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CTLAWYER
I am not deflecting nor living in the past.
I am addressing the glaring hypocrisy and utter lack of honesty.
Charliehall has taken to insinuating that there is crisis in Orthodoxy because most Orthodox Jews are pro-trump who has personally led an immoral lifestyle.
I am curious to know why this issue did not concern him with Clinton?
Let me get this straight for months now Pelosi has refused to negotiate at all.
She now comes to the table with a proposal that all Republicans ( and any sane individual) rejected months ago.
Trump says We are still uninterested not interested .
And he is the problem?
JacobLev,
It’s hilarious how at time’s the Lib’s claim that trump is bankrupt.
Other times he has stolen billions.
Other times his businesses are floundering.
Other times he has profited enormously from his Presidency.
Understandably they now very little about finances.
Recently the NY Times ran a ridiculous story about how a man with $2 BILLION in documented assets is in trouble because he has a 400 million loan coming due.
If you wish to talk about profiting from the Presidency.
Are you even aware of the story of Clinton who left office literally penniless and disbarred, yet became a multi millionaire several times over within a couple of years?
How about Obama?
Compare that to Trump who by any reasonable standard was in the exclusive billionaire class before assuming the Presidency, and has donated his salary in totality each year of the Presidency.
Again Charlie I will ask you,
Why is it not a scandal regarding Clinton?
A man whose personal life make Trump look like a scandal.
A man who was a featured speaker at this years Democrat convention?
So let me get this straight.
In one debate Biden claims aithoritevly ” I am the Democrat Party”
Then when asked if he ever called the Mayor of Portland telling him to clamp down on violence he response “No, I am a private citizen with no power”
Thats condemning violence.
Great he showed how it’s done.
Actually Trump Stated over and over again he is pro wearing masks when appropriate.
During the debate he not only stated it he took a mask out of his pocket to show that he carries one.
He is not pro wearing one just for show.
But who is Trump to let the fact get in the way of what you want his opinion to be?
I am curious it seems that a joint Press conference was held between one of the main chapters of Proud Boys & the local Chapter of BLM to jointly condemn white supremacy in all its forms.
The Proud Boys are currently led by a Latino (it seems) and a significant portion of the organization that Chris Wallace deems “white supremacists” are minorities.
I can not be certain of this since it seems what known as mainstream media organizations have not reported it.
So I am confused.
I am further confused about the fact that I heard that several of Trump’ senior advisors openly identify as Orthodox Jews including Ivanka Trump, Avi Berkowitz & Jared Kushner.
Adding to my confusion is the fact that it seems that Ivanka is called by the last name of Trump because she is his daughter.
Yet I was led to believe that Trump emboldens and dog whistles anti-semites.
Is that why he he is advised by Orthodox Jews?
I have gotten more confused by finding out that the widow of Stanley Chera recently held a fundraiser for Trump in her house.
This is really confusing.
Chera was an immigrant from an Arab country who died from Covid and he was an orthodox Jew.
I thought a) Trump hated immigrants b) he really hates immigrants from Arab countries c) He emboldens anti-semites d) He was the reason why people have died from Covid!Yet the Chera family claims Trump & their father were best friends and thats why they had this fundraiser.
This is really confusing.
And it gets worse.
I recently found out that Trump actually moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and the Democrats all told me that was going to start a War!
Oy Vey so many Israelis happen to be Jews I was really scared.
Now though Israel just signed peace treaties with two Arab countries, and I heard more are on the way.
This is really confusing.
But the libs tell me that really the peace treaties are dangerous.
So I am trying to figure out does that mean War is less dangerous.
Oy and then I found out Melania, Trumps wife is an immigrant and I am really confused.
Oh well.
I find it interestin that those who are pro Biden cannot give any reason for him.
Other then “I hate Trump in spite of the fact he is actually implementing normal policies and even though Trump is better at the Job but Biden makes me feel better”
So Yichusdik,
You are telling me that the reason to vote for Trump over Biden is because he would not answer a question Maureen Dowd answered him?
Or is it that i am supposed to respect Biden better because he admits that he will appoint Justices who will threaten my ability to earn a livelihood unlike Trump who will appoint Justices that protect my ability to be an Observant Jew in THE USA and ear a livelihood, but he will do it for the wrong reasons.
In other words vote Biden.
He is pro everything you are against and will implement it.
Hate Trump
He has pro the same values you have but secretly he agrees with Biden.
Yup that makes sense.As for Traiffs.
I understand Trade.
I own a business.
I manufacture products both here and in Asia.
Tariffs affected me negatively.
Yet while they did affect me and virtually everyoneelse in the industries I operate in negativley.
Virtually every person I deal with felt he was doing right by the country by putting them in place.Those who were in the fields in question ( which incidentlyy includes him as Trump has made numerous products in China) knew exactly the devastion that was wrough on Middle America by “experts’ version of free trade.
Yes there were materials not being produced here.
The factories that produced them were idle the towns that lived off them devastated, it was simply not cost effective to produce virtually anything in the USA.
Tariffs made them cost effective thereby allowing a manufacturing base to be recreated bringing back Jobs to the US and those materials could now be produced here.
As for drugs created from human fetuses.
I do not know the particulars of this drug. But I can categorically state that if you will state that Trump is a hypocrite for taking such a drug you wind up in the position of stating that most Orthodox Jews who oppose abortion are hypocrites.
I actually read Spencer’s tweets themselves.
Honestly Id did/do no know Carlson even reported on it.
GodolHodorah Do you realize what you wrote in one post?
You started
“Sadly, its become impossible to engage in rational dialogue, if the question become either “who is better for the yidden” or the alternatives are framed in totally extreme terms with little basis in fact”You ended,
“At the end of the day, we believe that the WH incumbent is so far over the line that it poses real threats to the viability of our democracy”.And to Say Biden is not a career liar strains incredulity.
This is the man who was forced to drop out of running for President decades back because he plagiarized an entire speech.
He has claimed to have gone to college he did not go to.
He has claimed to have graduated at the top of class when he was at the bottom.
He has claimed to have been arrested time and again when it never happened.
He in fact excused himself at one time by stating that security did not let him go where ever he wanted and he considered that being “arrested”.
He claims to not want to ban fracking when he is on tape numerous times as stating he would go further then that.
His entire story about how & when he met his wife and have been proven completely false.
During the debate he expressly stated that his son was never paid 3.5 million by the wife of the Mayor of Moscow which even CNN was forced to admit is “not clear” at best, and is outright false by any reasonable examination of the evidence.
He claimed that he had no knowledge of the spying on the Trump campaign something that has been proven false by all contemporaneous records.
And some how when he lies at every appearance he makes it is excused as a “gaffe” while Trump is called a liar.
And Biden is not a career liar!?
I also fail to understand why when Richard Spencer endorsed Trump it was National News and the story went on for days.
Now that he has endorsed Biden all we hear are crickets.Charlie
Why were you not “worried” about rabbinic Judaism when Clinton was President?Nor does it pain you that somehow Clinton was actually a prime speaker at this years Dem Convention.
So Donald Trump is criticized for not urging people to wear masks at the exact same time that Dr. Fauci was publicly urging people not to wear masks?
So the criticism of Trump is that he should have warned people not to listen to Fauci?
I am just trying to understand.
AnonymousJEw
Plus one on your comment.I would add that comparing Donald Trump to a “Class bully” is laughable.
A class bully is one who does not simply talk against people, rather he directly hurts others.
The President has done the opposite. While he may be a tad willful in tweeting he has actually benefited people.
He is the first President to decades to make real progress towards peace in the Middle East, saving thousands of lives.
He is the first President in decades to actually work towards implementing trade policies that allow hundreds of thousands of Americans to actually support their families.
He actually implemented Criminal Justice reform to allow thousands of people a second chance at life.
And he actually tried to save lives by this pandemic by actually banning travel from China & Europe (overruling Doctors who later acknowledged he was correct) He actually ramped up production so that even Coumo & Newsom acknowledged his teams work.
While Newsom has overseen policies that have devastated California & Coumo implemented policies that actually killed thousands of human beings.
I also find it absurd that now-a-days it seems that the left has taken the position that masks are the salvation of human kind they and only they stand between us and doom.
Yet in the beginning when Dr. Fauci knew the virus was airborne and had in fact advised the President as such he was aggressive against people wearing masks.
If masks are what saves lives is he not then directly responsible for tens of thousands of deaths?
My take on the whole thing is that the media as a whole are focusing on Trump repeated interruptions as a way to desperatley avoid talking about Biden’s performance.
a) Trump is accused of going dragging things down. when aside from interrupting he actually tried treat Biden with respect. On the other hand when Biden was pressed to actually ansewer a question he told the President to “shut up” he at points called the President a “clown”and other choice references.
b) Biden specifically refused to ansewer whether or not he would pack the Supreme Court or get tid of the filibuster “becuase that would become the issue”!?
c) Biden claimed “he was Democrat party” but then stated he did not call the Democrat Mayor of Portland becuase he was a private citizen!?
d) He bizzarley claimed to be against the Green New Deal then he was for it in the span of minutes.
e) He tried to take credit for bailing out the auto industry when in fact the main part of it was done by Bush.
f) When Trump was asked again about white supremacy Trump replied that he has no problem condemning it but would Biden condemn Antifa & violence from the left. Biden stated Anitaf does not exist.
I think that the media knows how exposed Biden would be if anyone paid attention to the actual substance of the debate Biden would be terribly exposed as such they have to cover by distracting with the pitiful “But Trump interrupted him!”
What each Godol say i do not presume to know.
But I would like to clarify one falsehood.
ObamaCare did not save any lives.
It will not save any lives.
I personally was sick many years ago with an extremely rare and complicated disease, There was/is no certain remedy to this illness and instead there are many expensive “gambles”.
Fortunately I had good insurance, the doctors took action and I b”h recovered.
They virtually admitted that they would not have taken the risks they took if I had government insurance.
Sadly I came to understand what this meant when another individual in my community also became ill with this disease, he had Medicare, he never recovered and has now passed on.ObamaCare gives healthcare and the illusion of care.
All it is doing is creating a system that is similar to Israel & other Socialized medical countries those that have money go to Asufa and receive real medical treatment while all the “regular” folk suffer.
In addition it is having the real effect of causing massive Doctor shortages.
Surprise people who are smart and talented would rather take a 2-4 year business track in MIT & make millions then slave away for 14 years to become a neurologist and then spend all their time fighting with red tape to earn a living.
I meant to state that while they admit to being trained Marxists they are not pro-communism is simply foolish.
just to clarify.
I did not allege that the leaders were anarchists (they may or may not be).
Rather that they are trained Marxists.To state that they admit being trained Marxists is simply foolish.
Charlie,
I honestly do not know what to make of your view on Iran.
It’s not just dangerous.
It is foolish and reliant on revisionist history.
Obama’s deal did not get rid of the threat at all.
Period.
To state Obama supported Isreal in light of everything we know is willful blindness.
It is sad to see what blind allegiance to a political party can do to someone.Furthermore of course the founding of the State was inextricably linked to Socialism.
The founding of the State was the main thrust of the Haskala movement which was inextricably linked to Socialism.
And of course the Gedolim did not object to Socialism per se.
They were busy fighting a war to rebuild Torah in the State that was being waged on virtually every front. The moral justice of the kibbutz was not exactly on the front burner.
Charliehall,
You are 100% correct about Israel being a socialist country.
In fact Bibi’s claim to fame and the reason for his enduring popularity is the fact that he is one of the first Prime Ministers, perhaps the first, of the State who actually has an understanding of economics.
For most of the States history the Prime Minister was exclusively a security expert with no real economic experience unlike the MIT trained Bibi
As a result Bibi is actually credited with finally destroying many of the socialist components of the State and unshackling the Israeli economy.
n0mesorah,
Please pay attention to what I actually write,
I do not expect a non-jew who is not bound by the Torah, does not study the Torah, and does not live by the Torah to live a life personified by the Torah.
However let us say we have a promising young athlete who has begun basketball training. He can dribble, he can run he can play defense.
However his shooting is terrible he is consistently short.
So the suggestion is made by a young man to lower the basket, we will change the rules of the game so that from now on his shot is on the money and he can become the great basketball player he is capable of being.
One coach hears the suggestion and begins to laugh
.
Sonny, he says. You can’t just change the rules of the game. The game is not limited to this one field and this one league. It’s international. The only thing you will ever accomplish by changing the rules for this one bad offensive player is ensuring that no player who plays in this league will ever be able to really become good, because he will have no idea what the real rules are.The example is crude but the point is sound.
Trump is morally bad so are most politicians.
But there is one party now that is advocating to change the rules of the game.
There is one party that is advocating to change our perception of morality.
There is one party that is advocating against what is accepted as right and just.
They are openly advocating to change the moral fabric of the country.
That is the Democrat party.
To vote for them to state that what they advocate for does not offend me.
n0mesorah,
I fail to see your point.so·cial·ism
/ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole..The socialist political movement includes a set of political philosophies that originated in the revolutionary movements of the mid-to-late 18th century and out of concern for the social problems that were associated with capitalism.[12] By the late 19th century, after the work of Karl Marx and his collaborator Friedrich Engels, socialism had come to signify opposition to capitalism and advocacy for a post-capitalist system based on some form of social ownership of the means of production.[43][44] By the 1920s, communism and social democracy had become the two dominant political tendencies within the international socialist movement,[45] with socialism itself becoming the most influential secular movement of the 20th century.[46] While the emergence of the Soviet Union as the world’s first nominally socialist state led to socialism’s widespread association with the Soviet economic model, some economists and intellectuals argued that in practice the model functioned as a form of state capitalism[47][48][49] or a non-planned administrative or command economy.[50][51] Socialist parties and ideas remain a political force with varying degrees of power and influence on all continents, heading national governments in many countries around the world. Today, many socialists have also adopted the causes of other social movements such as environmentalism, feminism and progressivism.[52]
To state that the most licentious president since Kennedy is Trump when Clinton is a recent memory and with the full knowledge of what is going on with Bill Clinton right now is a new level of denial of reality.
To focus on the personal individual lifestyle of Trump affects the comparable to the very real legislative agenda of the modern day democratic party is further evidence of willful blindness to what is going on.
n0m
You have a very unique view of Socialism.Because debating whether I have a right to the fruit of someone else’s labor is inherently implying that they do not intrinsically own the fruits of their labor.
I agree 100%
If an officer arrests an individual do not resist arrest.
If you do not do so 99% of the time any violence will be avoided.
If you do resist arrest the likelihood of violence goes up dramatically.
Since the person being arrested is creating a violent situation with an armed individual there is a great likelihood that person will come to physical harm.This harm could have been avoided simply by not initiating violence.
Charliehall
I fail to see where I stated the Torah supports capitalism.I did state that socialism is predicated on beliefs that anti fundamentals of Judaisim.
I fail to see how you disprove that.
Regarding Hilchos Aniyim.
First off the halochos of Hilchos Aniyim simply establish a obligation upon me to help out poor people it (probably) does not establish an ability for an individual poor person to demand from an individual support.
I do admit that this is subject to a dispute over whether it is mumon aniyim or not.
You are correct in respect that there is a moral obligation that derives from G-d but that does not ascribe itself to a a secular government,
Furthermore that obligation is predicated on my affording it.
Pray tell how does that translate into property taxes for school bills when I cannot afford tuition.Secondly the Halochos of Charity establish many thing in direct contradiction to the secular ethics.
Again that is because the din of Hilchos Aniyim a requirement on me personally to help poor people no to give money to a third party which then does with it as they see fit.
If I have a job opening and a poor relative is capable of filling it I there is good Halachic grounds stating I am obligated to give to him.
And that obligation is for food and clothing how does that translate in Sesame Street on PBS?
Purposely taking President Trump out of context to try and attack him.
Simple.
Socialism teach one that they the society i.e the government owes them certain tangible things i.e housing or healthcare.
These are not free they cost money and they require the services of others.In other words if you are poor and I am wealthy you basic rights are that I am obligated to give you a portion of my work and you have the right to it.
( in other words your basic rights are the ability to steal from me)
As opposed to the founding philosophy which stated that my inherent rights are God given and the government cannot infringe upon them but the government is likewise not obligated to grant you them.
In actuality a central part of the philosophy of the founding of the United states was that basic rights were “inalienable”
The government could not infringe upon them because they were GOD given, and hence if they made rules against your inalienable rights they were inherently unjust.
Flowing from that is the concept of Capitalism, that it is not my skin color or creed that decides my success it is the “capitol” that I have and as long as I invest it the way I see fit the profits or losses belong to me.
You do not have a right to my work nor do I have a claim on yours.
The above PSA was brought to you free of charge.
Are you honestly suggesting that if someone attacks Police Officer he should respond with a “fist fight”?
I have a better one.
Do not attack men armed with guns.
It may be hazardous to your health.
Regardless of skin color.
Huh?
if the cities were capable then they should do it.
As for whats going on in Portland.
Are you asking me to be a news service?Psychologically speaking there’s a basic reason why socialists giver less charity the capitalists.
the basic philosophy of socialism is ingraining in someone their “rights” and everyone else’s obligations towards them.
So it’s really hard for them to feel personally “obligated towards giving of themselves towards others.
While capitalism teaches you the obligations you have.
So when you see someone in need you cannot push your obligation on others.
As for “jewish Values”
A bsic Jewish Value is that Jealousy is one of the things that remove you from this world.
Yes some people have more.
Deal with it.Yes some people are smarter.
Deal with it.Another basic Jewish value is that stealing is wrong.
You are not entitled to other peoples money.
No matter how much they have.