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Chabadshlucha,
“I remember the time in high school when we heard how that day’s story in Yeshiva was that a visiting Rebbe had asked a Lubavitcher bochur a question. The bochur reverently listened, and then registered shock, before he recovered and answered.
The teacher was curious what had transpired, so he asked the bochur what had happened. The bochur said the Rebbe had asked him what the good tourist sights were. He hadn’t expected such a question from a Rebbe.”
You forgot the end of the story. As the rebbe left, his attendant asked him, “why did you ask that bochur about tourist sites when you’re planning to spend the day in the beis medrash?” The rebbe replied, “nu, it’s a mitzva to love every Jew, so I talked to him about his own interests!”
Meno,
“First let’s take a simple case: Light travels 186,282 miles per second. Let’s say I’m running in a straight line at 1000 miles per second, and lightning strikes exactly 186,282 miles ahead of me. How much time passes (on my watch) before I see the lightning? The answer, I believe, is exactly 1 second, because light travels the same speed in every reference frame – that’s Einstein’s chiddush.”
Correct.
“So now the train example. To make it simpler, lets say the train is 372,564 miles long (2 x 186,282 miles). The guy on the platform sees both lightning strikes simultaneously after 1 second – simple. But why doesn’t the guy on the train also see them simultaneously? Why is it different from my case? Is my conclusion in my case incorrect?”
The flashes were 186,282 miles from each observer, so they both figure that the light from each flash took 1 second to reach them. But the observer on the platform saw the flashes as happening at the same time, and the one on the train saw the flash at the head of the train happen first. In the inertial frame of the platform observer, the man on the train was moving away from the light coming from the back flash and towards the light of the front flash, so the light from the front flash traveled less than 186,282 miles before reaching him, and the light from the back flash traveled further than 186,282. But to the man on the train, the light from each flash traveled exactly 186,282 miles before reaching him.
Doing my best,
Why? The light in front of him moved closer to him when the train moved towards it. (the same way when two cars go towards each other they meet other faster then when only one moves.) however, he is sort of running away from the photons behind him, so it will take them longer to hit him, however they are still there.”
Why are the photons playing “catch-up” with the man on the train, and not the man on the platform? What’s special about the platform man that you take his side? Let’s dispense with the train and the platform, and say our two men are in spaceships whizzing past each other out in open space. And let’s say each man believed his spaceship to be at rest (“Full stop, ensign!” “Yes, captain!”). One man therefore thinks that he is “stopped”, and the other ship is moving past him, and the other thinks that his ship is “stopped”, and the other ship is moving past him! And suddenly there are two flashes of light nearby both ships. Both men think that his own ship is stopped, and the light from both flashes is moving towards each of the men at the speed of light. For one, the flashes were simultaneous, and for the other, they were not. Which is right? Both, relative to their own inertial frame of reference!
Doing my best,
“Yes, but the man on the platform will not see the strikes at the same time. This should prove that it is not only movement which can change your perception.”
True, he wouldn’t, but he’d know that the strikes occurred at different distances from him, and, doing the math, he’d still calculate that the strikes occurred simultaneously. Setting up the thought experiment with the two strikes being equidistant from both observers is done for simplicity, but it doesn’t change the fact that in one man’s inertial frame of reference the strikes were simultaneous, and in the other man’s frame of reference they were not.
Also, if the man on the train had super long hands and one was in front of the train and and the other in back, he would feel both strikes at the same time.
No he wouldn’t. Let’s say his nerve signals could go from his hands to his brain at the speed of light, i.e., the signals are moving towards his brain at the same speed as the light from the flashes (in reality they go more than a million times slower). As we saw above, the light/nerve signal from the front of the train arrives to his brain before the light/nerve signal from the back of the train. So he both sees and feels the strikes as non-simultaneous. The truth is, they were non-simultaneous to him. Just as much as they were simultaneous to the guy on the platform.
And even though he sees them at different times, that’s because of the fact that the back light hasn’t hit him, but it’s still there.”
That can only make sense if the speed of light from one flash was slower than the speed of light from the other flash, which is impossible.
Joseph,
“The issue is the president is falsely accused of supporting them. He needn’t denounce every group his political opponents and media haters demand he denounce based on their false insinuations of his support.”
This post is quite surprising coming from you. I never knew you were an Obama supporter.
Health,
“Pres. Trump is NOT PC & feels no need to defend his comments! Therefore if right wackos decide to turn his words around – he doesn’t respond!”
And that is wrong. Words matter. Communication matters.
“Trump remembers a world that wasn’t guided by PC. He lives in that world. Unfortunely you only live in your PC World, NOT the Real World!”
If it were the 1950s, Donald Trump would have had his mouth washed out with soap by now. This “not PC” nonsense is just an excuse to be false, uncivil, and nasty.
Joseph,
“Avram, suspecting President Trump of the type of wink wink anti-Semitism you describe by implication without explicitness is absurd given Trump’s proven track record … of being an overt Oheiv Yisroel”
Lol, this is the classic “I’m not racist, some of my best friends are black!” retort. It’s not absurd at all. I do not think that Donald Trump subscribes to the racial animus towards Jews espoused by Nazi ideology – in other words, I think he sees Jews as “white”. However, I do think he subscribes to the Jews secretly control the world/desire wealth above all else tropes. But at the end of the day he is a believer in the-ends-justify-the-means. Therefore, he is willing to work with this supposed Jewish cabal to get his financial, political, and attention-getting desires met where applicable, and he is equally willing to rail against the cabal to his base in order to get their votes, while keeping it subtle enough to not completely upset the former collaborations.
Doing my best,
“Anyone know more about this? or how this would work?”
Einstein used a thought experiment involving a speeding train to demonstrate that time is relative to the inertial frame of the observer.
Suppose there is a speeding train, and there is a man in the middle of this train. Another man is sitting at a platform outside of the train as it speeds past. Right as the middle of the train is passing the platform, the man on the platform sees lightning strike both ends of the train simultaneously. What does the man inside the train observe? As light from the lightning heads towards his eyes, the train is moving in the direction of one of the bolts, and away from the other. Thus, the light from the lightning strike at the front of the train has a shorter distance to travel to the eyes of the man in the train than the light from the strike in the back. So he’d say the strikes were not simultaneous.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“If you interpret every time someone criticizes globalism as “the Jews control the world,” then you have apparently been programmed to be subconsciously anti-semitic.”
It doesn’t matter how I interpret it. It matters how the white supremacists interpret it. I think the whole “globalist vs. capitalist” dichotomy is a false one anyway.
“If people interpret what he says as this mythical “wink” you liberals”
“You liberals”, wow. Calm down the keyboard warfare there, realize that I am a human being and that I’m not your enemy, and talk to me like a human being. Thank you.
“love to bring up, that isn’t his problem. He can’t refrain from talking about the real issues like globalism and immigration just because a small fraction of rightists will take the rhetoric too far.”
Actually, that is his problem. And it would be quite a simple thing to clarify, “oh, when I say globalists, I do not mean Jews, and I wholeheartedly condemn and reject anyone who twists my words in order to peddle anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.” Yet has he said anything of the sort?
Health,
“Stop with your lies about Trump!”
I have not lied. Sorry. כל הפוסל במומו פוסל
“Where were you when Obama was president?!?”
What does this have to do with President Trump?
“We don’t even know whether Obama is an Antisemite or not, because it was hidden.”
Given his lame duck slap of Israel via the UN and his administration’s general tone-deafness, I’d say it was quite possible. President Obama’s rhetoric reflected the anti-Semitism on the left (anti-Israel, anti-milah, anti-shechita, etc.), while President Trump’s rhetoric stirs up the anti-Semitism on the right (Jews control the world and seek to undermine nations, are polluters of purity, etc.). I’m happy to call out both, but the latter is more threatening and imminently dangerous right now.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“Conspiracies against Jews leading to Antisemitism are out there, but they aren’t being spread by Trump”
Yes they are. Every time he rails against the globalist conspiracy to ruin America, the white supremacists wink and say hamevin yavin (well, not exactly that, but you know what I mean).
Gadolhadorah,
“To those idiots like Limbaugh, Savage etc,, I’d just wish one of these “toys” shows up in their mailbox so we can wish whats left of them a refuah shelamah.”
And this rhetoric is just as terrible as what you’re so bothered by from the other “side”.
Yes, I have seen anti-Semitic Yelp reviews of kosher restaurants. I’ve also seen ignorant complaints, e.g., stupid pizza place, they had no pepperoni! Or, stupid burger place, they had no cheese! The writing on this review is so poor and incoherent, I can’t be 100% sure that it’s purely anti-Semitic. If the owner/manager indeed was verbally abusing the staff, if the food did indeed smell bad, and if the reviewer’s request for a menu was indeed met with profanity and hostility, then the 1-star rating would certainly be justified. I do not understand the comment about only religious Jews eating there being a catalyst for walking out. If he was uncomfortable with religious Jews, then yes, it would be anti-Semitic. If he meant that the only patrons eating there seemed to be a captive clientele, i.e., there were only religious Jews in there, and they were only there because it was the sole kosher restaurant in the vicinity, then it wouldn’t necessarily be anti-Semitic. But at any rate, it’s very poorly worded.
Well Health, what’s the latest false-flag conspiracy spin on this?
“Why send so many?!?”
As you said, to scare e/o!
“These devices weren’t meant to do tons of harm.”
They were packed with shards of glass. No, these weren’t meant to take out a city block, but they do seem to be designed to kill or maim the ones opening them.
“Why not send very powerful ones?”
Because that would require greater intelligence, skill, and resources than this guy likely had. And more powerful bombs would be heavier and harder to send in the mail.
RebYidd23,
“We don’t need to change their minds. We only need to vaccinate their children.”
Can’t do the latter without the former.
Civility, listening, empathetic communication, and evidence-based persuasion rather than fear tactics and threats.
Anti-vaxxers are not selfish. They love their children more than anyone else does, fear for their safety more than anyone else does, and want to do what is best for them, no matter what anyone else says. And this is exactly what they are supposed to be doing as parents. We are living in a generation where trust has completely broken down. Conservatives don’t trust the government, and think doctors are tools of the government. Liberals don’t trust Big Pharma, and think that doctors are Big Pharma’s drug dealers. Both feel that these big, scary entities do not have their children’s best interests at heart. And when a harried doctor steps into the exam room and explodes at a parent who spent 45 minutes in the waiting room before raising a concern about a vaccine, or the aggressive vaccine schedule, and gives no reassurance, no information, and does not acknowledge the fear that is behind the concern, and instead threatens to refuse care to the child, how is that going to help change minds?
coffee addict,
“How does this guy who sent the bombs know where all these people live
I don’t think you can find it in the white pages”
Google is much more effective than the White Pages.
1,
“Anyone with a brain should be questioning the legitimacy of the story, especially after it was confirmed that the package sent to CNN was harmless.”
There have been numerous instances of white powder getting mailed to prominent figures, and subsequent analysis showing that the powder is harmless. Sometimes the intent is to terrify, not necessarily kill.
Health,
“The reason I’m thinking that – because no one was killed or injured.”
No, the reason you’re thinking that is because you believe that anyone who happens to have a different political viewpoint than you do must be evil incarnate. Overwhelmingly, a person who mails a bomb to someone else does not like that person. As for why no one was killed or injured, there are numerous reasons that are far more plausible than a false-flag conspiracy, including:
1. Many of the recipients are high profile figures, and thus their mail is screened carefully
2. Once Soros received the suspicious package, everyone else became much more careful with their mail
3. If the bomber made the packages too easy to detonate, they likely would kill postal workers in the sorting room rather than the intended target, so s/he made them harder to detonate, which increased the chances of their getting discovered before detonationNeville ChaimBerlin,
“He’s managed to get like 60% of this thread to be about women going outside when it was supposed to be about Chabad hats lol”
Meh, smooshed hats are boring. Given your 60% figure, had this thread stayed on topic it would’ve been less than half as long.
laskern,
Yup, insulting and denigrating people and their culture will definitely get them on board with you. Good work turning medical policy into a radioactive political football, MK Malinovsky!
Joseph,
“Was exercising and mental health concerns non-issues from the time of Sarah Imainu through Chazal and the Mechaber of S”A that all cited this restriction, and they only became relevant for the first time in history in recent years?”
Stop for a minute and think. Today we have cars that allow us to travel for miles while sitting down. We have washing machines, so we don’t have to schlep clothing down to the creek and use a washboard. We have electric stoves and running water, so no more bringing firewood into the house and trips to and from the well with heavy pails. The need for exercise has always existed, but in our generation the opportunities to get it via our daily routine have all but disappeared.
A king who feels compelled to remind his subjects over and over again that he can boss them around whenever he wants may still be a king, but he is also a small and foolish buffoon. And his subjects will dream of dethroning him.
Want respect? Be respectable. Want deference? Be worthy of it. Want to be a leader? Stop bloviating about how you have a right to be a leader and LEAD.
WolfishMusings,
“Again, where in my OP did you see that I was arguing with anyone — wiser or not?”
Why assume that 1 was referring specifically to you? He did not explicitly address you in his post.
Joseph,
“And that both blessings need to equally be replaced”
V’ein kol chadash tachas hashemesh. It’s amazing how the OO copy what the Conservative movement R”L already did decades ago, thinking somehow it’s going to have different results.
RebYidd23,
“you are the only one who cares”
I think the OO activities provoke more objections than the Conservative and Reform movements because they refer to themselves as “Orthodox”, whereas the other movements do not.
Gadolhadorah,
“For many yidden, it is more natural for them to move around when they are talking, so it would make more sense that they are relaxed and able to communicate with the Ebeshter in whatever format make it the most effective for them.”
This doesn’t take into account the fact that there are other people davening in the shul who may be disturbed by the pacing and thus less able to relax and communicate with the Ebeshter themselves.
Joseph,
“You were upset at my even citing the Halacha in the context of a general halachic discussion. Methinks that’s because you aren’t liking the Halacha cited.”
Youthinks wrong. And you haven’t answered my questions.
Little Froggie,
“We all know what happens when words of Torah are taken out and made into songs… how much more for this – AND FOR WHAT ITS BEING USED FOR!”
Oooh oooh! Can you repost this in the shelo asani isha thread? Slominer’s talking about making a song of that bracha complete with drums and instrumentals.
CTLAWYER,
“I’m the family law divorce lawyer.”
The only one??
yitzchokm,
This thread is about the young children of divorced parents, who are not at fault for their parents’ divorce, no matter whether it was right or wrong. So when you ride in on the high horse of moral indignation and state that divorcees should be shunned, it seems based on the context of the thread that you are advocating that children of divorced parents should be marginalized or mistreated. Is this indeed your position?
Joseph,
“Furthermore, regarding the Halacha I earlier cited, it has been the accepted psak across Klal Yisroel since the time of the Mechaber without any dissent or disagreement by any other poskim”
So let me get this straight – are you contending that, because we have the Shulchan Aruch, there is no longer a need to have a personal rav? Do you have a rav you go to for shailos? Or do you pasken for yourself based on what you think is your understanding of the Shulchan Aruch? I believe in the authority of the Shulchan Aruch. I do not believe in the ability of a layperson to properly understand the nuances of a shaila and then apply a comprehensive knowledge of the entirety of halacha in order to properly render a psak. There is a lot more to rendering a psak than finding a random siman in the Shulchan Aruch that seems related to the shaila at hand and pulling halachos out of context.
slominer,
“What about a ben sorer umoreh?”
Show me a case where someone was actually in this halachic category, and then we can talk.
Joseph,
Incorrigible is a statement about the caregiver more than the child – i.e., “not able to be corrected, improved, or reformed” by the parent or teacher. The solution, therefore, is to reach out for assistance. A rav, a frum counselor or parenting expert, or even a peer who has an outside perspective.
Joseph,
The last time I checked, Torah shebaal peh still exists. That means that we receive halachic psak from a living, breathing rav.
The little I know,
I think your arguments would be stronger without the insults.
Does the guy in the picture have long hair and a glowing giant cheerio floating over his head? Sounds like a missionary trick play.
slominer,
“How much is considered normal to tip the barber for a haircut? Is it more for a haircut plus trim?”
Assuming you like the haircut/trim you got, a normal tip I think is around 20%. Tip generously if you like your barber and intend to be a repeat customer.
“What is the typical price range frum barbers charge for a haircut? And for a haircut plus a beard trim?”
I don’t have a frum barber, but my barber charges $15 for a haircut, and an additional $4 for a beard trim. I tip $4 to $5, to bring the grand total to $23 or $24. This price is quite reasonable, even low for the area, and his work is top notch – with both attention to detail and about as fast as I’ve seen.
“Is using non-frum/non-Jewish barbers inappropriate? Are their prices generally more/less than frum barbers?”
As long as the barber can understand and follow your directions on how to cut your hair, I do not see why it would be inappropriate to have a non-Jewish barber.
zahavasdad,
“The sushi one Ive seen more in Israel than the US”
Lol, this is a politician’s non-answer answer. The reason I’m pursuing this question is that I’m wondering where we draw the line between seeing something extreme and thinking “hmm, that individual is a bit odd”, and thinking, “wow, that’s a reflection of some systematic problem in the frum community.”
slominer,
“Q – Shelo asani goy I can understand as Jewish pride, but why sing shelo asani isha as a song? A – the motivation [for singing would be the same motivation as] when saying the brocho itself and appreciating the reason Chazal instituted it”
Nah – we say the bracha because chazal instituted it. No more, no less. They didn’t tell us to make a song of it with microphones, guitars, drum-sets and whatnot. Do you break out the bongo-drums and sing hamotzi lechem min haaretz? Making a song out of a bracha comes from a motivation that we cannot pin on chazal. And again, I can understand the motivation behind the shelo asani goy song. We are in golus, surrounded by a non-Jewish culture that has veered between hostility and assimilating. I can even see a reason for a bongo-drum hamotzi, e.g., chinuch for a young child. I have yet to see a cogent reason for making one from shelo asani isha.
zahavasdad,
In case you missed my question from above: On how many houses have you seen this anti-sushi sign posted?
Thanks!
zahavasdad,
“Maybe it got lost in the post, but THAT was a subsitite for a negative reason not to go to a shul or not to eat from a hashghafa.”
Not only did I understand that, I also agreed with you. Maybe that got lost in my post 🙂 The only place I differed is that I personally think it’s fine to express the opposite – stating why you go to a certain shul, or keep certain food-based minhagim/chumras, etc. Someone who is secure in the correctness of his own practices shouldn’t have trouble encountering different opinions, even if they are more stringent. I do draw a line at bashing other Jews and their (halachically valid) practices.
“if you want to eat, Ill tell you what store I am going to and you can like it or lump it.”
That’s fine. There are many hosts, however, who do choose to accommodate their guests for kashrus, allergy, or preference concerns as much as possible. People can have peanut allergies, eat gluten free, eat yoshon, cholov Yisroel, pas Yisroel, or avoid artificial colors/flavors, sulfites, MSG, trans-fats, etc. Or maybe herring makes them nauseous 🙂
zahavasdad,
“Maybe it was lost in a post, but the emplasis was they spoke those words, not just did them quiety.”
You wrote, “kind of activity”, which suggests the acts themselves, not the words advertising them, but fine.
“If someone goes to a certain shul and doesnt really say why , its not the same as broadcasting why they go to THAT shul and dont go to THAT other shul.”
I agree with you 100% on the why I don’t go to THAT shul part (though maybe I shouldn’t say that, because I could be advertising my piety in lashon hara matters), but I don’t see anything wrong with articulating why you go to a particular shul. “I appreciate the serious davening there”, “I feel like I fit in hashkafically with the rav and kehilla there”, etc. Don’t see how that’s bragging.
“My point is , if you do a chumra , do it quietly”
I’ll repeat my question from above. What if I want to eat by you?
slominer,
“Avrom, isn’t the other song/brocho similarly offensive to a goy?”
Other than anti-Semites, nah.
“So why is it anymore offensive for the chazan to say the brocho in shul with the women saying Amein than for men to sing it as a song when women are around?”
Shelo asani goy I can understand as Jewish pride, but why sing shelo asani isha as a song? Male pride? That’s idiotic.
slominer,
“Some of the major Jewish singers today have a song of “shelo asani goy”. If they came out with a song of “shelo asani isha” would that be any different/same or more or less offensive (or no different) than singing shelo asani goy?”
It would be offensive.
“And, more importantly, why – given that they’re both brochos?”
Nothing to do with the fact that both are brachos, and everything to do with the motivations of the songwriters and singers.
zahavasdad,
“you dont need to tell someone who eats from a difference hashcha that most eat from (I am talking about generally accepted hashghcas, not ones most dont hold from) why you dont eat from THAT hashghca”
What if they want to eat by you?
zahavasdad,
“I have seen people post on their door in a big sign how they lived in a “Cell Phone and Sushi Free House””
How many “people” have you seen do this? Why can’t you just think, “well, that’s an odd thing to put on your door”, rather than “wow, frum Jews in general have a problem”?
“If that is not trying to prove how Helig you are to the rest of the world, I dont know what is,”
I don’t think you can judge with surety another’s inner motivations. What you think is clearly evident may not be so. Perhaps as much as you feel that “they” are lording their chumra-fueled piety in your face, maybe “they” feel that their family practices are insulted and ridiculed, and are making a defiant statement. Or maybe they’re just a little odd. Or they never left the high school identity-on-the-sleeve mentality. Or they think it’s funny.
“And I unfortunatly I see this kind of activity all the time, People only buying from THAT hashghca or only davening at THAT shul etc”
Wait, I thought you said your problem was with people broadcasting those things, not doing them at all.
CTLAWYER,
I’m so sorry to hear about your family’s loss.
“Yes, I have asked Mrs. CTL what she wants, and to be blunt, she would prefer that the yuntif would be over with already. She has no enthuasim for the preparation and tumult of all the family together. Yet, I feel she will miss it, if after all these years we downplay the holidays.”
It sounds like you don’t have clarity on what she really wants to do for Rosh Hashana – possibly because she herself doesn’t know. Personally, I wouldn’t move forward with any plans that involve my wife having to deal with any preparation and tumult based solely on a feeling. I would make every effort to relieve that burden unless she explicitly says she wants to make the yom tov, even with assurances that nobody will be disappointed if she doesn’t host. If you have children able and willing to make the yom tov and you can join them, I’d jump on that. If she ultimately misses it, there is Sukkos soon after, and please G-d next year.
whitecar,
“I guess my real question is, is that everything the US Goverment touches turns into garbage.”
I disagree. The Interstate Highway system, the GI Bill, Federal interventions that helped prevent the 2008 “Great Recession” from turning into a full-scale depression with widespread homelessness and hunger, the FDIC which protects your bank accounts, FHA which helps you get loans to buy a house, Social Security and Medicare which helps prevent poverty among the elderly, the National Weather Service, the military, etc. are all examples of extremely beneficial Federal programs.
“I noticed that democrats it seems dont seem to care about any longterm policys in this country. “
Again, I disagree. Environmental and Financial regulatory policies are attempts to maintain American prosperity in the future. You may disagree with the policies proposed, but they certainly reflect long-term thinking.
“For example, if you have foodstamps, you should not be able to afford a $15 breakfast in bagel nosh.”
Unfortunately, not everyone who buys a $15 breakfast in Bagel Nosh can really afford the $15 breakfast in Bagel Nosh. Programs like SNAP (food stamps have been replaced) are based on income, not the wisdom of the financial decisions of the recipients.
“Now its the goverments job to make sure, but do they?”
It’s the government’s job to reduce waste and fraud, sure. But do you want the government regulating people’s personal financial choices? I thought you were against excessive regulation and for personal freedom.
“Also a school funded by taxpayers are getting state of the art equipment, and redesigning the property with trees, why is that something that taxpayers have to cover?”
The Federal government is not paying for landscaping at schools. Schools are primarily funded at the local (municipality or county/parish) level, with additional funding and regulations from the state and Federal governments. Additionally, a lot of “extras” that schools have come via donations from rich alumni. If you don’t like how schools in your area are run, then run for your local school board. That’s where the biggest differences are made.
“Elected poloticions dont understand money or costs or buisness. Why cant people understand that, its right in front of your eyes?”
If you think you’re so much smarter than your elected officials, then run for office!
whitecar,
“Personally my ideals for this country is, a country which allows hard work to be rewarded. in order to maximize that, you need less taxes and less regulations.”
Can you explain why that would be so?
“Also the government should be focused on these 2 principles. Security and Safety nets for low or no income families and individuals. I would like to see the government spend tax money on maximum security and minimum safety net programs (so that you have a basic roof over your head, education, food and healthcare but only at a necessary minimum so that you live)”
The idea of a social safety net that provides a roof over your head, education, food, and healthcare (!!) is certainly not a conservative one.
“Democrats and Liberals, do you agree with that end game and you just happen to think there is a different route? Or do have an alternative to that idea.”
I do not pigeonhole myself as either a Democrat or Republican. Both parties are conglomerations of people with various interests that are frequently not philosophically or logically consistent. I think the end game you state – safety and prosperity – is shared by everyone. The clashes occur over values – and both sides have merits and dangerous extremes. Conservatives tend to favor loyalty, authority, and purity, while liberals focus more on caring and fairness. Both value liberty.