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Lapid has publicly said that he would do everything in his power to strip the Orthodox of control over marriage, divorce and conversion. That is by far the greatest danger he poses. It would increase the number of mamzeirim in klal Yisroel a thousandfold, chas v’shalom.
All the Orthodox parties have to fight this tooth and nail. I don’t understand how an Orthodox rabbi can be on his ticket.
“anyone who didn’t vote for them lost their Cheleq in Olom haBo, as per the Pesak of the Rosh Yeshiva of Ponovitz Yeshiva.”
147, That is absurd. I don’t know if the Rosh Yeshivah of Ponovitch really said that or not, but if he did there is no way he meant it literally. It is merely hyperbole.
Health,
Why do you think he had the locks on the door?
TLKY,
“Proof” is word that has little meaning without a standard attached to it. There was plenty of evidence against Weberman. There was evidence for Weberman. The jury’s job is to determine which evidence weighs more. In this case it mostly came down to whom they viewed as more credible, her or him. If they view her as more credible, then the evidence against Weberman is very heavy and the evidence for him is light indeed.
The jury clearly viewed her as more credible and therefore were correct, based on their assessment, to find Weberman guilty.
Rabbi Horowitz, is a man of integrity and people trust him. He gives credibility to the anonymous allegations.
The verdict was extreme, much longer than verdicts in molestation cases normally are. Weberman will most likely die in prison. Hopefully this will shock the Williamsburg and greater Jewish Communities into taking abuse more seriously.
Hilchos Yichud protect us and protect our children. No therapist should have a locked door. There should be a window into the office where people can see in or a CCTV that can be watched by a nurse or secretary.
Yesh Atid joining the government can have terrible implications. Lapid, their leader, wants to end Orthodox control of marriage, divorce and conversion. If he succeeds, the number of mamzeirim in E”Y will skyrocket, chas v’shalom.
Kanoi,
Assuming you are correct that the army has no need for additional soldiers, would you be opposed to the Chareidim using a Hesder like system and the surplus of soldiers allowing for the current Hesder boys and the Chareidim to each have shorter stints in the army and more time learning?
Health,
I am not MO and I am not Mizrachi. I am a Zionist in the same way Rav Gifter T”ZL was (“I am the biggest Tzioni, I say 3 times a day ‘v’sechezena eineinu b’shuvcha l’TZION b’rachamim”).
BTW dropping “brainwashing” into a debate is absolutely pointless. It is an attack that can always be turned back on its user. How do you know I am brainwashed, maybe you are brainwashed? It’s just silly.
Oh . . . you might want to look up the definition of “slander.”
Daas Yochid & Sushee,
I am not expecting the Chareidim in E”Y to listen to the Mizrachi Gedolim over the Chareidi Gedolim. I was responding to a point made by Ben Levi arguing that all Gedolim held that the Yeshivaleit should not serve. My point is that one cannot say that there is definitive “Daas Torah” with respect to this issue. It is matter of machlokes.
This argument should be one of debate and reason and not calling “Gedolim” to try and end the discussion.
Yevamos. First large mesechta I ever finished and knew. It’s very challenging, has some great lomdus and is chock full of interesting and odd happenings.
Health,
There are no women soldiers in Nahal HaChareidi or Hesder units. Please don’t slander the fine soldiers of those units who are risking their lives to protect Yidden.
Health,
I am not “trusting” any Rabbis. I understand the reasons behind the opinion that most Chareidim should serve in the IDF. I don’t understand the reasons behind the opinion that Chareidim should not serve in the IDF.
Daas Yochid,
“Infallible” means that you can’t make a mistake, it doesn’t mean you are right on occasion. If the Chazon Ish says a pshat I don’t understand, I break my head to understand it too. If, however, R’Elchanan also says a pshat and R’Elchanan’s I understand, then I am going to go forward in the Gemara with R’Elchanan.
If you have been m’kabel R’Chaim Kanievsky as your Rav then yes you are bound by his psak, whether he is right or wrong (unless it is k’neged an ofene mishnah). But I highly doubt that most people, even Chareidim, have been m’kabel R’Chaim Kanievsky as their Rav.
Additionally, even if one is m’kabel and they must follow doesn’t mean that the position is the correct one.
Ben Levi,
There are two different categories that need to be clarified. There are Gedolim that hold that all Yeshivaleit should be drafted:
Rav Sholom Yofef Zevin Z”TL
Rav Aharon Lichtenstein Shlita
Rav Shlomo Aviner Shlita
There are then many more that hold Talmidei Chachomim should not be drafted but those that are not on that level should be drafted (and Yeshiva students could delay being drafted but should eventually serve):
Rav Avraham Yitzchak Hakohen Kook Z”TL
Rav Yehuda Amital Z”TL
Rav Tzvi Yehuda Kook Z”TL
Rav She’ar Yoshuv Cohen Z”TL
I am not particularly familiar with the Mizrachi/Hesder world, so I would guess that there are many more whom I am not familiar with.
TLKY,
There is a difference between Emunas Chachomim and treating Gedolim as infallible (what do you do when there is machlokes?). Emunas Chachomim means trusting the mesorah and trusting that the Chachomim are acting out of the best of intentions. It does not mean blind faith in what they say. They are not Neviim.
When you are in Yeshiva and the maggid shiur says a pshat that you disagree with, do you just accept it? I hope not, because if you do you will never learn how to learn.
TLKY,
There are Gedolim on both sides of the issue. The important point however is not to just accept the statements put out in the name of the Gedolim without an examination of their sources and reasoning. We are not dealing with a Sanhedrin HaGadol here.
I too am often bothered by the racism I hear in frum circles. However I think that a distinction needs to be drawn between generalizing about a group (be it racial, cultural, national, political etc.) and judging an individual based on that generalization.
Every individual is a tzelem elokim and can make free moral choices. It is true however that there are generalization that can be made about groups. The key is not to judge the individual before you based on some characteristic that known about his group in general.
“Our Gedolim said it’s Ossur to go to the Israeli army. This is from Gedolim from the previous generation. Even if I didn’t personally understand the reason, it’s a Kiddush Hashem to listen to them.”
First of all, the situation today is different then it was in the previous generation. The IDF is willing to have glatt kosher units keeping high standards of halacha. There is no longer an official objective to secularize the members of the IDF.
Second of all, it is not a kiddush hashem to follow a ruling from a previous generation without knowing the reason why. Halachik and Hashkafic rulings of Gedolim (a.k.a. Daas Torah) are not meant to be followed blindly but to be followed based on an understanding of the reasoning behind them (assuming one has the capabilities to follow the reasoning). If you don’t understand the reasons behind the ruling then it is dangerous and foolish to apply it to different circumstances.
I am willing to listen, learn and understand. The original poster asked for an explanation. So far (with the possible exception of Akuperma, pending investigation) the explanations have been lacking. If someone gives me a good convincing pshat behind the purported (it would be nice to see an actual teshuvah) I will accept it.
TLKY,
They said it was a kiddush Hashem? When and where? Are they aware of how it looks from the outside? Are they aware of the way it is perceived by Jews and non-Jews in America? Maybe it would make a difference if someone let them know about the Chillul Hashem.
I don’t expect you to just stop listening, but I do expect you to question and ask yourself whether you are satisfied with the answer. If you aren’t, ask again explaining why you are not satisfied. Gedolim are not oracles they are teachers, rabbeim.
If you are learning a gemara and your Rebbi gives an answer to a kasha and you don’t understand it, what do you do? Do you just accept it or do you ask again until either you understand or you come to the conclusion that your Rebbi is wrong and try to come up with a different pshat?
“All combat soldiers are volunteers.”
Akuperma, if that is true, then I change my position. In that case I would only ask that Chareidim get a few months of basic training so they could be called upon in case of extreme emergency (i.e. all out war).
Kanoi, I understand that not all those serving in the IDF are risking their lives (although nobody starts as a general). However if Akuperma is wrong, there is no segment of the population that is spared their children being put in harms way other than the Chareidim. So while individual Mizrachi boys might be spared, their brothers are not.
I remember when R’Elyashiv gave his haskomoh to the Tal Law. His house was stoned by “Chareidim.” That was a Chillul Hashem. Chillul Hashem is a concept that speaks to how outsiders see Torah and Yidishkeit. Show me a public statement (i.e. one that can be confirmed) by any Torah outsider praising the Chareidi refusal to serve in the IDF, and I will rethink whether or not it is a Chillul Hashem.
Finally, the Religious Zionists and the Modern Orthodox have Gedolim too. The fact that you disagree with them doesn’t diminish them as talmidei chachimim and tzaddikim. People are tossing around terms like “Gedolei Yisroel” and “Daas Torah” but cutting out half of the world of Torah.
For those suggesting a professional army. This is able to work in the US because the US is a huge country that doesn’t need much defense on its borders and has a very large population. The US has 1.5 million active in its army and another half million in reserve but it is drawing from a population over 330 million. Basically the army is .5% of the population.
Israel has a population of 7 million and needs large army because it is surrounded by enemies and potential enemies on all sides. .5% of the population in the army would be 3,500 which is 10% of the size of the NYPD’s uniformed officers.
A professional army would be suicidal.
Ben Levi,
In Halacha and Hashkafa how things look is also important. The posuk says “you should be pure before Hashem and Israel.” That the Chareidim do not sent their children to the army is certainly Chillul Hashem and the Religious Zionists have good reason to be upset with us.
Health and Kanoi,
You are still missing the point. The issue is not that Chareidim aren’t doing anything to protect the country. The Torah and Mitsvos they do is certainly a tremendous zchus that allows Israel to maintain its existence.
However, the Chareidim (other than those in Nachal Hacharedi) are not risking their lives. They have only the upside without the downside. People avoid army service, not because they don’t value protecting Jews, but because they are afraid of death and serious injury.
It is not the learning of Torah Jews that generates animosity, it is the fact that they do not put themselves in a position where they might have to make the ultimate sacrifice.
And Health, before you make an ad hominem attack, I went to Chareidi Yeshivos in America and Eretz Yisroel, I lived in a Chareidi neighborhood and I learned in kollel. I am not Modern Orthodox and never have been.
Kanoi and Health,
I am not saying that the army “needs” the Chareidim, I am saying that it isn’t right that only the Chilonim and the Daati Leumi/Mizrachi/Hesder risk their lives in the IDF when the Chareidim get the same protection.
The reason the Chareidim avoiding army service bothers so many other Israelis is that they feel that they and their children are risking their lives and the Chareidim are not.
Derech HaMelech, you wrote:
“We aren’t mevatel mitzvos for the sake of chillul Hashem. It’s not a chillul Hashem when the question is a mitzvah. If you have any source that says otherwise, please put it on the table.”
See Yevamos 79a: Dovid HaMelech executes Shaul’s descendants for what Shaul did to the Givonim. The Gemara asks that it is assur min hatorah to kill children for their father’s crimes. The Gemara answers that R’Yochanan said “mutav sh’t’aker os achas min hatorah v’al yischallel shem shomayim b’pharhesya.”
Further down the same amud the Gemara says that the bodies were strung up for a whole season. The Gemara asks that the posuk says that we cannot hang up a body overnight. The gemara answers that R’Yochanan said “mutav sh’t’aker os achas min hatorah v’yiskadesh shem shomayim b’pharhesya.”
Englishman,
I will assume you meant if R’Chaim Kanievsky was 20 years old, because obviously soldiers need to be young and healthy. Not everyone can join hatzoloh but everyone can participate in mitzvos they do by donating money.
Akuperman,
I will even go so far as to admit of the possibility of an Arab state in E”Y that allows a Jewish minority to remain relatively free of harassment. But before that happens there will be weeks of bloodshed, and when the progroms start the Arabs won’t differentiate between Chilonim and Chareidim, they will kill, maim and rape all Jews.
Derech HaMelech,
We are not allowed to rely on nissim. We have to make hishtadlus to the utmost and rely on HKBH for the rest. If we just sat and learnt and did not have an army we should not be surprised if we were slaughtered. The Rambam you cite is clearly referring to exceptional individuals, people who are the exception not the norm.
I agree with Ender. If you are self motivated classes aren’t worth it. The best way to prepare for the LSAT is to take practice tests, as many as possible.
If you find yourself having trouble with a particular area get a book devoted to that area and take more practice questions in that area. Hatzlacha Raba!
Reb Doniel,
There are different types of Buddhism. Zen Buddhism (i.e. the American form) is “non-theistic” but Tibetian Buddhism is theistic and is avoda zarah. Read “The Jew and the Lotus” the description of a Jewish Delegation that goes to meet the Dalai Lama.
Hinduism is at the early stage of Avoda Zara described by the Rambam in the beginning of sefer Mada. They believe that there is one real G-d who created everything but who is too awesome for mere mortals to relate to. Therefore there are many little gods that interact with people on a day to day level.
DerechHamelech and Akuperman,
Are you seriously suggesting that the IDF is not preventing a wholesale slaughter of the Jews in Eretz Yisroel? Maybe if the Zionists had never returned, we could live in relative peace (i.e. just second-class citizens). But they did and now, 80 years later the only thing -outside of nissim which one cannot rely on- that is protecting the Jews of Israel is the IDF. The aggadata from the Yerushalmi is making a theological point, it is not suggesting that armies are unnecessary or somehow endanger the people they are designed to protect.
When we say the zechus of Torah learning protects us we do not mean that it creates ananei hakovod to catch missiles. We mean that it provides the zchus that allows the IDF to be successful.
Yes Talmud Torah is keneged kulam, but that is in terms of schar not in terms of what takes precedence. Would you hold that it is assur for a Ben Torah to be in Hatzoloh or Zakah? Is it assur for a Ben Torah to leave kollel to get a job to support his family?
We are not suggesting kollelim should be abolished, chas v’shalom, nor are we suggesting that chareidim who serve in the army should not learn every day. We are merely suggesting that chareidim take some of the burden in risking their lives for the protection of their fellow Jews.
Kozov,
I was unaware of the Rikanti’s usage of Targum Yonosan (a citation would be appreciated). However you are still missing the point. Why do we not find mention of a Targum Yonosan al HaTorah until the middle Rishonim? Why don’t we find it mentioned in the Bavli or the Yerushalmi or the early midrashim? Why are we using Onkelos and not Targum Yonosan?
(btw Even if Rashi is quoting from it, he never refers to it as Targum Yonosan)
I am confused by some of this discussion. Even if the current Israeli government doesn’t have the status of a Malchus Yisroel (something I find difficult to understand), the IDF is certainly saving Jewish lives and thereby engaging in one of the greatest mitzvos possible. We can argue about whether there is a chiyuv to join the army, but we can’t argue about whether serving in the army is a mitzvah.
“Being a soldier also requires other Jews to pay for your living expenses.
Learning full time is providing full time protection to other Jews.”
Kovod, I was explaining why learning full time was different than wearing tzitzis, not why it was different than army service.
We believe that learning torah provides protection, but we also believe that soldier’s provide protection. The reality is that we (and every Jewish army in history) require both. The Hesder program of the religious zionists does exactly that. What is unfair about the Chareidi position is that they are not risking their lives but the Daati and the Chilonim are. Both groups are providing protection but only one group is ready to make the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of Am Yisroel.
The Karaim and Tzedukim are different. The Karaim reject Torah shel bal peh wherever it conflicts with what they read as pshat in posuk (which is almost always).
The Tz’dukim didn’t reject all of Torah shel bal peh, they rejected the authority of the Sanhedrin and the Perushim in expounding on Torah shel bal peh. There were large parts of Torah shel bal peh they accepted as evidenced by the arguments they have with Chazal in Menachos and other places. Tzedukim also had a very different view of schar v’onesh.
“benignuman: What you are saying is not entirely true. There was an article here on YWN just a few months ago about a Kol Isha problem that occurred.
Derech HaMelech,
That story was newsworthy precisely because such things are, b”h, very rare in the modern IDF. The IDF today is the not the IDF of the 50s or the 60s. There is no longer an agenda to “frei out” the soldiers.
Your comparison to women covering their hair is astonishing. We pasken there is a chiyuv for married women to cover their hair. The chiyuv of talmud torah does not require “toraso umnuso” but k’viyas itim. No one is saying that the chareidi soldiers should stop learning, chas v’shalom, it just won’t be their only occupation.
Performing the mitzvah of tzitzis does not come at other Jews expense. Learning full time requires other Jews to pay for your living expenses. Furthermore serving in the army is itself a Mitzvah (arguably many mitzvos).
Kozov,
Here is the reason to assume it is not written by Yonosan ben Uziel:
1. The Gemara says that Yonosan ben Uziel wrote a targum on Neviem but makes no mention of him writing a targum on Torah, which is strange considering how great Yonosan ben Uziel was.
2. There is no mention of Targum Yonosan on Torah anywhere in Shas Bavli & Yerushalmi, or any of the major midrashim.
3. There is no mention of a Targum Yonosan on Torah in the works of the Gaonim.
4. There is no mention of Targum Yonosan on Torah in any of the earlier Rishonim (the Ramban who appears to quote the Targum calls it Yirushalmi, not Yonosan).
5. If Yonosan ben Uziel, a senior contemporary of Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai, wrote a targum on Chumash, why did Onkelos (a student of Rebbi Eliezer who was a student of R’Yochanan ben Zakai) write one (remember this is before writing Torah shel bal peh become the norm)?
These bits of evidence are not iron-clad, but they are definitely sufficient to rid us of the presumption that it was written by Yonosan ben Uziel.
For those claiming the IDF is very hostile to Orthodox Jews, this is simply false. There are Orthodox Jews at every level of authority in the IDF. The entire IDF serves only glatt kosher. They have many staff rabbanim and they do their best to minimize cross-gender interaction within the Orthodox units.
Additionally, no one is suggesting that Torah Study be eliminated, they are only suggesting that only the best should make toraso umnaso, a situation which has been the norm in Klal Yisroel forever.
Kozov,
The citation in Rashi is to Pirkei D’Rebbi Eliezer. I don’t have a copy of PDRE so I can’t look it up, but it is certainly possible that Rashi had a different girsa in PDRE or that he changed it slightly to fit his pirush better. There is no place that the citation in Rashi is to the Targum Yonason.
Jacob Lew is frum jew. He will not violate Shabbos unless he is given a heter by his rav. Orthodox Jews have been Democrats for a very long time. It is only very recently that they started to change.
You might also want to try putting pictures of you and your husband in his crib so that he doesn’t feel abandoned.
We never let any of our children cry it out. My advice is to get the child into a schedule so that they are very tired come bed time. Meaning they must be up from the nap at least six hours before you want them going to sleep for the night. For some kids it might take 7 hours.
The point is that you get them into a schedule where they are falling asleep in your arms and then you just put them down in their crib.
“The children of a jewish mother and non-jewish father are NON Mamzerim.
Are we talking about that she is still married to the first husband?”
Popa, the children are not mamzerim even if she is still married to the first husband.
Machzir Grushaso is a lo sassei. Even if Bnei Yisrael kept some for of Halacha in Mitrayim they did it as “einoi m’tzuveh v’oseh” a concept which doesn’t make much sense for a lo sassei.
WIY,
No one knows who wrote it. Some people think it was written during the times of the Rishonim, some people think it was written in the times of the Gaonim. Rashi never cites it which is some evidence that it either didn’t exist, was obscure, or Rashi didn’t hold of it. Sof Davar: be wary of quoting any information from it unless you have an additional source.
The Targum entitled “Targum Yonosan ben Uziel” in our chumashim wasn’t actually written by the Tanna Yonosan ben Uziel. Yonosan ben Uziel only wrote on Neveim.
Reb Doniel,
The Sridei Eish’s shita that you are referring too wasn’t written as a l’chatchila. It was a limud zchus on the minhag in Germany and a kulah for a kiruv organization (like NCSY) in France.
To quote R’Moshe Feinstein “music can’t become tamei.”
I have never seen a source quoted from Talmud Bavli supporting the idea that a song can be forbidden solely by virtue of the character of its author.
Chulent,
Your rational for discounting the opinion of the Ashkenazi Rishonim is speculation. You are claiming that they were just self-censoring, but you have no evidence that or that in the absence of self-censoring they would have held Christianity to be Avoda Zara.
Is it not equally plausible that having more contact with Christians and possibly discussing theology with Christians, Ashkenazi Chachomim had a better understanding of Christianity than someone like the Rambam.
Whether Christianity is a Avoda Zara for non-Jews is a machlokes Rishonim. The Baalei HaTosafos (and other Ashkenazi Rishonim) held it was not Avoda Zara for non-Jews and the Rambam (who had much less contact with Christians) held it was Avoda Zara. The Meiri who was in between Sephard and Ashkenaz held that it was not Avoda Zara.
That is not Avoda Zara is the dominant position among Ashkenazim.
Shmendrick,
“Beribi” is not a first name. It is short for “ben Rebbi.”
I have long maintained that the only person you find in the Torah giving a double name is Paroah, who gave Yosef the name Tzofnas Poneach. Clearly giving two names is a goyishe zach.
I would like to point out that the same source preventing a Ger from a position of Srara (i.e. the posuk of m’kerev achica), is the source barring women from positions of Srara.
If, as I think is the case, a Ger can be a Rabbi, then a woman can be a Rabbi.
Jirishman77,
Note that the Rambam doesn’t say “Rabbi” in his list of things a Ger cannot be appointed for. Geirim, according to the Rambam’s understanding, can not be given any positions of actual power. But this does prevent the Ger from being in a position of persuasion. A Rabbi, as opposed to a Dayan, has no actual authority, no actual power. He can’t enforce his positions or rulings anymore than the average person.