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If you’re so obsessed with having a natural birth in a quiet atmosphere, go to an out of city hospital and deliver there with a midwife. The most important thing is to be in a setting where there is sufficient medical help in c”v needed.
Health – not sure why you keep saying the danger is only to the baby. There are plenty emergency scenarios that can go wrong with the mother as well. OBs are there to treat mothers not babies.
Avram – Do you think it is possible to take a minute and think for yourself without quoting statistics or medical journals who are trying to push an agenda? Your logic is so twisted it would be laughable if not so serious a subject.
A. Nobody forces anyone to take pain medication. It is a choice. There might be pressure but ultimately it is the patient’s choice. You don’t get pain medication until you sign some forms.
B. Can you figure out any reason why they might be screening candidates for a planned home birth? Because they know that there is a significant risk with delivering at home so they try to minimize the casualties. I don’t know what your experience with birth is. But I can tell you that anyone that is semi educated or responsible that was in a delivery room knows about the many surprises that come about.
C. Why are we only measuring deaths? Are all other consequences, long term effects, or handicaps not important?
You have an excuse for not being mekayaim the mitzvah of vehigasah bo yomum valeila. And girls have excuses for needing to wear too short skirts? Don’t you see what I’m trying to tell you?
The same way the yetzer harah gets men away from learning torah (their main mitzvah): Too tired, stressed out, other things to take care of…
The same yetzer harah will find and excuse for girls to be oiver on their main mitzva = tznius: don’t tell me what to do, looks better, no one will notice, men shouldn’t look at me…
avhaben: could you explain why you don’t learn torah every second of spare time you have?
Starbucks sponsors blood drives?
There are so many things that can and do go wrong at even the most normal births that it really is not responsible for someone to put themselves or their baby at risk. This can happen to prescreened individuals and candidates for home birth as well.
What do people tell themselves when a baby is lost due to not being in a medical setting at birth. Or, how about when a mother starts hemorraging so severely that best case scenario is that an emergency hysterectomy is done after a wild ambulance ride to the OR effectively destroying the woman’s chances of have more children.
Do they say “Oh well, at least I was comfortable and I had a beautiful birthing experience.”? or, “It was all worth it. No nurse woke me up at 3 am to take my blood pressure.”
The torah says V’nishmartem meod lenafshoseichem. No where does the torah tell us to take our comfort into consideration when you are dealing with sakanos nefashos.
This whole home birth movement is so ridiculous its unbelievable.
Yes. Maternal mortality rates at the hospital are going to be higher than at home because: 1: High risk patients usually don’t opt for planned home birth. 2: Many more people give birth at the hospital so naturally you’d have all types of circumstances and happenings going on in the hospital. and 3: People are not prescreened to find out if they are a candidate for a hospital birth.
If you’re going to quote statistics at least quote the one’s that actually prove something.
I don’t know. All frum BY schools teach that the knees have to be covered. (some say 4″ some say a little less…) But looking around you see scores of High School girls looking perfectly aidel until you see the skirt. Nowadays its only covered to mid knee. If you look at the back you can usually see on top of the knee. Real Shame.
How is this accepted?
nfgo3: “I will happily and enthusiastically pull the lever for the reelection of President Obama”
Oh how I wish you lived in France and elected Obama as president there.
(No problem with working on a French birth certificate 😉
I think this is an immature conversation. Everyone should just do what they feel comfortable doing.
Mazel Tov. Much hatzlocha in the future.
One more thing. I do think its crucial to work in a place that has a pleasant atmosphere and to do stuff you really enjoy.
There really is no need to add to the stress level of raising a family.
more: I don’t know how many children you have or how demanding running your household is – and it really doesn’t make a difference to me.
Point is: If there is enough on your plate with taking care of the kids/running household, etc. why would you consider it as if you’re not working. (Might be a lower salary) I think it’s a much harder job to stay home a whole day with the kids. (more rewarding too.)
If you do have extra time on your hands, I would definitely advocate working. It keeps you feeling fulfilled. More so than shopping a whole day or schmoozing on the phone.
I think that there is room in medicine for both practices. I don’t see why it has to be one over the other.
While I mainly use conventional doctors, there were instances when I was at the end of the rope with a couple of issues and had them resolved with one visit to the chiropractor.
I would never use a chiropractor to heal a strept throat but if my last resort to heal my child’s ears would be to insert tubes, I would definitely try a chiropractor first. One of them aligned and taught me how to drain my child’s ear… I never knew of another ear infection again.
I just can’t stand the way people fork over tons of money month after month to chiropractors just because they’re big believers.
In other words use your brains. If something makes sense do it. It’s got nothing to do with belief or emotions.
Wow. That’s great. I love witnessing reunions.
and just because we are already paying for one thing it doesn’t help to keep paying for another. We cannot let anyone threaten us to have a baby if we don’t pay for such and such. It really is ludicrous.
Health insurance is another topic. Maybe we should start a new thread on this.
Dvorak – you missed the point. I wonder if you were listening to the program, or just read his comments that were taken out of context and put into news columns.
I hate Rush’s program. I find him very bigoted and most of his program is taken up with the word “I”. However, I happened to have been listening then and this whole thing is just so blown over.
He was not putting women down in any way shape or form. He was complaining about having to pay for their social activities and getting nothing back for it. He was talking about personal responsibility. In case you don’t know what that is, it means making choices and being responsible or paying for them yourself.
As a matter of fact one woman called and mentioned that she gets her BC from Walmart for $5 a month. She questioned what the big deal was for someone to fund that themselves instead of putting themselves on other people. He agreed with that. He never made fun of people taking birth control. He hasn’t made any judgemental statements on the what she does with her life. (why would he? He’s just as bad as she is in that respect.)
“And he got esther. Sounds good to me”
His marriage was also great. He didn’t see his wife in over 30 days although they were living in the same palace. He didn’t even know who is wife was. – These are all great segulos for Shalom Bayis 🙂
Maybe its not such a bad idea after all 🙂
Shalom – you are either very naive or terribly misguided.
I try to respond to some parts of your post which made no sense and was all over the place.
1. I don’t think Rush was making the comments he did because of things he felt were morally right or wrong. He’s by far the wrong person to comment on morals. He knows it and doesn’t try to deny it. He’ll stay out of your business and he’d want you to stay out of his.
2. Brissim and the issue at hand are not the same issue. They don’t even come close to comparison. With brissim we exercise our right to freedom of religion. With the issue she is talking about she is exercising her right to liberty and pursuit of happiness. (if that’s what she thinks makes her happy). Nobody is stopping her from doing anything.
3. Nobody wants the government or health insurance companies to pay for brissim. I think that that is a terrible scenario with too many bad implications. (i.e. who is qualified to do procedure, in hospital setting, no wine…)
And I certainly don’t understand why a person in their right mind would want the government or health insurance involved in their private lives. BUT THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO PAY FOR OTHER PEOPLE’S STUPIDITIES. If you really think this won’t come from taxpayer’s money or lead to a rise in health care costs – you’re seriously deluded. You want to live your life the way you want – fine but don’t make me pay for it.
I don’t know why there are so many people who are willing to keep putting on the blinders.
4. No one ever brought Jews or our political stance into this conversation. To the benefit of everyone here, please lets keep it that way.
5. The classic case of being so open minded that the brain falls out.
Once you have government paying for everything and anything. You have government telling you how they’ll pay, only on what terms, to whom they’ll pay and they’ll make a couple of more stuff illegal on the way to save money.
By government not paying for private lifestyles is not by any means a way of controlling it. It is a way of staying out of it. Keeping you in control. It is the people with a chip on their shoulder that constantly need the government recognition to okay what their doing.
6. “I could go on, but as a Jew, I am always half expecting politicians to throw Jews under the bus in order to advance their own power”
That is the only good and true statement there is from your whole post. It is always important to remember that we are in galus.
popa: Your logic is a bit faulty. There are plenty of instances where boy and girl have dated before and then picked back up after a while. In that case the boy would have already met girl.
Besides, Achasveirosh tried something close to this idea thousands of years ago. So you and your friend are pretty archaic 🙂
go back and actually read the previous posts
I agree with you. Aside for his language, I think he was making a pretty valid point.
Why is it that she can go in front of congress and the media circus and discuss all dirty, promiscuous stuff and when someone says the truth about her – calling her what she really is – there suddenly is a war cry about what type of discourse is tolerated?
zdad – What makes you believe that? She masterfully manipulated every part of her “memoir” (culture and personal history included) to prey on readers’ emotions.
Actually, if you knew her, you would definitely be under the assumption that the real story is that she was fooling around with her cousin. (If there was in fact a story) Or, perhaps that she was the one hitting on him.
tahini: nobody is comparing anyone to anything. This thread was about DF – not about if its worse to be a molester. What is so hard to understand about that? Why make assumptions about people’s feelings and beliefs without them even talking about a topic they’re not discussing.
You would probably need to ritually slaughter it to bring it as a Korban.
This thread has really gone off the deep end. Zeeskite was taking a stance against the author of this book – something she feels strongly about. Where do molesters come into the picture? This is not what the conversation is about. You make it sound as if she herself is a molester or at least is harboring one.
MM: I totally agree with you. Funny thing is is that I said the same thing many times when I was watching my friends trying to find themselves.
One more thing to consider. Surgery is regular, full blown, open cut surgery if you come to the ER in the middle of an attack. Otherwise you can usually do it with using the laprascopic technology. You cant compare the recovery.
No. Just something I feel strongly about.
Cute play on words, though.
How big are your stones. It might be dangerous to try to handle this one on your own. Stones that are small enough to easily pass into your pancreas can be fatal c”v . Why don’t you go to a specialist outside of the ER for a consultation and then perhaps go for a second opinion.
Alot of people postpone the surgery with natural stuff for many years and then they end up having to do it anyway. If your a candidate, I would recommend not waiting.
By the way were you terribly itchy in pregnancy?
Where is all the anger coming from?
I don’t claim to know the answer to that but I do have my opinion.
We live in an entitlement society and from when our children are very little they know that they deserve “a” and that “b” is coming to them. If someone were to dare tell them something they don’t like then they have the “right” to be insulted, talk back, etc. We reward our children for every stupid thing. The latest is if you’ll be good when in the shoe store (when the kid themselves is getting new shoes) you’ll get a prize. The thing that gets to me most is the “fairness” and the exact-to-the-hairline- division of rights, goodies, drinks, or anything the kids want or even don’t want but need to have exactly what everyone else has.
I mean come on. Is this the way to prepare a kid for life? Bring them up in a bubble. Convince them that they are the best, smartest, prettiest, never-can-do wrong child in the whole wide world no matter what they do and expect them to grow up in the real world and deal with people?
Why would they have to compromise with a spouse? They are so much better than anyone – they don’t “deserve” to have to give up to make the other person happy. And anyway why deal with problems when its so easy to just drop out and find someone else – someone they really “deserve”. They don’t “deserve” to have to deal with financial problems – let the in-laws deal with it. If they can’t, find someone who does “deserve” to deal with money issues. They don’t “deserve” to have a second class job and they did they agree before they got married to dress their children in cheap clothing from department stores? No. If they would have known before….
That’s where anger comes into play. Nobody is ever taught at the proper age to deal with issues that aren’t exactly as they expect them to be.
more – I think your comment is extremely uncalled for.
And I did forget to mention the cleaning – you can’t compare. That was why I mentioned the basic part about the Bosch. It is very easy to clean.
Best Bubby:
I love my Bosch. I don’t know what I said that made you think otherwise. I would definitely get it again if I had to make the choice. I just stated the fact about the egg whites. If you do the same thing to both whites in the Mill and the Bosch, you’d get better results in the Magic Mill. My whites come out fine in the Bosch. For me the difference is not worth buying the Mill over the Bosch. My cakes come out just fine in the Bosch.
Why would it be a problem to enjoy being mekayeim a mitzvah? Anto look foward to it as well?
It just looks like their trying to outdo one another.
I’ve had experience with both. It really depends what you need it for most.
The Bosch is a very basic machine with a very strong motor. The best part about it is that it comes with a cover so the flour doesn’t make a mess all over. It’s great for Challos. (I do six pounds of flour). I really does a great job mixing all on its own. You don’t need to babysit the dough. All you have to do it throw in all the ingredients and start the machine. It does a great job mixing.
The Magic Mill definitely takes up more room in the cabinet. The attachments for mixing connect to an arm that comes from the bottom and reaches over the top of the bowl. (The bosch connections are all on the inside of the bottom of the bowl.) Which makes it a bit harder to clean. There is no cover so you really have to be careful when you add the flour. With this machine you really need to stand and watch the dough/batter and make sure that it is getting mixed all the way. For instance you have to alternated between a little flour and a little water to make sure you get the texture you want.
One thing that’s important to know is that Although the Bosch does a fine job getting a stiff snow, there’s no arguing that the Magic Mill does a better job. Somehow the snow is fluffier and stiffer and has a better texture. (The Kitchen Aid would win hands down for the snow or cream)
Poppa: Is Mishloach Manos part of the 7 Mitzvos Bnei Noach or are you perhaps “assuming” women are jews 🙂
Sorry to hear about the difficult time you’re having. Specifically during the most difficult times in my life when I let Hashem do the worrying and the work are the times I felt the most free of pressure. Now that you yourself has come to the realization, sit back take a deep breath and take the time to really enjoy life as it is pressure free. It really is exhilarating.
Hatzlacha Raba
When a person has what we call bechirah, a person has to chose what his actions are going to be based on his on perceived view of the world around him. His choices are based on the limited knowledge and understanding that a human brain has. There is no way of him knowing or calculating how his actions would affect the world. And, dare I say it’s ludicrous for us to think that a human being’s actions can affect the Master Plan Hashem has worked out.
Hashem in his infinite wisdom knows exactly the choices that are/will be set before a person and knows how they will respond. That doesn’t take away our bechirah. It’s just that Hashem is the one who created us, our brains and our imagination. He’ll know exactly what we’ll do when. He was the one who wired us in the first place. It’s juvenile to think that we can somehow outsmart our own creator and sort of put his plan in disarray.
Think about a professional painter working on a large painting. He knows the exact amount of which colors to mix to achieve a desired tone/hue for that spot. You’re not going to have red all of the sudden take on a blue color because that’s not the nature of red.
Syag – I don’t know but from all that I’ve observed. (Yup, I’ve been around her for a while.) If she did do teshuva and decided to come back to Yiddishkeit I would have a very hard time accepting that she is/would be sincere. I would definitely suspect that this is just another one of her acts to use whoever or whatever is there to further her own perceived aspirations.
Maybe that’s not right on my part, but her daily behavior definitely begs for this type of reaction.
I’m sorry. I don’t know if I meant dry clean or just not washable. Most six section Yalmukas are washable and most four section are not.
zk: I know what she did was wrong and there’s no excuse. But I don’t see where damage is done.
Logician – true. I’m just semi quoting what I heard long ago from the Baal Teshuva himself. But there are opinions that state that even teshuva doesn’t erase blemishes totally. It’s like erasing a pencil mark off a white paper. If you look closely you’ll still see a smudge. (I don’t know that that’s what he meant. This is something we’ve always learned.)
As teenagers we used to debate this all the time. One time we went to listen to R’ Asher Sinclair speak. He was a major actor or something in Hollywood and became a BT. He’s totally frum with a beard and all.
He started by saying Bmakom shebalei teshuva omdim… and then he started crying. Then he said that he’d rather be born frum, that he’s so jealous of us… because there is so much garbage in his neshama and whatever he does there will still be traces left.
Ashreinu Ma tov Chelkeinu Umanaim Goraleinu – we have to believe it and appreciate it without trying everything out. How do we know if we’ll have the stregnth or the brains to come to the conclusion on our own?
medium – yup. Now that she’s got that out of the way – on to the good stuff.
If she were truly a victim she would be angry or question G-d’s existence at all.
Zeeskite – You must be so weird and backwards standing up against basic western ideas. 🙂
And what happens when our torah institutions are forced to accept their adopted children into our yeshivos or give them jobs because we can’t discriminate?
There are all kinds of crazies out there you never know what will happen?
Medium – that’s exactly the point. She did lead a pretty open lifestyle when she lived in Airmont. She was in good company and basically did as she pleased. I dont think she has a major hatred towards Yiddishkeit I think she just wanted to be free and live a life with zero restrictions.
Some are washable and some are dry clean only. Be careful before you do anything.
There are so many aspects to Yiddishkeit. There is potential for growth in every human being . Nobody is born in a perfect world. How about for example Tikun Hamidos or the love for mitzvos as apposed to doing them out of rote….