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If a missionary comes to the door, do not accept any of their materials, even if you think it would get them to go away faster, and even if you intend to throw it out right away. No matter how “resistant” you appear to their proselytizing, the missionary will mark your address down for a “follow-up” visit if you accept their materials.
A few points that come to my mind:
1.) It is likely that many common restaurant inconveniences are not the fault of the server. Food coming late to the table or meals arriving at different times may reflect a kitchen issue rather than a server issue. Even mistakes in the order may be a kitchen issue. Unless the server did something obviously wrong (e.g., rudeness, inattention), I wouldn’t punish him/her for a problem that may well have been out of their control.
2.) A restaurant inconvenience may be a good opportunity to exercise our ability to have hakaras hatov and dan l’kaf zechus; isn’t that worth a few dollars?
3.) A polite word with the server may completely resolve the issue while avoiding the sting and loss of withholding the tip.
4.) I think stronger action (withholding a tip, complaining to the manager, etc.) should only be considered if I felt the problem was significant enough that I didn’t want to return to the restaurant in the future. Since I’ve moved into my present community which has numerous restaurants, that threshold for me has been met only once, and the restaurant closed very shortly after the incident, before I even had the chance to contact the manager.
“Victory for the Sun”… that names sounds Xian to me, as did a lot of the terminology Basket of Radishes used.
basket of radishes,
I’ve observed from your comments here, including the fact that you wear tzitzis “out” but not in the house, and denigrating those who tuck them in (which I don’t, by the way), that you view the tzitzis as a sign for others of your Jewishness. When giving the mitzvah of tzitzis, however, the Torah says ?????????? ????? – and you will look upon them. The reality is that the tzitzis we wear are not for others to see and recognize that we are Jewish, but rather to remind us constantly that we are Jewish and have an obligation to fulfill Hashem’s mitzvos. In that respect, I can’t think of a more important place to wear tzitzis than when at home.
Also, speaking as a person who also became frum in a tiny town with a rav and his family being the only other frum Jews around, I cannot adequately express how different it is to live in a community with other frum Jews. Being frum alone is like lighting a candle in a dark forest. Being in a supportive community is like joining thousands of candles together into a great torch that is so much brighter. Please try to understand that before you knock your fellow Jews for “conforming” in their communities.
Feif Un,
Out of curiosity (I’m intending to ask, not challenge), what does/would the Rav say regarding the maris ayin of putting items into a turned-on oven on Shabbos, thus giving the appearance of baking on Shabbos? I remember learning that a big part of the reason for having a blech, for example, is so your action does not appear to be cooking. I can understand that, by taking things out of the oven by hand, it is obvious that they are not above yad soledes bo, but what about putting them in?
basket of radishes,
I follow Jewish law that makes sense
Refraining from eating pork makes no sense to the human intellect, so would you throw that out?
Do you honestly think that you can sit in judgement of our Torah and decide for yourself what makes sense and what doesn’t?
You claim to be far from “reform”, but your ideology 100% fits the bill, or perhaps you are a Karaite?
Wow, this debate is surprisingly cantankerous.
Droid,
Can someone please explain why Rav Moshe Feinstein zt’l in Vol. 2 Siman 95 of Orech Chaim in Igros Moshe says its worse to take off a yarmulka when going into a movie theater than to c’v go into a movie theater with a yamulka?
When a Jew wears a yarmulke into a place where he should not be, he begins to feel very uncomfortable. At that point, he can do one of two things: remove the yarmulke, or realize that if he’s uncomfortable wearing a yarmulke in that place, then perhaps he shouldn’t be there and leave. My guess is that Rav Moshe ZT”L preferred the second choice.
A yarmulke is like a megaphone for the neshama, it’s an amazing thing.
Hopefully I’m not wading into dangerous waters when I say this, but the MPAA ratings system is not really in “sync” with Jewish values. A rated “G” movie, while considered innocent and suitable for children by the surrounding secular culture, often contains ideas and images that are antithetical to Torah concepts, such as children rebelling against parents, shallow mindsets, immodest dress and behavior, etc. I know there are some films out there that may be fine for many, but we cannot rely on the MPAA ratings to protect our values.
I forgot to mention that the reason I agree that you shouldn’t say anything in the shiur case (unlike the free item case I imagined above) is because of the niceness of what the shul is doing.
In other words, I feel that your disappointment is justified, but given that the shul is going out of its way to do something nice for the community, it’s a good thing that you cut them slack.
I think you do have justification for feeling disappointed, though given the fact that the shiur was free as a public service, and the possibility that there may have been a miscommunication between the organizers and the presenter, I think you are also correct that you probably shouldn’t say anything.
I feel that the reason you may question whether you have the right to feel disappointed comes because what the shul is doing, offering a free shiur to the whole community plus dinner, is a very nice, upright thing to do. That factor acts as an emotional counterweight to your disappointment.
So here’s a parallel situation. Suppose I advertised in a paper that I wanted to give away a certain rare item for free . You have been interested in acquiring that very item for some time, so you make a long schlep over to my place to get the item (let’s assume you didn’t call to confirm, but somehow knew the item wasn’t taken yet). When you arrive, I say that I’ve changed my mind and want to keep the item, but here’s a different item for free that has the same monetary value. Would you feel disappointed? Would you have the right to? After all, your time was spent in getting there.
In the above case, I wouldn’t think “damages” should be paid, but a statement of “I came a long way and unfortunately this wasn’t the item I was expecting” followed by an apology to you would seemingly be justified. After all, it was my advertisement that was responsible for bringing you out.
The Goq,
Yes the everglades can be very bad for you dont swim in them
The Everglades are fine, it’s the gators, snakes, and leeches in the Everglades that’ll getcha. 🙂
ZeesKite,
For some reason, I think that most moderators shy away from undoing changes made by another moderator. For example, if one moderator rejects a post, it’s unlikely that another moderator will come and unreject it. There may, however, be a way around this in the case of your subtitle.
Try posting to the request-a-subtitle thread from a while back, and specifically state what you want your subtitle to be. That way, the moderator won’t be “undoing” another moderator’s changes, but rather fulfilling the wishes of the user.
To all:
As a side note, I read in the news that a Goy who is 51 just got married to a 16 y.o. girl. And Goyim have no Chiyuv to get married!
And we want to base our decisions on what the goyim do why?
minyan gal,
Avram: Am I correct in assuming that you are a meteorologist?
Yes. I am not a television weathercaster, however, nor do I work for a television or radio station.
We were actually learning this sugya in my gemara shiur recently.
There is a difference between V’sein Bracha and Ya’aleh V’yavo, in that the former is said during the “middle” supplication portion of the Shemoneh Esrei, while the latter is said as part of the final three brachos (e.g., R’tzei through the end of the tefilla). Thus, for V’sein Bracha, you can make it up through Shomeah Tefilla, but afterwards you must repeat your tefilla. By Ya’aleh V’yavo, you can make it up as long as you have not finished your tefilla. If you finished, then you must repeat.
The Gemara has a discussion clarifying what the end of the tefilla is. It could be at the end of the bracha of Shalom, when you take three steps back, or at the end of your personal supplications if you have a minhag to add them. A further discussion is made regarding supplications before the three steps vs. after the three steps. The last opinion stated holds that customary supplications made before the three steps back (e.g., Elokai n’tzor) are considered part of the tefilla, and thus you can go back to R’tzei and say Ya’aleh V’yavo if you remember during Elokai n’tzor, but once you take three steps back, you have to repeat your Shemoneh Esrei, even if you haven’t said Y’hi Ratzon (the supplication after the three steps) yet. We didn’t discuss this in the shiur, but I would imagine that the above wouldn’t apply to supplications that you don’t normally say, even if you said them before the three steps. I have a recollection that the Artscroll says to repeat if you’ve said Yih’yu L’ratzon (the final sentence of Elokai n’tzor), which would make sense given the above.
One big exception to this is the Ya’aleh V’yavo of ma’ariv on Rosh Chodesh. Here, you don’t go back to R’zei, even if you remember in the very next bracha!
I have not yet learned the answer to the second question (how late can you repeat if you remember later), but since your first tefilla did not “go up”, then I don’t see why you couldn’t say another Shemoneh Esrei if you still have time – as opposed to waiting until the following tefilla, since a tefillah bizmana is better than a “make up” tefilla. I’ll ask a question about it at my next shiur!
One of the few jobs you could have that being wrong won’t cause you to lose your job. I wonder if managers even have to do annual performance appraisals
Actually, any forecast can be quantitatively verified, so managers can indeed see who is skillful and who is not.
The problem is, meteorologists issue probabilistic forecasts (50% chance of rain) that the public interprets as deterministic (it WILL rain), so when it doesn’t rain, the meteorologist is “wrong.” Better communication of forecast data to the public is a big concern of meteorologists.
Given the Alabama tornadoes a while back as an example, meteorologists in Norman, OK, indicated a risk for a severe weather/tornado outbreak 5 days in advance. The day of the outbreak, they issued a “high risk” outlook for violent tornadoes, and issued “Particularly Dangerous Situation” tornado watches. When the tornadoes developed, I think there was an average of more than 20 minutes of warning before the storms arrived. I’d say that was a pretty good forecasting job.
I’ll admit though, I am biased.
Sweet corn (the type we boil or grill to eat as “corn on the cob”) I believe is a different variety than most of the stuff you see growing in the vast corn fields of the midwest (a big component of which is animal feed).
It doesn’t seem to me that real-brisker and Joseph have matching posting styles.
gefen,
why is it not honest to have more than one screen name? this is all supposed to be anonymous anyway. so what’s the diff?
A user with multiple screennames can hijack forums – giving the impression that the “masses” hold one view, for example, or attacking an opposing viewpoint through use of a straw man sockpuppet (e.g., creating a username that “holds” the opposing viewpoint but makes stupid, irrational, or hateful comments and arguments, with the goal of stirring up animosity towards that viewpoint through guilt by association).
This is (mostly) an anonymous forum with respect to the real world, but it is not anonymous within its own context – users tend to associate each screenname with a unique individual, so if someone uses multiple screennames, he dishonestly creates the impression that multiple people are posting.
minyan gal,
Well, I just checked the Weather Channel. There is a picture of the sun with raindrops beside it. So………..it will be sunny with a chance of rain OR rainy with a chance of sun.
Precipitation forecasts are probabilistic due to uncertainty. Behind that sun with raindrops (understandably confusing – not the National Weather Service’s fault, though, rather the Weather Channel’s) is a forecast that might read something like:
Today: Partly cloudy with a 40% chance of showers and thunderstorms, mainly after 3pm. High in the upper 80s.
What this forecast means is that at any given location in the forecast area, there is a 4 in 10 chance of getting rain, and the possibility of this rain will start around 3pm. It’s not as satisfying as a simple yes or no to the “will it rain” question, but when dealing with summer time convective patterns, some areas will get rained on while others do not, so this is the best forecast possible.
These forecasts can still be used for decision making. For example, I usually carry a small umbrella in my bag on weekdays. If the rain chances are 50% or more, I might consider bringing a larger umbrella that I have to carry by hand, or a poncho that takes up space in my bag. If the rain chances are 80% or above, perhaps I’d drive instead of walking, or reschedule outdoor plans, etc.
I definitely recommend reading the text portion of the forecasts… you get much more information than from the cartoon sun and clouds.
From the OP:
Do you try to find a Minyan or just daven alone?
That would depend on both the trip’s required schedule of events and the availability/closeness of a minyan. For example, if I didn’t have a rental car and the closest minyan was driving distance only, I would most likely not fool with an unfamiliar public transit system to get there.
Do you bring food or buy on the road? (even if there is no kosher restaurants you can always find plenty of Kosher food at a grocery store with the OU on it)…
I’d map the location where I was staying before leaving to gain familiarity with the local grocery stores. I would also bring supplies.
What happens if you have to go out to dinner with a client and there is no Kosher restaurants around?
I would request to have the meeting location at the hotel/office. Fortunately in my work, we don’t have business lunches/dinners like that, and if I’m invited, I can politely refuse or change the locale per my organization’s protocols, so I’ve never had to ask a shaila.
Shaking hands with the opposite sex in a business setting?
I would avoid it.
Note that these are my personal answers, not a directive for others.
WolfishMusings:
Joseph:
Has maris ayin been repealed from our laws?
Why? Did you really think that I was grilling George Foreman in the grill? Would anyone think that?
It seems apparent to me from the context that Joseph was referring to entering a non-kosher restaurant, not using a portable grill to prepare kosher meat. So unless you were grilling some meat on your portable grill and then bringing it into a non-kosher restaurant to eat, I don’t think he was referring to you.
popa_bar_abba,
This is not a contest.
(Chew on that one)
I.e., you are not contesting mewho’s answer?
The Holocaust Museum Cafe is not kosher, but there are sealed kosher products (e.g., parve sandwiches, noodle salad) available in the cafe that were brought in from a kosher caterer. There are also things like sealed bags of chips (OU) on sale at the cafe. Make sure to check for the seal on the sandwich, as the cafe serves similar products that are NOT kosher. Many of the cafe staff are aware of the issues, and can help steer frum customers to the right stuff.
Eli’s is a great meat restaurant in the District.
The largest frum communities in the DC area are in Silver Spring, and there are a larger variety of shuls and kosher restaurants in Silver Spring and Rockville (to the west), some of which provide kosher sukkos.
A good resource for any Jewish traveler to the DC area is the Washington Vaad’s (capitol k) Web site (just Google Washington Vaad and you’ll find it). They provide a list of all Vaad supervised establishments and a list of affiliated shuls.
popa_bar_abba,
Is this thread discussing whether we think men should be at high school girl’s graduations; or whether we should be making fun of and criticizing people who think one way or the other; or whether people who think one way or the other and run schools are bad people if they impose their view on the school they run?
Yes:-)
WolfishMusings,
While I personally would disagree with the decision to restrict men from a graduation, assuming there were no performances or the like, and similarly I would disagree with “photoshopping” out pictures of modestly clad women in a newspaper, I think that it’s possible that you are working with a different definition of “improper thoughts” than those who are disagreeing with you.
A question: suppose a large group of healthy, normal men were shown two pictures, one of an attractive woman, and one of a tree. Following this, they are polled on which picture they liked better. Or, better yet, film their eyes and record the length of time that they focused on each picture. Which picture do you think would “win”?
Another question: why don’t advertisers put pictures of trees next to sports cars they are selling?
These realities are part of being a normal man; however, as Jews, I think we should attempt to keep all of our focus solely on our wives, since that is where kedusha and appropriateness are found.
Maybe I’m being hypersensitive, but your tone and style seems a little accusatory?
You juxtapose my words as if there is some contradiction or new revelation from my later words. I thought it was clear that my first post was not a direct translated quote.
I did not intend to accuse you of passing off your paraphrase as a literal translation, and I’m sorry that my tone came across as accusatory to you. I quoted the portion of your OP that I wished to discuss, and then I quoted your later words because they contained the best representation of what I objected to (I paraphrased…[but] take it up with him).
In any event, I don’t have a ????, and it is really hard to find it on hebrew books, since they have a really old edition.
Why don’t you put it up? It is in breishis.
I’m in the same boat as you, probably more so since I’ve not heard of these comments, but since I’m not making the “disturbing” assertion, the burden of proof is luckily not on me:-)
BTW, on a more accusatory note (ha ha)… what do you make of the pasuk in Parshas Emor which we just read last week, Vayikra 24:10, which makes a reference to an isha Yisraelis?
popa_bar_abba,
He says that Hashem did not care as much when making chava, because she is just there to assist odom. That is why women have more health problems than men, and more day to day issues. (or month to month).
This to me is the most disturbing one.
And later you said:
I’m just paraphrasing what he says. Take it up with him.
A paraphrase is not a literal translation. It is a rewording done usually to explain another’s concept in one’s own terms. Are you sure you haven’t interjected your own interpretation of the Ralbag’s comments into your paraphrase? Perhaps you can post the actual text of the comments?
Specifically, do you think that Ralbag meant to say that Hashem would create something “buggy”, G-d forbid, due to lack of care (i.e., attention to detail) in the “process”, which implies fallibility? Somehow I don’t think so, but that is what your paraphrase suggests. I would think that the Ralbag would agree that every aspect of Hashem’s creation was done purposefully.
Healthy women in general experience more physical pain and weakness than equivalently healthy men due to their makeup. I don’t think anyone here would disagree with that statement. That this is related to a woman being a helper against Adam makes for an interesting discussion. I don’t see why misogyny needs to be injected into that discussion, however.
WolfishMusings,
Oy, so that’s why my wife said I didn’t understand her. Next time I’ll bring home 6 and all will be well:-)
In reality, if we wrote the code literally per her request, the “get 6” would not act on a variable, so some interpretation is needed.
Clairvoyant,
When I ran her request, I returned 7 cartons of milk:-)
The pseudocode for her request:
totalCartonsMilk = 1 # She asked to get 1 carton of milk separate from the if-statement.
if(eggs) {
totalCartonsMilk = totalCartonsMilk + 6
}
return totalCartonsMilk
Did he show other signs of disinterest (distraction, no eye contact, short responses, etc.) or was it just the yawning that was “off”?
I have asthma, which worsens in the springtime, and one of my prodromal symptoms is excessive yawning/sighing as I work harder to get enough air. Yawning from shortness of breath can also be a symptom of anxiety.
I’ll be bringing matza pizza to the office on a semi-frequent basis until the matza runs out (some time before Shavuos, likely earlier this year). I have enjoyed some kitniyos today, however.
Sounds like a minhag that can spare some hurt feelings. Prevents the situation of Reuven Lo-Gebrokts turning down an invite from Shimon Gebrokts, but accepting an invite from Levi Kol-haChumros, hurting Reuven’s feelings in the process.
We personally do invite and get invited for Pesach meals. If we feel that questions need to be asked, we ask them openly.
However, sometimes that is how I am made to feel.
By whom? Posters in this forum? People in the real world? I know none of us has a full picture of your experience, but it seems from your writing that a lot of the “my way or the highway” attitudes that appear to trouble you so much originate from teenagers or teenagers-at-heart. From dealings with teenagers in the present day to high-school experiences you’ve had. I never had the opportunity to attend a Yeshiva for high school; my only experience is with a public school. It seems, however, that there are unfortunately some common attitudes between both environments. For example, in a public school setting, one who does not wish to be ostracized must follow the clothing and other “minhagim” of the “in crowd.” B”H in the Yeshivos decent clothing and lofty pursuits are what’s considered “cool”, but despite that I do feel that the “in crowd” vs. “out crowd” attitude must go.
When my family and I first moved into our community, we met some extremely warm and friendly people. We also had some unfortunate experiences, rudeness, standoffishness, etc. The latter was extremely scary to us at first, since we were still relatively new to the “religious scene”, but we talked extensively with our Rav and let him guide us. We have B”H made some dear friends from the warm and friendly group, and we stay out of the way of the rudeness (and I believe that if they truly knew the effects of their words or actions on us, they would have acted differently). If we encounter a situation where someone tells us, “don’t you know that you should X”, or “I think the Y you are doing is wrong”, we thank them for the information and then take it to our Rav if needed and ask him what we should do.
Ultimately I have learned that most people are more concerned with what I or others think of them than vice versa.
I do have emotions and sometimes act very strongly on them, even if the end result is not completely logical. Consider it a failing on my part.
I don’t think emotions are a failing. Neither is all illogical behavior necessarily a failing. It was just saddening to me to sense that you felt hurt by a Yeshivish person or persons, and were coming to YWN to try and get others to heap more coals onto yourself.
No one has said that here, so obviously I cannot trot that out.
I was referencing a previous thread about loud and out-of-sync davening. In retrospect, I probably should not have brought that into this discussion.
It’s not that. Heck, the shul that I daven in when there is laining is a largely yeshivish-style shul with no talking… and I have never once ranted against it. On the contrary, it’s a warm welcoming atmosphere where people respect each others’ davening, do not talk or disturb and where I can actually hear the chazzan when he speaks.
That’s amazing that you have found a shul like that. I wonder if it would be worth it to trade in stress for footsteps and go to that shul for all of your davening on Shabbos?
Or perhaps get an associate membership at the other shul so you feel more empowered to say something about the atmosphere?
In other words, it’s not the fact that it’s yeshivish style… it’s the fact that they talk during davening. Had they been a chassidish shteeble, a Young Israel, an MO shul or anything else, I’d be just as bothered.
I apologize for mis-reading you. I interpreted your analysis of the attitude in that shul to be based on this portion of your opening salvo:
I know that you […] wear proper hats and jackets during davening and could easily quote gemarahs, rishonim and achronim that I’ve never heard of.
When we’re talking about a typical major or minor scale, the octave falls by the 8th note of the scale.
E.g., a C-major scale consists of:
C D E F G A B C(one octave above your starting C)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Now, if we’re doing a whole tone scale, there’s only 7. If a half tone scale, 13.
observanteen,
Speaking only from my personal experience as a BT, my neshama was pulling at me since I was a kid; however, misconceptions about Orthodoxy and Orthodox Jews was a huge barrier. I literally feared Orthodox Jews – I thought they looked down on me, considered me inferior, and wanted nothing to do with me.
It was a combination of finding resources and learning (finding authentically frum books is difficult if you are not frum! Non-frum sources have a lot printed on frumkeit, unfortunately) and small religious interactions with Orthodox Jews, culminating with approaching an Orthodox rabbi, that helped chip away the barrier for me.
So I agree with you, perhaps non-frum Jews don’t need a lecture, they don’t need to be told that they are losing their chelek in Olam Haba because they do X (when they honestly don’t know of X, even if told). What they need is a smile, a hand to guide them through a mitzvah and a hearty “Amein” to show them that the mitzvah meant something to Hashem and to Orthodox Jewry.
WolfishMusings,
Please forgive me this rant on your rant…
Do you HONESTLY believe that there is an obscure heter for talking about mundane subjects during davening? Yes or no?
I don’t think you do, otherwise, you would not have titled this thread a rant. Please answer, but I’m guessing you’re not going to bother responding to this post.
Almost everyone here could see the point you were trying to make, and it was a good point, but then you branched off into the absurd.
I have tried to make sense of your polemical style, which follows a pattern of:
1.) I am bothered by [insert a clearly halachically wrong behavior] that is done by people who are makpid on the external Yeshivish customs (e.g., hat and jacket).
2.) I am not makpid on those same external Yeshivish customs.
Left here, it is a fairly strong attack against hypocrisy. Those same people who would never come to davening without a hat and jacket because it would be “wrong” (not adhering to a custom) then talk in shul (an outright aveira). Touchee! But then you invariably continue:
3.) Since those who wear a hat and jacket are superior to me because I don’t wear a hat and jacket, then [insert a clearly halachically wrong behavior] must be somehow correct and I am too unlearned to see how.
OK, a somewhat strange thing to say, but it still fits into your attack on hypocrisy if taken as dripping with sarcasm. Touchee again! However the switch to the “twilight zone” occurs:
4.) Drop points 1 and 2 and argue that you are completely and honestly serious about point 3.
Why do you do this? You as well as the rest of us know what the gedolim say about talking in shul (if you didn’t, which I doubt, an example from the S”A was posted above), so your contention that you honestly believe there is actually a heter for talking in shul collapses like a house of cards. So I am left with the question: why do you want me, a reader, to accept your point 4?
I’m beginning to suspect that you’re hoping someone not paying close enough attention falls into the logical snare you have set, and asks or tells you something along the lines of: if you really believe that these men have some sort of heter for talking in shul, then perhaps you should not be bothered by the talking? That statement is the logical endgame of this absurd line of thinking, but it is fundamentally wrong because the premise is wrong.
Then three months from now, when someone else posts a rant against talking in shul, you can triumphantly trot out: I posted the same thing three months ago, and was told that I was wrong and to stop being bothered by it!
I am sorry that you have had so much trouble at this Yeshivish-style shul. I really, honestly believe that some of the “stuff” you are encountering there is not representative of the entire Yeshivish world. I also don’t feel that the Yeshivish world is “out to get you” despite what you may or may not believe. If it was, you wouldn’t have to lay such elaborate traps to get the condemnation that you seek as proof. On the contrary, you seem well liked in this forum. I enjoy most of your posts, which is why I think I get so bothered by threads like this one.
All the best!
WolfishMusings,
I’m sorry you have had two bad experiences at shul. I think you did the right thing by moving to a different location to daven. It might be best for your sanity and blood pressure to try and avoid sitting near this person again when davening at this shul.
Just a thought… are you sure this fellow is free from any emotional or mental handicaps? I once was davening at a shul during Yom Kippur (with services in a temporary structure), when a man came in either quite late, or had left his seat for an extended period of time, and screamed at another man, “You are sitting in MY SEAT!!!” and muttered more under his breath. As for me, my breath was taken away at the meanness displayed… on Yom Kippur no less! After glancing at him a few more times and thinking about it, I decided to myself that the man was probably mentally handicapped in some way and wasn’t aware that his behavior was inappropriate. My anger towards him dissipated pretty quickly after that.
I know based on a logical analysis of what he said, he thoughtlessly condemned thousands of Jews, but perhaps he wasn’t thinking his words through or wasn’t thinking logically.
mw13,
I think you are correct in principle, but one cannot understate the difficulty and risk in properly giving tochacha to a Jewish soul. That is why, I think, you are receiving objections to your post. The Kohen Gadol must enter the Holy on Yom Kippur in a very precise fashion… any mistakes can be disasterous. I think giving tochacha should be approached with the same fear and awe. If a valuable ring fell into the sink and was perched right over the drain, we wouldn’t just quickly swing our hand down to grab at it… we would very carefully and deliberately rescue it.
In some cases if one is careful enough, tochacha can be given indirectly, without any confrontation. To make a really simplistic example, suppose person A sees person B doing something forbidden on Shabbos, like getting something out of his locked car. Maybe later, person A can casually bring up as part of a conversation, “oh, I wish I could show you my such-and-such, but I left in in my car and can’t get it until after Shabbos!” Point made without doing anything to person B’s dignity.
Sacrilege,
Romance and Infatuation are not the same thing.
Romance or Romancing someone is the act of loving/courting them. Infatuation is an emotion.
Perhaps I am working with differing definitions of romance. I agree that nice gestures demonstrating affection and interest should be made while dating, and that should only increase with marriage.
When I was thinking romance, however, I lumped it with infatuation because, in our surrounding culture, romance is used as a tool to generate infatuation. This unfortunately causes some to close their eyes to their partners’ faults while dating, only to open them after marriage. Ideally it should be the other way around.
popa_bar_abba,
If by establishing romance you mean establishing goodwill and demonstrating emotional and spiritual compatibility, I agree.
shlishi,
In my experience, I also find that public davening – other than Shemonah Esrei – where there is a “loud din” caused by everyone reciting the pesukim or brachos out loud are the most uplifting. I feel the engagement, the purpose, and the noise is angelic (literally).
I think, however, that The Frumguy and WolfishMusings (from 3 months ago) aren’t talking about that type of situation. They are talking about an individual who is shouting over the din – and may not even be in sync with the tzibbur.
So while I agree that davening out loud is best, one must remember that davening with a minyan is about the tzibbur, not just oneself, and adjust accordingly. There are plenty of opportunities to scream praises of Hashem at the top of your lungs throughout the day. When I walk into shul, I prefer to be a part of the din, not over it.
I think that yummy cupcake is correct in the context of dating.
I think that popa_bar_abba is correct in the context of marriage.
The terms used in our surrounding culture to describe romance/infatuation are telling: “head over heels”, “falling [in love]”, “smitten”, etc. All describe a loss of grounding.
Infatuation is not intrinsically bad and it is a vital part of human nature. During the dating process, however, I think it’s important to keep one’s eyes as open as possible despite the infatuation… and then fall completely “head over heels” after marriage. In other words, “romance” shouldn’t substitute for substantial conversation.
whats it take to get a screename subtitle?
A briefcase filled with small denomination, unmarked bills.
WolfishMusings,
I complained about this three months ago here on these forums and one poster basically told me (in essence) to stop complaining because the person disturbing me by davening loudly was right and I was wrong.
I read that thread with interest, but I don’t remember seeing a post that told you to stop complaining.
Out of 40 posts on that thread, I counted only four – from only two authors – that outright disagreed with you. The other 90% of the posts either agreed with you, indirectly complimented you through worries that you were leaving the CR due to the thread title or not singing in shul anymore, or were neutral (I’m including posts from authors trying to see both sides of the issue as neutral).
Of the disagreements, there was a total misunderstanding between you and Moderator80, which to me didn’t seem to result from a true disagreement on what you posted, but out of defensiveness and jumping to conclusions (on both sides). That leaves essentially only one author who disagreed with you to the end.
What I did notice was that any whiff of disagreement with your post – such as mentioning a value in reciting pesukim loudly during parts of davening – prompted an immediate response of (e.g.,):
So, is it your contention that I was wrong to be so upset?
Nobody wrote back and said yes.
So why, with a disapproval rating of (not even) 10% on your thread, do you feel persecuted?
WolfishMusings,
I intended my previous post to be worded in a very simple style. Upon rereading it, I’m concerned that it could come across as “sharp.” It wasn’t my intention!
WolfishMusings,
It seems that your question has been answered in pieces throughout the posts above.
Statement 1: We are obligated to try and stop a Jew from sinning.
Statement 2: An ain ma’alin who falls into a river is not committing a sin, therefore to not bring him up causes no conflict with statement 1.
Statement 3: Suicide is a grave sin.
Statement 4: See statement 1.
Do you disagree with any of this?
I think ZeesKite is right. A near miss is indeed a miss, and the “near” emphasizes the closeness attained by the almost-colliding subjects.
This cold shoulder business is the opposite of all midos tovos. Perish the thought. Chas vchalila. One can be extremely warm and kind, and still not cross any lines. One should greet everybody b’sever panim yafos,
I mostly agreed with you, up until…
offer to help in any way, ask them how their day is and how their family is doing, etc.
Helping with boundaries is no problem, but helping “in any way” is, since college students frequently blend social and academic activity. Think, “can we study for the exam over dinner?”
The remaining examples risk crossing the boundaries of professionalism. One can be approachable and friendly without discussing details of personal lives.
If I were back in college, I would try to reserve most interactions for the in-class setting, and pick same-gender lab partners.
We give out a small piece of chocolate for each good question.
a mamin,
Health: Are you trying to scare us???
No, I don’t think he is. I have GERD and have been treated by a GI doctor. Infrequent heartburn is one thing, but frequent heartburn should warrant a visit to the doctor. The esophageal walls are delicate and can be damaged by frequent reflux. It’s something that can be treated, so one should not just “live with it.”
shlishi and popa_bar_abba – hilarious!
I am a serious bruxer and clench/grind during the night, but am not aware of it. The dentist noticed wear on my bottom teeth. I recently received a mouthguard. Clenching/griding can definitely be a cause of tooth pain.
aries2756,
H&M does have a right to be notified that their ad was offensive in that community and that the owner of the space should have informed them of that.
For all of the money that large companies spend on market research, I find it hard to believe that they would have been completely ignorant of the situation. Also, I would imagine that people calling or writing complaints would be more likely to send them to the company rather than the property owner, because the company’s name is on the ad.
charliehall,
Yes, I would oppose it. Vandalism is illegal. It is no different from some Christian fanatic torching a synagogue because he is offended from our denial of his messiah.
Please. I really don’t think that painting over a billboard and torching a synagogue are analogous. In fact, I find the juxtaposition objectionable, since it suggests that torching a synagogue is only vandalism, and not an act of terror and hatred, or even murder if someone were inside.
Also, would you oppose any form of civil disobedience, no matter what for, because it was illegal?
gavra_at_work,
Had the Bochrim been thinking clearly, they might have covered the ad without defacing it (such as using a large tarp and a staple gun), until the ad could be changed by the owner.
I very much agree with this.