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” Could you please expand on this? “
Expand on this? With pleasure! I’ve been working on this post for almost 20 years (my bungalow carrear to date)
1 – it makes you appreicate having someone at home when you come home
2 – meals (that needs no expanding on)
3 – When you get to see how truly nutty some other wife are, you appreciate your own wife even more than you already do
4 – being able to get home in under 60 minutes (as opposed to having a 2.5 hour commute) makes you (and your mrs) appreicate how nice it is to live in the metro area, no matter how nice the suburbs seem.
” how many options there are for cholent at 2 in the morning”
This is a hard point to refute. Luckily, there are the 9 days, so its back to the appreciation route. (and back to rice cakes and duck sauce for some of us)
“Is this even a question?”
Not in my mind. For a well rooted, sound marraige, its the best thing, and enhances your relationship.
For a rocky marraige, in most cases it just accelerates a process that is already underway. Its not the bungalow that did it.
Anyone who read the article will see that it was written by someone who (by her own admission) was on shaky grounds. It was a poor example of what bungalow life can (and in most cases) be
“you cant pay bills with a great feeling. Please respond with your opinion”
In my opinion, this should not be a “job” it should be something you do for people you know. And the truth is, if you’re only acting as a broker between 2 parties you don’t know, you should charge (and they should pay) as much as the market will support.
Just don’t call me. I / my wife will not have spent the last 40+ years of putting down roots and playing it straight to have to resort to relying on a broker, nor will my kids have spent the last 20+ years being good kids to be at the mercy of a warped system. If after all the work we have put into getting where we are, the only calls I get are from proffessional power brokers, then I / my kids have failed. So charging $$$$ to set us up with some unsuspecting mechutonim, without knowing anything about us is wrong and misleading.
OTOH, if you know us, and know the other side, and both are straight-forward people to work with, the shadchan’s efforts are minimal, so mega bucks is uncalled for.
But regardless of the work involved, please keep in mind, we are talking about kids whose potential may be great, but still nowhere near proven. Why should they command a price tag like that?
I may not be able to change the system, but I sure don’t need to abide by it.
“means you are always expecting him ergo he will never come”
“Awaiting and expecting are not the same thing”
Maybe a better word is “anticipating”
Either way, what I meant is, I have little holding me back in the material world that would not make me thrilled to hear that galus is over.
I’m ready at a moment’s notice.
“I think it’s obvious BPT was being facetious”
“Hes not serious”
Not kidding, and am very serious. Its time we as a community start linking rewards / compensation to the extent of the product that is delivered.
No young couple should have a “pricetag” greater than $1500. They have yet to prove themselves, and should be treated as such.
And since it was mentioned, IMHO the scale of gifts / weddings need also be scaled back, as a young couple does not deserve the launch package that exceeds the kallahs annual salary. In most cases, the chosson has no salary to speak of, so anything he gets, should be greeted with humilty and gratitude.
Best bocher? Yeah, him and 10,000 others just like him.
Proof is in the results. By rewarding kids with such bounty that is not linked to any reality sets the stage for a warped sense of entitlement.
And as far as living in BP or not, lets put it this way: When I first moved in to BP, men worked after the wedding, and your reward was a result of your efforts. Not a result of “what the market will bear”, or how much you can extort from your in-laws.
So I’m not trying to change things; I’m trying to getback to where we were before the mess we currently have on our hands.
“We understood this despite the typo.”
Too bad I didn’t have you sitting by my side to clairify what was meant, as I obviously totally missed the true intent.
“he responded as if he was disrespected.”
Not me, that I took to being disrespected. It was the sanctity of marraige I thought was under attack
And you do make a very important point: words can do much good or C’V much harm.
And sorry (as is the case here) doesn’t always work.
Still, I’ve had my fair share of positive, supportive, encouraging posts, so hopefully, I’ll be judged by the larger picture.
OK, that single word makes a HUGE difference, especially when read in the context of the rest of the post:
*I always had this “hang up” that why should i wanna get married and have to deal with all the technical halachos
*always have to make supper, be there for my husband and kids….
*i would just rather have a boy friend and have no commitment
That, and the comment earlier today on the topic of mixed gender friends (that a married man is less of a problem!)
OK, giant step back. Re-read with the word NOW, changes the whole thing.
Now that this is cleared up, next week we can start the madness and mayhem all over again!
Ok, I changed my mind about no further comments. Your last post deserves one. Here it is:
Grow up.
“Utter nonsense! You do deserve it, and its good and its true.”
Boy, I sure wish I knew how to bold, but since I don’t, please forgive the all caps that follow:
HEALTH – IF YOU’RE GONNA QUOTE ME, PLEASE QUOTE THE WHOLE STATEMENT!
“Utter nonsense! You do deserve it, and its good and its true.”
(repeated, for empasis)
The voice in her head that is advocating to stall is talking narishkeit. The voice of truth (which is not always as loud as the voice of falsehood) is telling her, “Don’t let this one slip away!”
” if you’re always expecting him then he won’t come “
Huh? Check your siddur, Ani Maamin, # 12.
Moshiach now!
Her side = 10% of the ring or $500, whichever is greater.
His side =
Depends:
* Working boy? A flat $500
* Full time kollel? 20% of the the kallah’s estimated yearly earnings or $1,000 whichever is greater.
And miss all of my chochmas?
Oh well, its your call….
MW13 and Health –
You are both making valid points. My comments are based on what the OP says, and I have no reason to doubt her. Face it, its not that uncommon in our circles to find husbands that are allowing their wives to bear the burden of both the homemaker AND the breadwinner.
True, everyone deserves a 2nd chance, and mental help when they need it. But in the meantime, the wife dreads each day she wakes up and has to look at this lump of coal.
I say coal, because under the right conditions, coal could turn into a diamond.
But right now, he’s a burden, and refuses help or to make an effort.
The larger point I was hoping to get across is not so much to the wife in this particular example. What I was hoping to do is put an end to the notion that men can shirk their responsibilities and be confident that the wife will cover for them and tolerate them.
I see this as no different than physical abuse. Once you know that not everyone will stay quiet, its makes you think twice before doing something hurtful.
But I still stick with the 6 month deadline. If he is willing to work things out, she will surely give him the chance.(L-rd knows, she’s given him 10+ years!)
If he won’t (or can’t) work things out, she /the kids should have the option to have a fresh start.
You’ve got bigger issues to worry about. Like the fact that (if memory serves me correct) this is the first time the CR is seeing mention that you’re engaged.
As far as capacity, a vort is a come-and-go affair, so its doubtful you’ll have all 400 there at one time.
Nu, how big a rock? And what kind of watch did he get?
“does the chasidishe wife get any personal spiritual fulfillment from living the lifestyle?”
Yes. Plaid suits, wedge flats, bulletproof stockings (that are not as bulletproof as they used to be) and those Jackie Onassis hats. And jewelry to make Harry Winston look like Zayles.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
” Hey, you givin’ out brachos? “
I did even better. I said the whole tehillim on Purim. I’ve seen one result so far, (and am waiting for several more) My list was pretty targeted, but also included everyone in need of a shidduch under the general header, so that means you too!
” does that present a tznius issue? “
Does what present an issue? The park? The competition? The concept of competing / measuring yourself against the secular world in terms of health and fitness?
Before you know it, and when you least expect it.
I’m packed and ready to go. I’m just waiting to hear the shofar, and I’m outta here!
I had no idea the personal trainers are as qualified as MG noted (mostly because I never used one)
That said, you can still offer your service as a trainer, and charge 10-20% less than the professionals do, untill you get the necessary training.
As long as you are honest about what you can and cannot offer, there is a market.
What I meant by “meet in park” was instead of training indoors, an outdoor park will give the client a chance to see what she can aspire to, if she sticks to a training regiment.
By the way, another untapped market is outdoor day trips for frum women. If you can provide transportation, you can take a paying group to a park like Harriman or Bear Mountain (if you’re in the NYC area). There are trails of all abilites, and most can be done in under 3 hours.
(If all else fails, you can alway take them to Woodbury Commons. Nothing works you harder than hand-to-hand combat, and WC is the shopping bootcamp 🙂
Try the site adventures for women. org
They do all sorts of outdoors events and many of them are day trips
No further comment
“one thing that they have which I will never have… is that they have a rebbe”
Depends on who you marry. There might be a rebbe in your future after all!
” leave your hat and ” langa rekel” home!! “
It cracks me up to see the chevrah at a Yankees game, with their g’crazelte payis flipped behind their ears, so they can blend in.
(Like the accent doesn’t blow their cover in a NY second)
” if the guy is married do things change then? ”
Are you kidding us?
There are three things you don’t share:
Your toothbrush
Your Eggo
Your spouse
This is an area that should NEVER be explored. Anything more than hi, goodbye and what’s the weather, is asking for trouble
(if you were born after the 70s you probably won’t get the Eggo joke)
” it just hit me that its time for me to move things “
Tick-tock, tick-tock, tick-tock….
Gotta time frame in mind? (My guess is down the aisle by late Feb)
” Does your son have any options yet? “
All the names you hear in the yeshiva circle. R’ Tzvi, R’ Sholom, Yagdil.
All are good, but we can only pick one.
Haven’t in a long time, but I really miss the Bond movies!
And I’ll bet the Harry Potter saga looked 10 x better on a big screen than it does on DVD (Babby’s house, natch)
Thank you for reviving this thread, as I’m nearing the point sending off my son, and need all the chizuk I can get.
Its especially reassuring to see R’ Sholom Shechter’s yeshiva mentioned by name, as that yeshiva is on our short list
(lightbulb joke would have been funnier if it had a diet coke or shabbos meal invitation wedged in somewere)
(First, the wisecracks)
1 – Being able to have a coffee before brachos, and a l’chaim after olainu
2 – Being able to skip tachnun more days that my litvish friends
3 – Being able to find a minyan for mincha, when the litvaks are getting ready for bed
Ok, now serious:
The biggest benefit is being part of a team, with a team leader. Its also very reassuring to know there is a support network in place to lend a hand if you’re in a pinch.
And the potato kugel tastes better when you wear a gartel, and have langeh payis 🙂
I’m not young, and I’m one of the biggest advocates for working on a tough situation.
The husband in this case refuses to cooperate. Even so, my vote is to give him the choice to work on himself, or at least try.
10 years is a long time to be tolerant. And the kids are seeing this neglect, so that is only poisoning them to the bargain. If he does not want to be an active partner, its his doing, not ours, not hers.
It should also be noted, that his “joblessness” is 10 years, which might mean the first 5 years of marraige went unemployed as well, where he did little to help out. So in all likelyhood, we are dealing with someone in the 35-40 year old range.
If he has not taken his responsibilites seriously till now, its doubtfull he will turn a new leaf at this age.
Proffesional help will delay the process, and cost $$$.
If the family daas torah says to bail, (or wait 6 months to see if there is improvement) I’d take that at face value.
Sad story, but not one that needs to keep being sad.
Budget?
How many days can you take off?
Is minyan an issue?
Can you stay over Shabbos, or does it need to be mid-week?
Age?
Physical ability?
Location? (unless you are open to travel)
I’ll re-listen to the shiur, to see what the text of the letter said. I think it was just asking for a commitment with a definitive deadline.
Plus, I missed the steer story. Sounds like a doozy.
” post wedding jitters 😉 ”
Funny!
Don’t worry about her ruining your rep. She (not the playgroup morah, not the slumlord) will not be a source for shidduchim anyways.
Call the health dept and it will shut down. Keep in mind, she is invading YOUR HOME, and impacting YOUR WELL BEING.
You owe them nothing.
I would think a fair price for a personal trainer to charge is $40 per hour. Figure on a 2 hour session, 3 clients a day, 4 days a week.
Groups are more efficent, but the money is in catering to the rich and beautiful (or those who have the $ and want to convince themselves they are beautiful).
Marketing is crucial. Don’t focus on health. Keep the emphasis on looks and energy. Those are words that get peoples attention.
If its practical, get them to meet you in a park, so they can see what goal they are aiming for. Nothing motivates a person like the competetion!
“(This is why a guy can’t listen to these things)”
True. Because had boyfriend listened to the shiur, he would have realized its a bluff, signed, and went on with his shennanigans.
C’mon, GAW, really. Why do you say this was not something we could learn from. I thought it put the concept of commitment in a very easy to understand idea.
What did you see wrong?
Very successful, and lots of fun. If you are the athletic type, you can write your own ticket. But nothing part time will net you tons of $$$. Like any service, factoring in travel between clients, a conservative estimate of hours you can expect to clock (and make a decent ammt of money) is somewhere between 50-60 per week.
Tell people (including yourself) that you eloped six months ago, and the upcoming affair is just so you can get the presents
” he’s so devoted, compassioante, sincere and caring that he’ll wait however long until i’m ready”
This, I would be very wary of. At some point, a decision will need to be made. Avoiding it is almost as bad as making one in haste.
Based on what you’ve said, you are both level headed, independent, confident people. Now is the time to put those traits to the most important test of all.
So what I’m hearing is, its a total go. But for some reason, you still feel the need to wait, just to be 100% sure.
My take? You ARE 100% sure (as well you should be) but cannot believe its gone this smooth, so you suspect there is “something you are overlooking”.
That’s the voice inside your head that says, “I don’t deserve this” and “its too good to be true”.
Utter nonsense! You do deserve it, and its good and its true.
Still, if you insist on waiting, do this: When he asks, tell him give me 5 minutes to think it over, and I’ll decide.
Hopefully, the next post you make is the news we are all expecting 🙂
” now i really have nothing to look forward to! ”
Ah, you singles.
Wait, just wait. And then get back to us after the 5th anniversary, the 10th, and the 25th and let us know if you still stand by that statement.
Ditto to maskingtape.
“I thought you were past that stage”
As much as us older folks love making it sound like we know all there is to know, there is always someone who can teach you something. Even if that something is just a new way of understanding a concept you already know.
When it comes to man-woman relationships, us old folks can use a tune-up, just like the new editions (sometimes, more so)
“What purpose does this serve??? “
The same purpose the CR as a whole serves. Some of it is serious, most of it is fun and games.
Not to worry though,Av / Elul / selicos / Rosh H/ YK is almost here, so you’ll have all the “tachlis” you want (and so desparately crave)
Even if it can stay platonic (which it can’t, trust me), if he is not marraige minded,she is just wasting valuable time. Not to mention, setting herself up for a huge emotional disapointment.
If he is not interested in taking the relationship seroiusly, let her move on to someone who is.
I listened to the magic touch shiur yesterday. Wow, does R’ Wallerstein pack a wallop. I loved the way he nailed the boyfriend by asking him to sign a document (which boyfriend refused to do), thus proving that pre marraige, there is no love. There is only taking advantage. Chuppah / kedushin is not just a ceremony. Its a commitment.
I always knew the importance of being shomer negieh (and how it applies to post-marraige as well), but the way he put it in perspective was a real eye-opener.
A must listen to shiur, no matter what your background / affiliation / gender.
The only lecture I heard that comes close was from Rabbi E. Buchwald, in his Crash Course in Judaism series (which by the way is also a really good series to listen to, no matter what your background / affiliation is)
Ax, as in “let me ax you a question”
Living in brooklyn, I hear this all the time
OK, let me re-post but this time without the sarcasm.
#1 – Are you early in your dating career? Is he? If so, then 1 week is too fast. If he is a veteran and you are new to the game, (and he really cares about you) he should understand that you need more time to make a decision like this than he does because of the disparity in experience.
#2 – Ages? If you are under 20, (and presumibly, he is 23-24) you deserve a little more time to make a decision.
#3 – Date duration? Have you gone on an all day, afternoon date? Or have the been just 2 hours in a lounge date? If you’ve spent the day with him, and the time flew by, I’d say you have a winner.
On the other hand, if you are both well into your dating careers, or are both well into your 20s, hesitating may burn the bridge between the two of you. Either way, its a gamble, but saying yes puts a ring on your finger, while saying “I need more time” may give you more time than you bargained for.
Don’t think of it as being pushy; think of it as leadership quality
Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Sounds daunting? Welcome to the marraige club!
Be indecisive. Say you feel there is chemistry, but you need more time to make sure about your “feelings”. Nothing is more endearing (and frustrating) and it will prepare him for life with a woman.
(Honestly, the more threads like this I read, the more I appreciate my wife. )
Afraid of getting old? I can’t wait!
Imagine having a day off, every day, and being able to do the things I want to do (like the 11:00 shiur in Shomer Shabbos, bringing my einekel a snack during recess, riding the bus at the discount rate, ect) instead of doing the things I need to do (like work, work, work).
Plus, I’ll be able to wear a hat with a small brim and tie with a 5″ bib and everyone will say, oh he looks so put together)
True, I’ll need to endure going shopping for the day’s worth of food, (each day, because you never know, do you?) but hey, if it makes Mrs. BP happy, who am I to stop her?
Oh, and winters in Fla, so I can see the very latest in shvimkleid fashion 🙂
Nu, is aging so terrible?