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There is an obligation to be maavir sedra too, but most people don’t spend more than an hour a week doing it. We don’t find talmidei chachamim who don’t know tanach; they do! But the stressing of it in day schools and MO yeshivos leads to neither understanding of tanach al pi chazal, nor success in learning altogether. This can be seen by the amount of MO graduates (the half who are even frum) who learn on their own or at all after their year of fun and games in eretz yisroel. They might listen to inspiring speeches encouraging them to be good older brothers who take their younger brothers to movie theaters (i heard a motivational MO rabbi speaker person say this once) but very few learn in a semi-serious (i.e. daf yomi) context.
AAQ, the gemara itself says not to learn nach “overly”. I will add that people who learn nach in yeshivos often learn it without the nesorah of gedolei yisroel; they use it to question daas torah and dismiss many teachings of gedolei yisroel. They “read” about Devorah and think that women being rabbis isn’t such a bad idea, for one example. They also emphasize the historical side of nach, often against the accepted interpretation of the pesukim. They use it to support zionism and believe it engenders love of the land (it could if you distort it that way…)
All of our ideological enemies have stressed tanach, from the tzedukim, karaites, maskilim, secular zionists, and christians…what smerel said about how to build talmidei chachamim is 100% true. The poskim hundreds of years ago said that being meshalesh learning doesn’t apply nowadays, and that gemara takes priority, both because it is “balul mekulan” and because it contains the necessary tools to pasken halacha
I’m a professional babysitter, since that’s the heter for taking money to teach torah to children
Just because we yidden who read the news are used to hearing stories of smugglers getting caught, has no bearing on sheltered yidden in eretz yisroel who might not have heard of the past events. Drug dealers are indeed preying on the innocence of charedi youth.
I don’t see how we have the right to be a prosecutor and decide the fate of another jew who has not been tried in a beis din. We have no concept, in most cases, of jail. We definitely don’t have an idea of jail as a punishment in halacha. Who are we to decide that another jew should rot in a jail cell to “learn his lesson”? The gemara says that jail is worse than death (im pretty sure it’s in bava metziah, I have to check it up later). We sometimes take our cues from what society around us thinks is appropriate.
Also, I’ve heard the story about rav schwab before; comparing a rov not wanting to help a dishonest businessman who got caught to a case of a young person who probably was not aware of the severity of the situation is mistaken. Helping ganovim is a chilul Hashem and that might take priority over freeing a jew from jail. It would still be our responsibility to make sure he has tefilin, etc…being a ganov doesn’t mean you’re no longer jewish, or that we have no responsibility to him anymore.
rabbi hoffman, in his otherwise very good article, seems to be unaware of the amount of sakanah in modern day jails. Preventing men from being נאנס is pikuach nefesh, and this is very common, especially when the victim is an easy target like the average orthodox jew.
I agree with his conclusion regarding lev tahor; they’re rodfim who will harm others if left free.
I agree with some of what nosemorah is saying; i should have mentioned the nesivos sholom, as it’s the most user friendly sefer that doesn’t require a background in chasidus (or much machshava for that matter). I agree that tanya should be learned with someone who’s not lubavitch, because they are medayek in it like pesukim in chumash and build a lot more on it than the rest of the world does on seforim written by achronim. You can be medayak in it the same way you are medayak in the mesilas yeshorim (which should definitely be done as per the hakdama), but there’s a limit.
Eres is hebrew too; it’s in tehilim, the kapitel we say by nefilas apayin
Jews spoke a judaicized aramaic, similar to yiddish. I don’t think they had to adhere to very strict dikduk rules like lashon kodesh
Rambam was mentioned in the OP
Yeah TAS, I was going for non-iyun, because once we start talking about iyun, you need a lot of rishonim and achronim, but everyone has their own “go to” seforim. I’m very into birchas avrohom, machlas moshe, rav elyashiv’s “haaros” series, minchas yehudah, ayalas hashachar…i find my questions are often addressed by those seforim. I also like to use dibros moshe…all of this aside from the basics like pnei yehoshua, reb akiva aiger, chasam sofer, and others depending on the mesechta, like aruch lenar
The only reason why i give homework is so that my kids shouldn’t think that secular studies is more important than kodesh, since they give homework for the former
Ujm, i agree that that’s usually the caae, but there have been some frum politicians that have been true שלוחי דרבנן
I’m sorry to say so, but someone learning iyun without the heiligeh reb akiva aiger is לא ראה מאורות מימיו…the way reb akiva eiger answers a tosfos, and then proceeds to uproot everything you thought you knew about the sugya with mesmerizing mastery of shas on his fingertips….
Also meshech chochma
I’d add shmiras shabbos kehilchasa, “hamafteach” from feldheim, the kezayis book,rav avigdor miller’s hashkofa trilogy, rabbi chaits illustrated 39 melachos, sefer chofetz chaim, yad moshe / yad yisroel indexes, beis halevi on chumash
Hey, farby and I actually agree on something
A 17 year old going out with a gun in the middle of a mass riot to try and be a hero isn’t something laudable; i agree that he was not trying to br a murderer and acted in self defense, but he’s a pretty bad role model and not someone we should praise. Not going to jail is fine, but he should get himself a good therapist
Ts, you mentioned exclusively seforim written by the baal hatanya and the last lubavitcher rebbe… can we be a little more diverse?
Great question!
Yismach yisroel is very uplifting; you can skip the kabalah parts. It always puts a smile on my face. Divrei yoel is one of my favorite drush seforim; the satmar rov builds up a massive edifice in each shtikel. Sfas emes is very open ended; they call it a “mirror” wherein you see the Expression of your neshoma in the way you understand it. rav gedalya schorr”s oldest son rav yitzchok meir schorr told me that the later years are easier. The 2nd half of the tanya is very good for understanding the chasidish approach to avodas Hashem and it’s among the more organized chasidish seforim; those perakim are referred to as the “poilisher prakim”, because post kotzk polish chasidus was not very into theoretical kabalah discussion.
I’d also recommend learning nefesh hachaim at the same time to get a balanced view.
I think a stalin/mao/chavez wannabe would be a more appropriate comparison, as she is on the left, not the extreme right
I can’t source it; it’s what i always heard from my rebbeim…i can do a little digging on the matter and post if I find something
There are definitely exceptions! We’ve had many ohevei yisroel throughout the generations; sugi hara, schindler, bomberg(the man who printed shas), many others, just those 2 come to mind
Normative halacha as outlined in shu”a y.d 246:4 . is that learning secular studies is only allowed here and there “b’akrai”. Mechaber and rema, nosei keilik bring none who argue. The rashba banned all secular studies until age 40. What people did in europe to go to university not to make parnosa, but just to be educated, was flat out assur.
AAQ – steinsaltz was called a kofer explicitly by the steipler and rav shach. No, they did not use that term mildly. The only place steinsaltz had refuge from the controversy was in chabad, because of an ancillary affiliation that he had with the lubavitcher rebbe. You will see steinsaltz gemaras in chabad shuls at times.
The issues with him can be clearly seen in his book “biblical images” where he casts people in tanach like characters in a soap opera. He also was part of a fake Sanhedrin. He was a very intelligent baal teshuva who had no mesorah and made up things as he went along. He also wrote garbled kabalah books in English for “laymen” and decided that he was qualified to reprint shas with his perush next to rashi’s.
Gadolha, i was addressing your stated point. Moving on to your disagreement with the premise of my position is disingenuous
I was wondering that too
My father lived in a a southern state for a long time; there was a very tiny community, one orthodox shul with barely a minyan. One day a friend of his announced his engagement to a non-jewish woman. She seemed like an archetype Southern woman; very refined, hospitable, and personable. The rabbi warned him that at some point, when there will be an argument, she’ll show her true colors…and כך היה. She got into a heated fight with him and eventually called him a kike. He got the message, left her and eventually became a baal teshuva.
Gadolha, does the impracticality of a belief in a given circumstance invalidate it? If something is true, then it is – whether or not you should focus on it, is a different story. It is true that my entire body is 99% empty space, because the space between particles of atoms is such. If I were to think about that all the time, I’d go nuts, but it doesn’t mean it’s not true.
kanoi, Where does rav henkin say that?
On the contrary, aside from what the seforim say on the matter, that halacha yeduah is just that – a halacha, a law as immutable as shabbos and kashrus….we see it בחוש. Before the Holocaust, we didn’t see every goy seething and wanting to kill jews, but when the gezerah was carried out, the inner hatred was awoken and all manner of gehinnom came out. Friendly neighbors turned jnto torturers. Close friends became informants. We should adopt the slogan “never again” to refer to this….never again should we fall into complacency, pretending that goyim don’t hate us. The bais halevi says that when Jews don’t make kiddush (separating ourselves) goyim make havdalah, by force.
Ujm, yea, i misspoke, I meant tachanun
Could be it works through ברירא
Just to clarify, rabbi shechter in the same shiur quotes a zohar (a source for which i don’t have) that says that all the sheep had the neshomos of klal yisroel, and the ones who were lost to lavan were the yidden who would go off the derech – it wasn’t just rebbes
I should have clarified; there are a lot of non chabad people who have stories of yeshuos, hashgocha protis, even mofsim in relation to the lubavitcher rebbe. What i was referring to is their reports of his interactions with other rabbonim.
I think you answered your own question. B”h such programs already exist, but there is a need for more of them
Farby, see the criteria stated above. The chazon ish writes in igros that one can discern who the gedolim are by who the majority of lomdei torah follow as well. Most lomdei torah have nothing to do with lubavitch, which occupies less than 10% of observant jewry.
TS, in brisker yeshivos this is the story that all the roshei yeshiva said over, including rav meir, rav berel, rav Avrohom yehoshua ybl”ch, rav tzvi kaplan, etc. You can also ask talmidim of rav berel such as rav elya ber wachtfofel. Briskers are known for being extremely medakdek in stories, to the letter in which they were originally said over
It’s not in chidushei hagri”z if that’s what you’re getting at.
Farby, i hooe you realize that lubavitcher rebbe stories (there are thousands) come only from chabad. Chasidish gedolim such as the poskim cited above don’t quote him in their teshuvos, let alone the litvishe poskim. Outside of chabad, MO revered him as a tzadik, as did sefardim who flock to kabalists, but few gedolim acknowledged him as anyone significant. Rav avigdor miller did, but in his later years stopped referring to him in mesholim of tzadikim and generally understood why the yeshiva world, led by rav shach, was opposed. Rav pam also originally said that rav shach is “talking to bnei eretz yisroel” but later was chozer.
It’s only laughable if one lives in isolation. Where i come from, the lubavitcher rebbe is not considered a gadol. Rabbi kook and rabbi yoshe ber Soloveitchik are held in higher learning esteem, yet are not accepted due to their divergence from mesorah.
I was holding off on it, but it needs to be said – Surprising as it may be to some, I’ve heard from several gedolei yisroel that exact expression, that he was not a gadol. when i was a teenager and unsure about a lot of things, i asked pointed questions to rabbonim I was close with, one of whom was a gadol beyisroel who said the exact words “he said a sharp vort here and there, but was not from the major leagues”, after saying that he made a moshiach driven campaign to leave behind a legacy in the absence of having children. Later on i learned that many gedolim have said similar things, with the brisker rov saying ,”this meshuganeh thinks he’s moshiach”, or the satmar rov calling him a “shoteh”.
Gedolei yisroel have judged one another before; this isn’t new. Rebbe Evyasar was doubted at first by other amoraim as to his gadol status (מאן לימא לך דרבי אביתר בר סמכא הוא), in gitin 6b. Be was obviously accepted, but there are many other examples where a rabbi is rejected by the composite of gedolim and lomdei torah. These include people like shlomo yehudah rappaport, shmuel Dovid luzzato, the author of me’or aynayim in the time of the maharal(not the chasidish sefer from the heiliger tchernobler), and many others.
There are criteria to be considered a gadol. Tzidkus, torah knowledge, mesorah…a key element is lack of negius. It seems from the behavior of the lubavitcher rebbe that it was in the last element that he was most missing. He was a genius who amassed a lot of knowledge, kept the mitzvos as far as we know, had a mesorah, but seems to have fell prey to the yatzer hora for kovod and gaavah. We see it in the personality cult, the pictures everywhere, the parades, the reformation of chabad into a movement with symbols (the rambam menorah), missionary “shluchim” , the promises of redemption… It points to what my rebbe said about him wanting to leave behind a legacy in the absence of children.
I don’t have any personal opinion on the matter, but i will say that the studies taken show that the vaccines don’t stop infection, especially with delta – they prevent hospitalization and death to the point of such cases being an extremely rare phenomenon
Cult mentality is hallmarked by a fear of anything outside and by castigating all outsiders as enemies or people in need of enlightenment
There are prominent names of rabbis that in the core of the yeshivos are known not to be gedolei yisroel, but kevodam bemkomam omedes… When i asked a certain gadol regarding another gadol from previous generations who refrained from saying halel on 5 iyyar, he told me that he wasn’t the same as the chazon ish or other top tier gedolim.. There is a method to the seemingly arbitrary categorizing
TS, my proof is both from the reluctance of the mainstream to distance itself absolutely, communally from the meshichisten, as well as from my experience talking with antis who never are able to bring themselves to say “no” when asked if they think the lubavitcher rebbe was the messiah. They will say “anyone CAN be” “what difference does it make if he is…if he is, will you be upset? We just want moshiach whoever he may be” or other attempts at misdirection.
The answer is “no”. He is not the Messiah, nor will he be, because he is no longer alive and that is the mesorah.
To clarify, i didn’t say that the antis believe he is alive. It is my understanding that they believe he is the messiah, actually passed away, but must return at some point to finish his work and complete the redemption he started at the self described “beis hamikdash” at 770.
They aren’t being taught to be disrespectful. Some mesivta rebbeim will let slip their feelings about lubavitch at a relaxed moment in school, and young people are quick to react and take things to the next level. It isn’t coming from the top down – chabad supremacy however, is institutional.
Regarding why it isn’t a two way street – it’s not because Litvishe focus on their own more. In a Litvish yeshiva, i don’t think you’ll find many pictures of any chasidish gedolim. But you will find many types of Litvishe – rav moshe was immensely different from the chazon ish, for instance. They also stress Hungarian gedolei yisroel like rav akiva eiger, the chasam sofer, etc..rav hirsch is mentioned too.
a litvish boy knows about different types of chasidim, and knows about their poskim. They learn avnei nezer, sefas emes on kodshim, eglei tal, and others. You will definitely hear Litvishe rosh yeshivos quote rav tzadok, the shem mishmuel, tanya, kozhnitzer maggid, and others. Not a lot, but you’ll hear it.
For chabad to ignore other chasidim and litvishe would be like a litvishe yeshiva to only talk about rav moshe feinstein all day and no one else, not the chofetz chaim either – just rav moshe.
Chabad boys don’t know who rav vosner, rav menasheh klein, rav chatzkel roth, or tons of other chasidishe gedolei torah vehoraah. They’re being sequestered and cut off from the klal, and it’s sad. It’s also supremacist.
Also, another reason for the rest of klal yisroel ignoring the lubavitcher rebbe was because many gedolim did not hold of him as a legitimate gadol. They ignore rabbi kook as well, and mostly ignore rabbi yoshe ber Soloveitchik for similar reasons. It isn’t common that gedolim argue to the point where one side holds that the other is illegitimate. Rav moshe and the satmar rov had intense disagreements, but they had a lot of mutual respect as well.
The yeshivos wish to exclude rabbinic figures that are themselves controversial.