hanib

stickynote – true; if the kid isn’t good-looking, then they should have very good middos. but since it’s hard to have good middos, next best thing is to marry someone with money. then at least can buy very cute clothes, and as they say, “clothes make the man.”

again, the kid with the best clothes, latest toys, and nicest pencil case often can be quite popular and well liked by the teachers. and, most importantly, money talks – and can get kid into best yeshivos, seminaries, etc.

so you’re right, looks aren’t everything.

shlishi: 😉

i think popa has a multiple personality disorder.

some of the personalities are: Mod 80, eclipse, chayav, Reb. David – any psychologists out there in the cr?

looking2grow: i think that if person seems like an amazing, growing person, can try her. (definitely does not have to be a rebbetzin). i think you should trust your instincts. if someone says something that you don’t feel will work, don’t do it. look for someone that you truly feel can understand you and know how to give advice. but as you get closer to the person, see if person has someone who they ask advice. the point of “aseh lecha rav” is that you are getting da’as torah from someone else who got da’as torah from someone else, going all the way back to moshe rabeinu, and it’s more of a straight line thinking, not messed up by our environment and psychology, like most of our thinking is.

according to some poskim, but if you’re makil about drinking coffee in starbucks, probably can be makil about wearing shells. but i don’t think you can quote rav moshe on this one.

of course one should be makpid on looks, but not for the reasons you all and others give. the guy will anyways in a few years maybe gain weight, hair get gray or lose his hair. girl, im yirtza hashem, will have children and hard to look same as did when marry after several children. they’ll both get wrinkled, etc. and we all know that love based just on looks doesn’t last.

BUT, if you marry a good looking spouse, your children have more of a chance to be good-looking. and as darwin pointed out, cute children have much more chance of surviving till adulthood than do ugly kids.

After spilling out all the shampoo onto the bathroom floor, throwing his mother’s cellphone into the toilet, smashing all the eggs in their house with their little fingers, or worst of all eating up all the chocolate hidden in the house, – a kid who is simply adorable has a much greater chance of surviving. oh, and don’t forget those kids who wake up their parents during the night – an adorable smile given at just the right time helps keep everyone’s sanity.

and, we all know that teachers favor cute kids. and since how well you do in schools impacts what seminary, yeshiva, college one gets accepted into, and thus who they are likely to marry, i would say that boys and girls should be extremely makpid on looks!!!!!!

leave it out – maybe “the borrowers” will need that one too.

i think i could figure myself out – too predictable. also, a number of others.

would be interesting to write info. down and as people reveal more to write it; but don’t have time for such logic problems. 😉

zeeskite, i’m with you. have too much to do before shabbos. have a good shabbos everyone!

thanks so much for the subtitle – i love it! 🙂

yes to pesach cleaning – i started a few weeks ago – have to do little at time, so it takes a while, and i do spring cleaning

i’m not into this settling business; unless you mean something different than i think you mean.

1. marriage is hard enough as it is – to marry someone of whom you feel that you settled does not make the prospect of a happy marriage look promising.

2. people really do marry what they need – so if a person truly knows who they are and their list is truly in accordance with what they need, people tend to marry more or less what’s on their list.

3. in terms of wants, some people get more of and some less of what they want.

so, i’ve seen people always got their needs, though picture might be a little different. (ex. the height, his/her background – if it wasn’t a need, etc.)

so, it comes down to same thing again and again. i believe (from my experience) that:

a) people need to know themselves

b) they need to identify the things that they (not their parents, friends, teachers) really need and their wants

c) be able to express in words to everyone in the world what their needs are

d) if after a legitimate amount of time doing maximum hishtadlus and tefillah, to be more flexible in the wants section and only look at needs

and nobody could know for someone else what is a need and what is a want – even things like looks and/or money could be a need. (i don’t recommend it), but must be very honest with yourself.

first, ask few simpler questions after shiur – see if like how they answer you and see if like their hashkafa and way talk during shiur, if can be good match for you. then pick one. then, depending on you or your circumstances, can say: i have some questions, and was wondering when or if you have any time that i can call you or meet you. or can ask if you can help with kids or cooking for shabbos, etc. (this works well in eretz yisroel, don’t know how well it goes in ny. out of town could definitely work).

i was never the type to do this – but once heard a rav speak, and he said one should do this – so, i said to myself, okay, i’ll do it to your wife – it’s your own fault. other person – should have done it much sooner – never met her, but everyone told me that i’m very similar to her; once finally met her, we clicked.

if in end, you feel it’s not the right person, you didn’t lose out at all. anyways, sometimes different people are experts for different types of questions. one person i get more chinuch banim from. another more haskafic issues.

most rebbetzins who give shiurim would actually love to develop kesher with others. just may not have time. if that’s the case – be creative – how about walk her back to her car or where she lives, etc.

good luck! it’s scary, but soooo important. will make tremendous difference in your life.

hi eclipse!

i gave myself an age limit – if didn’t find what i was looking for by certain age, decided that would have to lower my expectations.

the flinstones,.. the muppet show…. little house on the prairie…facts of life… different strokes…growing pains…

i bet you can figure out how old someone is by the shows and commercials they remember

looking2grow: kol hakavod to you. you’re definitely doing the right thing. tell me, are you looking for someone similar to your brother or different (in hashkafa). it could be that they’re right – that you won’t be attracting certain boys, but it sounds like those are not the type you want to marry. by dressing totally tzniously (and hopefully, still attractively) what you’re doing is saying “yes” and opening yourself up to the type of boy you do want to marry. now, make sure that everyone who can find someone, knows what type of boy you do want. good luck! you’re definitely doing the right thing. it’s very hard to go in a different way from your family, even if it’s only in these areas. it can be very challenging. keep yourself surrounded by like-minded individuals, so you can keep “looking2grow”. i second kapusta’s brocha. 🙂

my 3 year old. so far, always this way. 😉 (hope it stays)

Wow! i’m so impressed with all of you who are making changes.

it’s not so simple for daughter to not listen to mother, especially, when technically can be considered halachichally ok, at least in mother’s mind.

rabbeim always give ba’alei teshuvah advice as to how to approach their parents and deal with situations even when the kids are halachakially in the right. it’s much harder (or at least different) when mother is frum and “thinks” she’s right. have to deal it with chachma and delicately. as oomis said, best is respectfully have heart-to-heart talk. then, in other areas, be extra careful to show tremendous kibbud av v’em, and show that you still respect their opinions and want their advice.

moderators should mix and match what people write to different names, and we have to guess who really said what.

i think i could figure out haifagirl, popa, chayav, maybe yossi and aries.

that’s a really tough question, but i think the question goes even deeper. what if the type of guy you’re looking for is different from what your mother wants for you?

do you have someone (a teacher or something) that can talk to in order to help you figure out who you really are and what truly want. then have a respectful heart-to-heart talk with your mother, and explain (if it’s true) that the type of guy you’re looking for, would davka be looking for someone who’s skirts are longer and maybe would be turned off if skirt didn’t totally cover when getting into a car, etc. it’s not about halacha, but about who you are, and you want that how you dress to be a true representation of who you are so can find your particular bashert soon.

hope this helps. good luck!

SJS: i know; i was just commenting on us – i didn’t take it that you thought it was right or wrong.

i understand how single girls don’t dress so tzniusly – don’t truly understand the effects they have on guys. but how do married women dress provocatively – what in the world are they thinking?

except that i think we get immune to certain styles when we see it again and again, and we actually desensitize ourselves.

this posting reminds me of Rabbi Orlovsky’s lecture on platonic relationships. he once spoke in front of boys and girls, stating how boys cannot have platonic relationships. people started arguing with him, until finally one girl realized, that it was only the girls that were arguing, and asked the boys to say something to defend themselves. boys just looked at each other and smiled sheepishly.

actually mdj -that’s a very good point; and mytake, i forgot, but when i finally understood (to the best of my ability) that point, it really helped me in the realms of tznius.

and now, as a married woman, i have no desire to dress not tzniously for that reason.

SJS – you’re right, but we’re wrong. 🙁

a classmate of mine only wears makeup for her husband.

I’m lucky – my husband does want me to look nice when i go out – problem is, i have a problem always looking put together – shaitel, make-up etc. in the house. my husband doesn’t complain, but still that is who i should be dressing up for.

as far as i know, it’s generally not worn among most yeshivish/chareidi crowd. last i wore it was years ago in my innocent days, coming from out-of-town world, not even knowing that some people don’t – i was on a date. the guy asked me, “why are you wearing nail polish?” i answered something like i don’t know – (i don’t really remember what i answered – probably just smiled uncomfortably). then guy said – girls wear nail polish to attract guys – he quoted some source i don’t remember what – maybe rachav wore it? i don’t know. but that was the first time i ever realized that some women don’t wear it.