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A word to Joseph and his amazing technicolor krumkeit. My rav gave a drasha shabbos and he mentioned that someone, well known, was dealing with a couple of thousand OTD teens. You know what the common thread was between all of them? They didnt have interest in sports or they were stopped from watching it by people like you. There is nothing wrong with children having an outlet. You can shut off the TV during halftime. And if anything else bothers you, well then I suggest you lock yourself up in your house and never come out. There is
nothing more in the streets that there is during a football game, and as the other guy said, the commercials were pretty harmless (and dumb). My 2 cents.@happyboy123: I have just read thru your multiple comments defending smoking. I am sorry to this, but you are a fool. You remind of people who stand near others puffing away with absolutely no consideration that the stink is bothering them. As far as gedolim smoking, that has changed too. As someone old enough to (almost) be your grandfather, I can tell you that many years ago it was fashionable to smoke. Today it is proven that it is dangerous. Have you seen the suffering that people go thru when they get lung cancer? I have and it’s not pretty.
And yet, you have the audacity to say “maybe she can get used to the smell?” Why should she? It gets into everything. It is very sad that roshei yeshivos have not banned smoking. They have no problem banning everything else, so to me, this is a major fault of theirs.
Be smart, quit now. Every girl has a right to say no to a boy who smokes. And every boy has a right to reject a girl who smokes.
Good luck!
@shopping613: Good luck to you too. Hope you find your earner/learner soon. You know what an earner/learner is? Its someone that doesnt learn half a day and doesnt work half a day 🙂 🙂Q: What do you get if you divide the circumference of a jack-o-lantern by its diameter?
A: Pumpkin pisorry but these jokes just don’t add up…..
I have davened in many shuls in my life, and I can tell you in all honesty, that its not always the length of the davening. In some of the more modern shuls that I davened in, the mispalelim are much more respectful during davening and laining. For the past couple of years, I have been davening in a small minyan in someone’s home (out of convenience). This minyan has attracted many chasidish young married men, who seem to think that the minyan is a social club. There are quite a few who come only for the free food and booze.; I can tell you that these guys do not daven a single word. They don’t even fake it. The talking is so out of hand that anyone sitting right near the baal kora, can barely hear. And its not the length, the davening takes no more than 1.5 hours.
It happens when you’re a teenager. Then when hit your 220s, you see how much smarter your parents became in a few short years.
Its a tricky situation. You do want your seat but you don’t want to embarrass anyone either. As someone mentioned, the polite thing to do is to help the person find another seat. I, however, had an interesting situation many years ago. I was part of a somewhat new minyan which started Shachris on Shabbos at 9AM. I was generally In shul somewhere between 9 and 915. One Shabbos morning, I came in at my usual time and a nice newly married young man, who had just moved into the neighborhood, was sitting in my seat. I said nothing and sat somewhere else. After Shmone esrei, I walked over to him and mentioned to him that it was my mokom kevua. He offered to move, but I said it was fine, just stay for today.
The following Shabbos, I walked in, and lo and behold, this same young man was sitting in my seat again. So, what would you guys do in that case? I was extremely miffed, and I told him very firmly to never take my seat again. I felt it was a tremendous chutzpah of him to do it again.Sorry DY, but you just don’t get it. Saying other communities have better or worse divorce rates doesn’t have anything to do with what I said. In the interest of not making machlokes a week before rosh hashana, I’ll bow out of the conversation now.
to DY: and what, exactly, is my agenda? I am speaking about the community of which I am part of. And, sadly, every other day, I hear of another couple splitting up. It doesn’t matter if they are yeshivish or not. But I do believe that there is a definite lack of maturity in the young couples today, especially the boys. As someone else mentioned, which I left out, is that they are also very spoiled, and expect everything to be handed to them.
Folks, I think we need to concentrate on the bigger picture here. Do we really care about the statitics of the secular world? They have totally different lives than us. The important issue here is that the divorce rate among young frum couples is rising at an alarming rate. In many case, its within the first couple of years, where children are already involved. As we all know, its the children that suffer the most, being bounced around from mom and dad.
Do we know the reasons? Probably not. Jakob, you blame it all on facebook. Its not facebook alone. There are other reasons too. For example, immaturity. As an older person and a child of survivors (A”H), I can tell you that 20 year old guys were much more mature in that generation. Yes, most of us went to college, where we developed social skills. Tons of us met our spouses in colleges and singles’ weekends. Also, shidduchim are mostly based on silly resumes. Do you really think whatever is on the resume is true? Will anyone use a reference that will not say the best things? Face it, not every single guy is the best boy in BMG. How many girls have gotten married to a kollel guy only to find out very quickly that he has zero interest in learning?
Way too much is expected from the young women, while the husbands just want to keep ‘hanging’ with their friends. Marriage is too big a step to take when you make a decision based on a piece of paper.Joseph sounds like a real male chauvinist. I, too, have been married quite a long time BH. If my daughter would be set up with a guy with Joseph’s attitude, I’d nix it in a millisecond. Any girl you date just may be the one you choose to be your wife and mother of your children. As such, she deserves respect and consideration. We have all had dates where we knew immediately that it wasn’t a good match, but yet, you took the girl out and behaved like a gentleman. If you don’t, the word will get around. And Guys, contrary to what you think about yourself, or what your mommy or rebbie told you, you are not G-d’s gift to humanity.
The girl takes the time to look presentable, you should too. I don’t care if you wear a hat or white shirt, but dress mentchlich. If you don’t have a beard, shave for the date.I find nothing at all shocking about this. For far too long, our yeshiva system has played with the lives of our children, whether it be for money, smarts, attire, etc. Countless young people have had their lives destroyed by the selfish roshei yeshivos and administrators. Cant afford tuition? Out you go. Cant keep up with 20 blatt gemara a week, out you go. you wore a blue shirt? out you go. Smartphone? oh boy! and so on. Far too many suicides among “inzere”. While the home environment may not help sometimes, the burden lies mostly on the elitist attitude of the yeshivas. And regarding the education, would it kill them to teach something besides gemara? How about navi? how about chumash? how about hilchos Shabbos so that these young men know something when they get married? Secular education? forget that. Better to collect welfare and Medicaid. Hows that working out nowadays in Lakewood?
” It was now announced that the letter was falsified”
Well, its a good thing Joseph didn’t donate any money there. Regardless, its really been entertaining reading the exchange between zahavasdad and joseph (One intelligent person and the other with his head so deep in the sand, that hes probably looking at China). Joseph, regarding your preaching about gedolim: While I respect anyone’s knowledge of Torah, it does not make one a LEADER. Leadership requires other skills. Also, most of us have rabbonim that we truly respect and admire and they may have different opinions than those you mention. As an adult, I get to choose who I want to listen to and if I don’t follow a particular rav, its not because I don’t respect with him; it because I may not agree with him.I was just reading an article on foxnews.com written by Marc Thiessen.
He describes how the Palestinians really do not want peace (duh!) However, this sentence hit home because it shows that Satmar is EXACTLY like the Palestinians. And I quote:
<b>Palestinian leaders fill their people with hatred for Israel every single day</b>
So tell me KJ Chusid and the rest of you, how are you different? All one needs to be is replace the word Palestinian with Satmar and the same holds true.actually, Lakewood is another planet. In a galaxy many light years away.
Joseph, I never said jeans. I only said colored shirts. Go find pictures of gedolim from the 50s and 60s and you will see for yourself.
To all those who responded to me: Who decided what is the appropriate uniform for jewish people? If you say its white shirt, black hat, etc, well, there are countless frum jews who do not conform to that. Does that not make them just as good a jew as you? Secondly, there is no halacha that one must wear a hat all the time. Who decided that this defines a “frum” jew? Going back to the 70s and before, all the heimishe yidden who came out of the war – wore kangol caps during the week. They did not wear Borsalinos. If you see pictures of certain Rabbonim from that era, they **GASP** wore colored shirts (even though the wonderful Art Scroll people decided to photoshop the pics).
My point is that no-one has a right to say that if you don’t wear this garb, then you are not part of the torah community. I guarantee you there are quite a few bigger talmidei chachomim that don’t wear the attire than those that do. Basically, it’s LIVE AND LET LIVE. And please, don’t look down at those who don’t dress like you; I’m sure you have faults too.Having grown up in a previous era, I do not wear white shirts during the week, nor do I wear a hat.
Besides for cotton pants, I also wear jeans and polo shirts. I am just as frum as all those who conform to this.
And you know what the best part is?? I don’t care what people say. There is no halacha that says one must
wear a white dress shirt all the time, nor black pants, nor a hat. You want to wear a hat for davening, that’s fine;
but to me, when I walk into the supermarket or walmart and see people marching around in hats, I just don’t get it. Especially when its hot outside.Modern Yeshivish means someone that has a solid yeshiva education, is frum, but doesn’t bother with the white shirt/black hat 24/7. I.e. he wears polo shirts, perhaps is in college, etc. Yes, there are many young men like this.
Hmm, LU says “However, there are cases in which both of these are seriously problematic.”, etc
1. Why is it problematic is a boy and girl meet on their own? The majority of the previous generatio did just that – at college, homowack, grossingers, sky rink, etc.
If the parents are OK with it, why would you need to launder it thru a shadchan? Because the neighbors will talk? WHO CARES what the yentas say?
2. You said its problematic to go out with an OTD boy. He is not OTD anymore, he made a comeback. Give him some credit. If you always consider him to be OTD, it will just push him away again.
Chag Kasher Ve’Sameach.iacisrmma, OOPS. my apologies.
“In this case I agree with BoysWork.”
Thank you, Meno. I would like to add some additional advice. When my son was looking for a shidduch, the last people I would call are the references on the resume. Nobody will post a reference that will say something negative. Thankfully, he met his zivug on his own. The ribbono shel olam was the shadchan. I don’t understand this meshigas that if a guy and girl meet on their own, you need to kasher it by getting a shadchan to launder it. Some practices are just too stupid for words. And most important, look for middos above and beyond everything else. Sadly, this is very lacking in todays generation.I’m sorry to say this, but you sound a bit hypocritical. Why is he good enough for a friend of yours but not for you? You might just be missing out on a great guy. People make mistakes and learn from them. Besides, a guy that went of the derech a bit may very well be much more mature than a regular yeshiva guy. After all, he has seen the other side too. This is just my 2 cents, but I think that MOST yeshiva guys getting married at such a young age are way too immature and totally unprepared for marriage.
a couple of years ago, I introduced a young lady to exactly the same kind of boy.
they are happily married with a beautiful little boy. Need I say more?This response is for Feivel (and his ilk).
I have been wearing various colors of denim jeans for most of my life, which based on your title – Talmid – means that Ive been working longer than you are on this earth. I honestly don’t care about your personal opinion about jeans, and as does gavra, I spit on your royal blood. I challenge you to bring me the following halachic sources:
1. proof that jeans are not permitted.
2. proof that one may only wear white shirts and black pants at all times (as Im sure you do). While You’re at it, bring me proof why one must wear a hat at all times (I understand davening, bentching, etc).
Trust me, I went to yeshiva just like you, i keep shabbos and kashrus just like you. the major difference is that I dont possess your unbelievable arrogance. You should be aware that back before you graced the world with your presence, most people wore colored shirts during the week, even rabbonim.
You may be a tremendous talmid chochom, but remember, derech eretz kadma letorah. Learn some modesty.
It can be done. I too have an AT&T phone in contract (galaxy). I found a service on ebay, and it worked perfectly. As for israel, I highly recommend
Golan sim cards. You get unlimited text and calls, and its very cheap.
You left out choice ‘E’ – insane
I agree with the guy who said Jwed or even singles weekends/functions.
I met my wife more than 30 years ago on a july 4th weekend at one of the hotels in the mountains. Many many more couples met that way.
Joseph, if your posek tells you that you Must get drunk, then it means that he is drunk. end of story. Does he take into account that you can chas vesholom end up in the hospital? find a new rav; this one is already at ‘ad dlo yada”
What happens if someone is interested in the 2nd best guy in Lakewood?? Oh drat, I forgot, there is no such person…..
Golem, thats because they can’t read. what were you thinking?
TTJ – you know, it really is not disgraceful if they are looking for (GASP) working boys….
opposite of me, I once went to a shul on rosh hashana where there was no singing. I hated it. I find the singing on rosh hashana and yom kippur to be an important part of the davening. to each his own.
So, how old are elisheva chedva and chaya leah and what kind of young men are they looking for? learning, working, a bit of both, ones with a pulse??
“kollel isnt for everyone but it is defiantly number and if a girl cant handle that. she is a lower level.”
Well folks, the above statement just about says it all. Its not that kollel boys are elite, they are just trained to be snobs. Nothing but ga’aveh. A statement like the above shows a total lack of middos, derech eretz, etc. Shame on you.
“Change the system or adapt to it. But your current view is only going to hurt you.”
Um. no. it will not hurt me. You know why? Because I don’t care what anyone thinks. I don’t care that people think BMG guys are elite or first class because I know there are many there who are about as lazy and low class as one can get. Zero middos. And as someone else said “Derech Eretz Kadma LeTorah”. Being a mentch is much more important for a girl to look for than a guy who knows another blatt gemara or two.
Squeak, the problem lies right in your comment. When you call a kollel boy elite and a working boy non-elite. I can show you plenty of working young men who accomplish more by being kovea itim than many, many boys sitting in kollel. Sitting in kollel
DOES NOT MAKE ONE ELITE!!How about: Restore high school education to where it was back in the 60s thru 80s in yeshivas like Torah Vodaath – where there were 4 or 5 classes every year. Encourage the boys to get a degree – Plenty of bright boys came out of Touro. Stop the nonsense where EVERY boy must go to kollel. We all know that there are way too many there that dont belong there.
Second: This is for parents – if you want your daughters to marry working boys, tell them this as they are growing up. Don’t send them to seminaries that will brainwash them and tell them “If you marry a kollel boy, u will go to gan eden”. It’s all a crock. Just look how the divorce rate is rising among the yeshivish crowd. And please don’t compare it the goyim – nobody cares about their divorce rate. If you know your son or daughter is not cut out for kollel life, then don’t give in. No matter what the teachers in seminary say.
As the father of a working boy (who got married not too long ago), I can tell you that I have seen how shadchanim treat working boys. You would think they were lepers – “Your son works??” Looks like they swallowed a lemon when they said that. Even if that shadchan called back, I would not deal with him/her. How dare they treat him like a second class citizen? Boruch Hashem, he is happily married to a wonderful young lady who comes from a family that has no problems with a young man who is “GASP”!!! working.
Adam, I personally know of a couple of wonderful girls in monsey for you. Not sure how you can contact me, perhaps the moderators can help.
Also, a message to squeak – working guys need to set their sights lower? Seriously?? I can show you plenty of working guys who learn a lot more every day, than quite a few who are warming the benches at BMG. It was a disgusting comment.
Here are a couple of good ones I’ve overheard;
1) Chasidish woman looking for a ride: “Are you with car?”
2) Boro Park woman to contractor: “Put me in a toilet on de second floor”