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Motcha, while achav was an oved avoda zara, it doesn’t say that his army had people who were involved in ervas davar – that’s what the pasuk says will cause Hashem to turn away r”l.
The Israeli army, however, does and is proud of it. The army itself was designed to be an indoctrination tool and place of iniquity – in the same book, rabbi shapiro cites manu sources attesting to the activities of the average IDF soldier. Rav avigdor miller cites in “awake my glory” abortion statistics, that most women are members of the army at the time of their infanticide.
Therefore, any success they have is from the sitra achra, since Hashem says he turns away from such an army. The brisker rov, alternatively, said that the yidden who daven and are frum are protecting the rest…in effect, we are safe in eretz yisroel in spite of the army, bzchus the yirayim ve’shlaymim.
Pick a shitah; both are daas torah.
Smerel, rabbi yaakov shapiro’s “the empty wagon” devoted an entire chapter to this issue – he has all the quotes there, including the two i mentioned, plus much more. Israel had an advantage in its advanced technology, weaponry, training and other factors. The surrounding arab armies were militarily inferior to Israel’s in almost every aspect.
Who am I to say who Hashem is with? Well, Hashem said so himself regarding an inmoral army “ולא יראה בך ערות דבר ושב מאחריך” – if there is an immoral matter in the ranks of a Jewish army, Hashem himself says He will turn away from us.
“if the 6 day war was a miracle, then Johnson was a navi” – the Divrei yoel z”l.
I’m not a satmar chossid, but I’m not going to refrain from quoting the emes. The CIA chief at the time said that Israel would win in “probably 6 or 7 days”.
It’s nice that he believes in God. He should apply that supposed faith and campaign for a kosher army. “Hashem should be with you” – is Hashem “with* those who eat treif, are mechalel shabbos, and who think that being Jewish is being a zionist? Does Hashem support the defilement of har habayis that was the result of the war? Hashem is behind everything in the world, including famine, pandemics, holocausts – and the victory of the wicked.
Gadolha, I respect your ability to see the value in others’ ideas despite disagreeing with them
Novardok in flatbush
Rabbi Zucker’s yeshiva, ohr yisroel
Rabbi asher weiss, yeshiva in monsey
Rabbi sheinerman(not sure if he’s still around)
Ruach hatorahEphraim, my heart goes out to you. You’re a sensitive man who’s looking for acceptance in a world that shies away from open and honest discussions of mental health. I respect you and commend tou for that, and for still keeping the mitzvos despite feeling out of place in the frum community. Chazal ve’amatz!
I would caution against associating with a group – any group – solely on the basis of their rumored level of acceptance of people with ASD. I’d suggest rather, a yeshiva or particular shul that is such, and that is on the same level of your own observance (or oerhaps a step above – we all want to grow). Rabbi Moshe Wise (not to be confused with rabbi Moshe meir weiss) has a beis nedrash in marine park where there are several types of young frum men, some of whom are on the spectrum; maybe you can look into learning there at night?
If I said chaim Berlin is good for all jews, you’d think I’m myopic
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Bouncing; being an ohr legoyim means that we shine bright in our communities and are a beacon of light, morality and awareness of Hashem to the rest of the world. The reform movement claimed that this pasuk and other dictums in navi and chazal were exhortations to modern day social justice. They were wrong then and their ideas are wrong now.
Would you consider it egocentric to provide for your family first before helping others?
Following the Torah makes one as non selfish as possible; it removes the “anochius” the self, the mechitzah that separates us from Hashem. Those mitzvos are almost entirely centered on fellow jews.
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Rav Hirsch famously wrote about “progress allied to religion”, that social justice is indeed a worthy cause when aimed at religious goals. He had to respond to the reform “religion allied to progress” movement, but before him and after him, has there ever been such a sentiment? Since there isn’t, it makes sense that this was a kiruv measure, much like the kiruv rabbis who have to bend over backwards with college kids to avoid saying that the Torah lechatchila advocates slavery and other issues. It might behoove you to do the same.
Charlie, so see no evil hear no evil?.
I’m sure a tourist in Nazi Germany would have said …i don’t see any concentration camps hereBouncing, ever hear of shomer havtachaso, vehi sheamda? Hashem is there fo save us and he alone. By the churban, klal yisroel looked to all the nations…mitzrayim nosnu yad, yishmoel gave us salty food to make us die of thirst… You’re on a very dangerous path. We never rely on goyim to save us.
Ejmr, are you suggesting mass giyur? We never do that. It’s the worst thing in the world for a goy if he converts and due to lack of conviction fails to keep mitzvos; you’re creating sinners. That’s if there was some sort of kabalas hamitzvos; if there isn’t, then they’re not Jews to begin with.
Yserbius, you’re right about the bike riding, but incorrect about electricity. There were sefardi poskim who, based on the aruch hashulchan, were maikil with electricity on yom tov, because they held it was aish may’aish. Once it was shown by rav shlomo zalman (in his teens!) that the aruch hashulchan’s understanding of electricity was in error, that psak automatically falls aside. Some later sefardi poskim still maintained this shitoh despite its metzius-based refutation, but rav ovadiah influenced the sefardi world to completely abandon it.
Again, this was specifically yom tov and not shabbos.
It’s nothing to do with rabbi kook or zionism, or the alleged centrality of lashon kodesh – there’s a level of mitzvah in learning lashon kodesh, to this even the vayoel moshe agrees, so something that makes you learn it is good as long as it’s not inappropriate material
Taking up social justice issued did WONDERS for us in Germany
We’re in galus. We need to know our place and not be policemen of the world or mouth off about every injustice. Sometimes we need to when it’s an issue of kovod shomayim like toeva marriage, but that’s different.
Reb E said it a lot better than me
Wolf; you made a kiddush, which is for Hashem. You made a siyum (mazel tov!) on Hashem’s Torah.
You didn’t survive an ordeal and not mention the One who saved you. There’s a big difference.
Ivrit isn’t lashon kodesh; but yes, according to many poskim it’s at least a hecsher mitzvah to know lashon kodesh, so even sichas chulin or stam books that normally don’t contain material that is sufficient to take them out of the category of M”L are allowed because you’re doing some sort of mitzvah with it.
I’m pretty sure that the increased anonymity of mask mandates is related to the dramatic rise of crime and political unrest
There’s also a mitzvah to know lashon kodesh, so it’s productive even if it would have been considered M”L if in a different language
Shu”a says mesholim umelitzim, stam stories; nothing inappropriate. The proof is that the next words are if there are divrei cheshek, then it’s assur for another reason in addition to moshav leitzim, and shu’a gives the example of some romance book called sefer emanuel(which I’m sure was relatively tame by 21st century standards).
The rema doesn’t allow “war stories”, he mentions specifically Josephus because it’s Jewish history, which is valuable since it teaches emunah.
AAQ, shu”a does NOT differentiate between casual moshav leitzim and consistent, nor do the nosei keilim; it’s an issur like any other. Gambling is a different issue, because with aidus we need trustworthy people. If someone casually gambles it doesn’t take away from his credibility, either because he is not always owing people money and will take bribes or the pshat you quoted as not being part of productive society.
Moshav leitzim is the very act of assembling for something other than legitimate tzrochim or avodas Hashem. It’s a chilul Hashem, because these people could be serving Hashem and instead they’re wasting their time openly.
It also applies privately to secular novels (shocker) as stated explicitly in shu”a, that they are assur not only on shabbos but during the week as well, if they have no spiritual merit.
Reb E, yep, 307:17 – i got the seif mixes up with the siman
Reb E, a sotah did an aveirah that is not in doubt. She has, to some degree, lost her chezkas kashrus because of yichud. That’s because the halacha follows rebbe Yehoshuah who holds in sotah 2a that we need 2 aidim for the warning and for the yichud. The tanna that shares your name, rebbe Eliezer, holds that one aid is enough for yichud (or even the husband himself seeing it) – maybe you’re shayach to his shoresh neshoma so your mind is going leshitaso, but lehalacha we need to establish some guilt of the sotah before trying her with the water.
In the case of an accused abuser, often there’s absolutely no raglayim ledavar, suspicious behavior, multiple accusations, or other indication… I have no idea how common it is for kids to make up stories, but i will say that as a rebbe I’ve heard kids half-threaten to accuse teachers including myself of abuse in order to het what they want or for revenge for a perceived injustice. I know lf at least 2 confirmed cases of this happening elsewhere.
Yep, moshav leitzim is a very wholesome environment
It’s the halachik definition thereof, see shu”a OC 317 and elsewhere regarding circuses and theaters
Chulent, like its counterparts kugel and gefilte fish, are shabbos foods with a mesorah and are indeed special. Gefilte fish is special because it avoids borer, for instance
I figured it was something along those lines; it’s not like rav chaim stein, rav gifter, rav elya meir, or rav chaim Mordechai katz held that electricity was mutar. The way you worded it was implying that “telz” held somehow that it was mutar.
How we deal with individual jews is a different story.
Where did you hear of a time when any yeshiva or community used electricity on shabbos?
Ujm, according to the 2013 pew study on American jewry, 10- 19% of reform Jews (the variation is due to a difference between those who identify with judaism as their religion vs their culture) say that their mother is not Jewish.
Conversions aren’t that common, with the JTA claiming that the reform HUC has logged 1000 participants in conversion classes in the year 2013 – there are 8 million jews in America, so this is a tiny percentage. Conservative conversion is even less common.
When we eliminate the “did the mother convert” element, (which obviously needs to be inspected before recognizing someone as Jewish), we’re left with 80% of reform jews who are most likely halachikally Jewish. If we say that of those 80%, the mothers themselves were the product of perhaps a jewish father and non jewish mother, we’d fall back on intermarriage statistics from 30ish years ago(a generation) which was only 15% across the board, higher among reform but not by much, according to the north American jewish data bank (1982-87).
Worst case scenario would be that 65% of reform jews are halachikally Jewish.
He was committed, and was eventually recruited by reb Binyomin willhelm to lead mesivta torah vodaas – i wouldn’t call it a “crazy” life. I agree his situation was very unique.
Why have your mind changed when you’re 100% correct?
Watching shkotzim injure each other or exert themselves to the brink for the glory of getting a ball to end up in a specific place is not very intelligent
Rav shraga feivel didn’t have a “crazy” life story. He was an oved Hashem in every sense of the word. People who moved his kevurah testified that he had not decomposed after several decades.
Syag…so claiming that most reform and conservative jews are not newish and therefore we don’t really care what they do/say (which is the upshot of besalel’s post) is calm, respectful and not mincing words? I don’t understand you very well. If you want people to write dispassionate, academic posts about the difference between orthodoxy and its deviants…rachmana liba bai. If you want criticism to be with understanding and sensitivity – ell i agree that’s what works but there’s a time and place for “hakeh es shinov” too, and i think an anonymous online forum is a good place for it.
The claim is also untrue. Many jews in the reform and conservative movement are not halachikally Jewish, but the majority are. It will be another few decades before that changes. That’s especially true in conservative circles, where there are established JTS/solomon shechter families that are, lehavdil, similar to “chaim Berlin families”. For many years the aforementioned groups have expressed animosity towards Orthodoxy, claiming that because we regard their beliefs as non-jewish, that we also do not consider them jews either. Now they may not have the din of a yisroel regarding bishul, etc…but they are Jewish and it discourages newcomers to portray anything to the contrary.
Also, it should bother us if goyim masquerade as jews either way, because it’s a massive chilul Hashem.
Also, reform clergy should really not be referred to as rabbi; that term has a definition, just as a doctor.
BTL is the only truly “yeshivishe” degree
Syag, you and i are talking about very different situations.
Avram, i wasn’t clear – i didn’t mean blood and guts stam azoi, i meant they can talk about sugyos like zerikah, shechita, simanim, and tons more
Bored; men talk about blood and guts while eating supper in yeshivos, and plenty of other stuff that would shock you – gemara snd halacha discussions don’t phase people who are learning. I understand that it’s something that can make you feel uncomfortable, but in the context of everything else lomdei torah talk about, it isn’t necessarily creepy.
I do appreciate syag calling me and others out for potentially hurtful rhetoric
Syag, I didn’t realize OP was a kid – my tone was harsh because I thought it was yet another parent sacrificing a child on the altar of education, success and haskalah.
I teach children of these backgrounds and I’m nothing but patient and understanding; I try to slip in an idea here and there to stimulate independent thought, but I am respectful of whoever I encounter in my work, even an unmarried couple with children who I spent hours consulting to get them to keep their children in a Yeshiva.
Online I like to vent frustration at times; I don’t mean to target anyone particularly
AAQ, i agree 100% that college courses in and of themselves aren’t bad for most people. Rav belsky would tell some talmidim they should go (only to kosher programs), others that they can go, and others that they shouldn’t, depending on a host of variables . He also would say beshem rav yaakov kaminetzky that a younger beis medrash bochur shouldn’t have his eyes on future secular education, but should imagine that his beis medrash years will be the way life will be forever. It’s a mistake to be in high school and be jumping at the future of college; everyone should be focusing on learning at this age, regardless of whether or not their future will be in klei kodesh. When an older bochur told rav pam that he wanted to be a rebbe, he said “you? A rebbe? Go be an accountant”, and this was from a gadol who made impassioned appeals to bnei yeshivos to go into chinuch.
It gets problematic only when the environment is poisonous as it has been progressively degenerate for decades, or when a capable young man decides that he simply doesn’t want to stay in learning despite his abilities.
I wish i had the time tonight to respond to everyone, but I’ll just answer the last point AAQ made – rav moshe writes clearly “aside from the spiritual dangers” meaning he’s making it clear that the issue isn’t just ruchnius damage (although nowadays he’s definitely agree that a secular college is a death sentence for one’s spiritual well being)…the issue is gezeilas kishronosav, stealing the best years of a young man’s life when he’s able to grow in Torah and throwing it away in order to have a good job.
Rav moshe also intended this particular point for bnei yeshiva and not for the entire klal, to be fair. But to flip what you’re saying….in our time the issue isn’t limited to the stifling of bnei aliyah, it’s the toxic Atmosphere of any secular college which inundates students with poison…ask yourselves, granted theres a desire not to be secluded, but at what point would you seclude yourselves? What if there were unclothed people everywhere around you in a college? What if they forced you to bow to an idol upon entering?
The things they teach and the people you’ll be around are literally just as bad
Copying and pasting poorly translated mishnayos from sefaria is not going to win an argument; nor is quoting one controversial rabbinic figure
Ujm – i remember reading that when i was 17 on frumteens; it’s an exact quote.
It should be noted that not all gedolim agreed to that. Rav yaakov kaminetzky held that a high school diploma was hishtadlus, as did my rebbe rav belsky. Rav belsky also, however, supported many outstanding bochurim who sincerely wanted to learn the entire day and drop out of English in HS, to the anger of many parents who failed to appreciate their sons’ love of learning…
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That’s how MOST chassidim hold**
“Adequate” is a relative term. If the goal of a Yeshiva education is to best prepare children to enter higher education, then only left wing MO Co ed schools offer “adequate” time for secular studies, of course at the detriment of kodesh, where the average graduate doesn’t know which side of a daf gemara is Rashi and which is tosfos.
Kodem kol: it is an undisputed halacha that secular studies bekevius as a study regimen is assur. That is, the pursuit of secular wisdom on a set schedule is unequivocally forbidden by halacha. That is stated in shu”a YD 246. It is an affront to kovod hatorah and it is also bittul Torah. The rishonim who were knowledgeable in these areas learned it be’akrai, here and there, or in the bathroom, as many achronim write.
If so, how can a yeshiva facilitate secular studies as a seder?
The answer is that it’s not leshem limud, for the sake of learning, but rather it is analogous to hiring a person to teach your son a trade – it’s actually a mitzvah!
For some, adequate means enough to make it in business and worldly endeavors, which can be mon-thurs for an hour a day of math and English, stopping at bar mitzvah, with some places only providing English one or two days a week for an hour. That’s how lost chasidim hold
For others it’s determined that a regents diploma is necessary as hishtadlus; this is the position of most non-lakewood litvishe mosdos.
In Lakewood they have English until high school, everyday for a few hours.
So there are 3 mainstream methods, all approved of by gedolei torah and all designed with the intention of limudei chol being a tool necessary on one level or another, but a tool to make parnosa and get along in the world around us. Ish al machanyhu ve’ish al diglo, all of these mahalchim are based beharerei kodesh.
Then there are the maskilim. Those who believe in secular education as a value in it’s own sense. They believe that there is something of value besides what Hashem has given us. Something that must be cultured and grown. Something that is maaviro al daas kono.
מניחים חיי עולם ועוסקים בחיי שעה. Woe is to the ears that behold such words; that greater emphasis should be placed on secular studies or that secular studies have a value in an of themselves to begin with. Chazal say on someone who is able to learn but doesn’t, that he is davar Hashem bazah – he has belittled the word of Hashem. This is the case for any capable young man who abandons the yeshiva for enlightenment elsewhere, casting aside the yoke of heaven for his own enjoyment and desires.
This is but one of the פרי חטאת of modern orthodoxy.
How about a long walk through prospect park?
That piece in the tiferes yisroel made a large segment of klal yisroel avoid his seforim. Why pick on a daas yochid when it comes to sensitive issues? If there’s a shaalah on shabbos, do we look high and low for a lone shitah, or do we go with the mainstream path? It is mind boggling that when it comes to hashkofa, every issue’s dayos yechidim become completely acceptable.
Chazal can say that about each other, but they are also able to argue with one another – zecharya frankel tried to attribute shitos to middos, and was rightfully put in cherem for that. Rav hirsch famously said about people like him that we must learn Torah from its own perspective, not with any other considerations.
AAQ, not necessarily disparagement, just la’afukei his misbegotten title of rabbi. He has earned a doctorate, but he is not a legitimate rabbi. I don’t know where he got his degree from, nor does it really matter.
When chazal have a machlokes, neither side is “skeptic” or “believer” – it’s a machlokes in how to darshen pesukim and how sevara works. To say that chazal were biased by their middos and that their opinions can be attributed to “skepticism” or “mysticism” would be entering into zecharya frankel territory
Saying that slifkin is an apikores isn’t lashon hora when the guy js practically proud of how far he can push the envelope and still, in his mind, not be considered an apikores. He thinks in his delusional perspective that he’s an heir to the rambam and “rationalist” rishonim. Of course he never bothers to explain what gives him the right to side with one supposed group of rishonim over another, especially after hisgalus hakabalah.
The gedolei yisroel said that he wrote kefirah; is there room to be dan him separately from his books? It doesn’t really concern me, because i don’t think much about him as a person, but rather the damage he has wrought with his books that are full of heresy.
He started out as hashkofically off, just saying that chazal made a mistake or two about science. That’s assur to say because we don’t pasken like rabbeinu avrohom ben horambam, but the road he went on afterwards was far, far worse; it’s a road travelled only by karaites and loopy figures in the middle ages who aside from academics, almost no one’s ever heard of.
He had a personal faith crisis because of his knowledge of zoology not meshing with chazal. He then expressed these issues for the masses to read. The gedolim called him out on it and he went more off, as the mishnah says not to debate with a jewish apikores, because all he’ll do is פקר טפי.
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Yehudis – if you want to know what is considered inappropriate, you can ask yourself some simple questions:
Does this post hint at or say that the torah we received from chazal is erroneous, human/male/culture biased, or otherwise not unequivocally dvar Hashem?
Does this post disparage sentiments or values that are explicitly stated in chaz, rishonim or achronim?
Does this post attack another poster in a way that’s not constructive?
Does this post have inflammatory, yet true ideas which might result in chilul Hashem? (I’ve fallen into this one before)
Is this post a rant about why you can’t have your way in judaism?
Believe me, the mods allow A LOT of stuff that most gedolei yisroel would say is forbidden to say/write. If they’re not letting something through, I can be sure that it’s chazer treif.
What is biologically difficult about having one horn?.
And the livyasan, salamandra, man/tree, etc..are “biologically possible”? Or are they all fables, chazal just blindly accepted what goyin said cv”s… there are only two roads in this issue, of unquestionably believing in chazal as representative of Torah misinai, or not…chas veshalom, the Torah that chazal gave us is incorrect – which road do you think leads to Hashem? Or do they allegorize olam haba too? To Hashem we’re all “mesholim”…they have no humility.
Biological possibility is defined as possible according to the biology that we see in front of us. Hashem made animals that we see, and there are other creations that work differently…if doesn’t take much emunah even to accept that.
Only if one begins with the premise that “life developed” is such a suggestion illogical, because development would seemt to be uniform.