Bemused

It’s probably not a good idea to knock other people’s jokes. Probably best to comment when we like them, and go on to the next when we don’t.

I’m still not understanding, even though you did try (in three paragraphs yet :). I don’t think the Yated was advocating that people should go out and kill someone. So for my question, whether or not we want others to kill, etc, why is it smug to call something a Gezeira or to say we don’t understand something? Why is it wrong to call something a Gezeria or state that we don’t understand? In what way were the Yated’s words incorrect, or “smug”? Thank you.

I think we’ll have to agree to disagree, Jewess. One nice thing about a forum is the diversity, and this is just further manifestation of such :).

Hey, just wanted to put in my less than 2 cents here, because I referenced this thread-topic in another thread recently:

Although cantorial music is not my cup of tea, I have family members who do appreciate it in some way, so I appreciate the fact that it can be appreciated!

Jewess,

I guess the same way one can flirt with an unknown individual on the phone or via email. Not too difficult.

I really don’t call it flirting here, though, as flirting is deliberate, and this didn’t seem so.

Mod, the inappropriate interaction (I don’t want to call it flirting) took place before your active modding time. Mostly, it took place in the time that CR action was going on till the wee hours of the morning.

The CR is a different place than before your active modding time (I say active, because for all I know, you could have been involved in YW since its inception 🙂

Nevertheless, I am assuming that this owner did this because he is a mentch, and not for mercenary reasons. If I were that owner, I could see myself doing the same out of caring for their efforts, and I would think the owner did that for the reason noted.

“It’s kind of hypocritical

to sit here doing something you claim is problematic while actually doing so.”

I try not to interact here in a way that is not tznius, so I don’t have a problem posting on this site. may make mistakes sometimes, and this thread was a good reminder for me.

??

NO ONE said posting in the YW CR is “problematic. Some posters called attention to THE WAY some dialogue was going in some threads.

It’s not “eloquent” to tell someone to stop posting; it’s simply rude. If someone doesn’t like a thread, that “someone” should be the one to stop posting on that thread. For a teensy example, if you don’t like the idea that a thread was dedicated to improving the tzius here, why did you continue reading, let alone post? Just wondering. I don’t have anything to add to the cantorial thread; it’s not my cup of tea, so I don’t post. If this thread is not your cup of tea…

I need to add that recently, and I don’t know if it is related to this thread or not, there has been a real turn-around in the tznius department, and there was not a single time in recent weeks or even months that I have been startled at the boy-girl banter here.

YW, I admire your constant efforts to improve this site- it has always been terrific, and keeps getting better!

bacci40,

Why does that worry you? Unpleasant thought, yes, but what is the worry specifically about?

haifagirl,

I was waiting for someone to point that out- I should have know you’ll pull through! 🙂 Perhaps Obama is just craving some snack? 🙂

Thanks for the laugh :).

I wish I had some advice for you…

MM-

That’s…disgusting. Sorry to be so frank. I’m probably closer to the age of your grandmother than to you. You can’t know that, so you can’t be blamed for that, but I’m disgusted at the use of such terminology for even the very young.

Regarding your “answer”, you stated the Gemorah in three different ways. Not once did you answer the questions of myself, mazca, starwolf, tzippi, and haifagirl (who is your partner in “polygamy pushing”, so I’d think you’d give her a bit more consideration…).

However, it’s ok. Really. Happy blogging.

I wish I knew more slang, MM. Or perhaps it’s a case of my ignorance is bliss? Whatever it means, I’m on other topics now, and I’ll leave it up to our Rabbanim and Torah leaders to guide us on such serious inyanim.

See you on other threads!

we turn to the next interesting thread- we as either in royal we or if anyone would like me to speak on their behalf (no charge) :).

EDITED

We all do enjoy the give-and-take here, and no not to take anything too seriously… But since you are not able to supply an answer to the obvious question, don’t feel bad. We’re not taking the information here as “hadracha” or Torah true guidance; it’s just an outlet for us, and once we see we won’t be getting an answer, we turn to the next interesting thread.

“The root cause is we have too many girls and not enough boys of the proper age. The “root cause” is because each succeding generation is larger and is having a lot of children. Perhaps we should have people stop having children for a while until things settle down? I don’t think that is a very practical solution.”

If I’m reading this correctly, this means you feel age-gap is the problem. Otherwise, why would having more children be a problem? So…if you feel age-gap is the problem, why aren’t you putting at least equal energy (pushing for 20 years) to advocate for AZ’s position; marriage within a closer age-range? This would significantly alleviate age-gap issues (as the number of girls being born in any time-range is not greater than the number of baby boys born in that time), and you would be addressing root cause, instead of byproduct of cause.

Hi MM,

You haven’t exactly clarified my first “error”, so how can I be making “another error”. Just semantics, don’t mind me…

Yes, women need Torah. Your response is not a response; is simply presents the Gemorah again, which most of us know. In what way did your last comment address any of my questinos?

I don’t think the moderators want me to copy and paste my question above- they have more than enough to read. So I will post just one teensy example again- the more interesting one: What if The woman is a ba’al Teshuva and her husband/children aren’t and he/they refuse to learn Torah. Can this woman earn Olam Haba by learning the parts of Torah that are appropriate for a woman to learn; by giving tzedaka to help pay tuition for the poor child of someone else; by keeping Shabbos carefully; be refraining from speaking Lashon Hara; by making meals for invalids; by saying Brachos with lots of Kavana; by dressing with Tznius; by greeting her neighbors with a smile…enough pixels.

So…Do you know the difference between “only gets Olam Haba if…” and “gets Olam Haba by…”?

EDITED

That doesn’t answer the questions I posed to you. Not sure if it’s about self-esteem, though…Anyways,I don’t think I will be getting answers, so I’ll give it a rest.

Shavua Tov

Btw, tzippi…

I hope you have been enjoying… I gave you a front row seat :).

“Bemused,Based upon your above remarks, you are questioning the validity of the age-gap argument presented by AZ and NASI. That is certainly your prerogative. In that case, why haven’t you vocalized your above concerns all this time AZ was presenting his case? Why did these above concerns of yours first surface with the polygamy proposal?”

MM,

I don’t know if it is a decoding issue, or a reading comprehension issue, but you seem to be having difficulty understanding a few words of pretty basic English. Not once, but about three times, I stated that I have no idea about the “shidduch crisis” issue causes, and have no insight to make a comment on it, let alone a determination. Shall I say it a few more times? I’m finally understanding the true value of copy and paste…

I don’t comment on AZ’s comments because I try very hard (and don’t always succeed) to avoid being a fool. A fool comments on issues he knows nothing about, perhaps because he likes to hear/see his own voice/words. I’m not saying anyone here does that, so please don’t get all offended on me. I’m simply saying that *I* prefer not to foolishly comment on something I know little about. I don’t know why there is a shidduch crisis, so I don’t comment. I admire anyone who tries to help people in shidduchim and otherwise, and that goes for AZ as well as anyone else who helps others, even if they are on the opposite side of the fence regarding age-gap, ie, they don’t agree with age-gap. Once again, are you ready? Here goes: I make *no* comment on age-gap- it is a subject with which I am unfamiliar. Kapisch?

If you cannot answer my question regarding why you are pushing polygamy rather than addressing root cause, I can only assume that a) you don’t understand the concepts to which I refer, perhaps due to a vocabulary issue, conceptual issue or other or b) you have interests in pushing polygamy separate and apart from the “shidduch crisis”, are using the shidduch issue as a vehicle to push your agenda through, at least theoretically, and find the “shidduch issue” a convienent way to deflect questions on why on earth, specifically, are you, haifagirl, and others if there are, “pushing for polygamy”. If you can’t answer this basic question, the “pushy for polygamy” seems pretty silly. “I want societal change in this manner but I can’t explain why” is not very convincing…

Have a good Shabbos.

“cantoresq made the reasonable assumption that what MM was saying was that a woman who is waiting for a husband to come home from the Bais Hamidrash is waiting for a full-time learner, ergo, waiting for someone to come home from work won’t warrant a place in the Olam Haboh”

Oy. Reasonable? It’s a wild assumption. Why on earth would cantoresq think that MM believes coming home from the Bais Medrash means full time learning? What shaychus? Do you live in a community in which most observant men are full time learners (because most observant men attend a shiur a couple of times during the week, or have a chavrusah/learn by themselves at designated times)? Even Lakewood doesn’t have such a large ratio of full-time learners to working shiur-goers (at least 25% are working, or so I’m told), such that someone would automatically assume a man coming home from a Bais Hamedrash must be a full-time learner. It’s a v-e-r-y strange assumption.

“Second, you insist that there are scholars and non-scholars who go to the Bais HaMedrash. Why make this distinction? If you have a husband who works and then learns after work, call him a scholar? He’s engaged in scholarship isn’t he? If he was also a part-time plumber, would you say, how dare you call him a plumber, he’s only plumbing when he’s not learning.”

Uh, it’s about semantics, not feelings. Scholar has a few definitions. According to Random House Dictionary, scholar is defined as follows:

1. a learned or erudite person, esp. one who has profound knowledge of a particular subject.

2. a student; pupil.

3. a student who has been awarded a scholarship.

Many wonderful and observant men don’t consider themselves learned or erudite, and being learned and erudite is not a prerequisite to being dedicated to a shiur or learning seder. The Torah is open to all, and every Jew has the right and privilege to learn Torah, regardless of erudition.

The second definition might apply, if the term is used conventionally to apply to men who go to a shiur or have a set learning time. I haven’t heard it used that way; feel free to disagree though.

Cantoresq’s comment was a mistake, you seem to be willfully misunderstanding my comments, and all’s well that ends well.

Have a good Shabbos.

Just-a-guy,

Here is some clarification for you:

MM stated: “The Gemorah asks “How do women merit Olam Haboh?”And the only method the Gemorah lists is “By sending their children off to the Bais Hamedrash, and by waiting for their husbands to come home from the Bais Hamedrash.”

Ok. We know that. Most of us have heard that at some point.

cantoresq then queried of MM: “So only women who married scholars have a ticket to heaven”? (approximation- his comment had been subsequently deleted)

My obvious question: What does “waiting for their husbands to come home from the Bais Hamedrash have to do with “scholar”? Many women wait for their “non-scholar” husbands to come home from the Bais Hamedrash, and are proud of their “non-scholar” husbands for making the time to learn Torah paramount, even after a hard day’s work. Cantoresq’s question was therefore offensive, in his implication that “waiting for husband to come home from the Bais Hamedrash” can only apply to a “woman who has married a scholar”.

Hope this clears things up.

“The problem I saw was there were a lot of single girls, and not so many single boys. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to figure when you have 20 hamburgers and only 10 buns, you make double burgers.”

Haifagirl,

What do you think is the cause for the problem you are seeing? Why would you be pushing for so long for such a dramatic change instead of looking for and addressing the root cause of the “problem”? Isn’t that the first line of defense?

If it’s “age-gap”, attempts at solutions are being made, if it’s “unrealistic demands”, more education and societal change is needed, etc. I have no particular insight into the matter of root cause, and therefore cannot suggest a specific remediation. I still would like to know why you are advocating for a “solution” instead of addressing the problem’s roots. Unless, of course, you are a proponent of polygamy itself, and are using the “shidduch crisis” to spur momentum for your project. Perhaps you believe in discouraging close relationships between spouses, for whatever reason?

$300 a month? That’s an awful lot of cleaning help.

haifagirl,

“Because I was told there was a problem. I saw for myself that the problem did exist.”

That’s what I would like to know. What problem have you seen? After all, “pushing for polygamy” is a pretty serious endeavor, and I would like to know why we should be looking at this. Thanks.