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Men naturally desire forbidden things much more than women, especially in tayvoh issues. They are more proactive and assertive in realizing their desires as well So when a boy goes off, it’s obviously not alright, but the pull in that direction is very strong, and he has the proclivity not only to want it but to actively pursue it.
It takes more for a girl to engage in these things; she has to break down many layers of tznius and bashfulness among men that she grew up with. For this reason it’s harder to break the image of the “bad girl” than the “bad boy”, not that the averah itself is any less severe for either person involved
Shimon….mah inyan shmitah etzel har sinai
I could just as easily say that the Torah only allows one type of insect, so only specific pasttimes are allowed
By goyim, they believe that they can be “platonic” and be “just friends” with members of the opposite gender. Women especially think this is possible. They convince themselves that they are viewing a particular woman as just another person, absent any hormonal response whatsoever. This is a delusion from the yatzer hora, as if a man is being self aware, he would see that even the way he talks to female cashiers in the most casual of circumstances is very different in tone and content than what he would say if said cashier would have been a man.
Reb E, 770 is also gematria בית נחש… Not saying he was that, but my point is that gematrios aren’t always significant
Philosopher, not every cooky perspective is apikorsus…the ones who think that he’s greater than the rambam, still alive, or moshiach would not render their food problematic (though i would not eat in a deluded person’s house). The halachik issue according to most opinions (see above) is the notion that the rebbe is either A) god incarnate B) infinite as god C) controls the world as a partner with god D) divisible part of god (not the “chelek eloka mimaal” that every jew has, the spark of godliness)
Any of the above can be derived from the statement that a rebbe is the essence (atzmus) of god wrapped in a body.
Baseless as it may be, most poskim hold that it’s not apikorsus to believe that the lubavitcher rebbe – or rav shach for that matter – was moshiach. This would allow consumption of messianic lubavitchers’ meat and wine. Rav Menasheh klein held that it was apikorsus and that lubavitcher meat/wine would be problematic as a result. My rebbe Rav Belsky told me directly that the OU checks every lubavitcher shochet to see if he is an elohist, a believer in atzmus ideology. I hope this standard is still in place 5 years after his petirah.
Kcup – i was hesitant to quote the statements that I’ve heard attributed to him, such as 770 being the beis hamikdash, or “the house of moshiach” – can you please tell us the source?
I think what ujm meant – and i completely agree – is that writing the name of a woman on an invitation in and of itself isn’t feminist, nor does it have to symbolize anything. However, if people omit the name out of a sensitivity to tznius that is not required by halacha, or even if their original intentions were to save money on printing costs (entirely possible) then to be’davka change it due to modern cultural ethos would be in fact, following a feminist agenda.
Justalakewooder – the actual translation of the word tzenua would explain the answer to your question. It’s not just about hirhurim, it’s about kol kevudah bas melech penima. “Tzenua” means literally “hidden”
Shimon, the maharal, rizhiner rebbe, and many others had a yichus mesorah as being descendents of Dovid hamelech….that part isn’t the difficulty with the lubavitcher rebbe; the main issue, as you said, is that a “second coming” ideology wherein a Messianic candidate who fails to accomplish his mission must return after death to finish the job.
Let’s go through some criteria: rambam in melachim 12:3 says:
כשתתיישב ממלכתו ויתקבצו אליו כל ישראל. יתייחסו כולם על פיו ברוח הקודש שתנוח עליו. שנאמר {וישב מצרף ומטהר} וגו’. ובני לוי מטהר תחילה ואומר זה מיוחס כהן וזה מיוחס לוי
Moshiach will use ruach hakodesh to identify the yichus of the shvatim, starting with shevet levi – he will clarify who is a cohen, Levi, etc. “All of yisroel will gather unto him”.Also in melachim 11:3:
ואל יעלה על דעתך שהמלך המשיח צריך לעשות אותות ומופתים ומחדש דברים בעולם או מחיה מתים וכיוצא בדברים אלו. אין הדבר כך. שהרי רבי עקיבא חכם גדול מחכמי משנה היה. והוא היה נושא כליו של בן כוזיבא המלך. והוא היה אומר עליו שהוא המלך המשיח. ודימה הוא וכל חכמי דורו שהוא המלך המשיח. עד שנהרג בעונות. כיון שנהרג נודע להם שאינו
Here the rambam is clearly saying that moshiach need not do miracles, which goes against a lot of the messianic claims that chabad makes – they say that while he accomplished nothing of the following requirements (see below), he was a baal mofes and therefore a candidate for moshiach.
ואם יעמוד מלך מבית דוד הוגה בתורה ועוסק במצות כדוד אביו. כפי תורה שבכתב ושבעל פה. ויכוף כל ישראל לילך בה ולחזק בדקה. וילחם מלחמות ה’. הרי זה בחזקת שהוא משיח. אם עשה והצליח [ וניצח כל האומות שסביביו ] ובנה מקדש במקומו. וקבץ נדחי ישראל הרי זה משיח בודאי
Here the rambam sets up two tiers – one is “chezkas moshiach”, the presumptive moshiach, and the other is “moshiach vadai”, a certain moshiach. If a KING arises from bais dovid, gets ALL of klal yisroel to keep the Torah, and fights the WARS of Hashem, he is assumed to be moshiach. If he returns all of the Jews to eretz yisroel and BUILDS the beis hamikdash, he is definitely moshiach.There are 13 million jews in the world; 15-18% identify as some sort of orthodox. 94% of American jews are not orthodox. The lubavitcher rebbe accomplished a lot in kiruv – every neshoma is precious – but realistically, only a small fraction of the jewish nation “gathered unto him”, and even when they did, he did not perform this task. Among orthodox jews, the lubavitcher rebbe was one of many influences – rabbi yoshe ber Soloveitchik, rav moshe feinstein, rav aharon kotler, rav Shraga feivel mendelowitz, the satmar rov, the tzelemer rov, rav yosef breuer, the bluzhever rebbe, rav yonasan shteif, the kloizenberger rebbe, and many others all were extremely influential in building American jewry. The fact that the lubavitcher rebbe made headlines sometimes and appeared on television (which chabad makes a huge deal out of for some reason) did not mean that he represented all of klal yisroel. He exerted himself to help russian jewry, but sadly the overwhelming majority remains completely disenfranchised from yiddishkeit, 27 uears after his passing.
They claim that he “fought the wars of Hashem” by doing kiruv. That does not fit with the seder of the rambam, because the following words are “if he succeeds and fights all the surrounding nations”
Criteria:
1. Appointment as king (most of the Jewish people did not accept him as their rebbe, let alone king)
2. Getting all of klal yisroel to follow the Torah
3. Fighting the wars of Hashem
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4. Returning HIMSELF all the jews to eretz yisroel, not merely watching the zionists try to do it
5. Building the beis hamikdash bemkomoThe lubavitcher rebbe accomplished none of these whatsoever.
Yserbius – if you can please find documentation of either of those claims, they would be most appreciated. He was famous for being very perceptive. I don’t doubt that he was gifted, and perhaps a genius – I really don’t think they could have kept him unaware of what waa going on all around him…that just doesn’t jive. None of that validates him, even though some will interpret any praise of the rebbe’s abilities as approval of his actions, it ainply isn’t.
He spoke regularly to thousands; he had plenty of opportunities to set the record straight, even if it was a small contingent of followers who thought he was moshiach…that would have been the responsible thing to do.
Aposhitehyid, I’ll explain how your statement doesn’t hold by way of moshol. Imagine i ask you “what’s the best way to let the water out of a bathtub – a cup or a pot?” You might say pot, but the truth is that the beat way to do it is by unstopping it, an option that i neglected to mention. In your question, you are presenting only two options – either it’s against halacha or it just doesn’t make sense to me.
The other option is that it is against daas torah and does not make sense.
Edited
That’s unstopping the bathtub.
Also, if the rebbe wanted to dispel the notion that he was being considered moshiach, it would have been a lot more direct to simply issue a public statement to this effect. Simply not visiting eretz yisroel is a very subtle message, no? If people were claiming that I was moshiach, I would emphatically deny it.
As it happens to be, someone thinking they’re moshiach in and of itself is not disqualifying. It’s the megalomania that generally accompanies such a belief that is. It’s not appropriate to say who, but there was a great rebbeh who believed himself to have the neshoma of moshiach for his generation. He once answered a talmid who asked him why he doesn’t talk about moshiach (since most other rebbes did) with a moshol. He said that by a wedding, everyone’s talking about the choson…. except the choson himself. This is also not hearsay; it’s in an old sefer of zichronos about this rebbe. This rebbe is also a household name in both litvishe and chasidishe families.
Needless to say, no one claimed he was moshiach after his petirah.
Do you know how many stories the meshichisten have to the contrary? The rebbe also said that “the time of your geulah has come”, and gave other vague remarks. He also participated in parades made in his honor with huge pictures of him being paraded through the streets. No other chasidus does that. Whether he thought that he (or his father in law) was moshiach isn’t clear at all, and denying it to one person outside of his inner circle when questioned is only a proof if we first establish the reliability of his word.
Hml – as difficult as this may be to hear, performing miracles is not a proof of someone’s authenticity or correctness. We find chumash openly telling us so – כִּֽי־יָק֤וּם בְּקִרְבְּךָ֙ נָבִ֔יא א֖וֹ חֹלֵ֣ם חֲל֑וֹם וְנָתַ֥ן אֵלֶ֛יךָ א֖וֹת א֥וֹ מוֹפֵֽת (devorim 13:2). If someone tells me that they or their father in law are the essence of god wrapped in a body and their followers say that their leader runs the world, all the miracles in the world will not convince me otherwise. Miracles can be from the sitra achra as well.
AAQ – i too am troubled by the insularity; they seem to be much more open to the likes of steinsaltz, because he had some ancillary chabad affiliation, than gedolei yisroel.
Mesivta – the gemara says “he’alu mibavel”, not stam that they were mishtamesh with them, which I think means that they “elevated” the names from there. It’s drush but it’s meduyak.
Gadolha, i was answering the claim that either opposition to chabad is based on not learning enough or not learning chasidus, to which i replied that one of the most esteemed experts in chasidus – the satmar rov – was vehemently opposed to the lubavitcher rebbe.
Lost – do you think being complacent about avodah zara masquerading as yiddishkeit in klal yisroel is the result of not learning enough? Isn’t the opposite true, that the more one learns, the more one is bothered by the violation of that which he holds most dear, and that one who is not very involved in learning will not be bothered by it enough to react?
The satmar rov was very educated in chasidus. He had some very choice words regarding the lubavitcher rebbe.
AAQ – how would Hashem have referred to rivka as mrs yitzchok before she was married?
Why the Torah sometimes refers to women as eshes so-and-so, and other times by their name is up for discussion… I’d imagine there are times that their significance is defined by their relationship with their husband, as in the case of eshes potifar, where the whole problem was that she was married, and ohn ben peles’ wife, who is noted for saving her husband
But you really should avoid ona’as devorim. It is an issur that can be violated online – saying someone sounds crazy, and qualifying it with “no offense”, as people do with “nisht oif shabbos geredt” before being mechalel shabbos, doesn’t help.
Shimon – it takes a paradigm shift for a lubavitcher to understand that there is a possibility of questioning the authenticity of the lubavitcher rebbe’s teachings. It does not happen overnight. Don’t be surprised when they use the lubavitcher rebbe as a source to explain the lubavitcher rebbe.
Farby – vayehi ohr is not elokus. We’re not pantheistic where we think everything is god cv’s. It is an emanation and the will of Hashem manifested.
Shimon – i shutter to think of what implications all of the above have for gerus, kidushin, gitin…what if the aidim by a chupah were kosher but by a get they were ovdei avodah zara? What if someone converts thinking these things? All extremely frightening
Shlucha…you might not be making it up, but proving the lubavitcher rebbe right because he said something regarding his father in law is not logical…
Shechina is a concept clearly outlined in the seforim – it is not a physical manifestation of Hashem cv”s or another “part” of Hashem. It is his restricted presence that he makes palpable – it can be compared to covering a bright light with many levels of sheets. When you remove some layers from one area, the light is visible, but it’s really all there underneath. This is how the tanna answered the goyishe philosopher who asked him “how much shechina do you have?”, He did use a different moshol though…a dark building opening up a small window to let in light.
Same thing with the shechina being in a specific place – it’s wherever Hashem opens up the window kiviyachol
That has no bearing on a claim that gods essence has become wrapped in a body. Also, atzmus elokus is not a term for the shechina – if you have a source that says otherwise, please let me know as i am not an expert in chasidus.
Ujm, i have to partially admit that BTs usually bring an enthusiasm that is lacking in us – mitzvos anoshim melumada is an old yatzer hora and the default if you’re not a ben aliyah. There are countless enthusiastic, sincere and growing FFBs, but almost any BT who has become totally frum will have a lot of unique maalos. By and large, they did have to fight hard for their yiddishkeit. That doesn’t mean that they don’t have unique disadvantages too, such as vestigial remains of their former life, not knowing social boundaries, sometimes lacking in sensitivities that FFBs have. However there are other sensitivities that BTs excel in – they can spot goyishe ideas easily, and they also know a lot of hilchos deos, usually more than someone who went through the mainstream system.
Common….i really don’t want to name names, but by and large, BTs are very sensitive to such things, moreso than people who might be closer to frumkeit in action, but never had to undergo an overhaul of hashkofa and emunah. The average BT knows the 13 ikkarim and can rattle off kuzari, rav hirsch, chovos halevavos and more off their fingertips – they had to learn more hashkofa to cleanse themselves of their past. The only people I’ve heard defend such practices have been “unzerer”, usually non-MO too. There is unfortunately a member of the moetzes who actively encourage energy healing – it pains me every time I think about it
Nobody’s listening to BTs that have long hair and are oisvarfs; it seems you have an axe to grind about BTs in general, that they’re the ones responsible for bringing outside influences into the klal. If anyone’s been successful in that regard, it’s been both the “frum” colleges and the age of accessibility of information via the internet, especially the bloggers of the early 2000s. Avi Weiss and his ilk were all FFBs, if you can call them such, as were the orthodox feminists…to a lesser extent, the cultural icons who have had negative influences such as Lipa are likewise almost all FFB.
We’re not “searching” for mystical reasons. This isn’t like how scientists used to attribute unexplained phenomena through metaphysics, which they abandoned once they found a viable scientific reason.
In hashkofa, the metaphysical isn’t an attempt at explaining something unknown; it’s a reality which doesn’t preclude physical earthly reasons. When chazal say that there’s a malaach underneath each blade of grass telling it to grow, that was not said because they struggled to understand why the grass grows and a malaach making it happen solved the conundrum. Rather, they were saying what’s going on behind the scenes, on the higher planes that exist above the physical world. The physical world, termed “olan ha’asiah” is the last rung in a domino effect sequence that starts on most high in shomayim… however ultimately what’s decided in shomayim is due to our actions (asiah) down here – that’s why yaakov saw the malachim “olim veyordim bo”, first rising from earth and then going back down to it from shomayim.
It could be I’m reading a lot into what you’re saying, but i think it’s worthwhile to explain this distinction nonetheless.
Anyways, the reasons given augment our understanding of history
Aposhitehyid; owing to chazal’s idea of yeridas hadoros, nobody in a later generation is greater than that of a previous one. If Hashem has thousands of tzadikim, neviim and chachamim who were all greater than even our greatest, He would take one of them. There’s a limit to the “no one knows who’s greater” idea that the rambam writes about – it’s also more about nekudas habechira than actual madrega, meaning I can look at a tzadik and know that objectively he’s on a high madrega, but his relative level of chashivus would depend on factors that a person cannot know, such as nisyonos etc
Philosopher; not to be paranoid, but we really don’t know how long ago these infiltrations happened – it could be there have been agents doing these things for decades, preying on the kind of people you described. I still don’t think it’s even a miut she’aino matzui – kids going off happens all the time r”l, but aside from your story, I’ve never heard of any becoming christian
Increasingly you’ll find non-messianics say “well, he could be…we just want moshiach whoever he is”. Held to their word, few in my experience will give a simple “no” to the question. The same way they will not say “no” to a question if they think a rebbe is the essence of god wrapped in a body.
What you’re referring to in the “killed” vs “dying” is a diyuk that messianic lubavitchers make in a rambam, which chooses to use rhe word killed rather than death. This would beg the question…why would it make a difference? If the point is that a candidate for moshiach must accomplish his mission, then once he leaves the world, he has not fulfilled that task and is therefore disqualified for being considered moshiach.
Then the question remains why the rambam chose the word “killed” , and there’s a very simple reason – he was coming “la’afukei” to exclude, the christian claims that yushke was moshiach. There is only one opinion in the gemara that moshiach can be “min hameisim”, from the dead, and that if he is so he must be as great as Daniel, which the lubavitcher rebbe most definitely was not.
Yes, yaakov lo meis. Eliyohu also didn’t. But everyone else… Moshe rabbeinu, dovid hamelech….the lubavitcher rebbe was greater than all of them? it just seems that they’re trying to find a source for the idea of someone not dying, and then attributing it to their rebbe, because it’s impossible that their leader would leave them – also, the divinity complex makes his death impossible as well.
Gadolha – never, not once, was there anyone who claimed that rav shach or the steipler were divine beings, the essence of god wrapped in a body, prayed to them, or believed that they can read all of their thoughts from heaven, or that they didn’t die, or that we do mitzvos because they said to do them.
The fringiest Litvishe just say it’s assur to work and other extreme views that are not at odds with the 13 ikkarim.
The comparison is missing a huge exclusive problem in chabad. We all have issues, but theirs is unique.
Ujm, there wasn’t a legitimate trial – it was a farce of a court. Halacha demands that goyim make court systems that are reasonable and engage in due process…here they didn’t at all.
*First post aas just “ujm, there isn’t”, i pressed send by mistake
Aposhitehyid; is there a context where it is appropriate for someone to say that god has a body cv”s, doesn’t know the past cv”s, or any other statement that contravenes the 13 ikkarim? There simply isn’t
It’s the first step
Let’s be real for a minute; does anyone here know anyone who has the slightest inclination towards Christianity? Even a hint of curiosity? We grow up knowing what they’ve done to us, I don’t think any frum or even any historically educated chiloni would tolerate it.
What I’m more concerned with, if we’re going to talk about the infiltration of foreign religions, is the proliferation of energy healing practitioners who peddle their wares to desperate frum families beset with woe and pain. There are even rabbis who back them… yidden who would cover their ears if they heard kiekergaard quoted have no problem with eastern bonafide avodah zara – it’s mind boggling and very scary. One prominent figure in Lakewood, a posek for a large constituency said to his talmidim that they can ask “the kochos” for help in healing, because it’s derech refuah and they don’t mean to daven to it. When my rebbe rav belsky heard this his exact word was “crackpot”
AAQ – you’re in good company. When rav schwab was told of a frum jew who was accused of fraudulent business activities, he asked the talmid…”a “what” jew?” The talmid repeated…a frum jew, rav schwav said that the term frum cannot apply to such a person (if he had in fact done what he was accused of)
Yabia – your first mahalach is a lot closer to the truth; we say eilu ve’eilu divrei elokim chaim….not every rishon holds this way, but that’s the accepted mesorah
Ujm, that’s only partially true – we do find chazal differentiating between dor enosh and then-current idol worshippers, as being “minhag avoseihem beyadeyhem”
Aposhitehyid; this is why i said “usually”, and that it’s a “sign,” nothing’s absolute.
Of course, the ever flowing spring has limitations; we are not on the level to overturn the decisions of batei din that have come before us, because the halacha is that to do so, we must be greater in chochma and number.
Great question! Yuda, that reply was insulting, and dangerous…
In Torah she baal peh, machlokes develops as an outgrowth of different understandings. Both sides are branches of the root of Torah reasoning, just one focuses on one aspect, and the other, a different one. For example, in the mishnah you quoted… do we reckon rosh Hashanah l’ilonos based on when the physical manifestations of fruit begins (the syrup filling the tree and the internal budding), and when the majority of the year’s fruit-growing rain has finished falling on the 15th, or do we always go by the first of the month wherein such things happen. Both are logical and revolve around the same idea, with two diverging approaches.
Torah she baal peh was not a static set of kitzur shulchan aruch-esque laws. It was designed to be an ever flowing wellspring of thought and logic that will inevitably produce different results depending on the shoresh neshoma of a given chochom. As long as the chochom has a mesorah on how to go through a sugya, has yiras shomayim, and dedicates his life to the procedure, he is assured siyata dishmaya that his psak will reflect one of the 70 “faces” of Torah. Hashem “agrees” to whatever psak the beis din reaches, as can be seen with the oven of rebbe Eliezer, where a bas kol agreed to him, but the halacha did not follow it. They were listening to Hashem more in ignoring the bas kol than had they listened to it, because Hashem wrote “al pi hatorah asher yorucha” and “laav beshomayim hi”.
Philosopher; I agree it’s unstable, but i think it’s the best bet and the surest hishtadlus oriented solution to both the safety of the yidden there, and the removal of the aforementioned constant, 24/7 chilul Hashem that has been going on since 1948.
It really is a shame when one’s Jewish identity depends on the secular state of Israels existence… What would you do if it turned the way of the Soviet union and disappeared overnight? Would you feel less Jewish, that your Jewishness has been lessened? I for one would rejoice at the answer to our prayers of “כי תעביר ממשלת זדון מין הארץ”
My mistake, i wrote that i was responding to AAQ when i meant to respond to Avi – my eyes played tricks on me.
I’ll also add that Mendelssohn and his ilk believed that becoming assimilated, dropping Torah, and becoming similar to goyim would stop anti semitism. Zionists believed the flip side, that dropping Torah, becoming our own secular country with an army, would stop anti semitism, because “well show them! Never again!” Both are equally wrong. Anti semtism is from Hashem and it’s specifically designed to distance ourselves from both such machinations. The jews in yerushalayim who responded to the threat of rommel by fasting and doing teshuva, rather than take up arms, were saved, while their European counterparts who “declared war on hitler”( in the publicized words of chaim weitzman) were not. The brisker rov made this remark when yerushalim was saved; it’s not my chiddush.
AAQ – I think America would be the best bet because they have had a relationship with Israel for decades, millions of Jewish votere live there, they respect freedom of religion, and have a great strategic interest in having a foothold in the middle east.
Philosopher – I’d rather not mention the examples of horrifying perverted child abuse that is currently being decried by parents across the country ..oi leoznaim shekach shom’os…children are being sexualized and exposed to things that are beyond pritzus, they are being programmed to be spiritually and mentally ill.
Of course, it’s only a matter of time before the weaker among us begin education programs that mimic some of these ideas
Tzadik gozer is the idea that a tzadik is in sync with the ratzon Hashem; retzon yireav yaaseh; like the tanya talks about the avos as being the mercava for Hashem – if a true tzadik wants something, it’s a sign that Hashem wants it too.
Only Hashem however, actually runs the world
AAQ – where is there an obligation to set up a government in eretz yisroel? The shalosh shevuos and decree of galus preclude that. It’s for that reason that the sefer megilas ester on the sefer hamitzvos of the rambam holds that the rambam omitted yishuv eretz yisroel because it’s not possible nowadays due to the shevuos. Tosfos, rabeinu chananel and other rishonim hold that rhere is no mitzvah at all bezman galus. The ramban, who holds that there is a chiyuv to live in eretz yisroel, does not hold that we should make governments or go en masse, as he quotes the shavuos in his maamar al hageulah.
The rivash holds that the mitzvah of vehorashtem is to own land individually, so if jews owned land under American sovereignty, we would still be mekayam yishuv eretz yisroel according to that shitah.
Even if it would be a mitzvah, it would not permit us to endanger jewish lives, both because many hold it’s not a chiyuv, and because we have no sanhedrin or king to lead us in a battle against the goyim to take over the land – rebbe akiva thought this was being realized under bar kochva, but this was not to be so – all the more so under a rasha like ben gurion.
Also, it seems pretty clear that the removal of the colossal, non-stop chilul Hashem perpetrated by the very existence of a secular , state that calls itself Jewish, would be more important than the mitzvah of yishuv eretz yisroel even if we would say that it’s a complete chiyuv, and even if we would disregard the shevuos.
This situation isn’t like the jewish monarchy in eretz yisroel in the times of tanach where we would say that losing life is part of having a country – Zionists, both secular and religious, enjoy these phantasmagorical portrayals…netanyahu is the king and meir kahanah is the navi…they fancy themselves as the soldiers of yore, “holy” etc. The descriptions the religious zionist rabbis give them make heros out of mechalelei shabbos and occasionally murderers. The state of Israel, everyone would have to agree, will need to be overhauled so much when moshiach comes that it will resemble nothing of its current self…why then would it need to be preserved at all?
If they’re a Jewish army, where is the cohen meshuach milchama? Why are there women allowed to fight (and sin) with the men?
Re, toeva issues; it wouldn’t be any worse than it already is.. Actually, to assuage the Arabs it might even be better.
As far as Israel’s success, the fact that they depend on foreign aid runs contrary to that assessment, and it is likewise irrelevant if our concern is protecting Jewish lives and removing chilul Hashem.
Halevi, the gemara says that but i seem to remember the rambam using the expression to denote what’s mutar – I’ll look it up again
Jewish lives would be safer if the USA adopted Israel as a territory like Puerto Rico. It would have full protection, freedom for us to keep the Torah without being coerced into secularism, it would help stop a great deal of anti semitism, and a lot more.
Sanhedrin 46a is one place to find the idea, the gemara says it beferush, that beis din gives makos and can kill shelo min torah velo laavor al divrei torah, rather to make a siyag. The gemara then brings two examples of this; one was a man who rode a horse on shabbos, and was given skilah, even though it’s derabonon. There was a man who had relations with his wife under a tree, and he was given makos – the gemara ends off by saying that they didn’t deserve it, but “hashaah tzorich lekach”, it was needed in that time to prevent people from sinning.
Like i said earlier, he tested them and only killed them after they demonstrated their kishuf.
Also, it seems that these are “nip it in the bud” type issues; if something is widespread already, I don’t think that we would enploy horaas shaah, but i could be wrong about this.
Regarding magicians and sleight of hand, according to the rambam there are different levels. “Achizas aynayim” as termed by chazal would be permitted, which would include parlor card tricks, pulling a never ending ribbon, and others. Grander illusions that seem to show true power over creation would be kishuf and a chiyuv misah. Magic shows that are common even in the frum world are allowed if the magician demonstrates how to do one trick, and announces that this is all an illusion and not real sorcery. See Iggros Moshe YD 4:13, and rav Belsky in shulchan halevi page 138.
According to the rambam, the fact that the practitioner is trying to make others believe he is a sorcerer is enough to violate the issur.See also chochmas odom 89:6 who prohibits badchonim by weddings to perform magic tricks and has some very strong words on the matter