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coffee addict,
“Additionally most shuls daven past סזק״ש according to the מג״א
People who are מקפיד daven hashkama”Or they make sure to say krias shema before the zman, like at the table on Friday night after dark.
Gadolhadorah,
“How does that solve the Magid’s problem??”
Easy. He’s upset that his wife is “turning up” too early in the davening, so I proposed a solution where she does not have to alter her arrival time, but now arrives at the proper time he thinks a woman should arrive.
“He is obviously dealing with a complex “relationship” issues”
I solved the problem he presented to the CR. Let’s not go out looking for more problems.
Switch to a hashkoma davening so that when she turns up, they’re already halfway through the leining.
DaasYochid,
“And the potential for a man to be matched decreases with age more slowly than for a woman.
Again, that doesn’t change the numbers, it just makes it even worse because it increases the age gap, and makes it even harder for women in a certain age group.”
I’d say it the other way around. The age gap due to straight population growth makes the cultural marriageability gap even worse.
DaasYochid,
“Blockquotes look horrible no matter how you use them.
Right, Avram in MD?”
They looked fine back in the days when we had subtitles…
DaasYochid,
“Why wouldn’t it be? What would be a bigger factor?”
I don’t know, I think there are multiple potential factors, and I’d be glad to list some I think may be at play, with the caveat that it’s speculative. I think a subset of available men (full-time learners) are more prized culturally, so a larger population of women are trying to be matched with a smaller population of men from the outset. And the potential for a man to be matched decreases with age more slowly than for a woman.
The population growth rates being thrown around here, however, are inflated by an order of magnitude, and it is highly unlikely that a 2-3 year marriage age gap within this growth regime alone is the primary reason men get significantly more shidduch opportunities than women.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“You have a room of 50 boys and 60 girls. How do they all get married without 10 single girls leftover?”
“There are more girls in a later generation than there are boys in an earlier one; that’s just fact when you have a growing population. This is what those of you in denial do: to compensate for your embarrassing lack of understanding of basic statistics”
You set up 50 boys and 60 girls as an illustration of the shidduch crisis, and then lectured Syag that she doesn’t understand basic statistics? Lolol. The typical age gap in marriage is not 40 years. Sure an age gap in marriage in an increasing population is one potential factor at play, but I seriously doubt that it is anywhere near the primary driver for the larger number of single women. And to focus exclusively on it causes you to ignore other factors that may be more impactful.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“CTL had claimed that if someone had read his posts from years of being a CR user, they would see how great and accepting he is of other socio-economic classes.”
I reread his post, and can see how his claims to be “middle class” seem out of touch with what middle class actually means in light of his frequent and casual references to his wealth. And that welcoming increased taxes ignores the fact that such policies can harm others, though, to be fair, I’m guessing he doesn’t favor raising taxes on people with smaller incomes. MDG hit back on those points, but I don’t really see how they insult other people. Can you clarify?
CTLAWYER,
“The OP posed a physical impossibility To vote for a dead non-US citizen who was also a non-member of the Democrat Party in a primary.”
1. While we’re picking nits, it’s the Democratic Party, not Democrat. The latter is typically used as an epithet.
2. I also believe the OP was a troll post, but surely you understand that it was a hypothetical, and thus being literally possible was not really relevant? If you want, interpret the question as, “if a person like Stalin was running in a primary…”Neville ChaimBerlin,
“Notice how I never said the word debate or anything synonymous with it in the quote to which this was replying. I’m not sure how you read that as having anything to do with debates or winning.”
Quite obvious from the entirety of your post. Later in the post you wrote, “arguments in a magical, intellectual way” as an expansion of your point. And debate is certainly a synonym of argument. As far as winning being your perceived goal of conversation, that is evident in your references to discussions being pointless because nobody’s ever convinced. The vast majority of human conversation does not consist of one person trying to convince another of something.
“No more meaningless than applying it to anyone who personally offends you with a different opinion. Real men can take it and don’t beg for censorship whenever they can’t take back what they dish out.”
Not once have I been personally offended by anyone’s opinion in this thread. Nor have I begged for censorship. And I bet that had you rewritten your post minus the personal insults instead of complaining about censorship, you could have had your comebacks to CTLAWYER posted already.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“By interesting, you mean conversations where both sides end up feeling deep-seated anger, but cover it up in the name of civility as is the custom in the phony world of intellectualism.”
Not every conversation is a debate. And the goal isn’t always to “win.”
“The way you’re looking at this would mean everyone taking a vow of silence for all eternity.”
You don’t seem to be finding me very silent 🙂
“This idea that you can word arguments in this magical, intellectual way that won’t offend anyone and will be healthy for for the world is a total myth that only exists in the upper tier of American society.”
There is way more to human interaction than the extremes of argument and silence. Not every conversation is persuasion-based, and even when attempting to persuade someone, argumentation is not necessarily needed or desirable.
“Most of us (deplorable rednecks who still know how to apply common sense) have gravitated towards the results-based approach like that of Trump (or Ocasio-Cortez on the inverse)”
My Southern bonafides may well exceed yours.
“and away from the pointless approach of Jeb Bush types that seems to be rooted in getting 90-year-olds to think, “hmm, he talks nice… What a nice young man he is…”
Jeb Bush got two terms as Florida governor, and his brother two terms as President. Not shabby for a pointless approach.
“You had to risk offending me just now by responding to my last comment, right? I could have gotten really upset at you for disagreeing and accusing me of a aveira, right? Does that mean you did an issur? No. There is not document or scripture that guarantees a human right to “not be offended.” That would cripple mankind.”
That’s a cop-out that would render the entire concept of onas devarim meaningless. We are not responsible for each and every feeling that someone may theoretically have in response to any statement, but it is forbidden by the Torah to say something intentionally designed or reasonably certain to hurt the feelings of another Jew.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“It’s much more fun and even productive to just hurt the feeling of everyone you don’t like.”
Sorry, onas devarim is forbidden by the Torah. We can’t pick and choose which mitzvos to follow because we think it’s fun or productive. I don’t care one whit what people may think is obsolete in whatever era. We are Jews, and as the people of Hashem we have a higher standard to uphold. Our Torah does not change with the times. And CTLAWYER doing it first does not make it ok.
As for your point about political discourse, if you admittedly have never tried a more civil tone, then you cannot assert whether respectful dialog is effective or not. I have relatives on both extremes of the political spectrum, and have had very interesting conversations with them all.
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“CTL immediately responded to this thread by attacking the OP’s intelligence and then calling groups of the country rednecks. He was not censored.”
Maskim that CTLAWYER’s insult in his response to the OP and his later denigration of rural America were not acceptable things to say. Perhaps those posts should have been edited or deleted by the moderators. While they were not censored, they were censured by other posters 🙂
Neville ChaimBerlin,
“Because you love CT’s crazy leftist ideas and don’t want to let anyone see the opposition?”
So far, 2scents, anonymous jew, klugeryid, MDG, 1, Avi K, Takes3tomakemangos, lakewhut, and Non Political have all either supported the OP or posted rebuttals to things CTLAWYER has written, so I don’t see this supposed conspiracy to silence “the opposition” (and it’s strange that you view yourself as “the opposition”). Maybe tone down the personal attacks and your posts will go through unedited. On another thread, you declared me to be your enemy because I dared, heaven forbid, to espouse a view that was different from yours. Politics really seem to trigger you. Calm down. Republicans are not your team. Yidden are, like it or not. Even if some of them have political views that don’t align completely with yours.
takahmamash,
“We have some sem girls from Darchei Binah coming for Shabbat in a few weeks.”
I recommend having a three-day supply of water (figure 1 gallon per person per day), and a three-day supply of non-perishable food. Make sure your prescriptions are filled, fill your vehicle’s gas tank, and keep important documents in a safe, watertight location. Have a portable radio and plenty of batteries and flashlights handy. If needed, I can help you board up your windows.
“Will they be outgoing or nebby?”
You will be unable to hear anything over the screaming and shouting.
“Are they friendly like out-of-towners or cliquey?”
They’re equally unfriendly to everyone.
“Will they be serious learners?”
They have swords and have been known to attack anyone who disturbs their learning.
“Will they actually be learning the material or memorizing?”
They learn it so well that they memorize it.
“What about chesed – do they have a chesed day?”
They do chessed every day of the year, so they have a mean day. I think the mean day is coming up on a Shabbat in a few weeks…
“What about wearing Gap sweatshirts and flats?”
I’ve heard they eat them.
“Will they look at me if I speak to them?”
They can shoot lasers from their eyes, so probably better if they don’t.
“Will they go to shule?”
They only go to shuls without an “e”.
“Help with the dishes?”
They stack them up high in order to break them all at once.
“What about serving?”
It’s assur to play tennis with them, but they’d probably clobber you.
“do they expect only Badatz hechshirim?”
You must grow everything on-site under the constant supervision of the seminary. Hope you’ve gotten that started by now.
1,
“If Stalin promised yeshiva funding, would you still endorse him and vote for him in a primary?”
הֱווּ זְהִירִין בָּרָשׁוּת, שֶׁאֵין מְקָרְבִין לוֹ לָאָדָם אֶלָּא לְצֹרֶךְ עַצְמָן. נִרְאִין כְּאוֹהֲבִין בִּשְׁעַת הֲנָאָתָן, וְאֵין עוֹמְדִין לוֹ לָאָדָם בִּשְׁעַת דָּחְקוֹ
Both parties have elements in their platforms that would be helpful to the Jewish community. Both have elements that are contrary or antithetical to Torah values. As a religious Jew, I think it’s foolish to get married to one party and sling mud at the other, like it’s “your” baseball team vs a rival. One day the Republicans control the government. The next day it’s the Democrats. Both will court Jewish votes when it serves them, and will stop when it no longer serves them. Why not judge each candidate as s/he comes and vote for who you think will do the best job in that office, and avoid casting American Jewry onto transactional and ephermeral support while antagonizing half of the other people in the country?
I said, “OK Google, can asking ok Google have bad results?” and it returned this thread.
Also, compensation to Federal workers is about 15 percent of discretionary spending, which itself is only about 30 percent of the Federal budget. So your “25% payroll deduction” causes quite a bit of harm for very little fat trimming.
Joseph,
“A quarter of the government has been closed for almost a month and life goes on.”
You do realize that more than half of the workforce in the closed government agencies are continuing to work every day with no pay, right? Most businesses can go on for a short while half staffed and still do the essential functions to keep afloat, for example during the non-Jewish holiday season, but that won’t work long term. And eventually the staff will get upset about the missing paychecks. FTA and DHS employees continue to work so the airports stay open. FDA and USDA inspectors are still make sure the food and drug supplies are safe, and NWS employees continue to issue weather warnings.
Meno,
“I’m Hoping this lasts until April 15 so I won’t have to pay taxes this year.”
If you’re a normal employed person, your taxes have already been deducted from your paychecks all year long. So yes, if you owe a bit more you might not have to pay it until the government reopens, but if you’re due a refund, you won’t get that either.
What’s the difference between luck and mazel?
Takes2-2tango,
“Does any one know how to get this politically trashy news paper from being delivered to my home?”
I don’t know the best way to stop delivery to your home, but giving them lots of free publicity probably wasn’t it.
Gadolhadorah,
No need to be mean. Bestcpa is seeking information about equipment he has never used. He never said that he intends to do something dangerous.
Mmm, that was a good burger. Why is everyone looking at me like that?
akuperma,
You’re going to argue the definition of private with a lawyer? 😂
Chossid,
“All I’m asking is that if you have a question about lubavitche, you can ask it, just don’t come to conclusions based on rumors.
I rest my case”Everything I have posted in this thread has been directly about things written in this thread by Chabad (or claimed Chabad) posters.
Sechel HaYashar,
“But of course, if they aren’t Lubavitch, their Minhag doesn’t bother anyone…”
The people from Dzhikov aren’t here on the CR trying to convert the nebach non-Dzhikovians. If they were, you bet they’d be asked about it.
ZionGate,
C’mon, we have bigger fish to fry here!
I may be beating a dead horse, but the irony of the “Holocaust on your plate” folks taking exception with common idioms makes me sick as a dog. This is the straw that broke the camels back, and I am going to take the bull by the horns and kill the fatted calf. Thankfully there’s more than one way to skin a cat.
Eli Y,
“The point is that for whatever reason, he is not fluent in Hebrew and will not be because it is a lower priority.”
Writing as a BT myself, if at all possible, make this a higher priority. Better skills to learn chumash, mishnayos, gemara, rashi, tosafos, shulchan aruch, etc. inside is something I always wish I had been able to get at a young age. Do it with him if possible!
Eli Y,
“So we began making flashcards the showed the Mitzvot and the Hebrew Pasuk but neither of us understood the the actual Hebrew–rather, we were looking for key words or characters that would be unique to the pasuk so he could recognize it as the one the Mitzva was derived from. IMO, this was ridiculous since we were learning nothing”
I disagree that you were learning nothing by doing what you were doing. Especially if you were combining finding key words/letters with reading the pesukim, however slowly. Any and all exposure to the pesukim will help. The ultimate goal here is not to get to the fun Crown Heights trip, but to build those learning skills. At first, yes, it’ll be picking out only key words, and very slow reading. But as you keep seeing and reading the same words over and over again, they’ll become more familiar, and your ability to read them and pick them out in other pesukim will improve. Unfortunately yes, there is now a steeper learning curve for your son to pass these tests and go on the trip. But rather than closing the book on the higher goal of acquiring the skills by demanding everything in English, is it possible to seek out some additional help? Maybe an older boy in the school needs some chessed hours? Or an older person in your community wants an opportunity to do a wonderful mitzva by tutoring?
Avi K,
“They”
Yuck.
“claim that they are learning for the soldiers but refuse to say the “misheberach’.”
The more common practice is to say tehillim. Also there is “acheinu kol beis Yisroel” said after leining on Mondays and Thursdays. Why are you demanding the addition of a specific tefilla into Shabbos davening?
“They also refuse to say the prayer for the government even though it is a mitzva from a Navi.”
There is no mitzva “from” (?) a Navi to say a specific and new prayer at a specific time that also contains an assertion that not everyone fully agrees with.
MrSarahLevine613,
While it may be convenient to your argument to frame the charedi position towards army service as “we prefer to learn and not lift the burden with you”, it is simply not a correct representation. The army historically and currently has been perceived by all sides as serving two purposes: the primary being protection of the nation, and the secondary being a vehicle for acculturation and assimilation. It is this secondary purpose that chareidim oppose. While Avi K may be a full-throated supporter of both aims, chareidim value their mesora and culture, and do not wish their lifestyle to be destroyed.
So to reframe the debate – if the Israeli government really wants chareidim to serve and want to serve, why are they unwilling to make accommodations? Or, for the cases when accommodations are not possible, why not accept and respect, as the U.S. military does, that there are some who are conscientious objectors, and provide an alternate means of service?
This morning? Before alos hashachar.
username123321,
“Saying that we’re Kofrim over this [davening late] is another. And getting insulted when we argue back is surprising.”
I don’t think I’ve seem or heard anyone assert that Chabad chassidim are kofrim due to zmanim. Certainly not me. That’s a straw man. The concerns are about the perceived deification of the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L and changing the definition of Moshiach to fit him. And the idea that all Jews must accept these precepts or they are spiritually inferior.
Joseph,
What’s a meme?
username123321,
“The Heicha Kedusha by Mincha.”
Watch out for the pot calling the kettle black. The only time I have ever witnessed a “heicha kedusha” davening within the Orthodox sphere was at a Chabad house for shacharis. And I’ve been to Chabad events where a minyan was present, and yet the rabbi refused to set up a mincha minyan, even though it was a small town and there certainly wasn’t any other mincha minyans available. Even the chol hamoed mincha at the zoo by the elephants I went to once had a full chazaras hashas.
username123321,
“It’s a shocker. I know. Lubavitchers believe that their Derech is more true than the other ones.”
I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. The problem arises when people perceive that they are being missionized. Because, another shocker, I know, Litvish, Satmer, Sefardim, etc. also believe that their own derachim are more true than the other ones. And yet, you’ll argue with them over it as you noted above. Don’t get all offended when they argue back.
Milhouse,
“Not from any one incident, but over time they could have realized that something is very wrong.”
Agreed. Should those within the Chabad community be realizing that something is very wrong when the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L is being increasingly deified?
5ish,
“Why do you all constantly feed trolls and think that people saying crazy things for the purposes of riling others up are suddenly going to write sources and have a nice conversation?”
Poe’s Law.
TomimTihyeh,
“Careful – you dont want the snags to know that the Frierdiker Rebbe revealed to us that they think this way! Lol”
You like telling it like it is, “lol”? Fine, I’ll tell it like it is. Better to be snags than ovdei avoda zara. We hope for the coming of melech hamoshiach every day, but we do not hope for a replacement of Hashem, R”L. Yes, I know it is much easier to have a relationship with a man – someone you can see, someone who smiles at you. It is scary to try and relate with a Creator Who is infinite and beyond our limited senses and perceptions, but that is what Hashem asks of us. That is what Avraham Avinu did. That is what Moshe Rabbeinu did, and exhorted us to do. You hold that the Rambam is the final word on Moshiach. Fine. Did the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L build the beis hamikdash? Are we all living in Eretz Yisroel? Is he sitting on the throne of Dovid Hamelech in Yerushalayim? Was the korban tamid offered this morning? No. Therefore, the moshiach has not yet come, and you cannot redefine what the moshiach is to get around that, changing him into some sort of deity. The Christians already tried that 2000 years ago, so you’re late to the party.
You’re getting so bent out of shape over perceived disrespect of your rebbe. But unlike you, who has used nivul peh CV”S to refer to Rav Kotler ZT”L and other precious and holy Torah leaders, nobody here has insulted the Lubavitcher Rebbe, ZT”L. We’re just not accepting him as the moshiach, based on the very clear criteria of the Rambam, and you seem to interpret that as disrespect. Well, guess what? You are disrespecting the Lubavitcher Rebbe, ZT”L much more than anyone else here, because he is certainly not getting nachas in shamayim when a supposed chassid of his makes him into a god, R”L.
There is only ONE G-D, and that is Hashem. And He is not a man.
Slight edit
klugeryid,
“Spanking is physical abuse
Yelling is verbal abuse
Time out is emotional abuse
IGNORING YOUR KID’S WRONGDOINGS IS SOCIETAL ABUSE”Is there really nothing in between spanking and yelling and ignoring a kid’s wrongdoing?
coffee addict,
“Are you saying that the gaonim tannaim and amaroaim who spanked their kids had their kids turn out violent?”
There is a world of difference between “100 years ago” per your OP and the way chazal lived and did things. They are not interchangeable. Don’t look at the early 20th Century or the 1950s as some sort of gold standard.
“I understand that there is a way it should be done, with love and respect but it’s not the spanking it’s the way it’s done”
The problem is, there is almost nobody on this planet who will spank a child for the “right reasons” and in the “right way.” Spanking is almost always the last resort of impatience and frustration with a child, because it yields the “results” of submission and obedience quite effectively. The problem is, while the parent wins the short game, in the long run, submission and obedience aren’t the true results we seek. It’s proper chinuch that we want, and spanking is more often a short circuit than a shortcut to that end. A child spanked by a rageful or frustrated parent, or one embarrassed by his child’s behavior in public, will submit, will cry, and may even apologize for his behavior when that is demanded of him, but he won’t be feeling regret over his actions and a desire to do better. He will be feeling rage towards the parent, or his own humiliation and embarrassment over the spanking, not the behavior.
Meno,
“In less than one second? That would mean light is travelling faster than the speed of light in train man’s reference frame. That’s impossible.”
No, on his watch it’ll be a second. On the platform man’s watch, it’ll be less than a second.
“The discrepancy is not in when the light hits each observer’s eyes. Train man will see two lightning strikes simultaneously and platform man will see two lightning strikes simultaneously.
The discrepancy is in when each observer sees the light hitting train man’s eyes. From train man’s reference point, the light beams from both strikes hit his eyes simultaneously (that’s why he observes the strikes as occurring simultaneously). From platform man’s reference point, the light beams from both strikes do not hit train man’s eyes simultaneously. In other words, platform man sees the strikes occur simultaneously, but he does not see them reaching train man’s eyes simultaneously.”
The platform man observes the following: Two flashes that happened simultaneously at the moment the middle of the train (and the train man) passed him, by calculating that the light from each flash reached him exactly 1 second after the actual strike.
The train man observes the following: Two flashes, with the flash at the front of the train happening just before he passed the platform man, and the flash at the back of the train happening just after he passed the platform man, by calculating that the light from each flash reached him exactly 1 second after the actual strike.
The platform man observes the following about the train man: he was speeding towards one of the flashes at the same time the light from it was heading towards him, so the light reached him in under a second. He was moving away from the back flash, so that light reached him after slightly longer than a second.
The train man observes the following about the platform man: he was speeding towards the back flash, which happened later than the front flash, so the light from the later back flash reached him at the same time as the light from the earlier front flash, which he was moving away from.