think about how I interact with other folks whose observance levels are different than mine (I deliberatly did not use the word BT, as I’m getting less and less comfortable with lables, especially ones that divide us).
This occured to me this morning (during shacris, of course, which is when we do our best thinking) that the “nervousness” I sense in others is not thier problem… its MY problem. I’m the one who’s being intolerant, who’s setting the bar inreasonably high, so no wonder I’m getting a bad vibe. Maybe I’m the one that needs to relax a little.
Anyways, my apologies to all. The only goal you need to achieve is the one you set for yourself. And again, thanks Aura (and all the others)!
One of the best things I see emerging from threads like this is that when all is said and done, we are all not that different from one another. Perhaps a bit unfamiliar with each other’s approach to life, but in the end, we are all striving to reach a common goal; to be true Ovdei Hashem. Uniforms aside, yichus aside. We may grate at each other’s nerves every now and then, but the best part of forums such as this one is we each see the struggles we deal with and by being open, we understand each other a little better.
Clearly, Best Bubby is THE go to person for London, but I will add this:
I heard once that a person should make every effort to see the entourage / trappings of flesh and blood royalty now, so when Moshiach arrives, we will be able to apprciate the differnce.
Enjoy the trip!
Discrimination is a harsh word, and I don’t think that’s the message we FFBs mean to project. I have several BT friends (and one Ger)and the thing that strikes me most is the edginess they always seem to be on. Its almost as though they fear a sudden relaps if they loosen up a bit. I fear heaven too, but I don’t quake in my boots every day like its neelah by yom kippur (maybe I should, but that’s another story).
Point is, relax. No one expects the BT to be in better behavoir than the older members. Trying to “out-frum” your teammates gives off nervous vibes, and our reaction to that may be what you’re sensing.
At any rate, rest assured. Us FFBs are also “baale teshuva” on an ongoing basis, so we’re all in the same boat
For such a short stay, you can call Kutchers (if its mid-week, as I’m not sure what the minyan story is there). They have a full food plan (hechsher for 2010 is ok) or a room only rate which was in the paper last week for $99 / night.
Another option (if shabbos is in your plan) is the motel next door to Mountain Fruit. Not sure of the name, but its rare that they are booked solid, and from there you walk to minyan.
Colonies are really not an option for such a short stay, unless you go to a place where you know someone who is there for the summer.
A word caution RE “your insurance / credit card will cover the damage” they may pay for actual damage, they will not pay for the time the car is out of service.
Don’t skimp on the extra $12 for full coverage. You can live without the insurance on your personal property, but the car should be covered to the hilt
Happy to report, all was well over the weekend in the mountains. If there was any “horrible and ossur” things going on, it was discrete. My guess is, the problem lies in defining “ossur”. My wife may not go to Walmart in sandals, but if yours does, its not ossur, its just that we have different ideas of what’s ok and what’s not.
But I do have a juicy story to relate: This past week, 3 boys were spotted smoozing in walmart;
Boy A = tzitzis out, payos behind the ear, white shirt. Cookie cutter yeshiva buy
Boy B = 3 button polo, bulging biceps, smaller yarmulka than that of boy A
Boy C = shorts, sandals, and a “yechi” yarmulka (no, he is not Chabad; he also wears Na-Na yarmukas, whatever strikes his fancy)
So? Do we have a “teen crisis”? Is Boy A “at risk”? Is Boy A “hanging out with the wrong crowd”?It would sure seem that way!
Until you know the facts. Because Boy A is my son, his mother was 2 asiles away, Boy B was a former neihgbor, who just happens to be a touch more modern, and Boy C is a classmate’s sibling, who just happens to be a character. Not a crack head, not a drug dealer, not a mechalel shabbos. And while Boy B many not plug away at the gemorrah as many hours as Boy A does, he is still a very good boy and a huge baal tovah and baal middos.
Moral of the story? If you knew the facts, you’d see things a little differently!
I’m going to guess that you’re probably post HS, and maybe even 2nd or 3rd year BM. If thats the case, many of the sleepaway camps lose their older bochurim in Av to other jobs where they have camps. Make some calls now, and see if they will take you on as a madrich / rotator for the 2nd half. Also, check with your friends to see if they know of openings / cancellations. If your flexible, you can find something.
As a last resort, check the classifieds. There is often a part time job in a neighborhood office that is looking for someone to do lite office work. Not the most glamorous summer job, but at least its clean work.
I’m with Wolf. Why do people think its either or? The only thing I would add is, college, while very important in today’s job market, is not the only way to being a self-sustainer. If someone has a good work ethic, they can be just as successful (perhaps more so). The point I have my boys focus on is, aim for something you enjoy, AND pays well. There is nothing as dead-end as a job you hate (be that learning, computing, chinuch, whatever). I have friends that are in chinuch and LOVE what they do, and it shows. Success is hard to measure, and is more than just dollars and cents.
I would feel comfortable with 90% agreement on the fundametals (hair coverings, hechshairim, TV / Movies yes or no) and the remaining 10% (how much time spent learning each day, what flies with the kids, ect) should be a give and take as the couple grows.
We have 20+ years behind us, and still don’t see eye to eye on each and every point. Some areas are my domain, some are hers. But the fundamentals are pretty much in sync
Ok, I’ll be there this weekend, and I’ll keep my eyes open for trouble.
And FYI – just before the start of the summer season, I went to hear a Pirke Avos shiur from one of BP’s biggest machmirim, anf from all the no-nos he listed off, the only one me and Mrs. BP went afoul on is “walking for excercize”.
He felt its ok for her to walk to the grocery or to work, but just walking for the sake of walking, that’s the red zone.
But as rescue pointed out, not everyones idea of sin is the golden and absolute standard.
And please, chill out! There’s a whole lotta yiddishkeit on Rt 17.. just look for it, instead of looking for the negative.
“Good bye L-rd, I’m going to the country…”
Huh? Not sure what colonies you’ve been to that justifies such a statement, but at my place, and most places I’ve visitied, you have daily minyonim, chavrusos, real safeguards in place to prevent tznius problems. True, I have my share of fun and games, but to say the catskills is a modern day sodom? Please.
Moshe Rose, is this you, under a differnt name?
Art – I thought this was a review of a restaurant you ate at last night!
And yes, its also true that many highly educated people are having a tough time finding work. But for the most part, skilled, talented, educated people have a better shot at earning a decent living, while uneducated folks are stuck in a dead end.
Emuna and bitachon are the foundation of who we are, but they must be paired with thought-out hishtadlus on our part, that allow us to seize the heaven sent opportunities when they come knocking.
What “horrible and ossur” things are you talking about? Am I missing something?
I’ve been going to the catskills since 1993, and I really don’t see the 5-alarm blaze you do.
Whats up?
Is a white shirt with a Nautica logo on the pocket any more “yeshivish” than a blue shirt with no logo?
A Pushete Yid – (who is apparently nisht azoi pushit!)
You make a very interesting point. My boys wear white shirts. Oddly enough, logos on the pocket are not really an issue in HS past 9th grade, but once you hit bais medrash level, high end shirts are almost mandatory (think Brooks Brothers, Paul Fredrick, ect)
Ditto! (and thanks, Oomis for starting this thread.. finaly a topic all CR members can agree on!)
This thread dropped to the bottom of the freshness pile, but I think there is some important points that the younger memebers should keep in mind. PLease, be careful with the info you disclose! (see previous post for details)
Rebbitzin – it was in an earlier post, you missed it, but beileve me, you didn’t miss anything.
All I hoped to accomplish with my post was to keep our CR as clean and tidy as it should be. We CR dwellers make every effort to keep this place a wholesome environment, and keeping the shprach as befitting a YNW is one of them (IMHO).
This reminds me of a comic routine done by Jackie Mason, where he goes to a therapist because he is feeling out of sorts.
Therapist: “of course you’re feeing out of sorts. You are not in touch with the real you. Together, you and I, will discover the real you!”
Jackie: “How much will this cost”?
Therapist: $75 per hour”
Jackie” When you find the real me, bill him!
Personaly, I find my real self just by bannana boating 🙂
Heavy topic, Feif.
Like you, I had my share of bad raps (some really bad in fact).
What gave me loads of nechomah is the fact that I’ve come full circle and in many cases not only proved the nay-sayers and critics wrong, I’ve even acheived success beyond the wildest expectations.
One example: I ran into trouble as a teen and the wife of the decision maker who sealed my doom way back then, is now in charge of the school that my son goes to, considered one of the “better” bklyn schools. Wether or not she told her husband that the teen he busted and tossed out into the cold (and he would have protected me, if I had enough famliy connections) now has a charming child in a top school is irrelevant. The fact is, I KNOW.
Another example: many of my grade-school years biggest tormentors (yes, my growing up years were anything but fun) are now in no position to laugh at me or anyone for that matter. Either messed up families, kids, finacials, in / just out of jail. Whatever the case, I’M ABOVE ALL THIS JUNK, so who’s the winner, now that its in my past?
Bottom line, you turned the corner and got past it by coming back and making a go of it, despite the bad past you endured. Don’t bother facing your rebbie; your current (and future) success is the best revenge!
Be strong, and continued hatzlocha!
Mischiefmaker – Wow do I feel for you. I’ve been in this seat before, so I know how bad it hurts. The fact that you wrestle with this each Rosh Hashonah shows just how big a person you are (despite your age). All I can say to you is with time, you will achieve bigger and better things and this will no longer hurt as bad. I had one incident where a camp cheated me out of $, and I can tell you, at the time (to a teen) it was a fortune. Know what? I earn that much now in a few days. Doesnt make it right, but it doesnt hurt as bad as it did then. And best of all? I’m still here, striving and succeding, and those ganivim? Who gives a hoot. I’m sure they got what they dished.
At any rate, threads like this is what makes all the shtism in the CR worthwhile. Once we hear we are not alone, we move on feeling a little bit better.
Hatzlocha to you too!
And as far as straw hats – thank you for taking me back to my teen years (yes, also in BP).
I clearly remember the gabbai announcing “with the approaching holiday of Memorial Day, all mispallelim are reminded to start wearing “dem shtroi-enem hit” and ties are no longer necessary for shalesheedis”
Boy do I miss the 70s!
I took real issue with the “Yo” for two reasons;
# 1 – its “gaas raid” and has no place in the CR
# 2 – for the most part, the CR members are adults (and in many cases parents and grandparents) and while anyone has a right to join in, they should speak in a tone that is the accepted one in the group.
But the biggest irritant is the attitude that is associated with gaas raid. I’m willing to bet he smokes too (and may favorite.. he wears his baseball cap sideways or backwards!)
But seriously, he is in a room full of bnei and bnos torah, and he should speak our language.. not that of the street.
If your’re in the Bklyn area, Mr. Mendelovich on Ft. Hamilton Pkwk is the best in the business. He removes the atoroh, gives you a new lining, ect. The cost is roughly $60
Whatever you do, DONT wash it in the machine. I did it to one, and the white pulled thru from under the black stripes so it looked like it was covered with lint (but was unremoveable)
Oh, I was not clear. By saying “ruling you out” of the family of 10, it was because that group was most definitly not CR material (by ANYONES standards)possibly not even jews.
By 3:30 I was back home. The family of 10 was most definitly NOT chassidish (that’s why I ruled you out).
Hmm. You think someone else is me, LAer talks / writes like me.. who am I really?
I actualy see the CR as being very much a barrier to LH. The mods do a great job of keeping us (at least me) in line. No one like to see EDITED on their posts, so with that in the back of my mind, I think before I write and click send post.
I don’t really follow the news page, so no comment on that (all I need to know, I find out in the CR!)
NOT EDITED
I have a Chaverim story of a different sort. Last summer, my friend’s car broke down in the Home Depot parking lot on the NJ 17. Within 5 minutes, Chaverim was there. Pretty standard so far.
Unfortunatly, they could not help us. So with little choice, we settled down until AAA showed. So why am I telling you this story? Becuase “it just so happened” that we broke down on Tisha B’av and “it just so happened” that I had picked up a copy of Tisha B’av to Go from YU, and “it just so happened” that Dr. D Pelcovits had an article in that issue on the subject of dealing with loss, that helped me address the issue with my son, who had just lost a friend in a car accident.
2 hours later, AAA showed up and towed us away. But in those 2 hours, I was able to reach my son when / and in a way he needed me to.
So I guess you could still call this a Chaverim success story, after all.
LAer –
No daughters in our lineup (until the D-I-Ls show up):)
Our boys are 14-20 (Yes, I hear the clock ticking, ticking, ticking…..)
But it was more than just our ideas being on the same track. “Sheesh, lighten up” and the outrageous identity you painted for MR is just the kind of wise-cracky sarcasm that I would have written. Boy will it be funny if we do rin into one another one day. Then again, we have a few new familes in our colony this summer, so maybe…. ?