benignuman

GAW,

In those days everyone would wear different clothing when they were Niddos. People needed to know for tumah and tahara. See, e.g., Kiddushin 80a, Rashi d”h ?????? ??? ?????????. Therefore there would have been no additional embarrassment.

“If: A. Schok = having fun in a non-platonic manner

and B. A date by definition is non-platonic.

Then,C: it can’t be assur to have “schok” on a date.”

C does not follow from the premises A & B. Creating a non-platonic relationship is not the issur. The gezeira is having fun/playing together in a non-platonic way or flirting because such activities are ??????? ?????.

I am understanding “???? and ???? ???” as meaning flirtatious talking or behavior (???? ???) and playing or having fun in a non-platonic manner (“????”).

I am sourcing it primarily from the meforshim on Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 195:1 and Avos 3:13 and Rabbeinu Yonah thereon. My understanding of kalos rosh also comes from the way Rav Moshe uses it when discussing the need for a mechitza.

I am not offended.

Person 1,

I would recommend looking up the Shulchan Aruch, and the Rambam it is based on to see if you pshat in “schok and kalus rosh” works. Additionally, the same terminology is used by ???? ???, which is certainly not a forbidden relationship.

Lilmod,

Not talking to women more than necessary is based on the Mishna in Avos “Al tarbeh sicha im ha’isha.” But that, like many things in Avos, is understood as a midas chasidus or good religious advice. It is not brought down in halacha and is, as you said a “grey area.” Schok and Kalus Rosh are types of talking/playing/interacting that are forbidden with arayos. While there is some grey on the margins of what is considered Schok and Kalus Rosh, it seems to me that many boys dating even from good yeshivos go well over the grey line into clearly prohibited areas.

Dave & Busters is an arcade/bar/poolhall for classier clientel then a typical arcade/bar/poolhall.

Joseph,

Yes, I agree that is preferable. I don’t think it is mandatory because I think that there is median between modern dating in the Yeshiva world and the Chasidish model that is mutar.

Lilmod,

The Mishna uses the term ?????? for the men coming before women, it does not use that term for Kohanim coming before Yisroel. Furthermore, the Shulchan Aruch only brings down a Kohen coming before a Yisroel for tzedaka, it doesn’t say anything about for saving a life.

Now, there is a machlokes among the Rishonim whether ?????? means for saving a life or for providing tzedaka. But the Rema clearly paskens that a man comes before a women if they are both drowning. The Yerushalmi on that Mishna says specifically that the wife of a “Chaver” (roughly equivalent to a “ben Torah”) comes before an am ha’aretz ??????.

Joseph,

No, a Kohen is not by default on a higher spiritual level than a Yisroel. The priority of a Kohen before a Yisroel is because of the kavod that Hashem requires we give the Kehuna. So all things being equal we give kavod to the Kohen but if we know that the Yisroel is a greater talmud chochom, the Yisroel comes first because the kavod HaTorah comes first.

That being said, I don’t think you are correct that we necessarily save the life of a Kohen first. The Mishna in Horios that I think you are referring to, is talking about kedima in tzedaka or kavod. See Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 351:9.

In the case of a woman and a man, when it comes to tzedakah the Shulchan Aruch paskens that the woman has kadimah. (Yoreh Deah 351:8) When it comes to hatzalas nefoshos, the Rema paskens that the man comes first (Yoreh Deah 352:8). The meforshim explain that this is because a man has more mitzvos than a woman (i.e. the greater potential of the man wins out over the higher floor of the woman). But if one knew that the woman was righteous and the man was not, b’pashtus the woman would come first. See Yerushalmi Horiyos 3:4.

The following should be obvious:

Men are not on a higher spiritual level than women; women are not on a higher spiritual level than men. One’s spiritual level depends on one’s personal choices in the test of life. It is purely individual and cannot be assigned on a category level.

Having more mitzvos means that generally speaking men have greater potential than women both for good and for bad. When the Gemara says that women have a more secure promise for Olam Haba than men it is specifically because generally speaking it is easier for a woman to fulfill what Hashem wants from her than a man, not because women are born “better.”

Joseph,

1. We make the bracha of shelo asani isha because men should be thankful for the opportunity to gain greater heights than women through the increased mitzvos and Torah obligations we have.

2. The Gemara in Berachos 17a fits beautifully with what I am saying. The Gemara says that the havtacha for women to gain Olam Hamba is greater than for men. Why? The mother brings her children to cheder and gets schar, she sends her husband to learn and she gets schar. But the men only get the schar if they actually learn and they lose schar when they battel. It is easier for the ordinary woman to bring her sons/husband to learn Torah than it is for the ordinary son/husban to learn properly.

Daas Yochid,

That Christie line made me smile. Thanks.

On the other hand, Nixon’s bombing of Cambodia also help end the Vietnam War saving thousands of American lives. Nixon bombed Cambodia because the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong had been using Cambodia as a “safe zone” where they would flee to recover and rearm knowing that the Americans wouldn’t bomb them there (and even attack American and South Vietnamese Troops from Cambodian soil). The Americans bombed the North Vietnamese that were in Cambodia, not the entire country. The lack of Cambodian safe zone and the bombing of Ho Chi Mihn City helped bring North Vietnam to the negotiating table to sign the Paris Peace Accords in early 1973.

To say that the bombing of Cambodia “led to the rise of Khmer Rouge” is historical speculation. Khmer Rouge pre-existed the bombing and received direct help from the North Vietnamese in overthrowing the government. Arguably, the opposite is true. If Nixon hadn’t been under investigation because of Watergate and hadn’t been frustrated by Congress with the Case-Church amendment, Nixon would have prevented Khmer Rouge from taking Cambodia. There is simply no way to know one way or the other.

While Nixon certainly had some classic Anti-semitic prejudices, he also saved the state of Israel and millions of Jewish lives by re-arming the Israeli Defense Forces in the middle of the Yom Kippur War.

George W. Bush was the worst in my lifetime, despite being a good man. The Iraq War was the worst mistake of his presidency, but by no means the only mistake. Allowing Feddie and Fannie to help perpetuate the housing bubble, creating new entitlements and running up the debt, and the Patriot Act are additional misguided, albeit well-intentioned, Bush errors.

Joseph,

I am not disputing that Yushke (as described in the Gospels) is a rasha. At the very least he went against the Chachomim of the time. However there is a potential charitable view of him in which most of the rishus came from his followers after his death. They believed that Yushke claimed himself to be divine (which would be Avoda Zara) but it isn’t clear that Yushke actually did that. It was also his followers after his death that said a person no longer needed to keep the Torah. Yushke himself said the opposite. In this perspective, Yushke is just another Jew who taught and encouraged the poor and the downtrodden, who was deified after his death by his flock.

I am not saying that the Gospels are perfectly accurate but the earliest New Testament writings are written only about 20-30 years after Yushke’s death when his original disciples were still living. It doesn’t seem likely that the details could be so off.

I saw a poll being reported that overall (i.e. across the country) Orthodox Jews voted 56% for Hillary.

I wonder how that squares with this. Maybe in-town vs. out-of-town or ultra-Orthodox vs. Orthodox.

Health!

Fortunately, I do know what I am talking about. And I was talking about Jews. Do you think the States are going to make laws that only apply to non-Jews? If they ban abortion, it will apply to Jews as well.

I don’t think the question is whether you view healthcare as a privilege or a necessity. I view it as both.

Being provided healthcare when needed is a necessity in the sense that it is necessary for you to live. Under US law a person cannot be refused needed medical care at an emergency room.

But health insurance is privilege. You must be treated but you will receive a bill afterward. Not paying your bill is not a necessity and no one else can be morally required to pay your bill for you.

All that being said, I actually support Medicaid for all (aka single payer) along the lines of the Israeli model (the Canadian model is not as good). The quality of care will decrease but people who want higher quality of care can pay out of pocket for better doctors or better insurance. I support this, not because it is a necessity or a right, but because the US is a rich enough country to provide it and why shouldn’t they. The US will spend billions of dollars to rescue US citizens being held hostage by a terrorist group. But if the same citizens are dying of cancer, the US shouldn’t pay millions to save them?

Flatbusher,

Until the advent of Soncino, the unlearned did not learn Gemara at all and would not have been capable of reading an agadata Gemara to misunderstand it. Gemara has always been meant to be learned from a Rebbi. Modern times has seen the introduction of Artscroll and other “cheating” seforim, but they are usually careful to point out when agadata’s are clearly not literal.

My estimate of the people covered by insurance that they purchase through their employment (often subsidized to some degree by their employer) was not including those that were already getting their healthcare from Medicare or Medicaid before the ACA.

My premiums have gone up but not at a pace that seems outrageous. The increase in deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance, however, have been terrible. I am now paying over 1,700 a month (employer pays the rest) for incomplete coverage and what amounts to a high-deductible plan (compared to my deductibles of 4 years ago.

First of all it is not at all clear that the person mentioned in the Gemara that some meforshim understand as a reference to Jesus, is actually talking about the same person that Christians worship. The details of his life as described in the Gemara are widely off that of the Gospels, such that the Yeshu of the Gemara lived nearly 100 years earlier. There is a good chance that they are not the same person and it is a mistake to attribute the activities of one to the other.

Second of all, the “Sanhedrin” that condemned him to death was not the real Sanhedrin (which had already moved to Yavne 50 years before the destruction of Bais Sheini). It was a Tzeduki Sanhedrin (i.e. made up of apikorsim) that had no halachic legitimacy at all (and probably were just doing what they thought the Romans wanted).

Joseph,

I do not think he is on their side. However I do think that he is deliberately not trying hard to disabuse them of their notion. In addition, the very fact that they believe it and are emboldened by his victory disgusts me.

Obamacare has mailos and chesronos. Unfortunately the mailos and chesronos are tied to each other so that you can’t get one without the other (e.g. covering pre-existing conditions requires a mandate).

If you do not have insurance through your employment and if your income is low enough, then Obamacare makes you better off.

If you have insurance through your employment or if your income is relatively high, then Obamacare leaves you worse off. My health insurance costs through my employment have increased every year since the ACA went into effect and the coverage has gone down (i.e. higher deductables, higher co-pays, higher-co-insurance).

Overall, more people have been hurt by Obamacare than gained from it (because 70% or so get their insurance through their employment) but the hurt has been relatively minor to the gains.

In short, repealing Obamacare will help more people a little and hurt fewer people a lot.

As Comlink-X said:

Virgin Birth: The birth of Yoshke without his father making contact with his mother.

Immaculate Conception: the conception of Mary (Yoshke’s mother) without the spiritual stain of the “original sin” (i.e. Adam and Chava eating from the Etz HaDas).

Lilmod,

I knew you meant midrashei aggada and not all midrashim. I was responding that even things you might call midrashei aggada are sometimes meant literally to explain parts of the Torah. If you don’t like the Ur Kasdim example, another example would be the midrash that the 70th person to go down to Mitzrayim was Yocheved who was born in the gates. This is a midrash meant to explain the calculations of people in the pesukim. It isn’t about some deeper meaning about Yocheved or Levi.

lilmod,

I am not sure how you are understanding the word “midrash.” There are definitely statements brought down in midrashim that are meant entirely literally. These midrashim explain pshat in a pasuk. For example, think of the midrash about Avram being thrown into a furnace by Nimrod.