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Halevi, it’s been discussed here before. It’s the highest madrega rhat an aino yehudi can hope for, as they keep mitzvos. It’s also a klalah representing ratzon Hashem for certain people who are uncontrollable and violent otherwise.
The “in your face” flag waving is far more incendiary, obviously, but arabs do not really know the difference between a 10th generation yerushalmi who couldn’t care less if the arabs ran eretz yisroel, and a zionist who believes that ben gurion is the Messiah.
Ujm, walking around arabs with yarnulkes on can incite violence too.. But only because the Zionists convinced them that they represent all jews, so a recognizable Jew is automatically a zionist, and thus their enemy.
Besalel – “yisroel is a sheep among 70 wolves”
A smart sheep bows to the wolves, and doesn’t die for pride.
We died a lot less when we behaved that way. Millions less.
Huju – truly immoral; very stupid to quote halacha sources regarding a question of monetary law. How sad that issues of morality are…decided by… Hashem… disgusting, truly so.
Yes this was a troll thread, but it was also an interesting question. The point of the trolling is to trigger copy/paste goyishe responses like yours.
I guess when Avrohom owned (literally, owned) Eliezer, it was stupid, immoral, and disgusting. No?
Turns out a simple google search reveals that slaveowners received compensation for their loss of property after all..around 300 for each (which was a lot back then, obviously)
It could also be argued that the slaves lost all resale value once slavery was ended, since they couldn’t be sold anymore. The government has no chiyuv to allow the sale of a given item. The government then, was only mafsid them the value of the work they would have performed for the master, which is a grama….lechora.
There’s a machlokes if goyim can have a kinyan in other goyim as avadim; the government would have a “kim li” on those shitos, to retain their status as muchzak. You can’t be motzi mamon from them to the descendants of slave owners. Also, the slave owners didn’t expect reasonably to be reimbursed, so they were mochel even on the tzad that they’re entitled to it.
As was pointed out, melech poretz geder applies here – the government can take what it wants, when it wants, and doesn’t even have to reimburse you (according to manu shitos)
The government can and does make the sale of given products illegal; certain firearms, drugs, bombs, etc..zachin vos zennen a sach besser vi yenom…
I’m a litvak, I’ve learned about keser a little.. No need for a bochur to know how sefiros are counted
AAQ, it’s not outside my kevutzah; chabad are the only Jews who think there’s value in getting random frei people to put tefilin on once, and that this brings the geulah.
We’re not talking about chelek eloka mimaal – that’s a concept that’s discussed everywhere in any machshava sefer that’s after kabalas ha’ari.
Nice try. A piece of godliness placed in a Jewis not the same as saying that specifically a rebbe is the essence of god. Actually, the tanya says there משיח’ שהם בחי’ עקביים ממש לגבי המוח והראש וכן בכל דור ודור יש ראשי אלפי ישראל שנשמותיהם הם בחי’ ראש ומוח לגבי נשמות (that may not have pasted well), that EVERY jew has the chelek eloka, from the avos down to the amhaaratzim; he explains how every part of klal yisroel is compared to higher and lower parts of the body.
The exact opposite of the lubavitcher rebbe’s claim that a tzadik has a special godliness when compared to someone else.
Neither says that you can daven at the graves of a tzadik because a tzadik is the essence of god wrapped in a body.
It says kgon daniel, which means it will be someone analogous to him. That gemara is also not brought in ANY of the rishonim’s descriptions of moshiach, including the ramban maamar al hageulah
Nom – no, please enlighten us where in any hebrew book, even from someone off like the meor aynayim, is there a statement that a tzadik is the essence of god wrapped in a body.
It’s not in tanya. It’s not in the nefesh hachaim.
You can clearly find it in the notes from the council of nicea.
Ts, when referencing rav Shraga feivel i was not speaking to you, but rather to nomesorah’s claim that the lubavitcher rebbe swooped in to save everyone in the yeshiva world.
Torah vodaas had 2 roshei yeshiva who were chabad affiliated; rav Quinn, and rav kahaneh. Rav Quinn distanced himself from the last lubavitcher rebbe when he took over. He kept chabad minhagim, but did not approve of him.
Rav pam originally said that rav shach’s vocal opposition was for bnei eretz yisroel and that we shouldn’t mix in. Rav pam was extremely against machlokes, as is known. Towards the end of his life, when deviances became more known, he distanced himself too.
Re, going to farbrengins; he drew people from all sorts of backgrounds, including those of which who were opposed to him. Lots of people were inspired by him and he didn’t go around saying the kinds of things that are being discussed here – had he done so, he not only would not have attracted outsiders, but would have lost most of his constituents as well.
There were and are many geniuses who are adept at learning and have photographic memories; they’re not all gedolei torah.
Source = chabad.org
I appreciate your tone – I don’t mean to be disrespectful or hostile either. I am sharing my experiences and knowledge of what gedolim said and what i am aware of to be popular notions in chabad, both based on the lubavitcher rebbe’s leadership and otherwise.
If you want to know what talmidim of rav aharon say about the lubavitcher rebbe… Lakewood is probably the most anti -chabad community in the northeast.
Ts – BTs have had “aha” watershed moments from all sorts of things. I know a guy who was inspired by a pastor, another guy who was drawn in by a reform rabbi with hair down to his navel.
I’m sure many, many people had a moment with the tefilin. But the majority, overwhelming majority, take a selfie and never think about it again
And they don’t get credit or olam haba for it either, because they have no knowledge of the mitzvah, metzaveh, or even what the tefilin are. Not to mention half of the time it’s in full view of immodestly dressed women.
Nomesorah; now I’m convinced you are or were chabad. Only in chabad do they teach these fairy tales about how the lubavitcher rebbe saved the entire world. What did he do to keep chaim berlin lr other yeshivos open?
Rav shraga feivel mendelowitz saved a lot of yeshivos, including ner yisroel, but i bet you’ve never even heard of him. Rav aharon was opposed to the lubavitcher rebbe. My rebbe rav belsky said he was not a gadol in learning. I have no idea where these fables originated.
Many people went to him. Some satmar chasidim would “double dip”, even though the satmar rov called him a “meshuganeh”.
Many people in yeshivos went to JTS too. Really doesn’t mean anything.
Different cheshbonos, but you’re not allowed to expose tefilin to ervah; that’s a halacha
Real; some tips:
Don’t try to prove their obsession (s) wrong
Don’t say ‘calm down’
Don’t say ‘what, are you worried about crossing the street too?”If you’re able to be a listening ear, go for it. If you’re not, then politely say that you wish you knew what to say and how to help, but that you don’t know, but that you respect them and don’t think any less of them because of their condition
Yep…in full view of pritzus, put on the heads and arms of people who don’t know or believe in the mitzvah to begin with
Ujm, by chasidim all of them wear beketishes. An example by them would be wearing peltz
Lashenhora, we don’t say safek deoraysoh lechumra all over – we have a drashah by mamzer that safek mamzer is mutar. Safek arlah bechhtz laaeretz is another example.
Ujm – Kidushin 73, ודאי ממזר הוא דלא יבוא, הא ספק –
יבואLubavitch always has had beautiful nigunim.
Ta, there’s zero reason to assume that there are aliens – no much more reason than to assume that there’s a pink banana shaped flying monkey whk can breathe fire and fly faster than the speed pf sound.
…. but what if there is? It can be said about any made up nonsense.
Revealing what then? If not Hashem’s will, why is it consequential? That He exists? Avrohom learned that without revelation.
Ujm, it’s mechzi k’yuhara to wear the clothing of a rosh yeshiva. It’s like the glima that the sefardi rabbonim wear.
Safek mamzer is mutar either way
Because revelation means the revelation of Hashem’s will, which is in the Torah (for goyim too). Since there can’t be another Torah, there won’t be another revelation elsewhere.
זאת התורה לא תהי מוחלפת ולא יהיה תורה אחרת
I never said that teimonim aren’t “reliable” or “valid”, i explained in that thread that i used a poor choice of words, and that was never my intent.
My criticism is not based on “how my community does things”
No group of jews ever believed that putting boxes on clueless frei people with the status of goyim or captured babies brings the geulah. Sefardim, chasidim, and litvaks, stress learning, chessed, avoiding lashon hora, and the like, as ways of bringing the geulah. They also never said “do a mirzvah and bring moshiach”
We do mitzvos for Hashem, not to bring the geulah. His whole ideology is self-created.
You’re only buttressing the theory that you’re lubavitch, wherein anyone who’s not lubavitch is “other”.
Chabad uses the “you don’t understand” with satmar, and other chasidim who very much do understand their language, including litvaks like me with a background in chasidus.
There’s no mention in the tanya of a rebbe being the essence of god (atzmus elokus is a term in chasidus for Hashem himself, all over) wrapped in a body, that he is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and fit to be prayed to.
If there is kindly show us.
What they’ll use as “sources” are the lubavitcher rebbe’s own writings.
It’s like debating with a Christian who tries to prove himself right hsing the new testament.
Revelation would contradict the ikkar of there being only one Torah
By “wink wink”, let me explain.
Mother: moishe! Don’t ever play in the mud again; you’re not the one who has to do the laundry!
Father: yes moishe, you’re too old to have mud fights.
Father when mother leaves the room: “nu moshe, who won?”
Syag, read it carefully. They’re not disavowing and repudiating the opinions. “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion” wouldn’t be said if the issue were any other psak.
When the gedolim assered the new york board of rabbis, they didn’t write on the kol koreh “but we do respect everyone’s right to an opinion.” That’s just not how rabbonim speak when forbidding things or making clarion calls – this was not clarion. It was purposefully vague, using some strong language but stopping short of just saying. The. Words. Rebbe. Is. Not. Moshaich. It’s not very hard to do.
Ts, uht azoi! You’re finally admitting that there’s some validity, in your mind, to the notion that the lubavitcher rebbe was moshiach.
Personally i think rav shach spread Torah more qualitatively than the lubavitcher rebbe. He preserved pre war torah. He increased the amount of torah learning to levels unseen since bayis sheni. Learning torah brings the geulah
The lubavitcher rebbe spread some torah to frei people, the overwhelming majority of whom stayed frei or weren’t reached by shluchim. Putting leather boxes on clueless people with the halachik status of goyim or captured babies does little to bring the geulah, I’m sorry.I do thank you for finally recognizing that messianic ideology is present even in the non-meshichist or supposed anti-meshichist group.
Many tzadikim were pure hearted, kind, and dedicated their lives to klal yisroel. The chofetz chaim, for instance. If someone told rav elchonon that the chofetz chaim was moshiach (ok, bad example, he’s a kohen) he would say “no”, because he was no longer alive. Not maybe, not possibly; no. Flat out, simple no.
This is the case for every influential tzadik who was just as compassionate and kind as the lubavitcher rebbe and moreso.
Also, there’s still zero reason to assume that there are aliens, you can’t say that heliocentric models somehow shoild make us ababdon all reason and just blindly follow the scientists.
Marx, the difference is that being in the center would be sumbolic, withiut direct philosophical implications. Intelligent life without torah and purpose would be a direct contradiction, not nust from the סברא חיצונה as you describe.
Aseh – in the recycling thread i wrote a lengthy explanation of why a frum jew should not believe in environmentalism.
The preoccupation with identifying the Rebbe (zatza”l) as Moshiach is clearly contrary to the Rebbe’s wishes.
let it be known that the views expressed in these notices are in no way a reflection of the movement’s position. While we do not intend to preclude expressions of individual opinion,
This is diplomacy. Not a disavowal and a clear statement that the rebbe is NOT moshiach. It goes on about how it’s conjecture, how it’s not important, how the rebbe didn’t want it (which isn’t the point – the point is that it’s FALSE.. they’re still obsessing over what the lubavitcher rebbe wanted as opposed to what Hashem wants).
This statement reads like a “wink wink”. Like when one parent says no to a kid to show solidarity with the other parent, but the kid knows he’s getting what he wants from the first one.
If someone claimed that rav shach (whose name was menachem too!) Was moshiach, there wouldn’t be any tolerance of their individual opinions. It would be said that he was not moshiach, full stop, end of story.
They had to say something because the more exteme, open messianics would give chabad a bad name and hurt their kiruv, which “the rebbe wanted”, so his desires for kiruv are more importmant to them than whatever else he may have desired…the difference is in priority, not in ideology.
All of that being said, recycling isn’t itself per force a product of that heresy. One can favor it because we value the things that Hashem has given us, and just as our bubbehs and zaydos would say “a shud yiddishe gelt”, and get as much use out of the scant resources they had…out of not wanting to be wasteful in respect and in gratitude for what Hashem gives us, i can see an ehrlich person in favor of recycling. But joining recycling enthusiasts or publicly advocating it would lend support to the deniers of hashgocha, including “frum” ones who buy into the media(even the “alternative”media personalities with fabric on their head)
I should distinguish between direct causes of localized harm, such as dumping oil into a reservoir, ruining a fishing area, etc…and indirect, theoretical causes on a global scale, such as emissions, factories, cutting down trees, etc..
I think any jew who has an inclination towards environmentalism should consider the following:
Rav hirsch writes that it’s not possible for a species to be extinct; this is based on a lot of sources. (Manu argue with this). Rav Hirsch also writes that אותו ואת בנו, the mitzvah of not shechting a father animal and its son on the same day, is because it looks like extermination.
How does this fit? If we are incapable of extermination, why would we be cautioned against this?
The answer is that Hashem runs the world and nothing we do will affect it physically. We can have as many kids as we are able to, and there will never be a shortage of food or space. We can bathe as much as we want, drive whatever car we want, and fly in as many airplanes as we want, and the world will be just as functional and physically healthy as ever.
Mitzidainu, if we engage in behaviors which look like extermination or destruction of the world (insert italics) to our senses, or in the cases of the torah (as above), then we are guilty lf that aveirah, but as seen by our inability to actually cause extermination, this mitzvah is for our own middos. Similar to having hakaras hatov to inanimate objects, i.e. Moshe not hitting the dirt or the water – it will affect HIM, not the object.
What does affect the world? Our aveiros. The more aveiros the world (and especially klal yisroel) does, Hashem’s brochos are stifled. That our material succcess depends on our fulfillment of the Torah is axiomatic in tanach and chazal – it’s one of the most discuss topics in neviim. Devorim 28, for instance. Ki savo. “Al azvu es Hashem”, “tachas asher lo avadta”, the list goes on and on.
Environmentalism that is taken to mean that we are stewards of ths physical health of the world, and that it is out carbon footprint as opposed to our aveiros that harm the world, are included in the rambams famous piece that says that when bad things happen, and we attribute them to mikroh, to chance…it is not only heresy, but it is cruelty, because in doing so the denier of hashgocha causes others not to repent and continues the cycle of sin and punishment.
Environmentalism from a torah perspective is therefore repugnant, a denial of Hashem’s running the world, a scapegoat for introspection and teshuva should there actually be natural catastrophe, and of course…an import from the goyishe world without a shred of source in Torah.
Haven’t addressed 2 crucial points: there’s only one Torah, and there’s no reason to assume that there are aliens from a torah perspective.
I don’t do external philosophy. I’m familiar with the geonim and rishonim.
Yes, the heliocentric model disrupted the notion that humanity was the purpose of creation…for people who were simplistic and thought that every physical part of creation must be in sync with philosophical concepts.
There are two options.
1. We’re not really that important, the universe was not really created for people to bestow godliness and to be maitiv lezulaso, and we are merely a spec of dust in an unfathomably large universe.
2. Not every physical element of creation matches its philosophical counterpart. Treif food doesn’t land you in the hospital. Muktzeh items don’t scream “shabbls hayom” when moved on shabbos, and many other inconsistencies that are part of the world being a dark place where Hashem is hidden.
Which one have you chosen, and were you even aware of it?
You’re agreeing that there must have been a revelation for there to have been intelligent life. I already addressed this in my supposedly “pretzel” theology, if you were following. There’s only one Torah; “lo sehay torah acheres ma’es haboreh”, there will be no other Torah from the creator. The Torah contains the 7 mitzvos bnei noach, and the 613 for us. No other torah was or will be given.
You’ve yet to respond to my “mahayche taysoh” point. We have zero reason as Torah jews to have a hava amina that there’s intelligent life. We have just as much reason to accept the tooth fairy – if someone found a tooth fairy, fine, but until such time, there’s no reason to even reckon with such a concept. The reason why goyim consider it is because of evolution and materialistic notions.
Choosid – there are hundreds if not thousands of midrashim about ruach hakodesh and seeing into the future. It doesn’t mean he traveled, it means that Hashem showed it to him.
Let me clarify; if someone tells me that he thinks there are flying mushrooms on mars, and i say “i have zero reason to think so”, and he answers, “yes, but what if? What will you do if we find the flying mushrooms?”
From the Torah perspective, there’s no reason at all to think that there is intelligent life on other planets. Hashem can and does what He wants, but whenever someone says “well what will you do if and when we find them?” Alecha lehavi raya – it’s on them to bring a stitch of evidence, be it logic or scientific – and there’s none. The only argument that’s made is that if we’re here, then whatever happened to make us probably happened elsewhere, since it’s just an accidental occurrence after all.