Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
litvishechossid,
“For all those supporting the Artscroll “swipeless” system, you are forgetting the fact that you have to swipe to vehi noam, on motzei Shabbos in between shemona esrei and Aleinu which is so annoying and takes you out of focus.”
I think this is an issue of personal preference. I would rather flip to vehi noam once per week on motzei Shabbos rather than having to skip forward two pages five times a week. Also, I’m guessing Artscroll wants to keep the vehi noam together with all of the other additional pesukim that some say after Shabbos. Absent having a separate machzor for every single daily permutation, there’s no way to avoid the need to flip around the siddur entirely. By using the same siddur regularly, one can become pretty familiar with the flips. One place I do get thrown is by the sefiras haomer tables, but there is no way to get around it unfortunately (with a printed siddur – yes cell phone people, I anticipate your response).
zahavasdad,
“it is a bigger mitzvah to eat Kosher if you are tempted not to, than if you are repulsed by a non-kosher food item.”
Yes, but the ideal goal is to then train oneself to the point where there is no longer a temptation. Overcoming trials in service of Hashem is definitely among the most praiseworthy things a person can do, but your statement painted a picture of a BT as a person one sniff away from potentially sinning or going OTD.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“I think what he meant with the lobster case is that a BT is used to having eaten it his whole life.”
The statement didn’t seem to indicate a concern that the BT might accidentally eat lobster because he was used to doing it his whole life. It implied that the BT would be in danger of being overcome by a yetzer to eat it if he merely smelled it.
DaMoshe,
I really like these thoughts, thank you for sharing them!
DovidBT,
“A BT who’s eaten lobster has made a conscious decision to stop eating it”
Thank you for stating this. I felt that the original comment was quite demeaning to BTs.
Takes2-2tango,
“The original question still remains even with all the bans in place
How can one trust ones self.
For example:
Your out in idaho on a business trip and you have no kosher food,how can you trust yourself from not walking into wendys?
Or your in bed and your very tired, how can you trust yourself not to miss zman krias shma?
What kinda bans according to u are out there? So my question still isnt answered . Why are we only concerned about yrusting ourselves with intetnet?
Do we trust ourselves with loshon hora??”This is the fallacy of reductio ad absurdum, and I doubt you’re making a serious argument. But I’ll share my personal answers anyway.
1. Among the population who have and listen to rebbeim, there is not a widespread eating at Wendy’s problem. So making blanket gedarim for Wendy’s is superfluous, though as DY pointed out, if an individual has an unusually strong taiva, he should not even go anywhere near the restaurant. In contrast, there is a widespread misuse of smartphones/internet problem.
2. There are actually halachos in place because we don’t trust ourselves to remember to daven/say shema. For example, if it is time to daven maariv, one should daven before eating the evening meal to avoid forgetting, getting tired, and going to bed. At the end of the day though, the spiritual dangers involved with smartphones are worse than accidentally forgetting maariv because you couldn’t stay awake. As far as oversleeping past the zman in the morning, it’s again not a widespread problem, but if one does have trouble getting up, he should for sure not trust himself and set an alarm clock. Changes to his sleeping habits if possible, or even a trip to the doctor might be in order.
3. As others have written already earlier in the thread, we are concerned with trusting ourselves or having accidents in many different situations, hence hilchos yichud, hilchos nidda, much of hilchos kashrus, the time we stop eating chometz on erev Pesach, etc. etc. Your assertion that it is just the internet we worry about is spurious.
4. No, we certainly don’t trust ourselves with lashon hara! Hence the laws against avak lashon hara, living in a place where lashon hara is rampant, hearing others speak it, etc.
zahavasdad,
“Driving in many frum jewish neighborhoods I see fancy Chanderliers and fancy Italian furniture”
1. Ornate home decor is not “hip”, and in fact may be the opposite. The statement such items make is, “I am wealthy”, which may have its own faults, but is not the same.
2. I’m not sure it’s a good idea to be looking into other people’s houses, particularly when driving. It might make people feel uncomfortable, and it might cause you to sideswipe a parked car.
“My issue with hemish foods is not the foods themselves”
The rather graphic descriptions you give to some heimish foods indicates otherwise.
“but rather the way people treat it , Like its holy or something, There is a book Ive quoted before which says one should eat Chulent for melava Malka instead of Pizza because there is something special about Chulent . If you want to eat Pizza for Melava Melka, enjoy yourself”
1. Don’t hold the frum community as a whole responsible for something you read in a book somewhere.
2. The point may not have been heimish food vs. non-heimish per se, but rather the idea that just as we consume “special” foods on Shabbos, perhaps we should do the same for the melave malka. If sushi is your idea of a special Shabbos food, then have that for the melave malka. Pizza is more akin to fast food, weekday food. My grandfather didn’t even consider it fit for a regular meal – he saw it as a dessert. This may be where the author of your book is coming from.
3. Holy may be taking things a step too far, but given that human beings are social creatures, culture will always have an impact. And like it or not, “heimish” foods are a part of the tapestry of frum culture, and thus do have some significance. That’s why they’re called “heimish” in the first place.
“or someone posted something before that Gefiltle had the Ta’am of Shabbos while Sushi was just fancy fish.”
A million times more than my comment about the book: Don’t hold the frum community as a whole responsible for something you’ve read on the CR.
“The only reason Gefile might remind anyone of Shabbos because people rarely eat it during the week and people rarely eat Sushi on Shabbos (It doesnt refrigerate well, otherwise Id use it ). If people would eat Sushi on Shabbos, then it would have the Ta’am of Shabbos.”
You just explained why gefilte fish is culturally regarded as a Shabbos food while sushi is not better than I could. Gefilte fish, probably because it’s prepared such that one doesn’t have to remove bones, is culturally associated with Shabbos. Sushi, which spoils quickly, tends to be less frequently seen on Shabbos. So what’s the big deal?
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“I like your point, but davening with Yitzchok Yair would in no way prepare you for these situations. It only has the shir shel yom after musaf and only has bameh madlikin before maariv.”
That is true for the shir shel yom (I thought there was a note, but checked and it is not so), but by bameh madlikin there is a Gadolhadorah kavanna-destroying note at the top of the page that some are noheig to say it after maariv.
Gadolhadorah,
If spreading the word about healthy eating is your true goal, what is the purpose of your fixation with the highly processed meat substitute tofu in the face of very little agreement that it is a good substitute for meat? Why not promote eating a variety of whole grains, fruits, and vegetables?
zahavasdad,
“Food is a personal choice, I just gave my opinion”
Yes, I understand that, but it astonishes me (not really, but I like the word choice you made) that you are polite with regard to tofu, stating that although you are “not a fan”, that those who like it have a right to their opinion, but by culturally Jewish foods, you are much more impolite in your description and intolerant of opposing opinions.
zahavasdad,
“Exactly how Sushi is related to Smartphones is beyond me”
I think the opposition to sushi is not because it was a food that our ancestors didn’t eat, but because it’s a symbol of secular hipster “foodie” culture, which some feel is not good for spiritual growth. Personally I think sushi is common enough nowadays (most grocery stores carry pre-made packages of it – certainly not “hip”) that it doesn’t really make a cultural statement anymore.
zahavasdad,
“frankly it astonishes me that there are people who think some minced cheap fish dish that is served in cut up roll is better than Sushi”
“Food is a very personal choice, just because you like or dont like something doesnt mean other people feel the same way” -zahavasdad
lesschumras,
“on days like this past rosh chodesh, i like davening from the siddur on my phone. Why? Because it’s intuitive a nd eliminates searching and skipping”
And best of all, even on do-not-disturb mode, the app notifications keep appearing at the top of the page, so we don’t have to let our shemoneh esrei stop us from seeing the latest text or email that comes in.
litvishechossid,
“Everyone knows that there are tefillos that are designated for certain holidays. Besides it usually says what the Tefilla is for and you dont need to skip pages in order to skip that paragraph. Its different than having something printed that you dont say at all.”
My question was more directed at Gadolhadorah’s assertion that inclusion of different customs disturbed her kavannah. Perhaps she has experience with siddurim that are completely cluttered with multiple versions of each tefilla, at which point I can maybe understand her point. But I personally have not seen many siddurim like that. The typical Artscroll siddur, for example, has just a few places with variations. A siddur that tries to work for communities in both E”Y and Ch”L may have a few more, but the amount of space and skipping involved with these variations is far less than what is required to address the variations based on time of year within a single custom. What I am curious about is the sense that, based on her wording, the disruption to her kavannah is due to hashkafic reasons rather than visual.
“If you know other minhagim does that mean when you come across a nusach other than your own then you will suddenly say different tefillos since you “practiced” by seeing them in your siddur and skipping them until the time is right?”
No, not what I meant at all. Here’s some examples: On Friday nights, my custom is to say the 2nd chapter of mishnayos Shabbos right after saying “Mizmor shir l’yom haShabbos” and “Hashem malach geius laveish” and a mourners kaddish, but I have davened in other shuls where it is said at a different time. I say the psalm for the day of the week after mussaf on Shabbos and Yom Tov, but I have been to shuls where it is said after shacharis. Knowing that these are possibilities reduces that moment of, “what on earth??” when I encounter such a variation.
Gadolhadorah,
If you’re avoiding meat for health reasons, you might not be doing yourself favors with tofu. Tofu is made from processed soybeans, which aren’t very healthy. A lentil soup in the crock pot would supply an excellent amount of plant based protein.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“Yes and no. If you had a family custom to use a certain Siddur and say exactly every word of its print, that would certainly be more desirable than one that includes verses you just have to know to skip.”
As I said before, even if you have a siddur that fits your customs like a glove, you’ll still have to skip things like shir hamaalos before shema when it’s not the aseres yemei tshuva, hakeil hakadosh vs hamelech hakadosh, yaalei v’yavo, al hanissim, long tachanun when it’s not Monday or Thursday, etc. One cannot escape skipping/flipping completely, so one has to work out coping mechanisms to maintain kavanna. Usually that’s accomplished through using the same siddur daily and becoming extremely familiar with it. So while having a siddur that matches your personal nusach exactly is better than one that does not to some degree, it seems like a small potato to me in the bigger picture, and I was curious as to why it tops Gadolhadorah’s list. That she used the phrase “hashkafa” rather than nusach or custom to describe the differences was also curious.
“It would make it easier to teach your kids your family Nusach also, rather than having to say “we don’t say this, we do say this, etc.””
I can counter-argue that it’s beneficial for a child to know that there are different customs, and to be told which one is his or hers. That way when s/he encounters variations, s/he is not confused. If a child can be expected to learn to skip over yaalei v’yavo when it’s not Rosh Chodesh or Chol Hamoed, certainly s/he can learn to skip or say the parentheticals in “b’rich shmei” before leining or aleinu at the end of davening.
Gadolhadorah,
“having too many choices offered by the siddur when davening is really hard on my kavanah”
I personally daven for the most part from the Artscroll “Yitzchak Yair” siddur, which I imagine is one of the types you are criticizing. In my experience, the variants in community nusach that are included as parentheticals/gray highlights are much less prevalent than the seasonal variants, e.g., yaalei v’yavo for Rosh Chodesh/Y”T, Al Hanissim for Chanuka/Purim, etc. I can’t imagine that you would want a siddur without these additions, and I’m sure with daily use your eyes can find and follow the flow of the tefilla even when these blocks are skipped. Why is it different or more difficult with the few other additions based on community?
Shopping613,
I completely agree with you that there is no way for anyone to know another person’s cheshbonos and challenges, regardless of background. I must point out, however, that there is no comparison between cousins, uncles and nephews, or even grandparents and grandchildren, to parents and children. Everyone will have to refuse or explain something awkward to his non-frum relative or neighbor at some point, but that is very different from a son, anguished but knowing it must be done, having to comfort his weeping mother who realizes that he cannot come to her home for Pesach sedarim anymore.
TGIShabbos,
“Many shidduch offerings were not ‘religious enough’ for them, but were somehow suitable for other FFB yeshivish guys who became engaged. Disposing ALL of their colored dress shirts (I didn’t need to go shopping those years). Not wanting to EVER return back to their non-religious home, although they said their parents were respectful and accommodating- “
It’s possible that these behaviors were expressions of religious fervor, but more likely they came from a place of immaturity. Turning down shidduchim could indicate a fear of commitment, for example, and the rejection of their parents despite accommodation could have simply been teenage rebelliousness. Building a healthy frum lifestyle requires a solid foundation: faith in Hashem and recognition of the Torah as truth, a clear plan for spiritual and religious growth, and a rabbi as a mentor and posek.
Avi K,
“1.”Yid” in English is a pejorative. Archie Bunker used it.”
So is “Jew”. And so what? This is not the real reason you have a problem with people using Yiddish; it’s just a deflection.
“2. Someone who wears peyot and tzitziot outside as an expression of pride rather than for halachic reasons has a problem.”
I disagree. Pride is not the best reason to wear peyos and tzitzis out, but if someone is going to feel proud of something, why not be proud of his Yiddishkeit?
“He has turned them into fashion symbols, like wearing a magen David.”
No, he is simply a person using dress as self-identification. Hashem requires us to wear tzitzis and to not destroy the corners of our beards. These are halachic parameters on our fashion, and there’s nothing wrong with using them to self-identify as a Jew, or even more specifically, a chassid, Yeshivish, etc. Don’t kid yourself, a kippa sruga is no less a fashion statement than long peyos, especially inside the Jewish world.
Joseph,
“What to one person’s shitta is beyond the minimum, to another person’s shitta isn’t even the bare minimum.”
Understood. Given that the OP asked whether or not to wear the peyos out front or long tzitzis in a work situation, and also refers to these hiddurim as expressions of pride (rather than, say, obligation), I don’t think this is the case here.
huju,
“Peyos and tzisis are not expressions of “Jewish pride.” They are fulfillments of mitzvos. Period. And “Jewish pride” is an egregious, misplaced emotion. Tznius is about humility, not “Jewish pride.””
The OP is not talking about just having peyos and tzitzis, but the very public display of them and going beyond the minimum (e.g., long tzitzis, long curly peyos) in a place where that is not common. Also, what do peyos and tzitzis have to do with tznius?
Avi K,
“As for working only with and for YEHUDIM (let the creole German rest in peace), make aliya.”
Because there certainly is no prejudice against people wearing Chareidi garb in the Israeli workforce…
Exhibit A: You can’t even tolerate a single word of Yiddish. Doesn’t bode well for cultural acceptance.
Avi K,
Have you ever received any help from your parents or others? If so, then get off your haughty perch. Nothing in zahavasdad’s story indicates that the husband and wife are not working. Financial independence is important, but nobody starts out financially independent, and you cannot simply flip a switch to get it. It takes hard work and time.
mik5,
It seems like you already have some opinions on this: https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/how-to-remain-a-ben-torah-after-leaving-kollel/#post-1329039
As far as how to dress when being reprimanded, I think one should dress just as he does every day at the office. Accept responsibility and apologize where appropriate, and be prepared with a plan of action to remedy the situation and prevent future occurrences.
RebYidd23,
That’s beginning to blur the boundaries between knish and kreplach, and I think that’s forbidden by the Torah.
They taste different to me. Round knishes are more like mashed potatoes with a crust. And they can get filled with things like beef, or broccoli. Square knishes are crispier, and usually not adulterated.
Meno,
Square or round ones?
“1. cant eat gebructs”
Has Celiac disease, got it.
“2. he has to take his plate into the kitchen to clean them after the friday night seudah.”
Ability to turn 1 plate into more than one, in other words clumsy, got it.
“3. he has to wear his hat and jacket”
Not a clothing thief, got it.
“4. he must know shas”
Know, or know of?
“5. his tatty must be rich”
His father is happy with what he has, got it.
“6. his name has to be either moishe or yanky.”
But he can’t have both of those names, got it.
DovidBT,
What if it had been raining?
In CTLAWYER’s town, rain only falls at night, when nobody is out driving. This was enacted by a town ordinance back in 1978.
DaasYochid,
Tell me, do you happen to post under any other screennames? How many times has the YWN admin needed to Ctrl Alt Del to restart his server because of your ubiquitous posts adding your 2scents everywhere? Be a mentch1, Uncle Ben, and give Health (or should I say Meno??) my regards.
Little Froggie, I mean, Avram in MD.
PS – the biggest risk from eating contests is choking
Eating contests are extremely dangerous and should not be done.
Gadolhadorah,
“one has to wonder whether it might not be more respectful and create considerably less confusion to use the Rav’s actual name.”
More respectful? Don’t know. Less confusing? Perhaps. But then it would be less fun!
Gezuntheit!
1. Coffee grounds added to compost make a good fertilizer
2. You can share it by bringing it into your office or Yeshiva coffee room (too bad you can’t bring it here)
3. Coffee cake
4. Drink 7 cups a day
5. Feed it to Joseph’s dogs (kidding – don’t do this)CTLAWYER,
“There is no history of damage/accidents in our High school parking lot.”
Oh yeah? Well in MY town, every Thursday children get free rides on flying unicorns in the park. And if a banged up car remains overnight in my town, by morning it looks miraculously like new. Sometimes it even transforms into a later year model.
Joseph,
“No, I’m proposing the law be consistent. Either allow insurance carriers to discriminate premiums based on gender and race or disallow either.”
Discriminating directly based on race would be a violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but that law and subsequent amendments do not address gender. However, auto insurance companies do indirectly discriminate based on race: they charge different rates by zip code, and predominantly minority zip codes tend to have much higher rates than predominantly white zip codes.
sissel613_,
“Seriously???”
No, not at all.
CTLAWYER,
“The average 17 year old at the public high school is driving a BMW 3 series or Audi A6.”
High school parking lots are where cars go to become transformed into golf balls. The body shop owners in your town must be millionaires.
Joseph,
“Isn’t it strange that state laws allow insurance companies to discriminate auto insurance premiums based upon gender but not based upon race?”
Health insurance used to charge women higher premiums than men, until Obamacare made it illegal to do so. Are you proposing new Federal regulations of the auto insurance industry… Obamacar?
square root of 2,
“why would we be instructed (by the torah, as catch yourself so brilliantly pointed out;” a halachic principle”, to quote the pearls of DY) to, in essence, ignore that very concept that the world is actually being created every moment, and act as if it’s autonomous?”
Doesn’t the very fact that the Torah has to instruct us to make this assumption a priori rather than leaving it as an unspoken empirical assumption speak to the fact that Hashem is constantly sustaining the world?
I think the idea that “scientists” group together in a vast conspiracy is pretty funny. Scientists in general are fiercely competitive, territorial, and love to knock competitors’ research whenever they can.
Forshayer,
“The look of unbridled love that one gets from a wife or child when he is their best friend.”
Do you really equate the love of a spouse or a child to that of a dog?? I’m 100% fine with dog ownership, as long as the dog owner recognizes that what he has is a dog, not a miniature fur-covered human being.
Ctrl Alt Del,
“I’m so done…….”
I think this is becoming your signature line on this thread 😉
Also, you do realize that Toi was responding sarcastically to the OP, right?
CTLAWYER,
I like minivans and vans, and so does my wife. And if I drove a Jaguar sports car or a super-luxury car around town, I think my face would be beet red. To each his own.
TheWizard,
“Is it hashkaficaly appropriate that when the husband and wife go out together with the car or minivan”
Car or minivan, husband should drive. Anything bigger (e.g., 12 passenger Ford Transit, Nissan NV, etc.) wife should drive. This is because of Toi’s point. The stinky driving, which is a liability in small vehicles, becomes an asset in larger vehicles, since people will move out of the way and you will get to your destination more quickly.
Mammele,
“yet water usage is part of a cycle as well, which still doesn’t prevent these wise environmentalists from warning us not to consume too much water even in places with ample water supply.”
Is there a big push in the NYC metro area to conserve water? If so, is the reason based on supply/environmental factors, or economic/infrastructure considerations?