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“A supernatural being of course could have done that. But there is nothing within our mesorah that indicates that is what happened.”
based on belief and observation…do you have any other alternatives?
Chromium OS is awful…get linux or windows starter. it looks cool when you first get it, but then you start to miss the tools on a normal computer.
its not a matter of shallow…how are you supposed to marry a woman you arent attracted to? i mean…just to marry someone because you feel bad about rejecting them doesnt seem very advisable. besides…what will probably happen if you is that you will spend your time staring at other women rather than your own wife.
computer repair and graphic design
the big bang is an absolute scientific fact..IF and ONLY IF you do not grant god a variable. the age attributed to the universe is such because of scientists calculations of the shifting of the cosmos. they reached the conclusion that based on that shift the earth must have originated from a “big bang” (which was not the term originally used, it was actually a term coined to discredit the theory) and they calculated the distance traveled and the time it must have taken.
now ill grant that it seems to be the most rational and sensible theory in existence, UNLESS you grant a supernatural being as a possible variable. this supernatural being could have created the cosmos as they were and set them to shift thus skewing those calculations. the speed of the shifts set forward by this supernatural being would in fact mislead one to believe that the universe was older than it actually is, thus leading to the more rational theory of the big bang.
but here is the flaw in the argument, and where you have to decide where you stand. if it’s rational to the core you’re looking for then then youre at odds with faith. faith is not and cannot be rational. no matter how much logic you use to explain religion there comes a point where you hit a brick wall. that brick wall being blind faith. so yes, to accept an alternate, logical explanation of the origins of teh world you do in fact have to be a bit irrational in its foundation. but that is the question…do you in fact believe?
PS: for the sake of disambiguation…i am not talking about deism here, only theism. more specifically judaism as practiced by the orthodox. i dont need anyone here taking what i said out of context.
erasmus darwin perhaps, not charles darwin…
its not very irrational once you grant god as a variable. science works based on a specific set of variables. mainstream science does not accept god as a variable. we do. once you grant god it makes perfect sense. apparently you don’t grant god…
im sorry…what is the point of this thread?
its because as you said…teh man can get a heter meah rabbonim the woman cannot
by the way…about how the employee would know about the wig…there was a receipt which presumably has a receipt number which presumably is kept on record.
no it was put on in the 1950’s in an atttempt to unify the nation someohow…
this is teh same shtuss as people who believe that after moshiach comes we will go back to teh stone ages, technologically speaking. WHY?! why must a computer be labeled good or bad, why must it be labeled acceptable or unacceptable, why must it be black or white…? perhaps computers are neutral and its up to us to do what we will with them?! for heavens sake…use your brains people!
a popular argument is as follows:
“but look at theshmuz.com look at torahanytime.com look at theyeshivaworld.com so much good can come from it, it must be good.”
“but look at XXXXXXXXXX.com and YYYYYYYYYYYY.com and ZZZZZZZZZZ.com see what kind of tumah comes from there, computers must be bad”
that argument answers its own question, its neither! its a Schroedinger’s cat if you will. you cannot know which it is until you use it, and when you do use it its status is decided by you. computers, and technology as a whole is not good OR evil, it is simply what we make of it.
so right
maybe there arent any single speakers because they all feel teh same way and no one steps forward. you could be creating your own reality…
thta may just be because she had been told that by a man who didnt want to shake her hand…
Conservative “Judaism”
(sorry…it’s the first thing that comes to mind…)
im sorry…whats the chidush?
id comment on this thread…but im one of the people youre complaining about…
just tell them that for religious reasons you cant shake a woman’s hand. we arent the only religion with such rules, and even if we were there is no reason to be ashamed of it. dont lie about germs or your wife, be proud of who you are and tell them that judaism does not permit it. politely of course…but firmly.
i go to starbucks all the time, i buy coffee (black), and i sit there for hours. when i see a jew in a starbucks i assume he’s oing the same thing as i am. it’s a coffee shop, not a burger joint. they sell coffee. their primary focus is coffee. the coffee is kosher. are you all beginning to see my point?
frumladywonderfulperson: i’m not saying it should run your life, enjoying luxury is not running your life. obsession with gashmiyus is running your life. there’s a difference, a difference none of you seem to understand
in that situation he has a point, but in general i think its just jealousy that leads to this type of thread. i was discussing this thread with my boss and he told me that he agrees with the OP because luxury just isnt the yiddishe veg. then he dropped that he would buy a lexus if he could afford it. what’s good for the goos in this case is apparently not good for the gander. without saying it he basically admitted that he would be jealous of a lexus, but hed be fine if he had one for himself.
haifagirl is a nice name…although some people object to calling me “bombmaniac” 😛
no, you see there i would object, but that was not the contention of the OP. the OP was bashing AL:L displays of luxury. i concede that there are instances of gaivah among the wealthy, but to generalize is disgusting.
if someone lives in a wealthy neighbourhood and builds a huge house, kol hakavod. i wish them well, may them and their family live ad meah vesrim with bracha and hatzlacha. there is a distinct difference between living in luxury and flaunting, it’s sad that you can’t see the difference.
oh i know it’s a luxury, but i don’t really see a problem with it.
i personally dont care what people do with their money, what i do dislike people talking about another’s money. its so tasteless and this whole thread is full of that. seriously people, dont you have anything better to do with your time than worry about what people do with their possessions?
“A car is a need, getting a brand new BMW 760li fully loaded is an indulgence.”
it has it’s benefits. its very comfortable it drives well, it has great fuel economy, teh nav is convenient, and its a very safe car. next example…?
“The size of the apartment and how lavishly it is decorated, thats where indulgence comes into play.”
a man’s home is his castle, who wants to live in a hovel? besides as long as he isnt parading the world through his living room, who cares?
the point isnt whether an apartment is appropriate or not, the is that jealousy gets us nowhere. so how about focusing on yourselves and not others.
as always your input is highly valued by the rest of us.
“Clearly bombmaniac was born with a silver spoon in his mouth.”
assuming you’re right, does that make any difference to you?
“Ramateshkolian is correct, but should have used different phraseology.
People who claim to be ovdei hashem but habitually emphasize materialism in their lives are hypocrites.”
again, what makes you think that everyone with a designer label is overemphasizing materialism?
so youre all saying that because someone who can’t afford to buy designer labels might get offended…no one should ever have them regardless of their reasons for purchasing them. i see. makes perfect sense. your contention is that people are focusing too much on their labels as opposed to what they really are, but how can you possibly know that?
so now your mission in life is to make every single person with a designer label aware of his arrogance and rectify the problem by forcing him to shop at wal-mart. better, you want then to WANT to shop at wal-mart. you would have everyone shop at the same stores so that everyone should appear to be at the same financial and social status lest someone who is less fortunate be offended. that’s ridiculous. it’s not a matter of tznius at all. you assume that people do it to flaunt, but your accusations are ridiculous. true there are people who do it to flaunt, but your beef should be with them not with people who wear designers in general.
now some of you may be wondering why i’m fighting so passionately about this. it’s because i am sick and tired of threads like these were people show their colors so openly. why is it impossible to be happy with what you have? there are people who have money and there are people who don’t. the people who have more DO NOT CARE about how much money the less fortunate have, the less fortunate SHOULD NOT CARE WHAT THE WEALTHY HAVE! is a person their wallet? is a human being defined by how beautiful or run down his house is?
i can guarantee you that if designers took their labels off their clothing you people would still be complaining athat people are buying expensive clothing. so don’t make this a tznius issue, please. it really isnt. call a spade a spade.
you should know though, that money does not buy happiness. many wealthy people have miserable lives, family problems, illnesses in the family, so much tzaros…many poor people have wonderful lives, happiness, shalom bayis, simchas hachaim…noney does not buy you happiness. so please…stop focusing on what other people do or do not have, and just work on your own lives. make your life, no matter how much money you do or don’t have, the best life it can be.
just an example, i have a friend who has been trying to write a novel for years. each time he gets close he scraps it and starts again. one time i asked him why he chucks it each time, he answered “because tolkien would never have wrote like this”. this man will NEVER write a novel in his life. why? because instead of focusing on himself, and where he needs improvement, he’s focusing on an unattainable goal which is holding him back. the same could be said of this thread. stop focusing on the unattainable, worry about yourself. work with what you have. make the best life for yourself that you possibly can, don’t waste it worrying about what other people have that you can’t.
for the record, i don’t care how you dress. you made an issue out of this, not me.
WIY why are you so concerned with the actions of those younger than you? do you really feel so intimidated by them that you speak with such vitriol about their tastes in clothing? competitiveness is common among young people; i hardly see how their actions qualify as a valid springboard for your broad accusations against all those who wear designer clothing.
Concerning the quality of a $300 shirt as opposed to an $80 dollar shirt, apparently you have no eye for quality. that wasn’t very nice of me, was it. stooping to your level is so very base, isn’t it.
“On the other hand, there are enough people who act this way that makes it a problem.”
please quit while you arent so far behind.
“Yes, I agree that these people have class. I don’t care if you spend crazy amounts of money on clothes, just don’t flaunt it by needing to show the label.”
of course you care or you would never have mentioned it.
“The most expensive brand names actually do not have labels or symbols. This is because they are intended for the classy members of society who are “fortunate” enough to be able to afford them.”
then you shouldn’t feel any animosity toward those who DO have labels, after all, they are too poor to afford the good stuff.
But I never pay a lot of money for what I wear. If I can buy a sweater in Target for $30, or I could find one on sale in Macy’s or Lord and Taylor for $35, then yeah- I’m gonna go for the brand name. Show me one person who wouldn’t.
people who dont have to worry about their finances. however that does not make them bad people or in fact flawed in any way. some people just like the finer things in life, and would purchase with or without the audience that you so dutifully provide.
a status symbol is indeed put on clothing to indicate one’s status as being able to afford better quality products, however just because the clothing designer was ill intentioned does not mean that the consumer is. please understand the difference.
Answer me this, WIY, why are the names of donors called out during appeals in shul?
by the way just to clarify, when it comes to clothing (and you can trust me on this) you do indeed get what you pay for. a 40 dollar shirt is better than a 20, a 60 better than a 40, an 80 better than a 60, a 120 better than an 80 and so on. it really is true. so why if you have the means would you not want the quality? why if you can afford it should you walk around in a 60 dollar shirt of you can afford an 80 which is more comfortable and looks nicer? other than the possible offence it may cause to you of course…what standard would you set?
and all this garbage about labels…please. you would still have your contention without the labels. expensive clothing is easily discernible from cheap clothing. face it, you have character flaws, youre not satisfied with what you have and therefore you accuse teh wealth of “flaunting” because that in some wierd way makes you feel better about yourself. but once again, that is not their fault, it’s yours. what others have is none of your concern, and you cant possibly know why they dress teh way they do unless you are actually the person you are judging. so please…stop already…its so…lower class.
Then why are you stereotyping? You make it sound as if all wealthy people are flaunting their riches in the faces of the poor hardworking downtrodden “kollel class”. Stop it! A designer label does not a snob make, and quit implying that it does! Your generalizations are disgusting and belie an undercurrent of jealousy. Your issue is not with the “wealthy”, your issue is with those among the wealthy who abuse their gift. Please do not misrepresent your true contentions.
The issue however remains not one of modesty, but of character. It is in very poor taste (pardon the pun) for one to overindulge in ostentation, to that I concede. However, I take great offence at your implication that all wealthy people are guilty of such flaws. now that we have reached a resolution on this issue, can this thread please be locked lest we endure more of the same?
wonderful, WIY, i love how you made the leap from “wealthy” to “broke” to “crooks” all in teh span of a few sentences. first of all i am calling for people to live within their means, so you are simply making my point for me. secondly it is perfectly understandable why someone who is used to wealth would try and maintain the illusion, it’s not out of some sense of elitism, it’s for their own benefit. regardless of whether people should or should not, people will talk about them and tell all kinds of potentially harmful lashon hara. that sound crazy? not really, i’ll quote your words: “Its a big Yetzer Hara to have “status” because we made being rich into such a big “zach” in our communities that people will do anything to maintain that status even if it means stealing from your best friends, brothers, uncles, Rabbis….you name it.”
such motzi shem rah, i’m disappointed! an ehrliche middle class gentleman such as yourself should know better…
a shtarke chofetz chaim bochur 😀
oh, i see, so they’re supposed to walk around in rags, drive jalopies, and live in trailers. i see. there is a difference between buying expensive clothes and flaunting and if you can’t tell teh difference its because you dont wnat to, not because you are incapable. it IS a gift from hashem and they DO have responsibilities. who do you think it is every yeshiva turns to when they can’t pay the mortgage? who do you think it is that has lines around teh block of people from all over the world asking them for tzedakah? who do you think it is that pays for the hundreds of kollelim that every lakewood bochurs sits in for the rest of his life?
that’s right. the wealthy. as long as they keep their end of the “bargain” so to speak, why not let them dress in higher quality clothes? why not let them drive fancy cars? why not let them live in a beautiful house? you cant have your cake and eat it too.
its teh same mishegass with the weddings. rebbes having to make kol korehs telling people not to buy diamonds for their wives, using one man bands and limiting the cost of teh hall…its beause people get jealous and want what they cant have, get over it! be happy with what you have! quit worrying about what the wealthy do!
why must everyone be the same? should there be, according to you, a universal standard which must not be violated by anyone no matter of monetary status? please. that’s ridiculous and you know it. “ezehu ashir hasomeach b’chelko” learn it. live it.
ive posted about this before and i will post about it again. this is not a matter of tznius, this is not a matter of frumkeit, this is not a matter of one jew feeling genuine concern for the spiritual wellbeing of another, this is about jealousy. plain and simple. and you want to know what i think? GET OVER IT!!! if you can’t afford designer labels, DON’T BUY THEM! baruch hashem there are people in our communities who have been blessed by hashem with wealth, and they can do with that wealth what they want, (within the boundaries of halacha obviously) and you have no say in that.
for some reason people always feel a need to pick on the wealthy, to criticize them for the clothes they wear, the cars they drive, the houses they build, and the neighbourhoods they live in. the united states government takes every opportunity it can to tax teh wealthy because the less fortunate (monetarily speaking) are not happy with what they have, and cannot begrudge the wealthy their gifts. GET OVER IT! this issue is not one of tznius. is there designer clothing that should never be worn in public? yes. is there designer clothing that is perfectly acceptable save for the status symbol on the upper left side of the pocket? yes. so teh issue is not about status, or wealth, its about people not being someach b’chelkam. that’s your problem, not the wealthy’s.
as a side note…in order of quality, least to greatest:
boro park – flatbush – manhattan
i cook a lot 😀 im a big guy, i like eating, and to keep up my habit, i gotta cook it 😀
theyre wrong, and if you know them well enough to give them mussar in a way that they will accept it you should. if they dont want to hear teh rzv, they should walk out, thats a one time affront to the kavod of teh rav and teh kavod of teh torah.
its more of a business instinct…some people are better at it than others. some things just can not be taught in school.
not to mention exacerbation of asthma symptoms…
i know some people here…ive been “outed” as it were…everyone i know knows my username is always bombmaniac so when they see it they know it’s me, i have nothing to hide. what i post here is what i absolutely believe (including the letzanus :D)and i will defend it in real life as well as online.
people smoke because they are too weak to quit. don’t deny it…saying it’s hard and that i wouldn’t understand is just reinforcing what i said. smokers are too weak to quit.
why do they start? its a combination of youthful stupidity, influence, peer pressure, and a desire to conform to a certain group. all very stupid reasons when analyzed properly.