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zahavasdad,
Its much harder to make rules on children over 18 as you really dont have any leverage on them, they can just leave.
Why would I want to have “leverage” over my 18 year old child? That doesn’t seem like a healthy way to relate at all. And why are we treating adult children like they are immature teenagers?
I am guessing many people feel its better for their OTD child to be home friday night watching TV or surfing the web than hanging out on the streets and doing who knows what.
This seems like a false dilemma, because there is a whole continent of scenarios between being at home on a Friday night and being “on the street”. Also, I would certainly not disallow a child from my home because he doesn’t keep Shabbos, G-d forbid. At the same time, as the manager of a shomer Shabbos home, I can expect that no phones should be seen out and about. And as far as television, there would need to be a television in the home for there to be television watching. I’m not planning to buy one, and I don’t feel guilty about that.
I cant speak for anyone here, but if someone threw out their OTD kid for not dressing properly, using nivel peh and being Mechalel Shabbos and eating treif
So here you are not even responding to me anymore, because I have never suggested throwing a child out of the house for any reason.
and that kid went out and did Heroin and ODed and died , I dont know how many could forgive themselves
I don’t know about you, but my home is NOT a halfway house, and I am in no way equipped to respond appropriately to a serious drug abuse problem. If I think I can counter substance abuse with a warm embrace and an “everything goes” policy under my roof, I would not only be an enabler, I would be putting my child and everyone else in the home in serious danger. What if that kid G-d forbid ODed in his room, and a younger sibling found him in the morning? Or the dealer comes by the house to collect on his debts?
The little I know,
You have drawn a parallel between absence of boundaries and rejection.
No I haven’t. I asserted that you drew a parallel between boundaries and rejection. And yes, they are definitely not the same.
The ultimate rejection, which is what the Satmar publication advocates is something I will never accept. Neither would the Divrei Yoel, and countless other rabbonim and gedolim.
I understand that it might be easier to swing your bat at the “Satmar publication” straw man than respond to my position, but it really does not further the conversation, because I am in no way advocating for the “Satmar publication” position as you present it (I have not seen anything about it myself).
And, no, I do not have any “straw” gedolim. I presented enough references from seforim to review and see the statements in print. And there are other seforim I have not yet seen.
I understand and have seen your references. What I am suggesting is that the sources you have brought state A,. And you are arguing that since A is true than B must follow. And I am disputing your B, not the point A.
A = A parent should always love and embrace his child and not reject him completely.
B = Boundaries are good in theory, but if a child has problems with boundaries, the boundaries should fall by the wayside, because it’s not loving or accepting to make a child with boundary issues face boundaries.
RebYidd23,
I second The little I know. You speak truth.
The little I know,
I get that you are trying to convince everyone that today’s “OTD” children are not in the category of baal aveira/sinner/kofer/heretic/whatever who would need to be rejected halachically. I believe, however, that there is a big disparity between the philosophy you advocate here “in the name” of the gedolim and what the gedolim would actually hold. You argue that boundaries should be set in theory, unless they – heaven forbid – make the child feel rejected, because the child’s feelings trump parental boundaries. You then bring numerous anecdotes of gedolim advising parents to not kick their children out of the house. Nothing in these anecdotes show that the gedolim told the parents to remove all boundaries in their homes, to remove any rule that might offend the child’s delicate sensibilities. Taken the way you present it, a child can hold his parent hostage on any boundary. “You don’t love me because you won’t give me ice cream for supper!” If, therefore, boundaries and love cannot coexist, and love is paramount, then boundaries must go.
I agree with you that a parent should always demonstrate to his child that he loves him, will always love him, desires to support him, and will not give up on him. Connection – not commands. This is not the same as having no boundaries. Parents who have no boundaries are not parents. They are avoiders and negligent.
Me? No.
The little I know,
HaRav Yankele Pshevorsk zy”a gave similar advice to a very Chassidishe family whose son brought a shiksa to live with him in their home! His words were: “Give him MORE LOVE and MORE MONEY!”
This is worded very strangely. Did the son bring this woman to live in “their” (i.e., the parents’) home? If so, did Rav Pshevorsk recommend allowing the woman to remain living in the home? Or, more likely, was the son living on his own and intermarried? The response to the latter would be VERY different from the response to the former.
We must replace REECHOK – with KIRRUV!
We must replace REJECTION – with CONNECTION!
We must replace CRITICISM – with COMPLIMENTS!
We must replace JUDGEMENT – with UNDERSTANDING!
We must replace cold negative looks – with warm positive smiles!And all of this can (and must) be done while maintaining proper expectations and boundaries.
Takes2-2tango,
Thank you for responding again in such a nice way.
Personally i can tell u that its the small and almost meaningless thing that tick a boy or girl off, such as making a big deal about hair length , black hat / no hat, dark clothing vs light clothing,s tandard size yamulka vs smaller. wearing rabaynu tam tfillin vs not wearing them.
If I were to take a guess, it was not the “almost meaningless thing”, but rather the “making a big deal about” that provoked the “tick off.”
When i say mundane i mean in the over all picture its mundane on the large chance of losing your child totally.
I don’t think something mundane causes a child to be lost. Something bigger must be going on.
These are for the most part where children start to get frustrated from thier parents in yiddishkiet.
Or frustration with parents gets projected onto Yiddishkeit.
Also many if not most people who are frum by rote confuse halacha with chumra, mesora/ minhogim / vs home made yiddishkiet. First stick to the hardcore halachos and then slow wean onto chumris.
Concentrating on chumros with out doing the halachos properly is a recipe for boys and girls going otd. Same applies to grown adults.So it would seem to me that chumras per se are not the problem, but rather a lack of knowledge or poor chinuch. So rather than throwing out all boundaries, which seems to me like cutting off a leg to heal an arm, we should properly educate ourselves and become better parents and Jews.
Curious1000,
Can we please stop having posted based on evolutionary thought?
I didn’t post anything on evolutionary thought. Do you think there’s no such thing as DNA?
I know that no one here would say that they believe in evolution, but if you don’t then you aren’t having “dinosaur chicken”, it is chicken
I’m not claiming there ever was something called a dinosaur chicken. I’m saying that chickens are dinosaurs. And tasty.
zahavasdad,
but a smart parent knows when to give in and when to give the kid some freedom.
I agree 100%. I try not to be judgemental of other families, however, so I shy away from saying that so-and-so an issue (e.g., wearing a hat) is objectively unreasonable. Another family may think you are unreasonable for not letting your kid fry up bacon in your pan.
Have a wonderful Shabbos!
RebYidd23,
those don’t count. Everyone know what it means to bring dinosaurs to life: the fun, exciting ones. Like T-Rex and Triceratops. Not the boring ones like the dodo.
Get into it with an angry Canadian goose, and you’ll change your opinion quickly. They hiss, strike, have long necks, and pretty terrifying teeth (including on the tongue). Dinosaur.
I’m not a biologist, but I think a lot of traits associated with your fun dinosaurs still exist within the DNA of birds. Genetic engineering , for example, may be able to produce a toothy attack chicken with a sauropod-like tail. But instead of roaring as it rampages through the village, it’ll go bok bok bok bok BWAAAAAK!
zahavasdad,
Things that are minhagim , Strong minhagim no doubt, but not Halacha
I’m not sure how this is relevant. Parents have not only the right, but an obligation to set up boundaries and expectations that are appropriate for their home. These boundaries should be reasonable, and should take into account everyone’s needs, personalities, limitations, etc. It may well be reasonable to expect household minhagim to be respected.
The little I know,
I join you in wishing to establish proper boundaries in the home. Helivai we could manage this.
What do you mean by halevai? If parents are unable to establish proper boundaries in the home, that is an unhealthy and dangerous situation. If parents allowed illegal drugs or underage drinking into their home due to a lack of boundaries, they could find themselves in legal jeopardy. More apropos to our discussion of rebellion against Yiddishkeit, Is it ok for an Orthodox home’s kitchen to be made unkosher because a child is “acting out”?
No one would want their son in a t-shirt and shorts or a girl dressed inappropriately sitting at the Shabbos table.
For cases like these, a discussion among the parents, children, rav, and perhaps a family counselor would be a good idea. Parents cannot pick every single battle, nor would that be a healthy dynamic for anyone. But the home is not a democracy, everyone’s needs are important, and the parents have the responsibility of setting up the boundaries and expectations. Should children be involved in those discussions and their input respected and considered? Absolutely. Should they expect to get everything they want all the time? No.
The question is how do we set boundaries? How do children accept the request? Do they see this as a boundary, or a rule intended to challenge them? Is this just another way of telling them that we don’t want them? Is it a provocation that will result only in their digging their heels in deeper? Is this a form of תוכחה that halacha specifically tells us not to do because it is ineffective?
Boundary setting and tochacha are very different things. If a parent conflates the two, he needs a parenting course. If a child conflates the two, he needs counseling and/or a reality check.
Our מקדש מעט will not be fashioned by the dictating of rules when a child begins acting out.
Dictating is only one way to set boundaries, and probably not the best way in most situations.
Rules? Is that all we need to?
Teenager logic. Just because one discussion is about rules does not mean that everything is about rules.
Dinosaurs are still around, and all around us. Not the larger species, and not the toothed species. But the smaller beaked and winged ones. Iy”H I’m planning to have baked dinosaur with rice and potatoes tonight, and dinosaur schnitzel on Shabbos day.
Takes2-2tango,
Maybe you should learn to read before you spew your hatred towards the OTD world.
I was addressing your post. Not some “OTD world.” And I spewed no hatred, towards you or anyone else. I made an effort to write my post in a respectful manner. You have not afforded me the same courtesy.
I never ever said that hashem doesnt punidh sinners.
You asked rhetorically if we get punished when we sin, and used that as a basis for an argument that we don’t have the right to punish people for sins when Hashem doesn’t (always) punish us. If that wasn’t your point, I apologize, and ask if you could restate it more directly.
Fot you as a human being you have no right to decide whether a person is or is not betraying hashem. Hashem is the only one to know what is in a person head and heart. not you, not a father and not moshe rabenu .
I agree that we cannot know what is in someone else’s heart. However, as we read in Parshas Nitzavim: וְהַנִּגְלֹ֞ת ֹלָֹ֤נוֹּ ֹוֹּלְֹבָֹנֵֹ֨יֹנֹוּ֨ עַד־עוֹלָ֔ם לַֽעֲשׂ֕וֹת אֶת־כָּל־דִּבְרֵ֖י הַתּוֹרָ֥ה הַזֹּֽאת
That said, if you’ve read all of my posts, you’ll find that I never suggested that we should punish a child who is off the derech. The only thing I have said is that parents have a right to set rules and expectations for what goes on in their house. And that they should do so lovingly and carefully.
Until then leave it up to hashem and stop judging people especially people who dress , talk and differently then u. Its people like you who cause kids to off.
That’s a whole lot of unfounded assumptions about me. It is your finger that is pointed in self-righteous judgement of others, not mine.
Takes2-2tango,
To all holier then thous.
Who?
We all agree that hashem is our ultimate father.
When a petson does an avaira publicly or in Private , does hashem throw him to the dogs? Does hashem throw him out of the shul he once davenef in?Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Who are you to decide as a father to disown your son for being a ball avaira.
Whoh, hold the horses there for a minute. Not even Joseph, who’s trolling the thread, has said to disown anyone.
Think very hard before throwing your child out of your house.
I’ve read a lot of discussion in this thread about tolerating or not tolerating certain behaviors in your house, but nothing about throwing a child out. Can you point me to an example?
Just remember. What goes around comes around. Hashem works is very wonderous Ways
So twice in your post you attacked the mysterious “holier than thous” by saying that Hashem doesn’t punish sinners. But now you use Hashem’s vengeance as a threat? Seems ironic.
Joseph,
Yet Halacha l’maaisa today is that we now here in America are deputized to be a Pinchos in our times. Check the local copy of your Shulchan Aruch. The very same S”A that tells us that, today, we are to (physically if necessary) punish wayward Yidden who violate בין אדם למקום.
How about we “check” our living and breathing rabbeim before going off and petching people? They know the Shulchan Aruch a lot better than us, and that is the proper way for a Jew to obtain guidance.
DaasYochid,
No, but that doesn’t mean the troubled teen won’t perceive or treat it as unloving or judgemental.
There comes a point where poor receipt of a message is the child’s problem, not the parent’s. That said, the parent must take great pains to be loving and respectful of the child. Tone and nonverbals can be more powerful than the actual words.
DaasYochid,
I disagree with you on the semantics. Someone who doesnt have a severe disorder is not a “choleh” (shoteh would probably have been the more halachically accurate term) but is in fact a baal aveirah. There’s really no in between.
Point taken, but with the caveat that I would then argue that there are different “degrees” of baal aveirah, and one’s nisayonos plays a role in that.
Haimy,
The question has tremendous ramifications; before we suggest to people to allow chillul Shabbos, Z’nus, tarfus, V’chol dovor assur into their homes in order to maintain a positive relationship with their non-religious child
I don’t accept the premise of this statement. I think it is incumbent on parents to try and maintain a positive relationship with their child. At the same time, as managers of the home, the parents have a right to set rules and expectations for what happens under their roof. Having different beliefs does not make it ok for a child to defy rules or severely disrupt the home.
“This is a kosher kitchen. Please do not bring that food in here.”
“This home is Shabbos observant. We expect everyone here to put cell phones away. It can be used later tonight after havdala.”
Nothing unloving or even judgmental in those statements.
The little I know,
You believe we are discussing baalei aveiroh. I do not. I believe we are discussing a choleh
I think the reality, predictably, is in the middle of these extremes. Can hurtful experiences at the hands of parents and schools help drive a child off the derech who otherwise would have stayed on, R”L? Certainly. At the end of the day, however, in the absence of a severe disorder, a young adult is responsible for his own choices, and cannot endlessly abdicate his responsibility by blaming mommy and daddy, or Rebbe Meany. Hashem gave him those parents and teachers, and yet he is still obligated in the mitzvos.
Chabadshlucha,
Anyway I’m curious where is Tevel today? Any sources address this?
According to Google Maps, it’s in southwestern Hungary, in Tolna County.
Golden nuggets of wisdom,
it’s a matter of menorah. Our parents and grandparents in Europe didn’t light up and therefore neither should we
I think I do have a mesora from my great grandparents in Europe of lighting up a menora.
assurnet,
So something like cannabis doesn’t take you out of a certain state of consciousness that you would naturally be in otherwise but rather pushes you further along in a certain direction along the spectrum.
Altering a changeable variable vs. a fixed variable is still altering. Your psychology reference strengthens the argument against using marijuana. As Jews, we understand that operating in certain parts of the mindfulness “spectrum” as you say is ideal. Torah and mitzvos are intended to push us towards a more centered and long-range viewpoint, where we can see the situation at hand within the context of the idea that we are servants of Hashem, rather than a cork bobbing along in a tempest. Therefore, we should utilize sleep, food, music, etc. to help us get to those beneficial places on the “spectrum”, not let the “spectrum” dictate how we act and perceive the world. Yes our state of mind changes a lot, but we are still responsible for ourselves.
I’ve known some people who tell me they ability to study certain non-religious subjects was greatly enhanced by it.
Ever have a dream where you believe you’ve had an incredible insight, that you’ve figured something amazing out, and then woken up and realized that your idea was a jumble of nonsense? That’s the enhancement of marijuana. It doesn’t make learning better. It makes nonsense look like genius.
But what about something lighter like putting on your headphones and listening to a good shiur?
A good shiur may be relaxing to some, but recreation is not the ikkar of Torah learning.
I’ve personally found that when I contemplate inyanim of kedusha I sometimes get profoundly deeper insights than I would normally get and once I “come off of it” I feel a renewed and deeper appreciation for Hashem and His mitzvas and a stronger desire to fulfill them.
Until your next brownie, where you then lose lots of mitzvah opportunities because you cannot focus on gemara, or cannot drive to visit the sick, or bring food to a family with a newborn, or handle your children with clarity. The yetzer hara is extremely wily.
It’s like packing 500 mussar shmuzes into one hour.
Ridiculous. If 500 mussar shmuzes were on one side of a self-improvement scale, and a bong was on the other, you really think they’d balance out?
I remember reading in an Aryeh Kaplan book or essay that part of the reason we have wine for kiddush on Friday night and Chagim is for the alcohol to help lift up our state of mind to help us better appreciate the kedusha of the special day.
Then why don’t kohanim duchen by Simchas Torah mussaf? Surely their state of mind is lifted to help them better appreciate their people and the flow of bracha that should come to them from Hashem?
But if somebody could use it (again responsibly and in moderation) and potentially maybe even grow in their ovadat Hashem do we still write that off from a Torah perspective?
That’s a big “if”. And not even the big marijuana advocates are silly enough to present arguments like that. They argue for medicinal (pain relief) purposes – that it may be a better choice than opioids, for example, and recreational purposes – that the government inconsistently forbids marijuana as a recreational activity while allowing other activities that may be more harmful.
Little Froggie,
I doubt anyone here drive a 1996
You’re right, I don’t drive a 1996. I drive a 1992. I’m guessing it has around 230K miles, but I cannot tell you for sure because the odometer was broken for a number of years. Original engine. Other than the heat, pretty much nothing else works anymore. Some of the gears are acting up, and I’m hoping the car doesn’t need a clutch job before I stop needing the car.
zahavasdad,
Has that been confirmed by the Vaad of Queens?
Neville ChaimBerlin,
That’s not trolling. When David Duke publishes his Antisemitism, it’s not trolling; he really believes the stuff. It riles people up because he’s a jerk, not a troll.
Your definition is simply not correct. Using anti-Semites as an example like you did, an infamous neo-Nazi Web site makes itself a base for what it calls a “troll army” to attack prominent Jews in the media. The neo-Nazis on that site thus really do believe what they are saying, yet refer to themselves as trolls. Additionally, governments, organizations, and political factions are increasingly resorting to online trolling as a means to advance their agendas or products.
I understand that you may be concerned about someone with honestly held controversial views who unintentionally disrupts a forum or engenders highly emotional responses being labeled a troll perhaps unfairly, or people using troll as an ad hominem to attack those with differing positions, but your redefinition of the term is much too narrow. I would broaden the definition of troll to mean someone on an online forum who attempts to provoke, surreptitiously influence (e.g., caution trolls, or sockpuppetry), or cause pain, regardless of what his/her true views are.
Yes it does, but “trolling” is not CR specific slang. It’s a popular internet slang word which just happens to be misused a lot on this site.
I’ve typically seen it used correctly here, and with a few exceptions, those identified as trolls are usually rightly identified.
Rabbi of Crawley,
The fact that you think that Jordan and Lebanon (!!!) are nice, safe places to visit does not bode well for our impressions of Britain. Like someone from Canada saying that Chicago is not so cold.
Avi K,
C’mon, don’t offer him another rabbit trail to go down just yet!
Joseph,
you didn’t add much in your last comment other than hot air
I’m only responding to the material I’m given. Try writing something more substantive than baseless insinuations and fallacious statements, and maybe you’ll get more than hot air in response.
What “tact” is lacking in explaining it? Kohanim are more chashuv and important than Yisroelim. … You see saying all that as tactless?
Yeah, that was pretty tactless. And in a world iy”H soon where we feel pulled towards the ketores, towards offering our own korbonos, and towards experiencing closeness with Hashem in the kodesh kodashim, you might want to work on that delivery when talking to your children.
Those same principles between a Kohein and Yisroel apply between a man and a woman.
Yet the man and woman case seems to be the only one that interests you. Why is that?
When the goy came to R’ Hillel and challenged him to explain the entire Torah while he stood on one foot, he did not say, “if a man and a woman both need saving but you can only save one, the man comes before the woman. That’s the Torah, the rest is commentary, now go learn it.” What did R’ Hillel say?
Regarding establishing a state, the issue is the Three Oaths.
Who said anything about establishing a state? Is someone else named Avram posting in this thread, and I can’t see his posts?
How does saying the Halacha regarding men and women provoke goyim?
You answered your own question pretty well, so if you really care, you can go back and reread your own post. However, that’s your argument, not mine. I’m not concerned with provoking the goyim in this thread. I’m concerned about protecting the Torah’s honor, and not making it into a spade for anyone’s misogynistic dig. By responding to your points regarding bris mila and shechita, I was just pointing out an interesting contradiction in your approach to Jewish interactions with the non-Jewish world.
Joseph,
So you’ve now jumped from … [blah blah blah]
The lady doth protest too much, methinks. Hamevin yavin.
Your Agagi example is incomparable since he specifically and overtly used it to attack Yidden.
Once again you make my point before I can! The example is quite apropos.
You still have failed to, despite being asked to, identify which Halachas should be toned down from being publicly discussed “even though the halachos are correct”, and what criteria you’ve come up with.
That’s not my job. Most people learn about what is and is not appropriate to say and when to say or not say it when they are young.
Toeiva, shechita, avoda zora, gender roles?
Nope, nope, nope, nope. I’m not uncomfortable with any of those concepts. You may think that attempting to bully me through insinuations that I’m influenced by goyish mores and values will be effective. Sorry, it comes off like shooting wildly in the dark.
it would be unusual and interesting but no one would get bent out of shape because he repeated it so. Even if he kept saying it to Yisroelim.
I disagree, I think it would come off as rude, condescending, weird, and creepy. That said, the reason we don’t have much of an emotional response to the differences in status between kohanim and Yisroelim is due to the long darkness of golus. We don’t remember the avoda of the Beis Hamikdash, and don’t yearn for it properly. IY”H soon may we have to have some additional sensitivity and tact in explaining why kohanim get to do things that the rest of us don’t.
If someone would present a halachic argument here, even a convoluted one, making that same argument in support of the reverse of what I showed from Halacha, I’m quite sure you wouldn’t be jumping all up and down about how terrible it is to say that.
Wrong. Obviously you don’t read much of what I write. But that’s fine.
But regarding this cited Halacha you’re embarrassed how the goyim perceive it. That’s the only motivation to be upset to hear the Halacha in public.
Wrong again. I’m not concerned with how the goyim perceive halacha at all.
If the goyim in the near future widely start deeming shechita as cruelty to animals or bris milah as child abuse, something certainly within the realm of possibility in the future
I share those fears.
I can see those with your thought process insisting we not too loudly or too much or publicly discuss shechita or mila.
Absolutely, but not CV”S because I’m “embarrassed” by those mitzvos, but because I treasure them and want to perform them without interference. It’s interesting that you seem to get that we are in golus and shouldn’t excessively provoke the goyim in regards to things like yishuv baaretz, but on other matters you seem to have no compunction to provoke. But all of that is irrelevant here. I doubt many, if any goyim are on the CR.
Joseph,
While your characterization is completely inaccurate, as I haven’t mentioned this Halacha in years (provide a few links to several examples if you feel otherwise)
Whatever. See: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/saving-a-mans-life-first for example. You’ve probably had to lay off the topic for a while to keep the mods from blocking your posts.
If someone were to repeatedly bring up in the CR in numerous threads halachos about …
Yayin nesech is certainly not controversial to discuss in the beis medrash. But consider what the Agagi did with those halachos when he went to King Ahashverosh and said, “if a fly falls into a Jew’s cup of wine, he will pluck it out and drink the wine, but if the king touches a Jew’s wine, he’ll dump it out!” That statement was 100% factual, but due to the context it was cited as an example of Haman’s evil.
If instead of this Halacha I had cited the Halacha about the requirement to save a Kohein before a Yisroel would your reaction have been as equally vocal
You just destroyed your own argument. I would have brought this up had you not. We do not have a kohen constantly reminding us of this halacha on the CR. If we did, we’d probably think there was something mentally wrong with him.
Joseph,
If a part of the Torah offended you, you should seek an explanation from a chachom rather than set off against what you don’t like or invent your own boich svara that is different than what the Halacha clearly states.
No part of the Torah offends me. Misuse of the Torah, however, does. Some parts of the Torah have very specific intent or context, or deal with very sensitive issues. If a man decided to shout out those halachos repeatedly on the subway in a mixed crowd, it’d be highly inappropriate. And a chillul Hashem. Even though the halachos are correct.
The fact that you repeatedly bring this halacha up on the CR in numerous threads indicates problems with your mindset, not the Torah.
Lightbrite,
Solaro: Aren’t bugs animals? Maybe it would be considered meat, like chicken?
Fish are animals, but their meat is pareve. Locusts would be treated like fish. Basar v’chalav (laws of meat and dairy) apply only to the animals included in the Torah D’oraisa prohibition (kosher domesticated animals) and the rabbinical extension of the prohibition (e.g., “wild” animals, fowl).
If one doesn’t have a mesora for which locusts are kosher, then none can be eaten. Do any communities other than the Teimanim have such a mesora?
Syag Lchochma,
but some in my neck of the woods are waiting with bated breath for that extra $80 in their paycheck so they can buy some amoxicillin.
Anyone paying $80 for amoxicillin is getting fleeced and the pharmacy may be doing something illegal. Even without insurance, a typical course of amoxicillin should cost around $15.
That said, I agree with you that Obamacare has not been all positive. My insurance premiums have gone up quite a bit, and prescription coverage has become poorer – though some of that may be because the cost of some drugs has skyrocketed. There are quite a few quirks and inconsistencies in the law; for example, the main driver for keeping insurance prices down in Obamacare is an influx of young, healthy policyholders via the mandate, but this influx is limited by the law itself, because it allows children to stay on their parents’ plans until age 26. Given the benefits of the law, however, I favor well thought out adjustments and modifications rather than repeal. Just axing the mandate will do nothing but make things worse.
Joseph,
הוו זהירין ברשות,שאין מקרבין לו לאדם אלא לצורך עצמן. נראין כאוהבין בשעת הנאתן, ואין עומדין לו לאדם בשעת דחקו
Baruch Hashem Who is matir assurim! And yes, we owe President Trump much hakaras hatov for taking this action, whether we voted for him or not.
Sechel HaYashar,
I agree with you that religion in general, and Yiddishkeit in particular, are endangered by the political climate. And you have articulately expressed the dangers presented by recent trends among secular Democrats. I think it’s unwise, however, to turn a blind eye to the dangers coming from Republican politics, however, which are co-opting religion for political purposes. Even if the Republican platform was closer to representing Jewish values than the Democratic platform, which I don’t believe, closer is not necessarily better. Open Orthodoxy is closer to Judaism than Reform, but presents a greater danger to the frum world.
Joseph,
Farshteit zich that we have to choose the one that is closer to our ideals, from the poor choices we’re offered.
Explain how the Republicans are a “poor choice” in your mind, because from your posts here it seems you are in complete lockstep with the party.
Why do we have to choose a party which is “closer to our ideals”? Both are too far from our ideals for that to even be a consideration. We need to vote for candidates who we think will make the best officials – all the while realizing that lev m’lochim v’sarim b’yad Hashem, but we still need to go through the motions.
This.
We don’t vote for “parties”, we vote for candidates. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats are my “team.” My team is klal Yisroel, and our mission is to serve Hashem, not score political points on the backs of perceived opponents.
Neither political party has a Torah perspective, and to try and wedge the Torah into the Republican or Democratic platform is wrong and dangerous.
For those with sensitivities to certain chemical fragrances, scented dryer sheets and detergents are awful. Sometimes I have to cross the street to avoid the fragrances when dryers are running in people’s houses.
Is this family going to call their son’s new boss to vent their fury that he has a long commute to work?
MTAB,
For each date, he had to take her out of the town so nobody would see her. So he had to plan out dates out of town and drive there after his hour drive.
So this is a little bit strange, and the young man can certainly factor this in when considering whether he wants a second date or not. Or he can talk with the young lady about it and maybe gain some perspective. But ultimately it was his choice to go with it, and a mature adult takes responsibility for his decisions.
The family is furious at me for enabling the whole thing. And I hear their point. But their fury really should be directed at the system which uses up the boys.
Wait, the family is furious? And at YOU for the young man deciding to go on a third date? Sounds like this young lady really dodged a bullet.
MTAB,
No, it’s a whole lot of good points. Put yourself in the boy’s shoes if you are capable of empathy.
Wait, you’re asking me to show empathy, when while addressing potential discomfort for the young lady, you retorted that life is full of discomforts? And complaining about a young man’s hour long drive for a date is most certainly whining. Cry me a river! The commute for my first job was an hour each way, plus three miles of walking, rain, snow, or sunshine. The commute for my second job was also an hour each way of driving through brutal traffic. And guess what? Nobody gives out medals of valor for commuting. You want something? You have to work for it.
And at the end of the day, the young man made his own choice. He’s not a slave. He’s free to stay in the comforts of his home and look for a young lady who lives in his town. He chose to travel a longer distance in order to increase his prospects. The long drive was a known part of that choice.
Look at what I’m saying, the guy is doing everything.
The young man is free to do or not do whatever he pleases. All of the responses in this thread are simply suggesting what is polite and would make a good impression.
That is not good even for the date. It creates a situation where the girl is passive and passive people tend to be judgmental. They have nothing to do but judge. People need to be busy. Haimish dating leaves the girl with nothing to do but expect.
The funny thing is, the young women say the same thing. That they have to be and look perfect, and the young man judges them based on a short and superficial first impression. Stop making this into a male vs. female war, and just accept that dating is hard on everyone, and move on.
It’s amazing how everybody acknowledges the shidduch crisis but yet most are resistent to any changes in our methods, even though we picked up half of them from the goyim.
The shidduch crisis certainly does not bolster your argument. And what exactly did we pick up from the goyim? And rather than complaining about what is, how about sharing some ideas of your own?
MTAB,
Let me see if I understand. The guy asks the girl out or calls the shadchan who gives him a number. He makes the call, then must ask her out, then must travel to her, then must think of something wonderful to do and it can’t be in her neighborhood because someone might see her, then he must pay for the wonderful activity and the whole time make sure she is perfectly comfy in all ways. And if he stumbles in any these steps, then she must run because obviously he is an axe murderer. Her job is to judge him.
That’s a whole lot of whining. Look, do you want to eat? If yes, then you must find a source of income, travel to the store, pick out what wonderful foods you can find and afford, buy it, shlep it home, put it away, prepare a meal, go to the table, and eat it. And cleaning up after yourself is a bonus. The way of the world is that you have to put in effort. Does a young man want a wife? Then he must put in the effort. Be a man.
Do I have it right? Wonderful system.
What would you suggest? Going to bars like non-Jews? Have the young women call the men and set up the dates? I doubt men would fare better in that situation.
do you have sons? You want them to go through this nonsense?
Please Hashem.
slominer,
At what age is it kinda late to wait to, to start toilet training a toddler?
I think between 2 and 3 years old is most common, though a few kids might show readiness before 2, and a few may not be fully ready until 4. Beyond that, one should probably schedule a visit to the doctor to rule out any underlying problems. Nighttime bed-wetting beyond age 4 is more common than many parents (and kids) think, and doesn’t necessarily mean there’s a problem.
Chabadshlucha,
There really was a plan a. However what I said still stands.
You said that the etz pri hadaas was essentially a set-up. By this do you mean that, despite the fact that Hashem told Adam to not eat from the tree, He meant for them to? Sorry, I have a hard time believing that our Creator, who commanded us not to put a stumbling block before the blind, and who said through His prophet, “choose life!” would desire a sin and the death it brought.
Sounds like you never heard of the concept before.
I have, but never from an Orthodox Jew.
So I guess it could be another discussion if you want. I may need hypo on up the sources though, so is this only foreign to avrammd? Abs others can fill in?
Go right ahead.
Chabadshlucha,
But he knows that Hashem set up Adam and Chava for chet etz hadaas so really He wanted the system to work this way.
Woah wait, stop the wagon. I cannot for one second believe that Hashem commanded Adam and Chava to not eat from the etz pri hadaas while secretly wanting them to, so that their sin somehow caused the world to function in the way He intended to. That is completely contrary to the plain meaning of the pesukim, and it implies, CV”S, that Hashem is deceptive. Yet, as we say every day at the end of Shema: Hashem Elokeichem Emes. It is clear that Hashem did not want Adam and Chava to eat from the tree, and that their doing so resulted in extremely negative consequences for the world, and required adjustments to Hashem’s plans for humanity, most notably the exile from Gan Eden.
Convenient answers to your question are that man, not G-d, causes suffering due to sinning. And that suffering is a kapara. And that suffering yields opportunities for a man to elevate himself, such as the testing of the Avos. These answers are all true, but probably feel distant and cold to someone who, G-d forbid, has a child who is suffering. Nobody knows the answer to your question, because we cannot understand even the tiniest fraction of Hashem’s perspective. All I know is we do not see the whole picture, and Hashem loves us more than we can know. And it’s ok to cry.
I second Kirkland Signature (Costco) as good quality non “name” brand paper towels.
BaltimoreMaven,
Calm down, this is the CoffeeRoom.