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Joseph,
The last time I checked, Torah shebaal peh still exists. That means that we receive halachic psak from a living, breathing rav.
The little I know,
I think your arguments would be stronger without the insults.
Does the guy in the picture have long hair and a glowing giant cheerio floating over his head? Sounds like a missionary trick play.
slominer,
“How much is considered normal to tip the barber for a haircut? Is it more for a haircut plus trim?”
Assuming you like the haircut/trim you got, a normal tip I think is around 20%. Tip generously if you like your barber and intend to be a repeat customer.
“What is the typical price range frum barbers charge for a haircut? And for a haircut plus a beard trim?”
I don’t have a frum barber, but my barber charges $15 for a haircut, and an additional $4 for a beard trim. I tip $4 to $5, to bring the grand total to $23 or $24. This price is quite reasonable, even low for the area, and his work is top notch – with both attention to detail and about as fast as I’ve seen.
“Is using non-frum/non-Jewish barbers inappropriate? Are their prices generally more/less than frum barbers?”
As long as the barber can understand and follow your directions on how to cut your hair, I do not see why it would be inappropriate to have a non-Jewish barber.
zahavasdad,
“The sushi one Ive seen more in Israel than the US”
Lol, this is a politician’s non-answer answer. The reason I’m pursuing this question is that I’m wondering where we draw the line between seeing something extreme and thinking “hmm, that individual is a bit odd”, and thinking, “wow, that’s a reflection of some systematic problem in the frum community.”
slominer,
“Q – Shelo asani goy I can understand as Jewish pride, but why sing shelo asani isha as a song? A – the motivation [for singing would be the same motivation as] when saying the brocho itself and appreciating the reason Chazal instituted it”
Nah – we say the bracha because chazal instituted it. No more, no less. They didn’t tell us to make a song of it with microphones, guitars, drum-sets and whatnot. Do you break out the bongo-drums and sing hamotzi lechem min haaretz? Making a song out of a bracha comes from a motivation that we cannot pin on chazal. And again, I can understand the motivation behind the shelo asani goy song. We are in golus, surrounded by a non-Jewish culture that has veered between hostility and assimilating. I can even see a reason for a bongo-drum hamotzi, e.g., chinuch for a young child. I have yet to see a cogent reason for making one from shelo asani isha.
zahavasdad,
In case you missed my question from above: On how many houses have you seen this anti-sushi sign posted?
Thanks!
zahavasdad,
“Maybe it got lost in the post, but THAT was a subsitite for a negative reason not to go to a shul or not to eat from a hashghafa.”
Not only did I understand that, I also agreed with you. Maybe that got lost in my post 🙂 The only place I differed is that I personally think it’s fine to express the opposite – stating why you go to a certain shul, or keep certain food-based minhagim/chumras, etc. Someone who is secure in the correctness of his own practices shouldn’t have trouble encountering different opinions, even if they are more stringent. I do draw a line at bashing other Jews and their (halachically valid) practices.
“if you want to eat, Ill tell you what store I am going to and you can like it or lump it.”
That’s fine. There are many hosts, however, who do choose to accommodate their guests for kashrus, allergy, or preference concerns as much as possible. People can have peanut allergies, eat gluten free, eat yoshon, cholov Yisroel, pas Yisroel, or avoid artificial colors/flavors, sulfites, MSG, trans-fats, etc. Or maybe herring makes them nauseous 🙂
zahavasdad,
“Maybe it was lost in a post, but the emplasis was they spoke those words, not just did them quiety.”
You wrote, “kind of activity”, which suggests the acts themselves, not the words advertising them, but fine.
“If someone goes to a certain shul and doesnt really say why , its not the same as broadcasting why they go to THAT shul and dont go to THAT other shul.”
I agree with you 100% on the why I don’t go to THAT shul part (though maybe I shouldn’t say that, because I could be advertising my piety in lashon hara matters), but I don’t see anything wrong with articulating why you go to a particular shul. “I appreciate the serious davening there”, “I feel like I fit in hashkafically with the rav and kehilla there”, etc. Don’t see how that’s bragging.
“My point is , if you do a chumra , do it quietly”
I’ll repeat my question from above. What if I want to eat by you?
slominer,
“Avrom, isn’t the other song/brocho similarly offensive to a goy?”
Other than anti-Semites, nah.
“So why is it anymore offensive for the chazan to say the brocho in shul with the women saying Amein than for men to sing it as a song when women are around?”
Shelo asani goy I can understand as Jewish pride, but why sing shelo asani isha as a song? Male pride? That’s idiotic.
slominer,
“Some of the major Jewish singers today have a song of “shelo asani goy”. If they came out with a song of “shelo asani isha” would that be any different/same or more or less offensive (or no different) than singing shelo asani goy?”
It would be offensive.
“And, more importantly, why – given that they’re both brochos?”
Nothing to do with the fact that both are brachos, and everything to do with the motivations of the songwriters and singers.
zahavasdad,
“you dont need to tell someone who eats from a difference hashcha that most eat from (I am talking about generally accepted hashghcas, not ones most dont hold from) why you dont eat from THAT hashghca”
What if they want to eat by you?
zahavasdad,
“I have seen people post on their door in a big sign how they lived in a “Cell Phone and Sushi Free House””
How many “people” have you seen do this? Why can’t you just think, “well, that’s an odd thing to put on your door”, rather than “wow, frum Jews in general have a problem”?
“If that is not trying to prove how Helig you are to the rest of the world, I dont know what is,”
I don’t think you can judge with surety another’s inner motivations. What you think is clearly evident may not be so. Perhaps as much as you feel that “they” are lording their chumra-fueled piety in your face, maybe “they” feel that their family practices are insulted and ridiculed, and are making a defiant statement. Or maybe they’re just a little odd. Or they never left the high school identity-on-the-sleeve mentality. Or they think it’s funny.
“And I unfortunatly I see this kind of activity all the time, People only buying from THAT hashghca or only davening at THAT shul etc”
Wait, I thought you said your problem was with people broadcasting those things, not doing them at all.
CTLAWYER,
I’m so sorry to hear about your family’s loss.
“Yes, I have asked Mrs. CTL what she wants, and to be blunt, she would prefer that the yuntif would be over with already. She has no enthuasim for the preparation and tumult of all the family together. Yet, I feel she will miss it, if after all these years we downplay the holidays.”
It sounds like you don’t have clarity on what she really wants to do for Rosh Hashana – possibly because she herself doesn’t know. Personally, I wouldn’t move forward with any plans that involve my wife having to deal with any preparation and tumult based solely on a feeling. I would make every effort to relieve that burden unless she explicitly says she wants to make the yom tov, even with assurances that nobody will be disappointed if she doesn’t host. If you have children able and willing to make the yom tov and you can join them, I’d jump on that. If she ultimately misses it, there is Sukkos soon after, and please G-d next year.
whitecar,
“I guess my real question is, is that everything the US Goverment touches turns into garbage.”
I disagree. The Interstate Highway system, the GI Bill, Federal interventions that helped prevent the 2008 “Great Recession” from turning into a full-scale depression with widespread homelessness and hunger, the FDIC which protects your bank accounts, FHA which helps you get loans to buy a house, Social Security and Medicare which helps prevent poverty among the elderly, the National Weather Service, the military, etc. are all examples of extremely beneficial Federal programs.
“I noticed that democrats it seems dont seem to care about any longterm policys in this country. “
Again, I disagree. Environmental and Financial regulatory policies are attempts to maintain American prosperity in the future. You may disagree with the policies proposed, but they certainly reflect long-term thinking.
“For example, if you have foodstamps, you should not be able to afford a $15 breakfast in bagel nosh.”
Unfortunately, not everyone who buys a $15 breakfast in Bagel Nosh can really afford the $15 breakfast in Bagel Nosh. Programs like SNAP (food stamps have been replaced) are based on income, not the wisdom of the financial decisions of the recipients.
“Now its the goverments job to make sure, but do they?”
It’s the government’s job to reduce waste and fraud, sure. But do you want the government regulating people’s personal financial choices? I thought you were against excessive regulation and for personal freedom.
“Also a school funded by taxpayers are getting state of the art equipment, and redesigning the property with trees, why is that something that taxpayers have to cover?”
The Federal government is not paying for landscaping at schools. Schools are primarily funded at the local (municipality or county/parish) level, with additional funding and regulations from the state and Federal governments. Additionally, a lot of “extras” that schools have come via donations from rich alumni. If you don’t like how schools in your area are run, then run for your local school board. That’s where the biggest differences are made.
“Elected poloticions dont understand money or costs or buisness. Why cant people understand that, its right in front of your eyes?”
If you think you’re so much smarter than your elected officials, then run for office!
whitecar,
“Personally my ideals for this country is, a country which allows hard work to be rewarded. in order to maximize that, you need less taxes and less regulations.”
Can you explain why that would be so?
“Also the government should be focused on these 2 principles. Security and Safety nets for low or no income families and individuals. I would like to see the government spend tax money on maximum security and minimum safety net programs (so that you have a basic roof over your head, education, food and healthcare but only at a necessary minimum so that you live)”
The idea of a social safety net that provides a roof over your head, education, food, and healthcare (!!) is certainly not a conservative one.
“Democrats and Liberals, do you agree with that end game and you just happen to think there is a different route? Or do have an alternative to that idea.”
I do not pigeonhole myself as either a Democrat or Republican. Both parties are conglomerations of people with various interests that are frequently not philosophically or logically consistent. I think the end game you state – safety and prosperity – is shared by everyone. The clashes occur over values – and both sides have merits and dangerous extremes. Conservatives tend to favor loyalty, authority, and purity, while liberals focus more on caring and fairness. Both value liberty.
“Young Israel of Boca 7200 Palmetto Cir. N.
The Chofetz Chaim branch is based there. The Rov is a musmach of the yeshiva also”Lol. How do you handle this one, Curiosity?
Doing my best,
“Is it considered lashon Hara (Which if everyone knew who the person was would be a problem) to say it about a username in the CR who no one knows who this person really is?”
Not knowing who someone is does not remove the problem of lashon hara. Are you allowed to speak lashon hara about a visitor to a town, even if nobody knows his name? Beyond that, many people do know the screennames of their friends and family who post in the CR.
Phil,
“Posing questions on this site elicits fake halacha from Joseph. Ask your LOR and find one if you don’t have one”
I wouldn’t worry about 1. He and Joseph just did a CR “alley-oop” play that’s pretty common around here. The “Question” thread about pru urvu is another example of the same.
I think most people here know to “AYLOR” the real shailas. It’s clear that the OP seems to think he already has the answer, and just wants to hock about it.
Avi K,
“Avram, respecting diversity includes respecting my right to object to a word, make fun of Jargon, etc.”
There is no legitimate Jewish culture predicated on making fun of other Jews. Sorry. What is hateful to you, do not do to others.
Non Political,
“And if they where talking about Observant Jews would you agree with Ai K’s statement?”
That would depend on your definition of observant. Additionally, there are situations where I can simultaneously accept an observant Jew’s word that his food is kosher and not be able to eat it due to my minhagim. An obvious example of this would be rice during Pesach.
Avi K,
“1. What about someone who does not want to be called a Yid, either because he wants to leave knows that the word is often a pejorative, wants to Jargon to philologists or is a proud non-Ashkenazi?”
That’s fine. You certainly don’t have to use the word, and you can politely request people to not use the word when referring to you. At the end of the day, however, reasonable people acknowledge that there is a diversity of cultures within the Jewish people, and have the ability to respect those cultural differences, which include language.
I find it sad that you define your identity as being “non” something. It’s better to be “for” something. Being proud of your own culture is wonderful. But do you think Hashem wants you to distance yourself from your brethren and sow discord among them? Over things like “Yidden” and “Gut Shabbos”?
“2. See Pitchei Teshuva YD 116:10 that there is an opinion that someone who does not accept an observant Jew’s word that his food is kosher is a heretic as he opposes Chazal, who said that a single witness is believed regarding prohibitions.”
Hold your heretic hurling horses there. DovidBT and knaidlach were very clearly talking about non-observant Jews.
“As for his kashrut not being up to “your standard”, what about one’s standard in ben adam l’chaveiro, avoiding mechzi k’yuheira, etc.?”
Knaidlach wrote: “achdus means that you show that any yid is special to you and you love him and you are friendly.” What more do you want? Should I eat bacon at a Reform Jew’s house to satisfy bein adam l’chaveiro? Also, doesn’t bein adam l’chaveiro include things like not making a fellow Jew feel bad for saving ‘sav’ instead of ‘tav’, or wishing someone a freilechen Purim?
Machlokes and hypocrisy are not the same thing.
How exactly would that be different from the CR? Are you asking for the ability to write an OP and disallow responses?
Curiosity,
“…if they don’t typically work 45 hour weeks with only 10-15 days vacation per year, like every other profession? I know that educating our children is important, etc., but that doesn’t justify a $50k/year salary (not to mention a nice pension in some states) for working what would otherwise be considered a part-time job, if it were not in the field of education.”
Supply and demand: If educators indeed received “full time” pay and benefits for a “part time” job, then there would be droves of people breaking down the door to be teachers. We do not see this. Why?
A 40 hour workweek over 50 weeks in a year comes out to around 2000 hours worked. A teacher works more like 40 weeks out of the year, but puts in closer to 10 hours of work per day, which comes out to a 50 hour workweek. Also 2000 hours. So you’re essentially kvetching about 50*40 vs. 40*50.
And the pay gap between teaching and other professions increases quite a bit when factoring in years worked.
It is Time for Truth,
“Better than any other,the glorious greenhouse for steamy fiery greatness over the past few hundred years was NE Europe.
Acknowledging that causes some to have intestinal angst.Very destabilizing for them.”I am not foolish enough crane my neck up towards our giants in Torah and presume to judge them.
Avi K,
My perspective on these threads: For many Ashkenazim, especially Chassidim, Yiddish is regarded as an important element of their culture. And your derision of Yiddish and other Ashkenazic practices in favor of Israeli or Sefardic ones is perceived as an attack on that culture.
If your problem is that some people conflate Ashkenazic/Chassidic culture with Judaism as a whole, thus perceiving other Jewish cultures as “less than”, I agree 100% that this should be opposed. But that is not how you are coming across. You seem to be going to the opposite extreme – trying to paint Ashkenazim as “less than” via your Chacham Ovadia ZT”L quotations, calling Yiddish insulting names, etc.
You seem to have a great desire to see the Jewish people as a whole come back to Eretz Yisroel. But if someone feels that his dialect will be mocked, that his choice of headwear will inspire hatred, and his family customs despised in Israel, isn’t that counter-productive to your goal? I understand that you have been made to feel the same way, but do two wrongs make a right?
As a side point – it’s clear from reading Shoftim that the Jewish shevatim spoke with different dialects even before the first Beis Hamikdash was built!
New Yorker at heart,
“I am overcome by this terrible trend hitting bnei Torah and Rebbiem”
Overcome? Isn’t that a bit of hyperbole?
“Just like a soldier in the army has to wear his uniform at all times when he is on duty or else he will get court marshaled,
So too yungerliet and rabbeim who are on duty 24/7- 365 should have to wear their hats and jackets whenever they step out into the street.”Using your army moshol, the rabbeim are equivalent to our officers, and it’s failure to follow their orders that would result in a court marshal. If they are not objecting to a change in uniform standards on the base, what exactly is your problem?
laskern,
“As a historical note the discontinuation of wearing hats came with the arrival of President Kennedy. Cristziansich Yudensich. We follow the umas haolom.”
I doubt that. I’m not a sociologist, but if I were to guess, I think the rise of the automobile as a primary mode of transportation, especially once they became climate controlled, is what led to hats falling into disuse. The ability to travel or commute in a dry cabin with comfortable temperatures reduced the need for the hat’s functionality, and the low ceiling and lack of space made hats inconvenient to bring along in the car.
RebYidd23,
I have occasionally felt ill in the day or two following a fast (fatigue, malaise), and I realized that for me it had little to do with the food that I ate before or after the fast, and much more to do with hydration. The summer fasts especially can be very dehydrating, and I have found that I continue to be dehydrated for a day or two after the fast. So I drink water more frequently for a few days, and that largely solves the problem. Also, I’ve found that eating too fast and drinking too little water when breaking the fast can also lead to gastronomical upset.
Mammele,
For sure! I step down my caffeine intake in the days before Yom Kippur, Shiva Asar bBTammuz, and Tisha B’Av to try and avoid the monstrous headache. For the other fasts, I can wake up and get a cup of tea or coffee in before it starts.
It is already routinely happening in the U.S., although they don’t use the term “slavery” for it.
Lightbrite,
“Ice burns! It’s official; I got second degree burns by applying ice to a bruise.”
So sorry to hear that! I hope you have a full and complete recovery.
“Do your kids know the dangers of applying ice directly to their skin?”
Yes, when put ice on our kids, which they usually decline to do anyway, we put something between the ice and their skin, such as a washcloth or paper towels. We also remove the ice after 15-20 minutes, so the skin can warm back up. My parents told me to do this as well when I was younger. Frozen peas might be a better icer than an ice pack, because the peas can conform to your skin (less need to apply pressure) and they move around more. For a burn caused by contact with a hot surface, we run it under cold water from the tap for as long as possible, and never put ice, butter or oil on it.
bk613,
“what legal right does Hatzolah have to confiscate private property from them”
The article did not state that Hatzolah confiscated the radios. I assume it was the parents, and they definitely have the right. Note the appeal from the Hatzola Catskills coordinator:
“We are pleading with parents to confiscate ALL radios with Hatzolah frequencies from children, and imploring parents not to buy these devices for them. This is Pikuach Nefashos, and this will not be tolerated whatsoever”, a Catskills Hatzalah Coordinator told YWN.”
coffee addict,
“Orb stands for orthodox rabbinical board of broward county, miami’s Hashgacha is the KM (kosher Miami)”
Thanks, good catch.
Lightbrite,
Inside Disney, the double-sealed frozen meals heated in a microwave are likely the best you’ll get. I haven’t been to Orlando in 5 years, and I haven’t been to Disney since I was a Florida resident over a decade ago. There are a few kosher restaurants around, but the turnover is fast and the hashgachos can be confusing, so I cannot recommend a specific place. I am familiar with the Miami-based ORB, and the RCF is Chabad’s north and central Florida rabbinical organization, but outside of them I know nothing. I miss Ole Gourmet in Maitland – it was a repeated stop for us during trips across the state once upon a time. If you want to go beyond the microwaved double-wrapped airline meals, you should probably look into getting meals from restaurants outside of Disney, or bringing in your own food.
Curiosity,
“The way you phrase this question shows complete intellectual dishonesty and twisting of the truth.”
Well hello to you too. I would appreciate if you could address the content of my posts without making ad hominem attacks.
“There is a big difference between “requesting asylum” and illegally sneaking across the border. One is a crime the other is not.”
I have already addressed this in other posts in this thread. To recap:
1. Some of the families who had children separated had entered the U.S. at legal ports of entry.
2. One must be physically present inside the U.S. to request asylum, and it is extremely difficult to enter the U.S. at legal points of entry. Some families are turned away outright. Others are left waiting for days. Due to this, asylum seekers frequently cross the border and then surrender themselves to authorities. Take the hysteria out of the equation, if you’re trying to get somewhere and you’re stuck for a long time at an obviously broken traffic signal, what would you do? Yes, it’s a misdemeanor offense, but from the hysteria over this issue you’d think it’s mass murder or something.“Let’s not pretend anyone is saying we should no longer accept legitimate asylum seekers who don’t try to skip the line ahead of everyone else who is trying to go through it the legal way.”
Line? How about let’s not pretend that there is a line for people to get in or skip. Read my posts from above. It’s nearly impossible to legally immigrate to the U.S., and prohibitively hard for families to request asylum.
“Oh and by the way, most of the illegals who sneak in do it for money not for asylum.”
That’s for the courts to decide on a case by case basis. We’re a nation of laws, remember?
The little I know,
“The reason that Liberalism has become a Disease is because it is limitless in its scope.”
Define “Liberalism” – I imagine we might largely agree with respect to socially liberal issues as in your example. But if someone has a different opinion than you do regarding, say, the role of the Federal Government vs. the states, the degree of economic assistance offered by the government, or the amount of tax citizens should pay, etc., would you also label those different opinions a capital-D Disease?
“The labeling of anything Trump does as evil is an extreme position, and this is detestable.”
Yeah, those are partisans, and both parties have ’em.
“In fact, his immigration policies were actually stated openly by Bill Clinton, Obama, and numerous Democrat politicians in Congress.”
Really? Which previous administration called for the building of a wall and getting Mexico to pay for it? Which previous administration called for extrajudicial removal of asylum claimants?
Joseph,
“Avram, do you believe that America should accept anyone in the world who isn’t dangerous that wants to move to America for economic reasons?”
Increase opportunity for legal immigration? Yes. Automatically accept everyone who wants to immigrate because of economic reasons, even if it stresses U.S. resources? No.
“If not, what should America do to those that come here illegally for economic reasons?”
If apprehended at the border, charge them with a misdemeanor and deport them.
The little I know,
“I believe I am moderate about certain things, including politics.”
” I do not even respect the MSM when they broadcast the weather forecast. Meanwhile, the Democrat agenda has zero to do with leading the country, helping the population, or even the constituencies of the various elected officials, but rather the good ole ATDS (Anti-Trump Derangement Syndrome).”
“Then the brain dead people take to the microphones… Should YWN broadcast articles from these idiots?”
Well! If this is your definition of “moderate” I’d hate to see your definition of partisan.
Avi K,
“Avram, are you saying that the US should take in all comers?”
That’s another false dilemma. The U.S. should prioritize keeping dangerous people out while maintaining its values as a refuge and beacon of hope for those yearning to be free, and stop mucking up the legal process to try and keep non-violent people out. Personally, I fear the flow of drugs northward into the U.S. and the flow of guns southward into Mexico and Central America a lot more than I fear families who happen to speak Spanish, and I think that’s where most of the U.S. border security resources should be prioritized.
“How exactly would you monitor them without establishing a totalitarian state?”
The best way would be to speed up the processing of asylum claims in the legal system. Barring that, something like a weekly check-in with a case worker is hardly totalitarian.
Avi K,
“Avram, it is a crime to try and enter the US illegally. See The Truth about Separating Kids By Rich Lowry in National review.”
The article was well written, but quite misleading.
1. There have been numerous cases of migrants being deported swiftly after prosecution for illegal entry while their children continue to be detained in the US by HHS, so the claim that kids are returned to their parents quickly if they leave the country is false. The National Review piece uses clever weasel words, “the adult should be reunited quickly with his or her child” … “in this scenario, there’s only a very brief separation”, but “should be” does not mean “is”, and “in this [hypothetical] scenario” does not mean reality. Not to mention that the very detrimental psychological impacts of detaining young children are completely whitewashed.
2. The dip (not dry-up) in migrant apprehensions at the start of the Trump presidency says nothing about the motivations of the migrants, but rather their fear of the potential new policies. Migrants are not required to seek asylum in the first country to which they arrive – the US only has an agreement with Canada in this regard because the two countries have similar asylum apparatuses. Mexico’s asylum apparatus is much smaller – many applicants are turned away – and there are reports of human rights abuses within the system. Furthermore, many asylum seekers are not safe in Mexico. And as for the ideal way to seek asylum in the US, many asylum seekers are turned away at official U.S. ports of entry. Legally, one cannot request asylum unless they are physically inside the U.S., so if turned away at a legal point of entry, what recourse is there to get your asylum claim in?
3. Implying that the Trump Administration’s zero-tolerance policy is a must because some people attempt fraud, or there is a limited amount of resources, is a false dilemma. Previous administrations prioritized the deportations of fraudsters, criminals, smugglers, etc. Furthermore, if you’re worried about asylum seekers “disappearing” into the U.S., resources can be used to better monitor them. As for the law and order moral argument – tens of thousands of Americans are killed each year in traffic accidents, and speeding is a contributing factor to many of these deaths. Should adults given speeding citations (also a misdemeanor) be detained, and their kids sent to shelters until they can be placed with relatives?
Health,
“He seems to know what he’s doing. He actually got N. Korea to sit down and talk.”
Sitting down one on one with the U.S. president was Kim Jong Un’s dream come true, and it was a propaganda bonanza for him. A big point of contention over the years has been U.S. insistence that North Korea engage in multi-lateral talks. North Korea’s demand has always been bi-lateral talks with the U.S. alone, and they just got it for free. It’s not like it was difficult to get them to the table. Getting actual results – that’s where the real challenge lies. I hope the Trump Administration is successful in their efforts to denuclearize North Korea through diplomacy, but let’s not pretend that there has been victory yet.
Curiosity,
“You DO realize that if you, as a citizen, commit a crime punishable by jail and you happen to tote your kids with you that your children will be taken away, right?”
Since when is it a crime to request asylum?
The little I know,
“Wrong. You missed the point.”
I’m not sure you understood my point enough to be able to determine if I have “missed” someone else’s point or not. You restated dbrim’s point that I was responding to with increased verbiage but no new content.
“There are several problems that we have due to the open borders.”
I agree that there are big problems, but calling them “open” borders is a gross exaggeration.
“One is the MS-13”
Any response to my point about MS-13 above?
“and other criminals who not only enter leisurely, but are able to get every version of support.”
I believe this statement is rather misleading. Undocumented immigrants are barred from receiving government benefits.
“The second is the sheer cost of managing all the immigrant issues.”
Describe some of these costs, and tell me how covering the nearly 2000 mile US/Mexico border with a wall and drastically increasing border patrols wouldn’t also take money from the finite pie that is the Federal budget, or why it’s the poverty fighting benefits that would be cut due to these unknown “immigrant issues” costs.
“Until be turn into a surplus budget, we should take care of our own before the others.”
Given the tax cuts Congress passed into law, I don’t think we’ll be seeing a budget surplus any time soon. And any deficit reduction plans put forward by those who want the tax cuts and to stop immigration seek to reduce the funds available for “taking care of our own.” So forgive me if I see this argument as kind of hollow.
“You are others have forgotten that there are legal means to enter the US.”
No, for the majority of people there are not. Unless you are being sponsored by an American employer (rare), are a spouse, sibling, parent, or child of a citizen (and immigrating via this method can take 20-25 years!), or are granted asylum (which is the category most of the people involved with the family separation crisis are attempting to utilize), there is pretty much no way for most people to immigrate legally to the United States. Get in line? There is no line.
“Who told them (besides the Democrats who are anti-American) to smuggle into the country?”
Just because somebody has a different view of a problem or its solutions than you do, does not make him anti-American.
“If they want to do things illegally, they lack the right to demand compliance with the law.”
Say what?
dbrim,
“Have you never been to a black inner city neighborhood? Or the trailer parks, home to poor middle-America whites? As American citizens, these communities should be a priority over Hondurans – in some fantasy world we have unlimited resources but not in reality.”
False dilemma. Who says that comprehensive immigration reform has to impact support for poor urban and rural American communities? And what are opponents of immigration reform proposing to do to help these communities?
“And how come your concern with gang rule doesn’t extend to MS-13?”
MS-13 is a huge problem, and part of the reason the gang has managed to get such a strong foothold in the United States is a lack of cooperation between law enforcement and the immigrant communities. MS-13 victimizes immigrants worst of all, and they fear going to the police because a call to them to report that they are being extorted or threatened by MS-13 gang members might get them arrested and deported.
Joseph,
“those legally claiming asylum at an official border crossing are unaffected by the recent policy changes. And are not subject to this new zero tolerance prosecution resulting in parents being separated from children.”
I wish your saying it made it so, but it is not so.
Gadolhadorah,
“Why not assur everything that could remotely be used, directly or indirectly, in committing avieros.”
Reductio ad absurdum. The decision whether to ban smartphones or not is based on a risk/benefit analysis. Nobody denies the benefits of a smartphone, but the risks introduced by the technology are also quite high. Therefore, some have concluded that at this point, the risks outweigh the benefits. Filtering technology, apps, and cultural changes may well change that calculus now or in the future, but that’s the way it is. The balance of risks and benefits will be different for other technologies.
“Those who mindlessly speak about assuring automobiles, electric-powered devices, and other forms of modern technology obviously have concluded the Ebeshter made a mistake when giving us the sechel to transform technology and improve the quality of our lives.”
First, just because you disagree with another poster’s point does not make him or her “mindless.” Second, “they” have not concluded that any mistakes in the setup of the world have been made, CV”S. Rather, they disagree with you that smartphones have resulted in a net improvement to quality of life.
akuperma,
“The parents are free to take their children and either enter the United States legally at a border crossing (if their papers are in order), or return home.”
A lot of these families are seeking asylum, and they actually seek out the authorities upon crossing the border.
“None of them are fleeing anything so horrible that they would qualify for asylum.”
Do you know anything about the situation in El Salvador and Honduras?
“Trump has asked permission to keep the parents and children together while they are being held pending a decision on deporting them, but Congress needs to pass a statute to allow it.”
Untrue, as proven by the recent executive order.
DovidBT,
“There’s a difference between immigrating in accordance with the law, and sneaking across the border illegally.”
A lot of these families are coming to the border seeking asylum, surrendering themselves to border authorities immediately. This activity is not illegal.