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Wow! mybat is she an only child or girl?
SmartJew said; “my friend, is currently working on a well written Jewish novel.”
I truly hope it is well written. It is ridiculous that while we have so many educated and over educated individuals among us yidden, somehow we cannot find some capable writers to produce some decent literature for our jewish youth as well as for the adults, that doesn’t sound like they are translating it from yiddish,
or that the attempts at captivating the reader come at the expense of hysterically worded sentences that lack creativity as well as depth.
I’m not claiming to be an expert, but even I, can pick up on the differences
which aren’t so subtle, when reading good literature, as opposed to
another suspense filled, page turning epic tale, which entails terrorists
(yes, once again) masterminding something,(probably terror)that involves Israel,
as well as the U.S. and somehow Rabbi Shmoiger Boiger, has the key to unraveling this mystery/thriller/best seller/fill in the blank.
Mod 80; “It fits right in with our general laxity in issues of integrity & morality.”
Sad, but true.
striving; said I guess I’ve “ruined” by reading secular books because now I’m pretty critical about frum literature.
I know someone like that too. This person gets too frustrated with the grammatical errors and they cannot read any of these books. I have no problem reading them, though I find myself laughing through many pages, and I did not get an Ivy League education.
mybat; empty?
shindy; good points, “encourage her husband 2 go 2 learn/shiurim. obligation to take care of herself physically & mentally so she can b there 4 her husband & children.”
It is important for the wife to keep herself clean & attractive, as well
the husband should keep himself neat well groomed.
I know i’m gonna get heck for this, but I heard, that generally speaking,
that the chassidishe women are more makpid on this, whereas the litvishe women overtime are less makpid. There are many exceptions, but generally speaking
they, the husbands seem to feel they let themselves go.
I believe in their defense, if this claim is true, it is not their fault,
because they are usually juggling multiple jobs and expected to take care of kids and run a home, while the husbands sit and learn. Please, NO loshon hora.
just let me know if this claim is false and unfounded, as I feel it might be.
telegrok; Thanks a lot for the interesting op. Thanks even more for the update,
this story gets funnier and cuter as it progresses, and I for one appreciate the fun
you poke at the one dimensional view of some ppl when it comes to shidduchim.
Al tarbeh Sicho etc B’Ishtoh Omru, K”V Beishes chaveiroh.
How is that possible if he never is in a situation.
Chazal mean even in a case where she’s over for a meal.
Al tarbeh Sicho! Not that one shouldn’t be M’kayeim Hachnosas Orchim.
WolfishMusings; If your still dating it’s not too late to get a shadchan involved.
Start saving up some money. that should make your marriage kosher L’katchiloh.
For an extra fee you have the option of making it Mehadrin min haMehadrin.
Chanukah is coming up, you might want to splurge.
Poster; I am not implying C”V that it was any less of a Chesed.
I am however, noting the distinction, in that he was a volunteer, thus expecting
and anticipating the possibility of his day being interrupted by a call to help someone in a jam. This would also make his obligation to help extensively greater,
as this is exactly what he volunteered for, as opposed to the Bochur who was
driving home from yeshiva. Perhaps he was exhausted and wanted to go home to sleep.
Nevertheless, he stops off to help these yidden. Do you think they noticed him driving by? I dont think so. Maybe He should’ve just kept on driving, not letting his Yetzer Horah put him in such a situation!! For some reason everyone thinks He should’ve
stopped. But why? Maybe it was the yetzer horah’s plan.
some of you contradict yourselves with the comments you post.
How do you know the extent of the conversation they struck up.
Perhaps it was done in the most appropriate manner?
who said he was shmoozing with TWO girls as you say?
The OP says “they made small talk.” Do you know what that is?
You see he was only interested in ONE of the girls. This is further proof
that he was pursuing this as a potential shidduch.
The OP states “they have a nice conversation and agree to meet for a coffee.”
Is this not how many shidduchim come to pass?
Boy calls girl, they have a conversation which leads to the boy to choose a
meeting place. Do we really need the shadchan to play broken telephone,
repeating, ” he said wednesday night at 7:30,” now it’s Glatt Kosher.
For now the shadchan has Kashered the words so that they are pure,
empty from any hopes of a large payoff, or false interpretation of the boys words.
you state “A “Thank you very much” should have sufficed on both ends.”
Are you saying the boy should of ignored his interest in this
girl that he met through Hashgocha Protis?
Actwolly, I purpusly wryte likce i’m a litell shikor so as not too intimidayt the reeders. bot I apreshiate thoughs calmplaments. 🙂
mybat,havesomeseichel, Thanks!
Tayereh MM; Thank you for your kind words. I also thank you for your Langeh Drusheh
on the various chazal on the taivos of arayos, and the gedarim one should have.
I am B”H aware of all this & much more. Though you are off topic with this.
What we are discussing, is the right for a man to pursue a potential shidduch
without the interference or involvement of a shadchan. I’m not talking about
just shmoozing with girls, hanging out with them or chasing them.
That is not ok. We are talking about seeing potential shidduch and pursuing it.
This has been done since the begining of time (besides for Odam horishon)
by many of our great and holy ancestors.
Actually, this very Parsha talks about Yaakov Avinu Doing just that.
He did NOT have a shadchan. There are many other cases but i’m not arguing with you.
The OP story shows hashgocha protis. I’m not saying that there wasn’t a better way
to do it, see my earlier posts. However to call it assur??!!
anonymrs; Good point! You are very right. Personally, my cell is always set to vibrate.
I can’t take it when i’m in shul and these Kalei Rosh,
come in without closing ringer. in middle of Shomneh Esrei their cell phones
start blasting away with all these crazy loud ringtones,
some even let it ring for a while. why they do not jump to silence it,
or why they come into shul everyday without changing the setting is beyond me.
I’m not talking about the guys who usually do, but occasionally forget.
I’m talking about the one’s who don’t even chap it is terribly wrong.
Oh and btw, if you answer your cellphone, girl or boy, while on a date,
and start schmoozing with your friend, it will affect you,
for being mentchlich on a date is number #1 priority.
More important than what you wear or how much you spend. At least to the majority.
So set your phones to vibrate and Hatzlocha Rabboh.
craisins; good form.
It’s hard to believe that some people here seem to miss the obvious differences between these two stories.
Phyllis;
you didn’t have to call him to thank him personally,
you should’ve thanked him in person, while he was there fixing your car.
in telegroks story the boy wasn’t in volunteer mode, he didn’t join a group etc..
just being a mentsch. She knew he stopped off randomly,(hashgocha protis)
not anticipating the possibility a call from what he signed up for,
he just got to do mitzvas chessed by surprise.
The Girl Appreciated this and wanted to repay him for this kindness, which is normal. For normal people that is. Hakoras Hatov, is a Chiyuv!!! As well as basic decency.
1) who said this guy who came to help Phyllis, was single.
was she expecting him to strike up a conversation with her , if he’s married??!!
Although he is a Chaveirim volunteer he conducts himself as a professional.
There is nothing wrong with that.
2)Even if he was single, who said he was interested in Phyllis or her friend?
That he should strike up a conversation wit them?
MM said; “The Chaveirim boy came special out of his way to help her?
How do you know it was out of his way? Did he not sign up for this?
3) He came L’sheim mitzvah, if it were two single girls,
or a 90 year old man. He volunteered with chaveirim to help any yid,
Not to get gifts. Although Chaverim’s organization wouldn’t turn down a donation.
4)This boy and girl were single and obviously like each other.
MM; do you suggest he should ignore this. Look it up, in Gemarah, Rambam, etc..
It is a mans job to look for his Basherteh, his Aveidah, unless he’s not an Ish!
There is nothing wrong with that!
See Mesechtes Kiddusin, Beis Amud Beis. ‘??”? ???’ ?? ??? ??? ??? ???
Are you disagreeing with Chazal?
Dreidel (or Kvitlach) with chocolate coins wrapped in foil.
The value of the coins is sorted in size and color.
The gold coins being worth more than the silver, larger coins being double
than the smaller coins.
Then at the end of the game the kids get to cash in their coins from their parents
for real money, (or a gift) while keeping the chocolate too.
the best advice I can give y’all is………………………………………
“SIYOG L’ACHOCHMOH SHTIKAH!!!”
That’s what I tell my shviger!
Nice fresh flowers, liven and freshen up a room, also a card with a personal
message of you wishing them well, Sometimes people express themselves better
when writing a letter, having time to put their feelings on paper.
Also there is something about the written word that penetrates
more, sometimes than your just saying it,
especially with women who are more emotionally in tune.
havesomeseichel; I agree with you, however, what
onlyemes means to say, in my opinion, is that after the boy calls to thank her
for the gift, and schmoozes with her & they shared a nice conversation,
the boy or girl should’ve said hey, lets tell our parents they should look into
this as a potential shidduch. Have it redt by his aunt as the shadchan,
and finished, no heartache.
when they decided to meet on their own, i’m not saying it was wrong,
but this girl who is obviously using shadchanim who work under certain protocol,
should know that it might affect her future prospects, and if she minds,
she should’ve avoided meeting until they Kashered it out.
1) Seriously redting shidduchim to singles is a segulah to finding ones basherteh.
2)learning Torah Lishmah
3)saying Tehilim with Kavanah, davening to HB”H
a)esp, Kapitol 121, Esah Einay
b)also 128, Ashrei Kol
c)also Lamed Beis 32,
4)being Mesameach Chosson V’kalloh
5)working on correcting bad Middos,
6)tikkun Chatzois, or tehillim, or Torah at Chatzois
7)being b’simcha,
8)having Emunah, despite the hardships
9)focusing on the good thing HB”H granted you & thanking him for them.
I know many other ones, I cannot guarantee authenticity,
but the previous ones are solid.
Some ppl in this thread are under the impression that breaking an engagement,
after the L’chaim or the Tenoyim requires a Get.
Absolutely NOT!
This Chasiddishe train of though that it is better to get married & divorced
rather than break an engagement/vort, Is ONLY due to the fact that their will be
Kepeidas, which is either side holding a grudge, due to emotional, financial,
physical, heartbreak, reasons etc.. If the agreement to break up is mutual,
and there is no grudge by especially the girl or boy, etc
and both are eager to give a shtar mechilla, It is Absolute Shtusim
to say in this case, that it is better to get married and divorced than
break the engagement. I am not including mystical opinions,
as i am not very fluent in Kabbalah, it is however my humble educated opinion.
” I assume lm; that someone was trying to bring the geulah closer back then as well.”
I do not condone this, as I stated earlier, though I think they had good intentions.
perhaps they weren’t as creative as yourself. Please review my prior comment with kavanah, If you would like to understand what I meant. J/K
Wow! Amazing story! There are so many thickheaded individuals in our times
who constantly miss the boat with their artificially flavored frumkeit,
minus the common sense which is included in our Holy Torah.
Very Choshuve bochur may very well be so, only on paper, whereas mentchliche tire changer, definitely practices the actual Lilmod Al Menas L’asos.
The only problem I see with this (and i’m slightly kidding) is that this may
encourage a massive amount of girls to stage flat tires in order to find their
mentchliche basherte, or to just to walk up to guys they think match their type.
cutting out the middleman so to speak.
Not every guy or girl can handle this in an ehrliche manner,
as most of the young teens who casually talk to the opposite gender have proven,
with the hanging out, that leads to not being careful with Yichud,
and not being Shoimer Negiah.
I know some of you will say “As a teen I used schmooze with members of the opposite gender and it never led to anything!” This is an exception to the rule,
and generally aside from just a hi, bye, are you next in like, etc..
casual schmoozing usually holds ulterior motives. If they are carried out or not.
I think I got off topic as i’m falling asleep now.
So if these people are with the program, they would look into this bochur to the rescue, and upon recieving good info should grab it.
This Chosuv on paper Bocher has yet to prove himself, and they cannot overlook
obvious yad HB”H, as there really is no such a thing as coincidence.
For religious yidden that is.
lm; great idea!I have previously heard of others that do the same thing.
I do not condone the following behavior, however, a few years ago I stepped out of
my car to feed the meter, and my meter, as well as the rest of the meters for two
blocks, had been spray painted on both sides of the clear plastic, thus making it impossible for the elite, talented, overtrained, intelligent,ticketers
to issue tickets. This also allowed others to park there without having to feed the meters, until the covers were replaced.
I assume lm; that someone was trying to bring the geulah closer back then as well.
I’m not comparing what you do, to the previous story.
That guy,(or girl) was damaging/defacing city property.
Although I appreciated his (or her) creative spirit of generosity.
Mrs. Beautiful;
How about the one where the guy pulls up a few minutes early rings the bell.
While he’s waiting for them to buzz him in,
He feels he has something stuck in his teeth.
so he inches forward to the nice shiny reflective surface above the bell,
which happens to be a video camera.
He opens his mouth and proceeds to try and pick it out of his teeth
using the bell as a mirror.
meanwhile the whole family is getting a show they will never forget.
When the poor Bochur enters the house, he wonders why the father has an unnaturaly huge smile on his face. He also notices the mother has run off to the kitchen in a fit laughter. After getting red in the face the father explains in between giggles that one of the kids just made a good joke. He calm down.
Then the girl enters the room, the Bocher smiles, when the girl sees his teeth for the second time today, she erupts in hysterical laughter, which causes the father to burst out laughing and the mother in the kitchen to joins in all over again.
It took a while for them to calm down,and after apologizing profusley to this bocher who is beet red & sweating nervously, they send then off.
To make a long story short, this bocher took her out for a very brief time.
droped her off & told the shadchan, NOO, to a second date.
I think one should have it on vibrate or silent, never answer it during date,
or check text. that;s what excusing yourself to the restroom is for.
unless you drank too much coke or pepsi. (depending on the lounge)
The only time it is appropriate to use during date is when your a)lost, b)flat,
c)accident, d)or all of the above.
If you answered d)you’re not getting another date!
I play the piano, im also play some acoustic guitar. I compose songs, but more as a hobby than for profit. Oh I also sing. music is a very important part of my life.
I cannot imagine being without it.
I am fluent in English, Yiddish, & pretty good in Ivrit/Hebrew.
I also speak a little Italian. A few years ago I was interested in learning
some basic communication in a few other languages,
so I purchase a cd that covers basic terms, greetings, also basic foods and beverages, how to ask directions, restroom luggage, etc. I think I bought it in Staples.
It was easy to use/learn and I was very satisfied with my purchase. You can learn at your own pace, and have it repeat words that are harder etc.. Good luck!
I can’t believe I missed this thread! I agree with jax. It’s kind of hypocritical
to sit here doing something you claim is problematic while actually doing so.
I would like to ask how it’s is even shayich to flirt in the CR. The main point of al tarbeh siycha im Haishao, is because of what it will lead to. In live interaction with people things tend to build and one thing leads to another. This is a serious problem.
chatting with someone in the CR, is not building, or going anywhere.
When talking for real, the person says his comment appropriate or not and it’s gone.
He gambles to accept the results if it was appreciated, or not.
Here in the CR it is
1)Cut by our wonderful moderators,
2)known that the comment is written in text & will not disappear after one writes it.
This keeps one further in check to consider ones words.
I have never seen any flirting going on here.
some person says a joke, gets an lol! that’s it. or maybe a wink ;-).
Thats it. The guy in the pizza shop near me,
either gives winks to all the women shoppers, or has a serious twitching disorder.
So It’s assur to go buy pizza?
One can never even meet anyone, or give personal info, even l’sheim mitzvah in the CR,
for it is not tolerated, and for good reason. After mentioning all this I conclude,
as my friend jax so eloquently put it.. stop posting if you have an issue!
estherh said;
“Remember for a shidduch: We are looking 4 partners 4 our children and not ourselves.”
I agree. Many mothers turn down a shidduch, not because it is not a good match for 4 her child, but because it doesn’t pass for what she wants as daughter/son in-law,
or mechutenista. That is why later when she find a suitable match for herself,
it doesn’t work out, cuz it’s nat a match for her child.
yoyo; I heard that getting rich is a segulah for getting a rich shver.
intellegent; I remember that. Whenever I see your name it causes me to chuckle! 😉
skates; I couldn’t agree more! thanks for bringing this to light.
It reminds me of the people who come visit someone when they’re sick,
without asking if it is a good time to come, maybe they are in major pain,
and at this time you are causing them uncomfort, or perhaps it is too late,
as they were going to bed being exhausted, then you come over and keep them
up for another hour. If your reason is that you care about the person,
(not about feeling good about yourself)
you make sure it’s a good time for them, even when being Menachem Aveilim H”Y.
These people it seems want to feel good about themselves, telling someone later
“Oh! I mentioned a few names to them already.”
I’ve seen this happen, I know where it’s coming from.
Although sometimes people are unintentionally insensitive.
YW Moderator-42; Talking about dizzy……..
Mommy613; Don’t worry! Believe me, he didn’t just decide to buy a pair of jeans
on his own. Knowing that this is not the kind of upbringing he had.
He most probably has a friend, or two in Yeshiva who bought/wear them too, and he
is just trying to fit in. I am not getting into the right & wrong of this. I’m saying this is more his friends, and yeshivah, where he most probably picked it up from.
Maybe the Yeshiva isn’t the type you thought it was, or this is an isolated incident
within the yeshiva. Either way you should confront him in a respectful way,
not bossing him, rather suggesting this isn’t the way he was brought up,
or the the way you want him to be. However making a big deal about it, or commanding him to stop, without his input, or him feeling it was your decision not his,
will not bear positive results.
ronrsr: thanks! has it only been a year?
After reading around 30 shidduch crisis related threads it feels like i’ve been here for years!
haifagirl: Now that you apologized, I can answer your question. 🙂
The Problem with Eating Stuffed Cabbage with Chopsticks.
When grabbing the stuffed cabbage with your chop sticks,
if you grab it from either end, the heavy meat filling weighs down upon the
folded cabbage causing it to open plopping the delicious stuffing out on to
your plate, table, lap, or friends lap, depending on your schlemiel, or schlemazel status. If you grag it in the middle, it causes it cases the stuffing to fall out from both sides, leaving you more room to breath, as the person’s sitting on your immediate right and left go to the restroom to wash off the stuffed cabbage off their pants or skirts. Hence the dilemma of eating stuffed cabbage with chop sticks.
whoa! that didn’t come out right! I must’ve been thinking in arabic.
ronrsr: I agree, there however there’s are many sfaradi, actually egyptian jews that are fluent in arabic.
jphone; Mmmm! i’m getting hungry.
mazca; See my earlier post, i think I was brief and clear about mens roles.
Mens rolls however is entirely another thread topic.
Do I have to do everything for you? Just look it up!
Then lemme know too. 😉
I think we should put the older girls in a real freezer, and put the younger boys in the bmg freezer, say for about 6 years, then we take out the older girls & presto no more age gap. (I realize that’s kinda corny, but i’m that sorta mood now.)
PY; Nice try! There is too many flaws in your proposal,
Like trying to eat stuffed cabbage with chopsticks, most of it ends up on the floor.
Don’t get discouraged though, for if you do not succeed at first try, try again.
Josh31, :-)!
mazal77: I agree, instead of bridging the age gap, we should bridge all the shidduch threads on this site & others into one site forming the Mega Shidduch Thread.
For by pooling together so many ideas we may actually solve this crises.
goody613; Good one! that is more realistic. 🙂
From the cheaper establishments I enjoy Subsational’s.
Also If ya dont mind the name ;), Carlos & Gabby’s has great food too!
The more expensive places, Wolf & Lamb, Gusto Va Mare, Le Marais.
AZ; Thanks for your warm encouragement, I will now cease to offer the girls ages 21 and under, to the 25yo boys and older. Also I will try to make a list of the older single girls I know of, to have handy in case something comes up.
(I dont think encouraging my buddies to seek out another Eizer,(rather Knegdoh)
will put me on their wives top ten list) So that type of proactivity
I leave to others.