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AviraDeArahParticipant
Ujm, most rabbonim are against that for the exact reason you mentioned; if someone needs to be by the international date line, there are psakim, but it’s not something you do for vacation
AviraDeArahParticipantAs was pointed out earlier, in quoting the satmar rov in contrast to the “pashtus” of the chofetz chaim, jachter is making a ghastly straw man argument and ignoring the open rambam which makes the distinction between torah shebichsav and Torah she baal peh. He is making it out to be that the chofetz chaim allowed basically everything but didn’t specify gemara, and comes the extremist and says “oh but he didn’t say gemara! So gemara must be different”, without framing this distinction as a crystal clear rambam.
His quotes about individual women learning have nothing to do with the obligatory gemara studies in MO schools…he admits this himself by his quote from the mayim ganim.
The comparison to secular studies stems from haskalah that makes an equivalence or at least a comparison between the intellect employed in true talmud torah to the methods used in science and math. This can be no further from the truth, but the purim torah made by self styled female “rabbits” proves this point quite easily… They have no capacity to “horev” over a rishon and come up with deep lomdus….they aren’t trained to do more than read the words and compare texts.
AviraDeArahParticipantAkuperma; no posek has said that lechatchila a jew can put himself in a place where it’s at least not clear what time it is.
Shabbos, tefilin, tzitzis, yomim tovin, davening, shma, everything we do requires time.
There’s also no eretz yisroel, so no mitzvos hatluyos baaretz, no birkas levana… the list goes on
AviraDeArahParticipantIf you read the rambaN literally, it sounds as if he’s saying Hashem doesn’t know the details of a person’s life aside from the big things…i honestly don’t know what the ramban means, but when something seems untenable from tanach and chazal, we don’t have permission to go with a literal reading of rishonim.
Also, I’m not maching avek the rishonim; I’m saying that any sugya needs interpretation based on the wide spectrum of chazal and tanach before being properly understood, precisely because we know that these rishonim knew these gemaros snd pesukim like the back of their hands.
Also, do you know any ehrliche person who lives their life thinking that things “just happen”? The mesorah is not childish, it’s a life of awareness of Hashem in every part of our lives that brings to both emunah and ahavas Hashem, when we think about how much Hashem cares about us and is constantly guiding our lives.
Hamaychin mitzadey gaver is another mekor, agav
I sgree that there should be a separate thread about this and women learning gemara.
AviraDeArahParticipantIt would be a hafka’ah of mitzvos. We wouldn’t be able to keeo literally any mitzvah asei.
AviraDeArahParticipantChulin 7b, memra of rabi chanina – ain Odom nokef etzbao ele im kein machrizin etc…
The rambam in yad, hilchos taanis 1,3 אבל אם לא יזעקו ולא יריעו אלא יאמרו דבר זה ממנהג העולם אירע לנו וצרה זו נקרה נקרית. הרי זו דרך אכזריות וגורמת להם להדבק במעשיהם הרעים. ותוסיף הצרה צרות אחרות. הוא שכתוב בתורה והלכתם עמי בקרי והלכתי גם אני עמכם בחמת קרי
Moreh nevuchim is anything but “clear”. Rav chaim brisker told the brisker rov not to learn it when he was young, even though he himself did. He also told his son to think of ain ohd milvado when jn trouble, that there is no power or cause besides Him. It’s also translated from Arabic. My thoughts are that the rambam is referring to all of klal yisroel when he says chasidav, l’afukei goyim. Other achronim make this point without referencing the rambam, that hashgocha protis in its full extent is for klal yisroel and not goyim. We find elsewhere that klal yisroel are called Hashem’s chasidim and “yireim”, if they’re keeping the mitzvos.
The rambam in yad is much clearer. There are tons of pesukim that eschew Mikrah(happenstance) and tell us to ascribe everything to Hashem. The chovos halevavos is also very clear about this in shaar bitachon, as is the sefer hachinuch on jealousy and revenge. He happens to hold that animals and plants are hashgocha klalis, like the rambam you quoted, but the achronim don’t go with it, especially in light of the zohar which has many statements to this effect.
Hashgocha protis in the way the yiddishe mames taught us is the mesorah for klal yisroel, especially after hisgalus hakabalah; it’s not a coincidence that seforim such as the nefesh hachaim, which were based on an understanding of chazal in light of kabalah, stress these issues very much. For us to accept the views of rishonim would be – itself – denying hashgocha in Hashem’s guidance of the flow of the development of hashkofa/mesorah throughout the generations. It’s for the same reason that rav elyashiv banned slifkins books, even though he may have had rishonim supporting some of his views. We don’t have authority to revert back to the rishonim if Hashem has guided the way He wants us to serve Him through the mesorah of the achronim that’s the point the chazon ish in iggros makes about finding kisvei yad and using them to overturn rulings of schronim.
AviraDeArahParticipantI can’t say what the MO scene was like when you were in school or how modern the students were, but nowadays the president of YU said openly that no knowledge is forbidden, contrary to halacha. Ask any MO kid if it’s ok to learn X, and they’ll be shocked at the thought of saying that something is forbidden to learn…puk chazi. That’s how i would have reacted at 14, as would any of my peers
AviraDeArahParticipantReb e, you got me on Hashem; i agreed to you, but I don’t think it needs to ge capitalized if I don’t capitalize other nouns; big letters for Godliness are special for kovod, but i don’t think the title “rav” needs it the same way
AviraDeArahParticipantThat’s not how the rambam is understood; in yad hilchos taanis, he says that when people attribute suffering to mikra or teva, they are “cruel”. Also chazal say openly that one does not stub their toe without it being announced min hashomayim.
The online presentation about hashgocha is very, very deceptive… Everyone agrees that nothing happens without it being caused, whether directly or indirectly, by Hashem, as there is no power besides him, no reality besides him either…
What the rambam in moreh means is explained to mean that he doesn’t sense or realize that it’s from Hashem, mitzad him it is nature.. it appears to a regular person that he is at the mercy of teva because he is not trusting Hashem… Hashem will deliver him into the hands of what he believes in. Special nissim on a constant basis, like by Avrohom, were only for tzadikim who by them everything was hashgocha, so Hashem reveals himself to him more palpably.
Hashem is called the boreh umanhig es kol habruim, he leads all the creations.
AviraDeArahParticipantAaq, that’s interesting because the last lubavitcher rebbe, i am told, said to acknowledge birthdays… Maybe he didn’t go so far as to making parties
The gemara says that there were amoraim who made celebrations of their 60th birthday because it meant that they had been spared the punishment of kares.
AviraDeArahParticipantWhere is the netziv he’s quoting? That seems to be untenable as per the rambams ikrei emunah. Perhaps Avrohom revealed hashgocha, but he didn’t change the way Hashem runs the world. To think that only the big picture matters is an opinion of many Greek philosophers, not gedolei yisroel.
The other quotes I’m not going to comment on, as the conclusions he draws from them are conjecture and extrapolation.
AviraDeArahParticipantAl tehi rasha befnei atzmecha…
AviraDeArahParticipantReb E, the term desensitization is most commonly used to describe a numbing to something which normally stimulates.
I’m using it to describe someone who’s numb to how far he is from kedushah after years of sewage being dumped into his eyes and brain. Be thinks movies don’t affect him.
You’re talking about someone who doesn’t feel gashmius; I suppose the word desensitize is technically fitting, since he has no sense of the stimulus, but it’s for a completely opposite reason.
AviraDeArahParticipantPerhaps we should get moshe rabbeinu’s birthday acknowledged by Google instead, since his is the only birthday chazal see fit to tell us about
AviraDeArahParticipantAre there any figures of note to whom we ascribe significance to their birthday? Moshe rabbeinu is one, but do we know the birthday of literally any other tzadik?
Why is there no mesorah for acknowledging birthdays before the last lubavitcher rebbe? My rebbeim often said that the only person’s birthday mentioned in the Torah is Pharaoh…hamayvin yavin.
We acknowledge yahrtzeits. Why? Because that is the day that the tzadik had finished his accomplishment and was “niftar”, which means dismissed…not death as we usually think of it. We are sad when we lose a tzadik because we need them, but after time we use that very day as a celebration of their achievements…. Avrohom avinu was “bah bayamim”, he had come with his days, meaning he brought all of his days – every one of them was equally valuable, used to their fullest potential.
We don’t find a significance in general to birthdays. I’d suggest that moshe’s birthday is noted by chazal because it was a venoihapachu from haman’s goral; a way of Hashem toying as it were with haman harasha.
AviraDeArahParticipantAlso, rav aharon kotler in mishnas rebbe aharon discusses two types of bitul torah; one is “bekamus”, in quantity, and the other is “be’aychus”, in quality. Meaning, if one is able to learn for 3 hours, but lears for 2.5, that is bitul torah bekamus. If one can learn gemara rashi and tosfos, but is lazy and just learns gemara rashi, that is bitul torah be’aychus (unless you’re learning rashi b’iyun, which is entirely doable and should be done at any opportunity).
Being on the CR and writing my diatribes is a question of bitul torah be’aychus, as i write almost exclusively on halacha and hashkofa topics…it could be bitul torah, or not; I don’t know, but my intention is to try and express authentic hashkofa in a clear way as i have learned it and possibly influence others to not fall lrey to the onslaught of misinformation online and in communities who are unfortunately miseducated.
AviraDeArahParticipantAlso, this mistake of mechanchim has led people to think that games are in the same category as movies, since they’re both bitul torah….for causing this kind of conflation, they bear a part of the responsibility of those who mistakenly believe that “well I’m not learning so i might as well go and watch movies”
AviraDeArahParticipantI think this is my 3rd time quoting the ohr somayach, but it’s a very, very useful geder of bitul torah. He says it grows with you, that it depends on where you’re holding in your capabilities, and that Hashem does not give us mitzvos that we are sometimes unable to do…the minimum is krias shema in the morning and night, but the ceiling never ends.
I agree that mechanchim shouldn’t dismiss anything people do besides learning as bitul torah. There are also usually much more compelling problems in the aforementioned list of activities that are not subject to the relativity of bitul torah.
It is noteworthy though that the ohr somayach is a bit of a chidush and that many rishonim seem to take for granted that one is obligated every second to learn barring necessities such as parnosa, eating, sleeping, etc
That being said, bitul torah is no joke; the zohar says that there are 7 circles of gehinnom, each one is comprised of all the others, and the 7th, comprising 49, is for those who could have learned but didn’t. “Efshar lo lilmod veayno lomeid” it’s also one of the 3 people that Hashem “cries” over.
AviraDeArahParticipantThe only heter to learn about other religions is if you’re a talmid chochom and it’s being done bederech “da ma shetashuv’, can you bring a source aside from a verbal declaration from an unnamed rabbi that for parnosa it’s allowed or that it depends on the person in such a case?
I think the crowd was shocked because it’s not what the gemara and rishonim say.
That issue is not so related to movies and other unnecessary influences; i will agree that there is a vast difference between someone who is forced to learn treif in order to finish school vs someone who carelessly entrusts his neshoma to goyishe directors for the sake of enjoyment
AviraDeArahParticipantA psak that lo sasuru doesn’t apply to individuals who think that they’re strong enough? Seriously?
Gedolei yisroel don’t tell people that if you’re strong you can do things that affect people negatively spiritually; it’s people who sre very desensitized that are the most at risk for harm
AviraDeArahParticipantAaq, bear in mind we’re dealing with a deoraysoh…also we’re not talking about practices of chutz laaretz, where the minhag of being maikil is established. We’re talking about a pirtzas geder in eretz yisroel based on “mitztayer that you’re not mitztayer” garbled reasoning. To say that everyone nowadays is an istinis regarding aveilus, is not so shver because we’re supposed to be naikil in aveilus and it’s likewise a derabonon… it’s also a question of veing very uncomfortable.
Here as we can see from the millions of jews who sleep in a sukkah in eretz yisroel, they are not istinis in this regard..
If one regards himself as an istinis, as the aruch hashulchan says he must be that way in every respect, not just when it’s convenient. Bochurim who go a whole week without showering(this happens in all communities which have bochurim, chabad included…not all, but I’d say 15% in Litvishe and Chasidishe yeshivos) are not istinisim, but they also don’t sleep in a sukkah in neo-chabad…. that’s a clear contradiction
AviraDeArahParticipantAposhitehyid, that is a different discussion… The visual effects of enveloping one’s self in all the senses, visual, audio…a movie is far worse. Books can be very damaging, but there are goyishe books that are kosher, such as rav hirsch telling his kehila to read the works of schiller, saying that he has Jewish values. Notice how he qualifies his advice by saying the he has Jewish values, not that he would advocate reading anything you want in the name of openness or “how weak can you be that you’re so easily influenced”, the sort of apikorsus you hear routinely from MO
AviraDeArahParticipantAaq, i never said a kid will learn in practice that it’s ok, i was saying that the influence is subliminal and takes root unconsciously. Rav shimshon pinkus makes this point, as well as pointing out how many animal love scenes there are in Disney films
AviraDeArahParticipantReb E, at the expense of portraying sinfulness and ignorance, making rabbis senile fools, and promoting the idea that judaism is just a tradition and a culture that’s subject to change.
They had to leave the village, but that was just a buildup to the next stage of assimilation…it wasn’t portrayed as a punishment.
AviraDeArahParticipantMizmoe; indeed he was; he was one of my first very strong influences
AviraDeArahParticipantCoffee; i hope you’re kidding.
AviraDeArahParticipantOnce we get into a conversation about which movies are bad and which are good, we’ve entered a free for all where we alone get to decide what is spiritually harmful…would the same sentiment let you decide what is kosher without being a trained Mashgiach? Would you investigate a company and decide to eat it without a hashgocha? I doubt it. I definitely wouldn’t, despite learning yoreh deah. When we watch a movie, are we in investigative mode, where we’re on the lookout for shmutz or bad influences, or are we in relaxation mode, where we want to be entertained and aren’t really paying attention to subtle apikorsus, inappropriate jokes, etc?
Discussing content misses the “big picture” points of what movies do to us. It’s a red line that the gedolei yisroel drew way back when movies weren’t as bad. They knew what it was and of course what it would become, but not just because of the future…it undoes all chinuch with children. You can spend weeks teaching about lashon hora, and it’s all undone if a disney character says something bad about his counterpart. You can teach how bad jealousy is, but one look at snow white will change that. Speaking of, while we might say to ourselves that children won’t notice, what do you think a story of a woman living with 7 adult men does to their mind? Is it a surprise that we are living in a time when “polyamory” is accepted?
People don’t look beyond the surface…of course the examples I’m giving aren’t even beyond the surface, they’re just things people miss because they’ve been indoctrination in the “mindless television cult(quote from rav avigdor miller’s ‘awake my glory’). How many people have let their impressionable children watch the egregious “fiddler on the roof” because of its featuring “frum” themes? A quick synopsis would be that a frum man has several daughters, each one deviating more from torah than the previous one. The first daughter marries a supposedly observant jew without Shidduchim. They violate negiah in their courtship. The next daughter marries a non-observant communist who twists the story of yaakov and lavan to his ends. He also breaks the (very minimal) separation of men and women at his wedding after the senile “rabbi” says thar it’s not really forbidden for men and women to dance together. Jewish men get drunk with polish goyim. The last daughter marries a non-jew. The play/movie ends with them leaving their town, implying even more “progress” in the form of assimilation. The main character tevya opposed all changes, sayinf “above all, tradition!”, While accepting them each as they come, saying “our ways were new once too”, implying that Torah was merely a custom cv”s.
The movie sets up the scenario of the old school “traditionalist” who wants to stay frum merely because of tradition, against the modernist who wants to join enlightened society. This is a straw man in its highest form, because they’re grossly misrepresenting the orthodox perspective, then knocking it down by saying that things change.
Are you aware that there are jewish day schools that perform this toe’vah in school?
AviraDeArahParticipantShimon, i was specifically talking about such films in my post – the issues involved are not limited at all to pritzus and overt apikorsus.
AviraDeArahParticipantFarby; bitul torah is a subjective issur – it depends on “where you’re holding” and how much you can learn. See the ohr somayach, 2nd piece in hilchos talmud torah. While the sky is the limit to how much we can and should learn, the obligation starts at the bare minimum of krias shema morning and night, and grows as you grow, to where if you can handle learning 3 hours, then learning 2.5 is bittul torah.
I didn’t mention bitul torah in my post because of this; the problems with movies and goyishe culture as a whole have little to do with bitul torah and more to do with akiras hadas (and hada’as), deep intellectual, emotional and spiritual contamination, naking you think and feel like goyin, and cultivating other interests and values besides avodas Hashem.
AviraDeArahParticipantUjm, the gaon once met a person who was a mechalel shabbos and asked him “what’s going to be with bitul torah?”, The man answered…rabbi, do you think i have to worry about bitul torah?? I’m not keeping anything…. The gaon answered him after they punish you for chilul shabbos and neveilos, they’ll give you petch for bitul torah too!!”
Same thing here
AviraDeArahParticipantWhy is it only hashkofic? Shulchan aruch says in OC 307;16 that secular novels which have no yiras shomayim qualities are unequivocally assur because of al tifnu. Moshav leitzim, as well as the issur asei the mishnah beruruah brings from the chinuch of veahavta, that when one cultivates a love of olam hazeh things without any spiritual value, he has been “oiver” on this asei and he has some very strong words about it as well.
This is aside from the sheer ripping of a Jew out of the mindset of torah when experiencing a movie or tv show. Absent all heretical themes that are common nowadays, the fact that he is having his reactions molded by the director’s view of life in every scene…a movie watcher lives vicariously through the characters; heartbeats increase during intense scenes because he sees himself as part of the film. He is being trained that it is normal, for instance, to eat without making a bracha, that when bad things happen he js frustrated and doesn’t turn to Hashem…no one davens and when waking up, people in movies get dressed and go to work, missing our entire morning routine which was designed to put Hashem first and foremost in our lives.
That’s all regarding the most pareve goyishe entertainment….to say the least, the amount of heresy in most films which can damper one’s convictions or make them at least less bothered by things that are against Hashem. Pritzus is of course everywhere….in a different vein, violence makes a person have the middah of achzarius and anger.
I can go on for hours about this issue…it took me years to deprogram the sewer that had been dumped into my head in my youth, and who knows if i have totally eradicated it yet? Kulai hai ve’ulai
AviraDeArahParticipantTrump can win and be ousted by antifa insurgents the day after he takes office – ain lonu lihisha’ayn eleh al avinu shebashamayim..only when the yidden understood that their yeshua was in the hands of Hashem during Purim were they saved… they initially said “achos yesh lonu beveis hamelech”, we have a sister in the king’s house – this is exactly what people did eith trump’s daughter.
AviraDeArahParticipantMelbourne; I’ve seen the piece in shaarei halacha uminhag, i quoted it here…we get it, we simply dispute it.
AviraDeArahParticipantTLIK – it’s more than there not being an obligation to pay alimony, as UJM said, it’s straight thievery to take such money, but many disgruntled wives feel that they deserve it – women talk a lot about “hitting him where it hurts”, getting what they feel owed for all their suffering (sometimes real, sometimes imagined).
Is this what gadolha and syag are defending?
AviraDeArahParticipantPhilosopher, Google shlomo cunin rebbe runs world (head of West coast chabad) if you want to see something eye opening with your actual eyes
AviraDeArahParticipantSyag; can you please explain how batei din do not pasken “that way”? I have not received shimush in choshen mishpat – maybe there’s something i missed in learning, but all of what i said above (along with UJMs posts) were straight gemara, rishonim, and shu”a. Is there a bais din that obligates a man to give child support at the discretion of his wife and not on his own, alimony, or division of estates and property? If so, please name them and their halachik rationale; until such time I’ll assume that you’re going by what people do in practice, which is that money is divided etc….but who says that’s right? Just because people do things in order to get money, doesn’t mean it’s ok. Many “frum” businessmen take jews to court; I’ve even heard some say it publicly in shul without shame – that doesn’t make it right.
Divorce is obviously messy; I do agree with “the little i know”s description, also to those who wanted a source, there was an article about it on YWN a few years ago that has been quoted on this forum many times.
Smerel; I’m sorry, but to assume that the husband is always wrong is gross jurisprudence. I cannot fathom how a rov can have a bias so much, to the point of believing at face value whatever a woman alleges without derisha and chakira (she’s not even kosher le’aidus!). My rebbeim often said that a marriage not working out is more often than not, the fault of the husband, but whatever mistakes he makes have bearing on her rights in a divorce only in regards to obligating him to divorce and forcing him to pay a kesuvah; if his faults are at a certain degree, if he is abusive(not to be confused with being a jerk), doesn’t provide, has addictions, or any number of major problems, then she is entitled to her full kesuva(nowadays with tosefes, it’s about $20k), but if she’s just unhappy, or he is not communicative, or other common complaints, she is saying “maus alai”, that she is disgusted by him and she relinquishes her kesuvah. Those degrees are to be worked out by a beis din who will do proper derishah and chakira, which at the minimum requires knowing both sides of the story.
It’s like the kangaroo courts of college campuses where any and all claims by women are believed without question….a horrible neuvas hadin that i am shocked a dayan would employ.
I agree that there are more male deadbeats and abusers than women; perhaps far more, but there are at least a “miut hamatzui” of horrible women as well.
AviraDeArahParticipantIf you’re talking about the agency that certifies the danishes in Brooklyn 7/11’s, then it’s not even orthodox. “Ethical kosher” with 3 bar lines next to a K is run by a man named benzaquen who has a conservative temple in NY.
AviraDeArahParticipantWhy go to china when we face a threat from the increasingly polarized political landscape, with both the right and left harboring age old conspiracy theories about Jews?
AviraDeArahParticipantThat should be achilas peros and nichsay milug**
In secular law, a marriage is an equal partnership and thus when it is disbanded, an equal split is appropriate. In halacha, that is most certainly not the case. The same way a woman was supported by her husband (or at least he was obligated to do so) she can be supported again by her next husband. Why should she get half or even anything when halacha does not entitle her to it?
AviraDeArahParticipantOne of my rebbeim took rav dovid Soloveitchik on a trip bein hazmanim. He and rav dovid were walking and they saw an arab on a donkey. Rav dovid said they should hurry up to avoid him, and my rebbe said “what is the rosh yeshiva worried about? Ehr iz nohr ains un mir zenen tzvei”, rav dovid answered “ehr is oichid tzvei” (im hadomeh….)
AviraDeArahParticipantPhilosopher, i mentioned that above – it’s the clause of aini nizones ve’aini osah, but that’s not the default relationship.
AviraDeArahParticipantYserbius; what strategies does a man have besides the ability to withhold a get? It might be a stronger weapon, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be used – obviously it should not be used to simply get what he wants or something he isn’t entitled to, but when a woman uses secular court to get her way, which is a very powerful tool indeed (the court can put him in jail if he refuses), why is it unfair to allow him to do so?
My main issue is with the fact that these activists believe the woman without exception; the mere fact that she has been unable to get remarried for whatever amount of years it is, is sufficient to demonize the husband. Are there mean spirited men who wish to torture their ex wives? I’m sure there are a few. It’s possible that there are a lot, but the activists do not know – all they know is that there were some rabbis somewhere who said she was right and that she’s been an agunah for 15 years, therefore the husband is wrong.
Syag – I don’t know about party lines, all I know is that the activists are employing tactics which are usually against halacha, that can potentially render a get pasul and the resulting children mamzerim. Is my assumption about peaceful resolutions wrong? Could be. It could be that there are a lot of husbands who want to take revenge on their ex wives and ruin their lives. It doesn’t change the fact that in practice these social media and protest campaigns are not acceptable. If even one of the accused men are innocent, they have done more harm than good. You are correct that I do not have halachik experience in this area, but then again, who here is a dayan? I think we all know people who were involved in divorce cases.
Benephraim…hafkaus kidushin was discontinued in the times of the rishonim. It also is not up to us to make new scenarios beyond when chazal make them, as we are only doing the shlichus of the former Sanhedrin. What you are suggesting is extremely dangerous and banned universally by the poskim.
GH – I don’t claim to be enlightened; maaseh yadehah lebaalah is a mishnah; or is the mishnah outdated to you? There is a device of aini nizones ve’aini oseh, that a woman can claim independence financially from her husband (aside from achilas leros in nishsay milug, tzon barzel etc) and keep her wages, but the default is that the husband keeps everything in exchange for his obligation to feed the wife. In these cases, the women did not make thus stipulation, so their wages go to their husbands.
AviraDeArahParticipantIf you’re in Manhattan, I’d suggest the classic Williamsburg shatnez lab; it’s probably very easy to get to by subway from where you are
AviraDeArahParticipantI’m glad you have fun with my ignorance of what is probably something like “fomo” why deprive a yid hanaah?
AviraDeArahParticipantThe only time public shaming is allowed for any violation of such things is when a beis din that both have accepted upon themselves – without another beis din taking the other side – says rhat one party, either husband, wife, business associate, etc, is in breach of beis din.
In most of these cases, there is always another side. R. Daniel Eidensohn on his site clarifies this with proof in most of the high profile cases. In one neighborhood, placards with a man’s face and name were distributed on streets, while one beis din was apparently on his side. That is indefensible. Women sometimes wish to take away mens’ entire lives, both in terms of their children and their money. There needs to be a bargaining chip; the man can say that if you want to extort me and take money just because goyishe law says you’re entitled to it (even though she didn’t work for it at all, and even if she was working her wages go to her husband) then you won’t be able to remarry.
I don’t see what’s wrong with that scenario, bitter and sad as it may be. Are there cases where one party is clearly wrong? I’m sure there are, but mindlessly shouting how many years a woman has been an Agunah (and exactly how many are there? 50 in the nyc area?) does not mean she is right.
In almost all of these cases, if a woman would agree to not take any money besides her kesuvah(if she’s entitled to it…her wanting a divorce because she isn’t happy makes her lose that right, a taanah of “maus alai”, which is extremely common) and agrees to joint custody, I’m sure that 95% of the time this wouldn’t be an issue.
AviraDeArahParticipantAlso, why is public shaming only sanctioned when it affects someone else, but in all other areas we are told to “mind your own business” and not judge or protest? Why are recalcitrant husbands evil vile scum, but “chas veshalom” we protest chilul shabbos or pritzus?
Secular philosophy of “it’s only really bad if it hurts someone” is the key here.
AviraDeArahParticipantPlease enlighten me.. What’s TSD? Also i was referring to the teshuva one needs to do for violating halachos commonly if not universally transgressed by MO people
AviraDeArahParticipant…or it could be that they’ve repented
AviraDeArahParticipantRight – haniglos lonu; Hashem indeed wants us to understand the world we were created in and the purpose of our lives.
AviraDeArahParticipantI can’t help but think that sliwa is a mud slinging, angry man who used to have a very clear purpose in life for himself. He had a gang of self styled crime fighters and he felt he was a hero – he has done good things for the community, but has also made hateful tirades against our way of life. He has the trump-esque appeal of the common man, except he does not have the experience in high society and business acumen that the former possessed. He is likewise headstrong, obnoxious… I don’t see any reason at all to entrust him with the stewardship of the city.
Adams has been in public life and is not a known radical leftist; I was very relieved when he won the nomination. Dinkins was a weak leader who was in the pocket of the African American community; I’ve seen no indication that Adams is too….he did once associate with Louis Farrakhan, which is very disturbing, but has since distanced himself.
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