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The fact that she wants me to change my Rabbi for her shows that she doesn’t value Daat Torah. Don’t you think so?
No, it doesn’t show that. There is no indication from your posts that she doesn’t respect rabbis.
Also, how is your question even relevant to the discussion? You wrote:
She said that she doesn’t mind if I stay in touch with him and ask him for his advice
and
she said again that she doesn’t mind it if I talk to him
so she’s not even asking you to change your rav; she would just prefer that her own questions be taken to a different rav.
My typical response to this type of thread would be that there is not enough information provided to be able to properly assess what is going on and provide good advice. You provided us with the information that you chose to provide, however, and asked us to comment, so here you go.
My advice to you: this girl deserves better. And the next time you go on a date, please wear a sign that says, “Hello, my name is _____, and I will be abusive to you after we are married!”
She has done nothing wrong by you. She went to your rabbi and acted politely to him. She is putting no limitations on your contact with him. She has shared her feelings with you honestly and openly, and made a very reasonable request of you.
Your response? You’ve questioned her good middos. Accused her of being judgmental, ungrateful, and unappreciative. Dismissed her feelings and concerns. If this is how you plan to conduct yourself in marriage, then your “hours of dating coaching” by this rabbi have been a complete waste. You are not ready for marriage.
Imagine that after you are married, you perceive that your father-in-law is acting rudely towards you when they are visiting. It hurts your feelings, and makes you uncomfortable enough to tell your wife. Would you want your wife to respond, “that’s ridiculous! He’s been nothing but polite to you, and you are so ungrateful to even say that after all he’s done to help us!” I don’t think so.
zahavasdad,
You organize the asifa, I’ll bring the food… >:)
Pff, the Joseph list is larger than the “official” list by an order of magnitude.
zahavasdad,
In my Shul Kiddushes, the Baal Simcha somestimes brings the Schmaltz Herring. It is never eaten.
I see the opposite at my shul; the herring is usually eaten up.
rebyidd23,
it baffles me that some people like disgusting things
To those who like it, it’s not disgusting. And there are probably foods you think are delicious that others with different cultural backgrounds would find disgusting.
ukguyinEY,
Thank you einov beroishoi for the only one who managed to stay on topic.
It’s the minhag hamakom of the CR to go off topic, especially when you open controversial topics like schmaltz herring. If you want threads that don’t run the gamut, you should stick to less controversial matters, like tznius, working vs. learning, etc. 🙂
zahavasdad,
It might come as a surprise to you, but the fact that you don’t like a certain food doesn’t preclude others from liking it. Other human beings are separate from you, and have their own ideas and tastes.
The Goq,
I would do A). The dime in case B) would likely not make it back into the register. For C), it may not mean anything to the corporation, but it could potentially get the cashier into trouble at the end of the day when his/her register doesn’t balance correctly.
My thinking is that the ground opening demonstrated that Korach’s actions were wrong, e.g., rebelling against Moshe’s authority, but didn’t conclusively demonstrate that it was Hashem who chose Aharon to be kohen gadol rather than Moshe. The budding staff conclusively demonstrated that Hashem chose Aharon.
I also agree with WolfishMusings that the staff served as a permanent reminder that Hashem set the laws of priestly succession to ward off future disputes.
WolfishMusings,
How’s the larger knitted black yarmulke been treating you these past two years?
🙂
Patur Aval Assur,
Thank you for your response.
1)Hashem is in reality either A (corporeal) or B (incorporeal)
We can’t really say that – A and B are within our framework of understanding, and Hashem is completely beyond that understanding. He interacts with us through our framework, and that we can talk about.
2)There is a machlokes in this matter
3)It is not possible to KNOW which opinion is correct
4)It is not possible to absolutely believe that a certain side is correct because the other side might actually be right
5a)Either everyone who ever held the wrong belief is a kofer including Roshonim and including us
5b)Or everyone who held the wrong belief BECAUSE they had no way of definitively determining the truth is excused
There was a machlokes in the Gemara about the date of Yom Kippur, but now the date of Yom Kippur is completely settled across all Jewish communities. If Bob came along and said that he believed Yom Kippur was the other date and ate and drank on Yom Kippur, how would we treat him?
6)The Rambam obviously holds that these things are pashut enough that there are no excuses, but for us once there is a machlokes, it is not pashut
I know this has been around the block on this thread, but why is it not pashut if it has been settled by the Jewish people at large?
7)Some people say that whichever side became accepted must be right because H’ wouldn’t let kefira become accepted
This is consistent with our belief that Hashem guides and protects our people, and brings us close to Him.
8)I object to step 7 because if you hold like 5b then it wouldn’t matter if kefira became accepted because we would be excused anyway
The goal of Judaism isn’t to be excused, but to become close to Hashem.
and if you hold like 5a then the same way that H’ allowed earlier generations to be kofrim, he can allow us to be kofrim
Isn’t the status of a kofer something that we confer, not Hashem? If someone keeps the Torah and mitzvos but harbors private doubts, he is not treated like a kofer. The kofer is the person who publicly rejects settled beliefs. Since this status is in our hands, I don’t think your step 8 works.
DaasYochid,
Avram, why do you think “??? ???? ?????” means created and/or modifiable?
It’s very likely that I lack the knowledge necessary to mix into this conversation meaningfully. I’ve understood the Rambam’s position to be against idolatrous religions such as Christianity, that believe their deities can be born, transformed, married, injured, or killed. Or analyzed to determine what they’re made up of, etc. Also, if the universe was created ex nihilo, it would follow that all “corporeality” was created.
Regarding images – if we were to say that Hashem had an image, we would be saying that He was on a level that we could comprehend, which is clearly false.
And if you are sure that even those who, according to the Ra”avad, didn’t mean that, why didn’t the Ramba”m realize that?
I don’t understand the question, I am sorry.
(also, R’ Hillel’s statement was regarding Moshiach)
R’ Hillel wasn’t denying the concept of the coming of Moshiach, just that Chizkiyahu was the Moshiach, right? My understanding of the Rambam is that denying the idea of Moshiach is the kefira, not perhaps mistakenly identifying who it is (although deifying a man as the Christians have done certainly falls into that category).
Patur Aval Assur,
I understand your argument this way:
1. Hashem in “reality” is A (corporeal) or B (non-corporeal).
2. We do not know what Hashem is in “reality”.
3. Rambam holds that we must believe B is correct, and that anyone who professes A to be correct is a kofer.
4. There were sages before Rambam who argued a type of A, and were not considered to be kofrim.
5. Therefore, how can we consider someone who truly believes A to be correct to be a kofer, when we don’t know “reality” and he has those earlier sages to rely on?
My problem with this argument is with points 1 and 2. Reality, A, and B are things only on our level. We perceive the universe to be corporeal (A), and the opposite is non-corporeal (B), but who’s to say that our perceptions are reality? Hashem is completely beyond our conceptions and conventions, so how can we make any statements using our limited terminology about the nature of Hashem Himself?
The way I understand the Rambam is that our conception of corporeality is linked to creation and modification. In other words, if something is corporeal, than it was created by something (or someone) else and has the potential to be altered by created things. Therefore, to say that Hashem is corporeal is to argue that He Himself has a creator or could be affected by creations. Would you agree that such a statement is kefira? And if we went back and asked R’ Hillel if he thought Hashem was a creation or could be changed, do you think he’d agree or disagree?
kedushaskohen,
There was nothing in WolfishMusings’ post indicating that he felt any hatred towards anyone at all. On the contrary, I think it is correct to feel upset or annoyed by talking in shul. It is wrong, and it harms the tefillos of everyone there.
That said, I think your point that it isn’t best to sit and stew about the talking in silence is a good one. There is a large spectrum of choices available, however, between confronting the talkers directly (which WolfishMusings has stated he does not want to do) and davening alone at home. While it doesn’t solve the problem of talking, perhaps the easiest way to solve the issue of stewing is to change where one sits in the shul. Two people’s experiences at the same minyan could be quite different, with one in the back suffering from numerous talkers and another in front hearing nothing but the tefillos.
zahavasdad,
The longer the davening and the more breaks , like between aliyot the more likely there is going to be talking.
I have been to an early minyan where efficiency is the rule – davening is at a fast, “keep it moving!” clip, breaks are minimized, and there is no speech. Shabbos morning davening is usually completed in an hour and a half, and there is a nice kiddush afterwards with plenty of time to catch up with friends. Yet people still talk during the davening!
I think those talking in shul believe in Hashem, and they know what the tefillos are. I think it’s possible that they don’t fully understand how important their tefillos are – that they mean something and have an effect. That, plus a lack of situational awareness and sensitivity to others.
DaMoshe,
PBA: I find it interesting that the anti-Zionists (like HaKatan) will claim … Yet in this case, you’re claiming
I understand that you don’t like it when all Modern Orthodox are painted as YCT style open Orthodox. In the same respect, you should avoid painting everyone who has a different perception of events in E”Y than you as NK style anti-Zionists. What bearing does HaKatan’s arguments have on what popa_bar_abba is saying in this thread, which isn’t about Zionism per se but rather activities and behaviors near and on Har Habayis?
Sam2,
Meh. PBA is baiting people and people are taking the bait.
Ha. Both 147 and DaMoshe are smart people who have been around the CR for a long time. They both know very well what type of responses are likely to certain posts. With his response, popa_bar_abba was giving them what they expected, and possibly wanted, for whatever reason.
I agree with HaLeiVi. Rashi’s comment in parshas Yisro, ko somar l’veis Yaakov (i.e., speak gently to the women) v’sageid livnei Yisroel (i.e., harsh – punishments and details to the men) would seem to make sense if the women and men were standing separately at the mountain, out of earshot.
AZOI.IS,
Glad to know that the issue turned out to not be an issue at all!
Given that your OP provided enough specific detail for the couple to potentially identify themselves, but not enough detail for us random posters to really assess the situation, is it possible that you may have been using the CR to attempt to contact this couple to find out whether they were upset by something? If so, I would be careful doing that, because it could potentially cause hurt feelings. If this wasn’t your intention, perhaps it would be a good idea to minimize or even change the specific details (e.g., location of the party, timing of the engagement, religious history of the couple, length of the shidduch, etc.) to avoid the possibility of unintentionally getting “outed.”
We have to be careful when labeling vegetarians as acting against the Torah.
If someone believes that eating meat is fundamentally wrong because we have no moral authority to kill animals for our own needs when we can get adequate nutrition from other sources – I think that’s against the Torah.
If someone feels repulsed by the thought of eating meat because they picture the animals in their mind, but don’t see it as fundamentally wrong, I don’t think that’s against the Torah.
If someone feels that the practices of industrial meat production cause undue suffering to animals, unsanitary conditions, or even potential kashrus issues, I don’t think that’s against the Torah.
If someone wants to become a vegetarian for health reasons (e.g., following the Fuhrman diet), but doesn’t see eating meat as morally wrong, I don’t think that’s against the Torah.
Sam2,
There are also many husbands who feel uncomfortable asking these Shailas because it’s already secondhand and, as much as they try to avoid it, the husband has a certain bias involved. And the least bias there is in presenting any Shaila the better.
This doesn’t make sense to me. First, how can a case where physical evidence is brought be less clear than, e.g., kitchen shailos, where the rav is simply told what happened without seeing it for himself? Second, If someone has an accident in the kitchen that requires a shaila, s/he would have a bias towards kosher rather than treif, due to the waste of food and time kashering utensils. In fact, I would argue that there is bias in the majority of shailos asked, which is part of the reason we take things to a rav in the first place. Even if we know of opinions that can be relied on, by bringing the shaila to a rav, we give ourselves the opportunity to follow Hashem’s will rather than our own.
WolfishMusings,
Where on earth did you get the idea that my goal is to stop any (let alone all) minhagim?
I apologize for misinterpreting your intentions. I didn’t think that you wanted necessarily to stop this (or any) minhag, but it did seem to me that you were subtly calling its legitimacy into question.
My point was that if the sole reason to light a bonfire on L”B is becuase of the light that was revealed, then surely Shavuous is a better candidate.
I guess what I don’t understand about your point is: why can’t the bonfires be about the revealed light of Torah despite the fact that we don’t light bonfires on Shavuos? What is the issue with celebrating something in a different manner on a different day?
WolfishMusings,
Your analogy is not valid.
We were commanded by God to eat matzah and marror on Pesach, while we were not commanded to do so on Shabbos.
Fine; I should have picked an analogy dealing with minhagim.
OTOH, building bonfires is not a command from God, but something that we, ourselves originated.
So should those who make bonfires do away with the practice? Should Ashkenazim stop eating latkes on Chanukah? Sefardim stop eating donuts? Should Chabad do away with Yud Tes Kislev? Fabrengens? Should we also do away with dates and pomegranates on Rosh Hashanah, wearing kittels on Seder night and Yom Kippur, making a siyum, drashos before mussaf on Shabbos, etc. because we cannot find them in Chummash?
As such, if we can do so for Lag B’Omer, I don’t see a reason why we can’t do so for Shavuous as well.
If you find a halachically acceptable way of safely making a bonfire on Shavuos, then feel free to do that, and eat cheesecake on Lag Baomer while you’re at it:)
HaLeiVi,
I think he is just trying pinpoint what the idea really is.
Ok, but it doesn’t make sense to me why bonfires on Lag Baomer cannot be about celebrating the light of Torah just because we don’t light bonfires on Shavuos.
Sam2,
For example, firefighters and EMT workers in Israel had to be organized and ready to go at a moment’s notice, which meant preparing a few hours before Shabbos ended. That couldn’t have been done on Friday.
That makes sense, thank you.
WolfishMusings,
By that token, the Torah illuminated the world. Let’s make a bonfire on Shavuous.
Why would bonfires on Lag Baomer have anything to do with Shavuos? Is there fundamentally something wrong with celebrating something differently on different days? On Friday night, we say “zecher litziyas Mitzrayim” as part of kiddush, so by that token, should we eat matzah and maror every Shabbos?
I personally do not have a minhag to light bonfires on Lag Baomer, but I find the derision of those who make bonfires rather disturbing. I think the question of whether to postpone the bonfires until Sunday afternoon to make things easier on the police and for people trying to attend is valid, but to lambaste the bonfires entirely as bittul zman and “meaningless” is an insult to large segments of Jewry.
I also don’t fully understand the accusation that motzei Shabbos bonfires cause chillul Shabbos. Are the bonfire organizers really telling Jewish police officers, “please be there by 3pm on Saturday afternoon so we can get started promptly at 9?” If the police were interested in keeping Shabbos, why can’t they make most of the preparations like barricades before Shabbos, go home and observe Shabbos, make havdalah, jump into their uniforms and ride on over to man the ship? If cv”s preparations were done on Shabbos, then it’s the police who chose to be mechallel Shabbos.
Going one step further, what’s to stop the police from starting their preparations on Shabbos even if the bonfires were held Sunday aftrernoon? Should all motzei Shabbos activities that might necessitate crowd control be postponed until Tuesday?
pixelate,
What you described very well may be explainable by a terrestrial craft rather than an extraterrestrial spacecraft. Usage of unmanned drones has increased in recent years, and at nighttime, many of these drones would appear as formations of discs of light. The drone itself or equipment on the drone may also explain the strange noises you heard.
mw13,
why do we focus on praising the few actions of the irreligious that we support, and on deploring the few actions of the NK that condemn
The intent behind an action plays a big role in how others respond to it. If someone with their back turned towards me was gesticulating wildly in conversation and accidentally struck my face with his hand, I would be upset by his carelessness, but would probably not have my feelings hurt much. If the same person looked hatefully at me and intentionally struck me on the face, however, even though the physical impact of the act was the same as the first case, I would feel much more hurt and anger.
Most people do not presume that the typical irreligious Jew is intentionally committing aveiras in order to harm the Jewish people. When NKs are seen spitting on other Jews, however, or flying the PLO flag, visiting Ahmadinejad or paying homage to Yasir Arafat, most people do think they are exhibiting active malice towards their brethren.
I’m pretty sure they do not believe that Jews should be killed or deserve to be killed.
If someone in Wyoming displays a swastika, I think it’s reasonable to believe that he agrees with the atrocities committed by the Nazis. Likewise, if someone embraces “erased in a single storm” and “go back to Germany” Ahmadinejad and attends Iran’s conference on Holocaust denial, what are we to make of that?
although even then, when’s the last time you heard somebody call the irreligious “self-hating Jews”, etc?
It’s actually very common to hear an irreligious Jew who, for example, changes his name to make it sound less Jewish, or openly supports the Arab positions, or otherwise acts embarrassed to be associated with Jews called a “self-hating” Jew. I heard that term used long before I became frum myself or heard of the NK.
I just pointed out that to focus on the minority of good deeds of one group and the minority of bad deeds of another is rather hypocritical.
Failure to understand another’s position does not make it hypocrisy.
mw13,
I think it is possible that you are seeing a contradiction where none exists due to a faulty premise that every person or every situation deserves the same response. As we learned at the seder, four different sons, four different responses.
he extols the sensitivity that he saw them express towards others. He goes on at length about how it is thanks to these brothers and sisters of ours that Hashem is oheiv es amo yisroel, loves the Jewish People.
Are you sure that the author’s intent was to heap praise on the irreligious, or rather to praise b’nei Yisroel that even the ones distant from Torah and mitzvos display upstanding middos?
he deals with the subject of the Neturei Kartanics who went to meet with Ahmadinejad.
Here the norm is to denounce and deplore their actions, and to demonize them as “self-hating Jews”, even “traitors to Hashem and His Torah”.
Ahmadinejad materially supports those who kill Jews. He mocks and insults Jews, including our martyrs, in front of the world. NK seemingly did not go there to seek mercy for their bretheren. They embraced him, and expressed support for his “cause” against the state of Israel. They are not simply anti-Zionist, you can be anti-Zionist without supporting the enemies of the Jewish people. NK on the other hand displays the flag of the PLO, an organization with the blood of Jews on its hands. How can we not have a strong reaction to that?
Hypothetically, should our ancestors in Egypt have reacted the same to a Jew who r”l assimilated into Egyptian culture verses a Jew who outwardly maintained the trappings of Judaism, but who declared that the Jews deserved their slavery and patted the Egyptian soldiers on their backs as they drowned Jewish babies in the hopes of currying favor with the Egyptian government?
We do not tell over stories of the good that they do; we do not seem to care.
Do you have any knowledge of good that they do?
You must live on a different planet from me. Seculars open a parking lot on Shabbos in Yerushalayim? Denounced, protested. Conservative movement permits driving on Shabbos? Denounced, protested.
Why do we tend to focus on the 10% of the weekly routine of an otherwise irreligious Jew that is in accordance with the Halacha, and focus on the 10% of the time a NKnic spends doing things that we disagree with?
I disagree with your assertion that we ignore the 90% with regard to an irreligious Jew. I have heard no “pintele yid” stories that do this – they usually end with the irreligious Jew becoming frum. Also, do you really want to go down the path of criticizing a focus on 10% bad when 90% is ok? If someone commits adultry only 10% of the time, should we really praise him for his commitment to put on tefillin every day?
CR10,
You are changing around what I said.
There seemed to be a clear implication in your posts that you believe there is a correlation between increased observance (e.g., chumros or full time learning) and feeling superior to others.
I said WE shouldn’t feel superior.
I can agree with that statement regarding feelings. It is clear from our tradition that arrogance is a trait that Hashem finds particularly repugnant.
Do you think it is possible, however, for a Jew to uphold something he values when interacting with another Jew who doesn’t uphold it, yet without feeling superior? For example, a child of a non-TV household coming home and asking his parents to buy a TV because his friend gets to watch all of these great shows. What does the parent say? Or getting a meal invitation from someone who does things in the kitchen that you do not think are permissible to eat.
Also, do you think it is possible to have a disagreement on an issue of religious observance without one side feeling like the other is looking down on them (whether or not the other side is)?
According to the Ramban everyone is equal.
I do not see this from what you have quoted. Only Hashem can determine the value of a person.
When Shaul Hamelech went to war with Amalek, he allowed some of the animals, spoils, and the enemy king (Agag) to survive, in violation of the mitzvah to completely eradicate Amalek. Shmuel Hanavi’s rebuke of Shaul Hamelech had an interesting component to it – he accused the king of sinning because he was small in his own eyes. In other words, it seems that Shaul Hamelech believed that since everybody is equal, than who was he to judge what his soldiers did? This was misplaced humility. He wasn’t equal, he was king, and he had a responsibility to judge his soldiers’ behavior, rebuke them, and lift them up. Ultimately his failure to do so damaged the authority of his kingship beyond repair.
(Disclosure: I have not learned this Gemara inside, so others feel free to add/correct) In Maseches Sota, Rava says that someone who is prideful deserves to be excommunicated, and that someone who has no pride also deserves to be banned. Rashi comments that the latter is true because, without any pride, nobody would take him seriously or listen to his rebuke.
CR10,
I think you may be confusing the idea of judging a person’s worth with judging behaviors and actions. Only G-d can do the former, but G-d commmands us to do the latter.
The problem is that if I don’t have a TV and you do, I may feel superior to you. And if you are a learner and I’m not, you may feel superior to me.
So should we all get TVs and stop learning so that nobody feels inferior? This is not kindergarten. Religious observance seems to be a touchy subject, so let’s remove it from the equation. Billy is a better piano player than Bob, and Bob can draw better than Billy. Is Billy a better person than Bob, or Bob a better person than Billy? We don’t know, but if Joe wants to become a better artist, he should learn piano from Billy and drawing from Bob, not vice versa.
The point is not to feel superior to any other Jew even if we keep more mitzvot
The point of humility is not to think that we’re equal to everyone else, because we’re not. The point is to realize that our talents and opportunities come from Hashem, not from ourselves.
DaMoshe,
I was very bothered by the thread (now closed) about Modern Orthodox “minhagim”.
I was bothered by it as well.
I clarified there that MO does not endorse such behaviors! Yet the attacks keep on coming.
I don’t think all of the responses in the thread were as clear cut as yours in declaring the practices wrong; however I agree with you that a discussion of issues like this should be more nuanced in order to be respectful or respectable, because in reality the issues are nuanced. Imagine what a new BT who is slowly taking on Jewish practices, has starting keeping Shabbos and kosher, and has made improvements to her manner of dress, but hasn’t yet taken on covering hair or skirts, would feel reading the closed thread.
I had an urge to post a comparable thread, but I resisted it
I actually think that the mitzvah tantz thread is comparable. Unfortunately, Internet discussions seem to breed “us versus them” mentalities, where it’s difficult to debate issues without vitriol.
When I post now, I stop and think for a moment, asking myself, “Am I hoping to accomplish something positive with this?” If I think it will have a negative effect, I don’t post it.
Very nice.
Whoops, in my above post, the units for acceleration should be m/s^2, not m/s 🙂
Dash is correct – you have to make sure all of your units line up, which is best done by showing all work.
Newton’s Second Law: F = ma
The gravitational acceleration is g = 9.8 m/s
Centripetal acceleration is a = v^2/r
So to keep that car on track, you want to balance the centripetal acceleration with gravitational acceleration, so: 9.8 = v^2/r
Your r is known: 50ft, which is 15.24m, so v^2 = 9.8 * 15.24, and v = sqrt(9.8 * 15.24) = 12.22 m/s.
Converting 12.22 m/s into mph and you get 27.3.
It doesn’t seem like the torah learning is a [burden] to you, just the weight of a sefer.
Exactly. I don’t see the equivalence between the learning and the shlepping. Does a guy with a regular sized Artscroll gemara volume get more schar for learning than a guy with the smaller “daf yomi” volume?
In this case, I would have ended up learning the exact same amount — I just would have gotten to the stopping point a few minutes later in my ride.
Assuming that the 10 minutes later train doesn’t magically reach your destination sooner than your normal train, you may well have had an opportunity to learn more than you would have otherwise. I think you did the right thing with your inner critic. 🙂
My cousin got engaged on his third date.
Mazal tov!
Anyone beat that?
Is it a race?
zahavasdad,
Are you arguing that it is not anti-Semitism for someone to imply that a chareidi is a dirty Jew, because you feel it’s a true statement? That seems to be insinuated when you doubled down on your initial post to this thread even after clear examples of the anti-Semitism were posted.
Also, your chiding that Bloomberg never complained about his nasty mail makes no sense in the context of this conversation. First of all, we’re discussing a public thread on a municipal Facebook site that everyone can read, not private letters or rants on a hate group message board. Second, the mayor of Lakewood has not complained in this discussion, unless you think Ctrl Alt Delete is the mayor. Third, why should Bloomberg have complained? He had a security detail, and the NYPD and FBI likely looked into any threats he received.
Avram in MD, who is so wise, figured out how to make romaine lettuce that doesn’t ever need to be checked. (You may call me the devil, if you so wish.)
Suppose you have a world with no bugs in it. None. And then you grow some romaine lettuce. You don’t need to check that lettuce before you use it for maror, or on a sandwich, or in a salad. Because there are no bugs. It’s that simple.
And of course this is totally applicable to the real world. 🙂
holy brother,
Assuming Reuven would want to be treated in a specific form, Shimon feels that this form is not good for Reuven, does the torah want Shimon to treat Reuven in the form Reuven wants, or the form Shimon feels is right?
I do not think that ????? ???? ???? means that Reuven should do something for Shimon that he feels is not good just because Shimon wants it. Saying no to someone does not contradict the idea of loving them. The no should be respectful, just as you would want to be treated when someone says no to you.
DaMoshe,
The fact is that the atzeres was about the draft bill. The chareidim don’t want to serve in the army – so is it a lie to say “so only other Jews die in war”?
It’s a fallacious, libelous and speculative conclusion. Suppose somebody offered me a piece of cheese and I said, “no, thanks.” Given no additional data, is it reasonable for that person to assume that I don’t like cheese, or don’t trust their kashrus, or kill kittens? Perhaps I love cheese, but I just finished off a steak sandwich 20 minutes ago!
Chareidim have provided numerous cogent reasons for not wanting to join the Israeli army. You can perhaps debate whether the reasons are reasonable, but to ignore their reasons and accuse them of considering their blood redder than others is simply slander.
jbaldy22,
This is a widely accepted minhag that to my understanding has been practiced for generations and that is not something to tread on lightly.
I agree with you. Perhaps we can all agree, however, that there is no minhag for public drunkenness or dangerous behavior on Purim? Those issues can certainly be addressed without throwing away the minhag of drinking on Purim.
gavra_at_work,
If Obama won’t back up Ukraine against a clear act of war, after the US signed a treaty to do so to do so in 1994
The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of December 1994 provided assurances that Ukraine’s territory would be respected by the signatories (US, UK, Russia) in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal. In the event that nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine, UN Security Council action is required. Given a territory violation, at most, the treaty could be used as justification for any US or UK actions taken to uphold Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty, but as far as I am aware it does not bind any nation to take such actions. It seems pretty clear that Russia has violated this treaty. I would argue that Russia may have violated the treaty even before putting troops in Crimea through the use of natural gas economic blackmail to stop Ukraine’s negotiations with the EU.
You are clearly bothered by U.S. inaction in Ukraine. What would you recommend that the U.S. do that it is not doing now? Threaten nuclear war? Invade Ukraine to repulse the Russian troops?
why in the world would anyone think that Obama would back Israel in case of a war?
This may be a fair question to ask, but I think it’s weakened when you tie it to the situation in Ukraine, because the U.S. hasn’t failed to honor the 1994 treaty.
Perhaps Israel should re-orient itself towards other countries that have similar interests in fighting the millitant spread of Islam, such as Russia and China.
Do you think Russia or China would support Israel over Iran if G-d forbid there was war?
kfb,
Can someone explain to me why frum yeshivas feel it’s necessary to open school during snowstorms while public schools and modern schools are closed? Besides for the fun of snow days and playing in the snow and having time off, but isn’t it dangerous to keep the yeshiva open?
Public school districts usually base their decision to open or close on whether their school buses can navigate the snow or ice covered streets, or whether conditions may deteriorate during the day where the buses cannot get the kids home. If their decision making were based on broader danger for students coming to school, then they would remain closed for much of the winter, because sidewalks used by kids walking to school may be icy for days or weeks after a snow event, and streets away from bus routes where students live may not be clear. If a particular yeshiva does not utilize buses, then why should it close?
Doesn’t it remind you of socialism?
Uhh, no. Actually, your complaint is more grounded in socialism, since you expect the schools to decide for the parents whether it is safe enough to go to school. It is ultimately the parents’ responsibility to assess conditions and determine whether it is safe to send their children to school. Most streets in a district may be plowed and salted, while yours is still treacherous. If you send your child out and s/he G-d forbid gets hurt, it’s not the fault of the open school, it’s your fault.
HaKatan,
I think that part of the confusion in this debate is that everyone coming into it has a different definition of Zionism. I think we all agree that the idea of putting our trust in the formation and defense of a secular European style nation state as the goal of the Jewish people is A”Z. I think beyond that there is a wide spectrum of what frum people here mean when they refer to Zionism today, and some or most of those concepts are not A”Z (even if you hold all of them to be wrong). Labels change and evolve, and are notoriously imprecise, so it’s possible that when you quote R’ Elchonon and declare Zionism to be A”Z, you may be drawing a much larger circle than he intended.
rabbiofberlin,
Avram in MD and others: … but allow to answer the so-called obtuseness that I am accused of and also Avram’s question.
I never intended to imply that you were obtuse.
The Rambam clearly indicates that a person-not yet know as the Melech Hamoshiach- will wage war to free the jews from their oppressors.
So, please pray tell me how anyone can wage war if the sholosh shevuos are applicable.
I think oppressors may be the key word here. From my understanding, I don’t think that even the most binding interpretation of the shalosh shavuos precludes a defensive war against enemies who try to kill us, e.g., the war against the forces of Haman in Persia. If Moshiach comes through war, I think it would be a war of survival against a king “who’s decrees are worse than Haman’s.”
jewishfeminist02,
“Goodness”? You mean quality?
Sure 🙂
Anyhow, can’t we all agree that music is a matter of personal taste/preference and to each his own?
Once below 115 dB and with kosher words, I’ll agree with you.
rabbiofberlin,
My question is simple: how can the Rambam actually “pasken” (remember, this is Moshne Torah that ratifies halochos)that the Moshiach will wage war against our opressors (he calls them “milchamos Hashem)if the “sholosh shevuos” that prohibit rising up against the gentiles is halacha? Clearly, the Rambam did not accept that the shevuos are halacha and that we are bound by them,as he explicitly paskens against them.
I do not know enough to get into the discussion about the practical applications of the shalosh shevuos. From what I understand, however, the vows are in effect only when the Jewish people are ruled by non-Jewish nations. In the days of Moshiach, the Jewish people will not be ruled by non-Jewish nations, but by Moshiach, so the vows would no longer apply.
Based on the logic in your question, you would also have to ask how it is possible for a nazirite to cut his hair and place it on his korban, when the halacha clearly is that a nazirite does not cut his hair?
crisisoftheweek,
I’m guessing the ba’alei simcha is more concerned with being perceived as “too modern” more than the actual musical quality occuring.
Again, this is an unfounded assumption. Just because you like rock music does not mean that everyone else in the world has to, and that there must be some conspiratorial reason behind it if they don’t.
see if you can keep up with the time signature changes or the massive amounts of chord changes used in a single song.
Ok – so perhaps you’ve proved that rock music can be complex, but complexity doesn’t necessarily correlate with goodness 🙂
crisisoftheweek,
Uhhh..you do realize that by Yeshivish you mean more “klezmerish” which was the rock music of the goyim back in de alter heim.
Uhhh..you do realize that just because the OP does not prefer rock music does not mean he deserves your ridicule of perceived hypocrisy in aversions to music styles in the frum community. Maybe he just doesn’t want his simcha overshadowed by horrendous sounds masquerading as music that utilizes only three chords in an entire song but doesn’t need to use more because the listeners are half deaf by the end anyway.
And if goyish music is an issur of some sort, it might as well sound like it came from this century rather than the soundtrack to a pogrom.
Are you in favor of dumping Beethoven and Dvorak too? Their music is so… 1800s.