Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Charlie Hall,
With all due respect you left out some facts, It is true that a growing number of Americans go overeas for medical care.
The Reason?
Medical tourisim.
The cost of treatment in America is prohibitive so it is becoming well worth it for insurance companies to pay someones travel expenses to have an operation overseas rather then here.
It is also becoming well worth it for Doctors to operate overseas where they can charge less money and take home more then here.
Why?
The cost of doing buisness for a Doctor in the U.S is enormous a typical OBGYN in N>Y must pay out 1 MILLION dollars a year in malpractice insurance!
Hence an increasing number of good doctors are choosing to operate overseas and treat American patients there.
CharlieHall when I know of countless Jewish organazation that are dedicated to ensuring that not just money but also lack of knowledge never stand in the way aspersons health.
If such organizations do not exist in the secular world then perhaps all those clamoring to destroy the current system should dedicate themselves to starting such organazations for the betterment of mankind?
Regarding current rationing, It is currently not illegal for someone to be provided with proper healthcare even if they are nintey years old it may be expensive bur it is possible. Those of us who have the proper appreciation of life can ensure healthcare is provided for one and all.
If the government takes over health care that will no longer be the case 9ex. England)which is real Pikuach Nefesh.
As for the quality of care, some of the brightest people went into medicine because it assured them of a comfortable living turning them into another government buracract will ensure they join Wall Street.
What about those of us that follow shitas HaGra and have the mezuza straight?
CharleieHall are you serious?
Practically every country that has “socialized medicine” does prctice rationing this is a fact not an opinion. The end-of-life issues that rise up in countries such as England are frequent and troublesome ask any English Posek who deals with such issues.
When one bears in mind that many of those who are running the medical agenda for the Democrats have spoken openly about rationing car (i.e Tom Daschle’s book) it takes an incredible amount of willing denial to not realize the dangers of placing matters of Pikauach Nefesh in the hands of those whose very belief in G-d is questionable.
Charliehall, it’s not to see that that you still stick to your guns in supporting the health care bil. However you still have failed to address the many problems of the bill including but not limited to end-of life care and health rationing.
It is critical to that one realizes that this bill potentialy opens the door to severe halachic issues many involving issues of Pikuach Nefesh.
what does David Pelcovits mean “it may not be observence in completley the way we like to think about it”, the last I checked there is only one type of “observence’.
Also those who would like to compare David Pelcovits remarks with the letter by Rav Aaron Feldman shlita are urged to obtain a copy of Rav Feldman’s book Eye of the Storm in which states his views on the matter.
Feif Un, I live in Lakewood and to the best of my knowledge the majority of Rabbonim called for the oilam to vote for Cristie this includes but is not limited to Rav Shmuel Meir Katz, Rav Forsheimer, Rav Osher Chaim Lieberman,Rav Aaron Zuckerman and Rav Simcha Bunim Chohen. While there were organizations that endorsed Corzine it is noteworthy that the Igud HaMosdos endored Cristie I was told this was a result of a conference call they had with Rav Yosef Rosenblum shlita.
Those who ask that we give sympathy to those who wish to legitimize Toeiva are dur to the fact that its a nisoyon are invited to look once again at the story of Dina and Shechem.
Rashi says clearly that what magnified the tragedy of Shechem was the simple fact that from the time of the mabul there had never beeen such a thing done.
In the history of Mankind there has been the nusoyon of Toeiva the biggest proof of this is the fact that there is an issur to engage in such behavior if there had been no nisoyon there would be know issur (alternativley the fact it is assur would create a nisoyon) yet at no time has there ever been a public discussion of it.
(Those who say there has been are asked to kindly state there sources)
It does not take a rocket scientist to understand why some things are kept hidden, publicizing something inherently legitimzes it.
Publicizing Toeiva gives a legitimacy on whatever level to the sole thing the Torah saw fit to call an abomination, it would seem obvious then that those who see fit to publicize it would ask Da’as Torah if it is permitted, if the gains they claim would come from such “discussions” outway the losses,
I would ask if those who had such a gathering did so L’shem Shomayim, if in truth they recognize the severity of what they have done then can they produce the Da’as Torah that allowed it? Can they produce the Da’as Torah that stated it is necessaty to do that which we have no mesorah for what so ever?
If the ansewer is they cannot produce the Da’as Torah then it shows they in fact do not comprehen the severity of what they discuss.It shows they have not done what they did as L’Shem Shomayim rather it was done because that is what pshycologists feel should be done.
Woe is to us who would toplerate turning our backs on the Torah in favor of a science brought to the fore by complete Kofrim (fread and co) Rav Gifter’s words remain relevant years later.
Bomb maniac did you mean to say “no reason” have you forgotten Monsey?
It seems to me that Rav Mordechai Gifter has been proven right once again
omis1105 beutifully said, however I would like to correct one small point.
The general rule is that a toeiva partnership cannot properly raise a child this is a fact. For numerous reasons it is crucial to a childs development that he have the combination of a mother and father, not two mothers or two fathers.
And to ansewer the obvious question , No a man cannot properly asssume the role of a women just as a women cannot assume the role of a man (incidentally this is one of the grave errors in the feminist movement and is a leading cause of the breakdown of the modern family unit, but thats a different topic).
Yes of course I am sure there are isolated exceptions just as there are exceptions to every rule.
The thing we must realize is that the Torah is the blueprint of the world, the world is created from the words of the Torah (as explained by Rashi in Parshas Bereshis) and therefore the world can only run normally as long as it follows the laws of the Torah.
Of course its amazing, that’s why it’s so dangerous
It seems to me that we are constantly hearing from people on the left that we must “get with the time”. How in this age it is impossible to shield ourselves from the culture surrounding us.
In fact we have heard that attempting to hield our homes may not be good instead we should teach our children about the world around them and how to deal with it.
Well if that the case then do we really want to raise our children in a society that condones toeiva and teaches that those who are against it are racist?
If we understand that we must raise our children in the environment around us then we must understand that we have an obligation to fight to preserve that environment in any way we can.
If we do not have the moral clarity now to understand what is wrong with allowing such an open toeva to go on in our midst, then how will we have the moral clarity to teach our children the eternal truth of the Torah?
Dear Best Bubby,
If you really want to be the best bubby, take the St. Moritz and get rid of it!
Bombmaniac you have indeed made yourself clear however you’ve neglected to define what exactly self-esteem is.
Yes, the balance you have spoken of is necassary and if you define self worth the way I originally defined it then you have that balance.
Self worth means that one realizes his immense capabilities and the fact that he was created for a purpose, a purpose that that individual alone can fulfill. If someone has that realization he automatically is intrinsically aware that he is not worthless, far be it he is in a sense “invaluable” for there is no one like him.
At the same time one who is equipped with a proper sense of self worth cannot possibly think that he is perfect for he is only to well aware of the immense responsibilities that lie upon him, for he must do what no one else can.
It is this concept of self worth that is embodied in the words “Bshvili N’Vra H’Aolam” and one who fully understands this concept can begin to understand the immense value that a Jew places on human life.
On the other hand self esteem teaches one that his individual value is not connected to anything whatsoever and as such inherently teaches one that he has the right to be conceieted for by his very nature he is perfect or close to it.
From my understanding it is for this reason that we Rav wolbe was so forceful in his denounciation of “Bitachon Atzmi”.
In light of this I would beg to ask that instead of speaking in generalities perhaps you can define specifically in your mind what is self-esteem, why is it important and where in Chazal is there a source for it?
Bombmaniac, thanks for the clarification,
The self-esteem that you speak of is it dependent upon one’s actions?
Meaning if one does no good what so ever should he have the same self- esteem as one who does do what’s right?
If your answer is that it is linked to one’s actions that the quastion is if one who does no good should have no self esteem, how will he ever get out of the rut so to speak? According to what youve written there is no way for a person with a lack of self esteem will have no reason to do good.
On the other hand if someone who does no good should still have a healthy level of “self esteem” then considering the fact that you define self esteem as healthy level of respect for oneself then why should he ever do good, he respects himself, and therefore finds himself worthy of respect regardless?
Bombmaniac,
You stated that self-esteem is a felling of “pride” in yourself but did not explain pride for what,
Yo stated that self worth gives you a feeling that you can gain respect from others without detailing how,
Lastly you stated that self esteem without self worth leads to one feeling conceited without explaining why.
You stated that without self esteem you will never feel worthy of someone elses respet even though you stated it is self-worth which gives you an understanding that you can get other peoples respect and failed to explain how that makes sense.
Bombmaniac I fail to understand how you anwered the specific issues I raised perhaps you can attempt to answer them directly.
And positivenayim I fail to understand where you picked up the notion that self-esteem is interwined with emunah, especially considering the fact that when Rav Shlomo Wolbe discusses the concept of self esteem he points out that the only intrinsic “bitachon” (the hebrew word for self esteem is “bitachon atzmi”) he knows of with a source in the Torah is bitachon in Hakodosh Boruch Hu.
Again I would urge all those interested in this issue to take a look at Rav Wolbe’s lenthly letter on the topic which is printed in the kuntrus of his letters published in honor of his shloshim.
Bombmaniac, you ask not to bash self esteem and self worth but fail to define any distinctions between the two.
In addition I raised specific concerns with “self esteem” the question is if you disagree with what I wrote why will you noy address the specific charges.
Perhaps a part of the problem touched upon by positivenayim is what seems to be a basic misundersantding that is somewhat prevalent of the words “self esteem” and “self worth”.
The term self worth mentioned by p”e is something deeply rooted in Chazal and is quite neccassary in proper chinuch. My understanding is that it connotates the basic need for a child to know the vast porential that is lies within him and there is something he and only he could accomplish “Bshvili Nivra HaOlam”.
Proper self worth is an obligation for when someone is truly aware of the amount he is capable of he must be aware that obligates him to fulfull his intrinsic capabilities.
Self Esteem, the way I understand it, is the opposite of this it stresses the inherent value of the individual regardless of what that person does. That is something which to the best of my knowledge has no basis in Chazal in fact Rav Shlomo Wolbe zt’l wrote a letter strongly condeming “self esteem” the way it is used in the modern world (see the kuntrus of Rav Shlomo Wolbe’s letters published in honor of his shloshim.
Self Worth teaches a child they are required to do as only they can, Self Esteem teaches they need not do for it makes no difference if they can.
No one in thiks thread has questioned as to whether or not it is proper to give prizes to children, in fact when one considers the fact that the Rambam felt it neccessary to write a detailed guide as to what are the proper prizes to give children it would seem to me that it is quite foolish for one to question whether or not it is proper to give children prizes.
What has been questioned it is proper to give children prizes and howe often et cetera.
I would also posit thst those who think that children of old were angels and if there parent hit them immiedietly felt bad about what they did and never do it again are severly naive, just ask your parents.
Bombmaniac much of what you write is correct but some of it is dangerous,
Ex, If a student looks at a Rebbi as “what makes you better then me, after all I’m paying your salary” all the positive reinforcement in the world will not help the Rebbi get through to the child. Period, that’s a guarantee.
In light of that it is incumbent upon a Rebbi to ensure he is someone worthy of respect and it is incumbent upon parents to ensure that their children are aware of the respect they must have for their Rabbeim.
As to the statement about Gan Eden and Gehenomm in my earlier post I already wrote about how this topic is written about extensivley by the Balei Mussar who are the first to talk about a need for a balance but a correct balance.
I would wish to reiterate that one would think it should be obvious that chinuch should be treated as college, meaning if one gos to school to become a doctor then the curriculum will be focused on preparing him to be a Doctor. Similarly chinuch is preparing a child to assume the obligations of being a Jew and therefore should focus on attaining such a goal.
This means that the focus of chinuch under no circumstances can be to ensure the child has a memorable childhood.
Please do not misconstrue what I have written to mean that I think a child should not have a pleasent childhood rather understand that I simply mean to say that one should ensure that the memorable childhood does not ensure a miserable adulthood.
bombmaniac while of course evey generation changes, don’t you think that perhaps in light of the increasing problems which are a subject of every jewish news publication or convention and include but are not limited to shidduch crisis, sholom bayis crisis, kids-at-risk, adults-at-risk, and drinking perhaps it is time to reexamine some of the “modern day” chinuch techniques that have become so in vogue over the last ten years?
While bombmaniac is correct that one should view the ability to keep the Torah as a privilege, one mustn’t lose sight of the fact that it is a mandatory privlege, not an option.
The Balei Musar talk about the fact that while it may be that “ahavas Hashem” is a greater darga then yira, still one must have a combination of both. When one has a relationship based exclusivley on ahava he may come to think that there is room to be a little less careful in his obligations due to the great love Hashem has for him, which will cause Hashem to be forgiving, which is not the case as explained by Nesilas Yeshorim.
EDITED
Well said positiveanyim
The Lakewood Va’ad has distributed a list of all the Senators in New Jersey alonf with their phone numbers and is asking everyone to call as many as they can to voice their opposition to this legistlation
While positveanayim makes a good point it must include the simple fact “chanoch l’nar al pi darkoi” each child is different and some may nee more prizes then others to grow.
However the main thrust of the question touches on the core issuesof modern day chinuch.
We ad “maminim bnei maminim” understand that the torah is a bill of obligations that are placed upon us and spell out what we are required to do in this world, in essence it is a “Bill of Obligations” the exact opposite of a “bill of Rights” consequently it would seem that true chinuch which at it’s heart is ment to prepare “lchanech” a child to assume responsibilty to fulfill his obligations should focus on preparing one to shoulder responsibilty.
With this in mind perhaps the quastion needs to be asked is modern day chinuch properly preparing children to assume responsibilty or is it more focused on ensuring a child is able to assume his rights?
It would seem that the ansewer to the question at the start of this thread would depend on what oine assumes the main point of chinuch to be.
I would venture to say that those who wish to state that the internet is not the place for torah do non mean to say it is the place at all rather that it is not the ideal situation.
I do not think that there is any disagreement that for those who have access and have no other way of learning Torah the internet is a tool that should be utilized, rather it is the person with access to a Rav and live beis Medrash who is to be encouraged to utilize traditional learnong methods and the boundless benefits that go with them over the internet.
On Benjamon Muller’s website (I think it’s BenjaminMuller.net but I’m not sure) he has a list of a bunch of common mistakes in nusach made by chazzanim.
Though one needs not add any reason to be opposed to Legalized Toaiva after it has been demonstrated that the Torah prohibits it, I believe it is worth pointing out that many of us are raising our children in this country.
We hear all the time about how hard it is to shield our children from the outside influences. Are we to stand by passively and allow ourselves to be forced into a situation where we must explain to our children why no, we are not racist, and no, the Torah is not backwards chas vsholom.
Dai Lchakima BRimiza.
EDITED
It seems to me that a lot of the discussion that went on here missed the main point.
While the exact curriculum that was in the Bais Yackov’s of Europe may be a matter of dispute the cause that gave rise to the dispute is not.
The Haskala was sweeping through Europe and the Bais Yackov system was founded to combat it which it unarguably did.
Nowadays though we face a growing trend of “at risk” and another of divorce and a lack of true sholom bayis, based upon this one must ask the question are the Bais Yackovs accomplishing their goals?
Peel and core as many yellow apples as you’re able. Put in a pot with an inch or two of water, and some lemon juice (to prevent browning). Simmer, and simmer, and simmer till the apples mush on their own.
variations – add sugar, and/or cinnamon sticks, and/or frozen strawberries
Enjoy!
Mrs. Ben Levi
No not that I recall Benjamin Muller it’s the one sing’s Yossele’s Kuh Keli on
To cantoresque, There’s a cd of a concert that Muller gave in Manchester with his sons where he sins the braisa of Rabi Yishmoel beutifully, He also does a great job with Gonchoff Shir Shel Haleviem (wich he completley redid.
Incidently he has a son in Manchester who I’ve heard could be better then him but I don’t know of any recordings he’s done.
It may be that there were a lot of chazzonim of the past that were frum but none can compare to Yosssele for the emotion in his songs (such as Ohr Chodosh.
Incidentlly I especially enjoy hearin Cantor Banjamin Muller of Antewerp for this express reason the emotion in his voice when he sings is palpable