Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
haleivi: it does not trouble me greatly to believe that the gmara wasnt precise in its recollection of a story that does not perform a haluchaic function. i understand that there are some (many) who disagree. i, personally, would need much more “of a reason” (to use your words) to change a girsa which implicates haluchu.
nisht: but, see, the Avnei Nezer who explains that the same sasson in story one as the same sason in story two. this will disprove a portion of my theory (that the first story does not include heretics) but verify a portion of my theory (that there is a typo is the recollection of the story). in any event, neither the marsha or the gra understand the two stories to be talking about the same sasson.
although i havent seen this explanation anywhere i dont think its unreasonable to conclude that the gemara quoting sasson and simcha as heretics was a typo. i say this because there is nothing heretical in what they say and the very next story is about a heretic with the same name. i think its not unreasonable to conclude that the heretic is only in story two and the identification of these men as heretics in story one is a typo. again, this is not a pshat i have seen anywhere – just personal reflections.
Rabbi Meir Kahane used to say that the world is round. when someone goes so far to the right he will pop out on the left. the same here. avi weiss and his ilk have moved so far to the right they popped up on al jazeera. the truth is, as we have seen from olmert, sharon, and others, a rightist with no torah values is just a leftist in disguise.
in the times of the second beis hamikdash we had the abtinas family and the garmo family. today we have shietel machers, those who sell matzo and arba minim in their place.
popa: no but he did seem to speak yiddish which is just as fictional. the film was not a telling of the purim story nor was it an attempt at one. i wont dare tell someone else what to watch or not watch but i, personally, did not see anything in it which would be objectionable. in my opinion, it was a beautiful form of art, a chuchmu we do not often (ever?) see from the heimishe world.
So I sat down with my boys to watch the film. Absolutely brilliant. The music was incredible. The storyline was genius. The script was fantastic. The only negative thing I can say is the animation was not perfect but knowing how time consuming and expensive animation can be you can’t blame them. And it genuinely seems like the producers considered the possibility that kids will be influenced negatively and made a concerted effort to avoid the problem. The film was an absolute home run and I hope it becomes successful enough to warrant further productions.
Logician: you are probably right.
whats troubling is not the ban itself. the rabbonim are certainly entitled to their position. what saddens me is the language used in the ban “divoeineninu vedivoin eneinu” calling the script “marid” and using the term “racmunu litzlnun” isnt that overkill? wouldnt it be more rational and measured to simply state – we dont believe you should buy this. why all the drama? at some point people are going to stop running to the call of wolf.
softwords: you read quite a bit into the megillah that is simply not there. even if the medrash aggada is fact, maybe the jews were being punished for assimilating with the goyim (which is probably why mordechai was against them going in the first place).
Logician said: There are very clear statements that certain Gedlom advised against emigration to America DESPITE the obvious dangers in Europe.
I heard the following story from someone who was present. Rav Zelig Epstein ztl, once recounted that certain individuals within Mir were scared of the situation as it was unfolding before WWII and found a way to get papers to go to China. They asked the roshei yeshivos at the Mir what to do and were told not to get the papers to China because everything was going to turn out okay in Europe. The bochrim went out and got the papers anyway. When things got bad they were able to get everyone out. When Rav Zelig was telling this story the listeners asked him how could the Mir Bochrim do such a thing and go against “daas torah.” he responded by saying, “this story happened before daas torah was invented.”
one of the strange things about this election was that i kept hearing chareidim say vote for him because he is chareidi and i heard those who do not like chareidim say vote for cohen because he is not chareidi. so strange. no one ever said what the underlying policies of each one would be for the town of bet shemesh. i dont know how people vote in bet shemesh but the last thing i care about when voting is the culture of the candidate. issues matter, what style clothes they wear dont. im not sure if israel is different but i cant imagine anyone saying vote for obama because he black or vote for the other guy because obama is black. it sounds really awful, actually.
I would like to take issue with the term HaKatan uses for the army which is shmad, or to destroy. The term has historically meant to make someone not observant anymore. It is probably true that the army causes one to lose his or her chareidi culture (or furthers a decision by one to do so) but it is not fair to call someone who is no longer chareidi as destroyed. I do not mean to minimize the loss of someone’s chariediness as someone who has a deeply-held, sincere, religious belief should not be forced to walk away from it. For someone who is chareidi it is a tragedy to make them no longer chareidi. But it is not shmad or destruction for that person to become an observant non-chareidi. nor do i take any position about the “share the burden” legislation as I hear both sides, am not intimately involved or familiar with the law and am confused about the whole thing myself. but calling it shmad is wrong. i grew up in a chassidishe environment and have rachmunu litzlan seen many of my classmates/friends go on to completely lose their religion. these kids’ parents would be thrilled if their children were now no longer chassidic but observant. what has happened to them is shmad. losing your chareidiness, while tragic in its own way, is not shmad. since so many of those who serve in the army come out observant using the term shmad is offensive because it suggests that anyone who is not chareidi is “destroyed.” this is not fair and inflammatory.
Much has been said about the failure of the yeshiva system to bequeth its talmidim with a secular education. Not enough has been said about its failures in giving a true torah education. Usually everyone can agree that the bnei yeshiva are of impeccable middos and derech eretz. With some unfortunately this too has eluded them.
a juvenile and uneducated way to understand chumash is to accept medrash aggada as pshat, disregard all authorities except rashi and explain the words in a way that contravene common sense. it is also a fallacy to believe that the avos were malachim and not people and that they did not not have human emotions.
Both sides are to blame, actually. The government knows that the army does not need or want chareidi soldiers and is only pushing this agenda in order to stomp on the chareidim. on the other hand, the chareidim are not interested in a compromise even if it were to benefit their communities and dig them out of poverty. i am not sure which side is reacting to the unreasonableness of the other.
I agree. Is there a lack of graves in Europe that they brought us to this desert to die? I remember the fish we used to eat for free in Europe. And we had all the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions, and garlic we wanted. If only we had died in the land of Europe, or if only we might die in this wilderness! Why is the Lord taking us to that land to fall by the sword? Our wives and children will be carried off! It would be better for us to go back to Europe! Let us head back for Europe.
Ben Levi: cant the intrinsic value simply be that it is something that gives a person great joy on life? I imagine that first and foremost the Torah’s intention is to make us live a happy life. a person who would enjoy living if she practiced a certain career would see great intrinsic value in a career.
As for those who have argued (and believe it or not I have seen the argument) that it is not very important for the Torah whether or not the person is happy, I suggest you begin by reading Devarim and see all promises made to those who keep the Torah. It is not “you will get to heaven.” Not once is that even mentioned. Sometimes common sense needs to prevail. Of course the Torah wants you first and foremost to be happy.
Of course the Torah prescribes to you what you need to do in order to live a happy life but “be a housewife and not a [dentist/accountant/brick layer]” is not among the Torah prescriptions. The Torah wants you to live a happy/Torah life as a [housewife/dentist/accountant/brick layer] and in many ways finding out what makes you happy in life is the first step in keeping a Torah life.
the pilpul learning done nowadays in most yeshivas (at least in america) is very entertaining but not how learning was historically done. all those mnemonics you see all over shas are there because the whole point of learning was to remember it – not necessarily dissect it and forget it like is done today.
oomis: i am not a fan of censorship either but this particular website needs to be cognizant of possible chillul hashem and i think the threat of chillul hashem is great enough to warrant censorship. you may disagree with the method by which discretion may have been used but you are not the one with the burden of this great task either. some leeway must be given to the moderators to make the wrong call sometimes.
Bais Yaakov Maidel: it seems like you are unhappy in your lot. i think the torah probably wants a jew to be happy more than anything else. if i had daughters i would want them to choose a path that they will be happy in and that is what i will want for my sons too. if they will want to learn then to use that path if they want to be an akeres habayis then that path if they want to be a cardiologist then that path and if they want to be a brick layer then that path.
apikorsus. i see. is that the 14th principle of faith? oh wait. wearing furry hats is the 14th principle. this must be the 15th. or is the 15th the one about the iphones? i get confused.
and i also agree with logician. yes, torah learning when used for the better good is intrinsically valuable and women can contribute towards that value by being enablers but a womans value (or a mans value) is not limited to this particular intrinsically good mitzvah and learning torah or being an enabler for someone to learn can also make you an “unaccomplished” jew depending on other factors. a person who is honest in his or her dealings, makes a kiddish hashem wherever he or she goes and is mechazek the rabbim can also be a very accomplished yid. in other words, bais yaakov maidel’s premise that she can only be an accomplished jew vicariously is only true in a world where the only way a jew can become accomplished is by learning torah. this is unfortunately what the bais yaakovs (of all places) teach.
unfortunately, my employment has kept me from responding meaningfully. someone who sits and learns in order to “pad his stats” for olam habba is derided by chazal. Kiddushin 40b, Megillah 27a; Kiddushin 40b; Bava Kama 17a, Berachot 17a, Yevamot 109b. there are others.
a guy who says im going to learn and does not use it to teach is compared to a desert rose (which no one can enjoy). rav yochanan says that somewhere. i dont remember the mekor for that one.
if you believe that a pushete yid cannot be as accomplished as any other jew youve missed the whole point of our torah. bais yaakov maidel who puts down cleaning ladies would do herself a favor reevaluating how she judges people’s worth and those who have taught her need to rid themselves of their william zanzinger mentality.
????? ??? ????, …?? ????? ??? ?????, ??? ?????
there are also many mamrey chazal which derides the ones who only learns and does nothing with it. i will try to look them up and quote them here.
Bais Yaakov Maidle: I think you may have a different value of “accomplishment” than the Torah does. It is not really your fault as most BY and yeshivas brained washed a generation to believe that a person’s accomplishment is how much torah they will learn. This is not a Torah value. a person’s accomplishments comes from how positively he has affected his community. a person who sits and learns but never teaches torah or good middos to anyone else is valueless. a cab driver is more valuable to society than a person that just sits and learns and does not use any of that towards the betterment of society.
in the torah society you can accomplish a lot of good in many different ways. ?????????? ???????????, ?????????? ?????????????, ????, ????? ??????????. ???????? ?????????–????????, ?????? ???????? ?????????: ??????? ???????, ??? ?????? ????????
once you realize that accomplishments can come in many different forms you will see that the guy who knows of all of shas may also not be accomplished and the woman who is sincere in her faith and raises the next generation of god fearing jews is far more accomplished.
i’d prefer not to believe in gilgulim but there are certain events that are difficult to understand without the concept of gilgulim. i guess, as a whole, i am agnostic about gilgulim.
when i read this part of a tshuve i thought of this thread and this forum in general.
,??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ,????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??????, ???? ???? ??? ????? ,?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ,?????? (-????”? ??? ?”? ?????) ????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? .?????? -?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???????? ,????? ?????? ???’ ,????? ,?? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????[ ,???? ??? ???? ???? ????”? ??????????? ???????? ,????? ????? ??’ ??? ??? ,??????”? ??’ ??? ,???’ ????? ??? (?? ?”? ???-???) ,?”?] ,?? ???-??? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ??”? ??? ???? ,????? ?????? ,??? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ???????? ,?”???? ?????” ,??”?????? ???”? ?? ?? ????” ,?????? ,??? ??? ???? ????? ?”? ??”? ?????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ,????? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??????? ??? ?? ?????? -????? ?? ??”?[ .???? ?? ?? ????? (?”? ?????) -?????? ???????? (??”? ?????) ??? ???? -???? ??? ???? ,????? ,?????? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ,???? ??? (??”?) ?”???????” ????? ?????? ????? ????? ????]. ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ???
oomis: in such a case it would be okay if the water boiler never went to 110 at all during shabbos not just when the water is going in. i heard of someone who rigged his system exactly as you describe.
DY, Berlin, etc: grommo is ussur mdirabunun. many great talmidei chachumim matired electricity use on shabbos and yuntiff. the olam didnt agree (and the tzad hetr was based on faulty science in any event).
DY: try and try again you will not get me to chas vesholim say anything against the rama hakadoish. the part where we believe that our lack of derekh eretz is rooted in haluchu, i get. i just dont know how we got here.
just to set the record straight: i dont believe that giving a shadhchin $1,000 to show your hakuris hatov is too much if you can afford it. i just think its absurd to think of shadhunis as a business. it is disgusting. its like being a kidney broker. it is sick. if chas visholim i needed a kidney and someone made a shiddich for me i would be’ahava give that person a reward but kidney brokers are scum. if we, in our world, cannot see that, something has gone awfully wrong with us.
what is starting to bother me so much about the heimish community is how far detached from reality we have become that we have lost sight of basic human decency sometimes. I sometimes wonder when did it happen that basic human decency was replaced by our heimish subculture. I find it in complete lack of taste for a shadchan to demand money that even debating the issue is in poor taste. for so many people to be gung ho about insisting that shadchanim must be paid “like caterers and florists” is just nauseating. can you imagine what someone from the outside would think when looking at us? that all we care about is money, money, money. even on mitzvis we look to make money. what ever did happen to us? but i guess when no one protested esrogim at hundreds of dollars and matzos at dozens of dollars per pound, sheitles at thousands of dollars – we started down this slippery slope where it is okay for people to think that not only can they make a living off of mitzvis but become rich off of it. what ever happened to doing things because it is a mitzveh? what ever happened to us?
Daas Yochid,
If you take a look at the back and forth from two years ago you will see that it was actually AZ who suggested, in response to suggestions that it was a scam, that the success of the program will be the arbiter.
I do not doubt that many sincere people contributed to the program and that many very righteous men were part of that team but ultimately, I have little doubt that the program was driven by greedy shadchunim who managed to use a good cause and manipulate good people into an evil endeavor.
If you've read "NASI Project Responds", have you changed your mind?
Two years ago, when the project came out, AZ said ,”I think we’ve beaten this bush to death and now we will let the results do the talking.”
In reply I stated, “AZ makes one good point: time will tell a lot. if the folks at nasi become filthy rich, as they hope, then obviously nasi has filled a void that actually existed. if they fall flat then we learn, in hindsight, where these folks were coming from – just using scare tactics to make money off of people’s fears and weaknesses.”
Add to that 5 engagements (how many marriages?) in 2 years and there is zero evidence that this program was anything other than another scam perpetrated by people who need to find a real job but cannot because they do not offer anything worthwhile to society.
the gemoro is brochis says dovid hamelech woke up at midnight to do thillim. the mekubulim say this is because night time is not right for rachamim but is a time for din. for the same reason, we lehaluchu dont do slichis in tishrei until chatzoys or during the day.
i do not think its a bad idea to tell her “look, i cant force you to clean but i will be unhappy living in an unkept home. what would be more difficult for you, cleaning or living with an unhappy husband?” marriage is about sacrifice (and taking the lesser of two evils sometimes)
as the introduction in the artscroll says, the reason shkulim was included in the cycle was because the vilna shas used to print shkulim with bavli. the cycle is based on what the printer included in the volumes and what it did not.
with respect to yerushalmi aramaic versus bavli: (1) as stated before, aramaic was the language of israel in those days (see, mel gibson, passion of the christ) (2) as stated before, the dialects differed.
it is also important to note that both gemaras are essentially a collection of peoples notes. the notes collected for yerushalmi were reprinted in a form much closer to its original. there was less editing. hence, yerushalmi appears in shorthand.
as stated above, the bavli went through extensive editing over the years and evolved to what you see today. the yerushalmi is less evolved.
Dear Chasson,
I was not sure what to write to you so I thought – with this being the most special day in our lifelong bonding, and all- that i should have strangers from the forum at yeshiva world write it for me. they said i should tell you i like you but truth be told i am not sure i even know what that means. i know i like liking you and like even better you liking me. they said i should tell you how much i cant wait to be your wife but i guess i dont really know what that is going to be like either. no one truly does on their wedding day. so thats pretty much it, i guess.
like,
lovehashem
p.s. call misaskim hotline 24 hours a day 7 days a week.
outsider: not sure the shulchan aruch will be the best place to start. also, the kitzur is not a shortened version but a different version of codified law which happens to be shorter. if jewish law is what you crave maybe begin with the rambam’s yad hachazaka also known as the mishna torah. it is not anyone’s final authority on jewish law (except for some Yemenite communities) but it is a great place to begin. i believe it has been translated many times into english.
his brother, who was recently niftar, was named naim ovadia. ovadia was the last name. in addition, maran is named abdulrahim yousef and his jewish name is ovadia yosef. his full name was therefore ovadia yosef ovadia. he dropped the second ovadia and adopted his middle name as his last name making it ovadia yosef. rav reuven elbaz who is a very sweet and genuine talmid chuchum added chaim to the beginning making his full hebrew name chaim ovadia yosef. i have this sneaking suspicion that when maran gets back he will drop the chaim as he is was well known to have had a different approach towards naming than rav elbaz. i can only chuckle as i envision maran’s reaction to the idea that rav elbaz added chaim to his name. his mother’s name was georgia as in the state which was a common name is baghdad.
id much rather a really good sneeze than a good cry. sometimes i just need one of those lung-shaking sneezes that really tear at all my sinuses at once. ah! geshmak!
i am generally considered a liberal democrat as are most new yorkers. that being said, one thing the past few decades have proved is that new yorkers are also very smart when it comes down to who will get their vote for mayor and do not automatically vote for the liberal democrat. new yorker vote for whomever will do the best job and as such i foresee lhota in a landslide.
it goes without saying that there is nothing inherently problematic about a shiddich that begins online but very often a relationship that develops online lacks any mamushis and the two not only do not know each other but they “know” a warped and twisted “twilight zone” version of each other that is far removed from reality – which is even worse than not knowing each other at all. as this couple spends more real time together they will know whether it is real or not. in any event, hashem has many ways to form shiduchim. mazal tov.
“of course i cannot tell you what to do. but i do love you and want to help you make decisions which are best for you. you are an adult now and there are many adults out there, 18 years old, 28 years old, 38 years old and 98 years old who make terrible choice every single day. it is their right just like it is your right. and i cannot and do not wish to control your decisions. but as someone who loves you more than anyone else in the world and who wishes to see nothing but the best for you, as well as someone who has learned from my own mistakes and from the mistakes of others over the years, i wish to offer you what i believe are the best options for you and i pray and hope that with your free will you choose to consider my advice, which comes from a combination of my love for you and my years of experience, as you form your own destiny”
paul simon wrote many christian songs including one called “jesus is the answer.” bob dylan put out many albums of christian music. neil diamond put out a christmas album. all good jews and all good business people.
You’ve all heard of Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies. I think on YWN there is a CR Rule of NK Analogies. The longer any discussion about any topic progresses the greater likelihood NK name will be invoked. Which actually just makes it one more thing NK and the Nazis have in common.
gedolim without beards:
Rabbi Benzion Rafael haKohen Frizzi
Rabbi Yitzchak Shmuel Reggio
Rabbi Moshe ben Gershom of Chefetz
i believe we are all MO. Not what MO has become but what modern orthodoxy teaches. Prior to the modern orthodoxy renaissance, the frum velt believed that it is inappropriate for a frum yid to study secular sciences and math and that everything you need in life can be obtained from the study of torah. modern orthodoxy preached that we should study the secular studies in order to be able to live in the modern world and earn money and provide for our families. (there is a branch that believed in studying secular studies lishma but main stream modern orthodoxy preached it only in order to be able to learn a vocation). while many stood against this idea when it was first promulgated, today, everyone agrees that a secular education is vital. only in those chassidhe schools where secular education is not taught and in israel where “core subjects” are not taught, all frum main stream jews gain a secular education through high school and a majority through college of some sort.
in that sense we are all MO.
what has become of “modern orthodoxy” with its ideals of “moderation” and laxity in certain areas of the torah is not what MO was originally touted as being.
i suggest that those who bash MO should read the literature about it and see if they really disagree with the ideals instead of looking at those who label themselves MO and notice how different they are.
the gemoro very much talks about A”Z and zionism:
?”? ????? ???? ??? ??”? ???’ ???? ????? ???? ??? ???? ???”? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???’ (????? ??) ??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???”? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? (????? ? ??) ?? ?????? ???? ?????? ????? ?’ ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???”? ????? ???? ????? ???
Kanoi: you hate the Zionists, many (most?) jews are Zionists, you hate many (most?) jews, an anti-Semite hates jews, you are an anti-Semite.
but that is not even what i meant: what i meant was most people who tell you they are anti-Zionist really mean they hate Judaism and Jews who identify as Jewish. Like Ahmadinejad who says he is not anti-Jewish but anti-Zionist. This is not true. In his heart he hates Judaism and those who identify with it. Same with Jewish people like Noam Chomsky or Norm Finklestein. Same with “religious” (looking) Jewish people. an anti-Semite is an anti-Semite is an anti-Semite. May they all be destroyed soon.
sure, there are (few) exceptions, that is why i called it a general rule. and then there is Satmar which is outside this conversation.