bpt

Then someone else must have been responding to the Mod 80 e-mail address 2 weeks ago!

Either way, I’ll be better behaved going forward 🙂

While I’m all for a l’chaim now and then, soda is not enough of an incentive. If the Kentucky Uncles and cousins are making an appearance, please drop me a line!

Back to shidduchim, while I like the analogy of musical chairs, it struck me this morning (yes, during shacris, sorry to admit, I know, I know, I need to work on that) that some readers may have taken offense to the idea that we refer to this serious business as a “game” So rather than think of this as the musical chairs game we played in kindergarden, I think a more appropriate comparison would be visiting a chair showroom.

You need to find one that fits your budget, your taste and most inportant, your needs. The finest chair is of little value to you, if it does not fit your lifestyle. And just like we don’t allow a salesperson to talk us into choosing something that we don’t feel right about, if they cannot show you what you have in mind, there are other stores to shop at.

And like all shopping experinces, you can drive yourself nuts by endlessly looking, or you can determine your needs before heading out and zero in on whats right for you.

Singles! Take it from us married folks.. you can do this! Don’t allow the fear factor to damper your attiude. We did it, and so can you. B’hatzlocha, and b’korov, mamash!

I gave you a solution.. a few times. You just seem bent on focusing on the problem.

And there is a VAST world beyond BMG. The system would have us believe otherwise, but it aint so. Like I said, break out of the box, and you’re halfway home. And bli neder, this is the last post I make on the age gap topic. You see the problem, I see the soloution. But I will add this: since whoever put the list of 22 schools together does know who the “under 10%” rate is, THAT should be made public, becuase for whatever reason, their grads ARE getting married. Perhaps not pulling from the BMG pool, but fact is, they are going down the aisle. And hooray for the mechanchim / mechanchos who are at the helm of those ships.. they are doing their job!

And don’t say, “if one wins, its at the expense of another single. If the 20% single rate school knew what the under 10% school knew, THEY WOULD FIND THEIR BASHERT because he is out there. HASHEM GUARRANTEES THAT, so its not me who has a problem with your theory

“their numbers would perhpas get better and a different schools numbers would get worse”

Not necessarily so. There ARE enough boys on the planet for each and every girl (unless you don’t believe in hashgacha protis, and if so, the conversation ends right here.)

That of course cannot be the case, so its just a question of finding / matching the “overlooked gems” that are oout there. Do the “hard cases” (older, less glamorous, less than perfect dress size, not enought money / yichus) require more work? Of course they do. Will shadchanim work as hard as the single will work for themselves? Not so sure. So the best soloution for those facing an uphill battle is to do the work themselves.

But I’d still love to see the data on the boys.

As lakewood fellow said, there are plenty of chairs, just not in the room you’ve locked yourself into. Think out of the box and soloutions will present themselves

Never invest more than you can afford to lose. Stocks are not like money in the bank. You can invest $5000 today, and have it drop to $3000 in a few weeks. And in some cases, the $3000 will never get back to the $5000 you started with (been there, done that). Still, stocks should be a part of your investment mix. Figure on 20% of your assets, not more. The bulk of your $ should be in a bank where its safe. (unless you’re talking about 6-7 figures, in which case you need a proffesional money manager)

Also consider buying a mutual fund instead of a particular stock. In the 80s, almost stock you touched turned to gold. Not so easily done in today’s market.

It sure will change the nature of the game. Here’s how:

1 – the boys will not be led to believe that there is a inexhaustable supply of girls, so they can be as lackluster as they want an still win

2- girls who are led to believe that they “dont stand a chance” becuase of some imaginary defect will realize they can control the game to a greater extent than they currently do (right now, its the shadchanim who hold the whole deck)

3- it will make parents set realistic support terms. Right now, if a so-so boy ahs a great agent, he can swing a better deal than someone with real talent (and girls / girls parents bite down hard an swallow this travesty because of the fear factor

And contrary to popular believe, there are EXACTLY the same ammount of boys to girls out there. Hashem see to that. What He does not control is our societies warped attitude.

And yes, I have see the “age gap data” that was released early this summer. My friends and I spent hours discussing and analyzing it. Yes, there are a small percentage of girls that are still stingle after being in the shidduch market for 5-10 years. But I’ll venture a guess and say there are the same number of single boys out there as well. Its just that they seem to have a longer shelf life (or so they think / are let to believe).

If we were to hold our youth accountable for their “marketabiity” we’d be pleasantly superprised at the results.

In thinking about the choice of title “musical chairs” I like the idea for a different reason.

Right now, much of what drives the litvishe shidduch market is the fear factor (I might not get married if a don’t dress a certain way… I may not get dates if a fess up to a certain non-conventional ideal which I believe in… all the good boys are going quick, so I better take the 1st one that askes, even though as things stand now, this one shows no indication of being able to support his family, ect)

In an open contest (which is necessary to play musical chairs) the most nimble players would win. Not yichus, not money. Your own abilities, your own talents would assure you a fair shot. And, before you enter the ring, you could see who the players are and decide if you want to try this round or look for another where you think you’ll find folks more similar to you (or at least how you see yourself)

And if this idea sounds familiar, it is. Its called a singles weekend. Pehaps not the right venue for 18-21 year olds (or 25 year old who can only relate to 18-21 year olds), who want others to do their homework for them, and are prepared to settle for whatever the market allocates them. But for young adults who have the confidence to earn their own rewards, this is an idea whose time has come (again)

I saw that clip (its been out for a while). Wanna see real change in the music business? Have major rabbonim / rosh yeshiva agree not to attend a chasseneh where a pop star is hired (and at $10,000 a night, you can’t call them anything else).

And by attend, I mean not the chuppah, not the dancing. Just not show up. No matter who or how rich the baal simcha is.

Until then, the pop-star singer has the full endorsment of the establishment..no matter how many posters or ads they print.

(for the record, I’m a huge fan of most of the banned performers)

As far as Rav Amnon in particular, like all other bans, some will listen, most will not, but even if just one person makes a change in their music habits, Rav Amnon will feel he’s accomplished something.

Sof –

I’m with you on the age gap, but from a different angle. The reason 23-24 year old boys only considering 19 year old girls is because they cannot compete with girls their own age. They have few commercial skills, and have little ambition to aquire them.

This does not exist in the chassidishe velt, becuase they are both young and have no advanced schooling.

Solve the confidence crisis, and you solve the shidduch crisis

I’m with poppa – even though he wants me convited 🙁

There are loads of “undiscovered” gems, just waiting to be polished.

AZ – the shadchanim don’t just play the misic.. they play us too.

Several points to address:

Oomis – think dormitory and camp. In fact, things got so out of habnd in one camp (with boys staying awake until dawn) that they forbade mid-day naps (which is what the boys were doing, to have the strenght to stay awake). The senior staff (being heads of household) made night at 11:30 or so, and shortly there after, the boys were free to roam.

SJS – OK, maybe the pistol is too harsh a comparison. Lets go with what R’ Matisyahu Solomon said,

“We understnd the need to drive a car. But society understands then need to regulate this. That’s why there are age limits, speed limits, lane restrictions, ect. Internet needs the same control.

My wife / boss help to keep my web habits in check. Who controls my kids habits? Answer: Parents. Will he / she eventualy be self-monitored? Of course. But in the meantime, I need to set limits

the payphone option is not nearly as practical or private as a cell phone in your pocket. And while I trust my kids not to drive down to Atlantic City, beacuse they can weight the risk / reward ratio (just like we adults do) putting web / texting in their pocket, is way too tempting. And trust me, at 2:00am, men are not thinking rationaly. The web is a vital part of daily life, but it needs control.

Mamash – My son said hello to someone in shul (lets call him Duvie) who I did not know. When asked, he said, he knows him from the Thursday Nite cholent bar, thru his roommate who was in camp with him. This camp was 100s of miles from where we live, and now he knows someone I never met. Now, all of Duvie’s friends just became my sons friends. How? via texting.. from the comfort of his dorm or bus or waiting in the dentist’s office.

Today’s kids have a social network we adults can’t even fathom.

Of course they do..

Who else will shave off 30 lbs and 10 years every time they ask the most obvoius questions?

My son did not get a phone until he was in Bais Medrash. And as far as “teaching proper boundaries”, believe me, SJS (and I think 90% of the CR will back me on this one) a bochurs judgement at 2:00am is not the same as it is at 2:00pm (and the AM hours are when many teens are up and about).

Putting a phone in a teens hands is like handing a person with a temper a pistol. True, not all temper-given people commit murder, and not all calm people will always walk away from a tense situation, but if I as a parent can help my son make the decision to stay above water, I think I should.

Just like, as a good parent, I should encourage good study habits, (and make sure the environnment he is in is one conducive to good study habits) I should also see to it that, to the extent possible, his ruchnius environment is just as conducive to success

LaGuy –

I was going to use that line, too! (Nice to see I’m not the onlu wisecracker in the group)

Anavah.

When I entered the dating circut, my father told me, “if she will marry you, despite your shortcomings, you should be willing to overlook her shortcomings.

It worked for him, and it worked for me!

Oh, pay no mind to me.. I’m just being my grouchy old 40+ year old self (my chosson days are a distant memory!)

I’ll tell you what I tell all new members to the marrige club: its not as easy as the singles think it is, and not as hard as the marrieds make it sound. B’hatzlocha!

Whoa, Blintz.. nisht poshut!

When I’m ready to cut some fresh powder in the Idaho backcountry (read: never!) I’ll call you for some pointers.

Florida, on the other hand sounds real temtping..

Awesome shots, though. I’ve tried the bunny slopes, and can only imagine what you faced. And with all that, you have the presence of mind to take pictures! Whew!

Also probably posted before, but worth repeating:

Shadchan: Do you use disposables or china?

Me: We use disposables, but treat it like china. (we’re from the poor side of BP)

Besides, I think my “if you don’t stop hassling my kid” disclaimer would help me around the “imminent” loophole. (if he stops, the danger is not imminent)

See? All those Scott Turow novels paid off afterall!

Several people (some here, one in another thread) took issue with my “feed the kid to the bears” tactic. So let me reply to all points raised:

Long term trauma – Please. If this one incident puts this kid in therapy, then his childhood was anything less than ideal. I was told the boogeyman would come and get me if I did not behave. It kept me in line for 20 minutes, and then I moved on. Until the next time I was told, and soon after, I forgot about it. Rinse, wash, repeat. Why? Becuase my mother told me not to worry that narishkeit, and WORRY ABOUT THE POTCH I WOULD GET if I don’t stop picking on XYZs kid (or whatever the crime was).

Was the threat too harsh? Why did’nt I “talk” to the kids mother? Becuase she was too busy “talking” to her little mazik, and in the meanwhile, my kid was afraid to leave the portch. So.. should I have kept my kid indoors? Pack up and go home? Teach my kid to fight back? None of those seemed practical, so I went with plan B (which worked quite well, thank you very much).

Funny though was the comment to my “5 alarm code one” situation, where it was suggested that the out of control kid be “picked up and carried outside”.

Are you kidding? Lay hands on another persons child? A person no less, who has, shall we say, liberal, enlightened, ideas of parenting and social etiquette?

Can you spell LAWSUIT? No, I think that idea would not be in my top 10.. unless the kid had a pistol, and even then I’d try the ice-cold meanacing voice.( Come to think of it, if he had a pistol, he could use it on the bear!)

Utility bills – You do not need to save a years worth of phone bills or EZ pass statements. Once you pay it, toss the bill (if you need a copy, it can be gotten on-line)

After falling for Mod-80’s joke about Wolf “talking during laining, I HAD to open this thread.

(and Torahls1 – I have no idea why your comment got squashed, but I’ll answer it on the “potch” thread later today. And don’t feel bad.. I’ve had comments squashed too.)