Avi K

For seforim, there is an excellent sefer in English called “Torat Eretz Yisrael” by Rabbi David Samson. I also saw that “Kol HaTor” of Rabbi Hillel Shklover has been translated in English. In Hebrew there is “HaTekufa HaGedola” of Rav Menachem Kasher. There are also “Torat HaMedina” by Rav Goren and several books by Rav Aviner.

Sorry, we don’t generally allow outside links.

Gubbish, there are several more reasons (BTW, the one you cited was given by Rav Meir Simcha of Dvinsk, who was an ardent supporter of Zionism) why we are not choshesh to the thre oaths:

1. It is aggada not halacha and, in fact, does not appear in any of the major halachic codes.

2. The Goyim violated their part of the bargain – not to persecute us “too much” – on several occasions. Thus if there was a deal it is off.

3. The oaths were only for a limited period. Some say 1,000 years (if they started with the destruction of the Bayit Sheni that would be approximately the beginning of the Crusades – which were the first major violation by the Goyim). In nay case, the wondrous success of Zioinism shows that Hashem has released us from them and the time has come.

BTW, Health, do you know the origin of the name of this organization? The Sikrikin were Goyim who were given stolen Jewish land in Eretz Yisrael in lieu of a pension for their service in the Roman army. That says it all.

Health, you are so blinded by your hatred for the Medina that you defend terrorists.

HaKatan,

1. The Medina through its various organs, including the IDF, supports Tora instituions and learners. It even supports those who are not exactly learning full-time. If not for this they would have to (gasp) work for a living.

2. Many of that Jewish money came from Jews whp had been stripped of their Judaism by the temptations of the goldene medina and felt guilty about it.

3. Do you really think that the UN would support Tora? Anyway, the Jordanians occupied Yehuda veShomron and Yerushalayim in nay case and would still be in control. Don’t forget, the Arabs rejected the partition plan that included internationization. The Kotel would be inaccessible and Jews would not be allowed to set foot in the Old City.

4. See “Kol HaTor” of Rabbi Hillel Shklover that there are actually two mashiachs, Mashiach ben Yosef, whose job is kibbutz galuyot and building the material aspect of Eretz Yisrael (Rav Kook held that he is the Zionist movement in general, and Herzl in particular. See “Hesped B’Yerushalim in “Maamarei HaRaya”), and Mashiach ben David, whose job is building the spiritual aspect culminating in the Bet HaMikdash.He aslso says that according to the Gra in the time of ikveta d’Mashicha the Chet HaMeraglim will infect many in the Tora world.

5. See Yerushalmi Berachot 1:1 that the Geula comes slowly in stages. See also Rabbi Elazar Azkari’s commentary, Perush Baal Sefer Charedim, that “they did not want to mention the sorrow, the blackness of balck, because they only wanted to mention the lights which gradually increase”.

6. If you believe that the Zionists “hijacked the course of our history” then you are a kofer ba’ijar as you obviously do not believe that Hashem runs the world (see Mishlei 21:1 that Hashem controls the heart of a king (there is also a well-known maxim that He controls the hearts of kings and ministers but I could not find the source.

7. Learn Hilchot Melachim of Rambam as well as commentators on the mitzva of apopointing a king and judges such as Abarbanel, Rav Hirsch and the Netziv as well as various places in Halacha as well as Aggada and Midrashim (for good advice not halachot) and you will see how to run a state according to halacha.

Health, I will call Rav Kook, Rav Tzvi Yehuda, Rav Meir Simcha of Dvinsk, the Netziv, Rav Arye Levin, Rav Soloveichik, Rav Kalisher, Rav Yehuda Alkelai, the Gra and the Chaatm Sofer to testify on my behalf. You can decide for yourself whom to call on your behalf. Not that this is the first time. 80% of Am Yisrael refused to leave Egypt and died in the Plague of Darkness. Even after seeing all of the signs and wonders ten out of twelve gedolei hador opposed Zionism. Only a small number of social outcasts who had nothing to seek in Bavel joined Ezra and Nehemia’s Zioinist movement.

Sushe, you are simply wromg. A long list of gedolim supported Zionism from the start. I also recommend “Torat Eretz Yisrael” (it is written in English) to you.

For that matter, black clothing was considered a sign of mourning or being on trial and white clothing was a sign of joy. Thus, Jews wore white on Shabbat and even on Rosh HaShana in order to show confidence in Hashem’s mercy. In fact, the Arizal is quoted in Shaar HaKavenot as making a frightening statement about wearing black on Shabbat. Ashkenazi poskim point out that the talmidei chachamim of Pumpedita wore black clokes on Shabbat (Shabbat 147a). The Ben Ish Hai, on the other hand, paskens not to (Halachot Shana Shenia Parashat Lech Lecha Halacha 18). However, Rav Ovadia (lesheetato not to pasken according to Kabbala) says that the minhag of all gedolei hador today is to wear black suits and someone who wears white is acting incorrectly and should be instructed not to change from the minahg of the gedolim (Yalkut Yosef 262:2 in the name of Halichot Olam Part 4).

Thus we see that what is considered proper clothing can change from time to time and place to place although a talmid chacham should not wear either very cheap or very expensive clothing but nice, moderate, clean clothing (Rambam Hilchot Deot 5:9).

If we would follow the ways of the Tora and not pasul everyone who is not exactly like us we would have much more to celebrate (my English teachers said that “a lot” is a parcel of land).

What are your sources? Do you know that “Chassidic dress” is a copy of the dress of the Polish aristocracy of 300 years ago (the only levush yehudi today is jeans as they were invented by Levi Strauss when he saw that miners needed strong pants – trousers to British-speakers)? Do you know that (at least according to Agnon)the Polish authorities mandated the streimel because they thought that it was a sign of disgrace? Do you know that many gedolei Tora wore short suit jackets – and this is, in fact, the norm in the Lithuanian yeshiva world? Do you know that in mussar yeshivot it was actually assur for a bachur to grow a beard as it was considered gaava?

Heaslth, read your post addressed to me together with mine and you will understand.

Health,

1. You wrote that only a machloket between the Chreidim and National Religious is a machloket. This implies that you hold that within a camp there must be uniformity.

2. I dispute your statement that the majority opposed Rav Kook. BTW, the Satmar Rebbe admitted that he was a daat yachid but said that being that others did not sit down and learn it out with him he was not obligated to change his opinion.

3. Hallevai. However, I cannot claim descent from him. At most I might be a nitzotz of one of his talmidim. However, I thank you for the tremendous compliment.

4. I am not “pushing” my sheeta on anyone. I am expounding it.

Hello, who defines “sub-par”? While we re talking about toelet, do you

1. Even if it convinces one it is worthwhile.

2. Why do you dan the writer of the piece bechaf chov? Are you aware of what Chazal say about one who is choshed bekesherim? Not to mention LR and possibly hotzaat shem ra about him.

3. Do you really think that this will convince women to be more machmir? Have you ever thought that this might actually push people away from Tora?

2qwerty, the owner gets the book value. The value of the car in question might be far less because of unusual wear and tear, accidents, etc.

Sam, when you posted had his comment of not caring about what Rav Kook says passed “moderation”? BTW, I think that message we get is fantastic.

CG, all rabbbanim with the exception the NK and its fellow travelers hold that we are in the atchalta d’Geula and except the aforementioned hold that one should participate in the Medina, at least by voting. There are only disagreements about certain points such as whether or not to celebrate Yom HaAtzmaut as a religious holiday although I cannot fathom why someone will not say a misheberach at least for chayalei Tzahal if not for the Medina. There is a well-known injunction to pray for the government although in America (unlike in the UK) it is not practiced although it appears in siddurim.

This is very strange. Fire and theft insurance go together so they could have had the cars stolen. In some neighborhoods it is enough to leave them unlocked.

There is a story about a Jew who was standing on his roof waiting for Hashem to save him from a flood. He declined the offers of a helicopter pilot and boatsman saying that he had perfect faith that Hashem would save him and therefore he did not need them and, in fact, they were threatening his emuna. After he drowned he asked Hashem why He didn’t save him. Hashem said: “Idiot! Who do you think sent the helicopter and the boat?”

CG, Rav Kook said that the Erev Rav is anybody who is halachically Jewish but supports the Goyim against the Jews. This certainly fits NK who joined the PLO (its then leader was “Minister for Jewish Affairs”) and supports Iran. I also heard from Rav Yehuda ben Yishai that there is “erev raviut” – lack of belief in the Geula. As NK continues its denial (I leave whhy to the psychologists) that we are in the beginning of the Geula (atchalta d’Geula) that also fits. As they believe that the Satan is responsible for Medinat Yisrael that also makes them Satanists (or Notzrim, who believe that the Satan is Gd’s nemesis).

BTW, I heard that both Rav Shimon Schwab and his brother asked about shaking hands with a woman. One was told “muttar” and the other was told “yehareg uval yaavor”. However, as I have posted before, a pesak lemaaseh takes into account all of the factors involved. This is the source of the machloket regarding listening to women singers at IDF ceremonies.

Sorry, I meant Sam.

Hello, you’re right about ??. However, convincing others not to supppoert these groups is definitely a toelet.As for his beliefs, all criminals think that they are doing the right thing according to there codes of behavior. Would you delete all of the references to, for example, Abe “Kid Twist” Reles’ career because of a takkanant kadmonim and the fact that he thought that he was ridding the world of “dirty rats”? He, in fact, told the Brooklyn DA that he always knew that Hashem exists and according to one story I read never carried out a “contract” on Shabbat and being that he was a Cohen never in an enclosed area. The criteria is that the actions are well-known to be prohibited. He is thus presumed to know just that either he does not care for one reason or another.

Crazybrit, you are over on motzi shem ra.

Hello, see Rambam Hilchot Melachim at the end of Chapter 3, Ran Derasha 11, Rema Choshen Mishpat 3, Avneui Nezer YD 312:46-52 and Mishpat Cohen (Rav Kook) 147 regarding the powers of the secular authorities. See also He’emek Devar Devarim 17:14 that the Am has the option of a representative democracy to carry out these powers (Abarbanel, if I remember correctly in his introduction to Parashat Shoftim, even states that it is far preferable to monarchy and also states that the people choose the judges of the batei din of three and twenty-three as they have the right to decide who will judge them. Israeli judges are chosen by a committee which includes the people’s representatives).

I wonder if in a previous gilgul he insisted on staying in France, Germany or Poland because the Nazis were obviously talking about other Jews (respectively, German Jews whom they considered traitors during WWI, Polish Jews whom they looked down upon as foreign and primitive and Russian Jews whom the considered to be Communists).

Health, he was judged according mishpat hamelech. See also Sefer Chafetz Chaim 8:5 that for lashon hara it is sufficient if everyone knows that he is a rasha because of the constant bad stories about him whose veracity they do not doubt. See also Choshen Mishpat 34:1 that even if only one person knows that the person is guilty it is assur for him to testify in bet din along with him because of “al teshet yadcha im rasha” (Sma).

Very few are real atheists. In fact, Rav Kook pointed out that even in his time those who “opposed” Tora did not know what they were “opposing”. The problem is that the Medina is not run 100% according to Halacha (Rambam, in Hilchot Melachim 4:10, counts four jobs of the secular authorities: defense, fighting crime, establishing justice and spreading Tora. According to the Avnei Nezer in YD 312 they are only to stop aveirot ben adam lechavero not aveirot ben adam laMakom such as chillul Shabbat). The main problem being the civil justice system (the criminal justice system is anything the public, as the equivalent of the king, wants)is not run according to Halacha and that part of the educational system more-or-les ignores Jewish traditions. The solution is for frum Jews to make aliya, become citizens and vote for change and for Tora learners to learn and teach hilchot medina.

I also think that the teshuva is very straightforward. The boy wanted to go out with a certain girl and perhaps was already going out with her as the introduction states that his rabbonim had tried to speak to him about it. The boy claimed that they were not over on negiah or yichud but never claimed that it was merely platonic (“reut” implies a closer relationship). “Chibba” means affection. This is, in fact, clear from the Shach in YD 157:10, where he talks about “negia derech chibba” (he specifically brings the case in the Gemara of a man who fell in love with an eshet ish) and 159:20, where he uses the term “derech chibba vetaavat biah” (as you implied, the Shach brings that there is a machloket Rishonim regarding whether this is d’Oraita or derabbannan). Rav Moshe also stated explicitly that if the boy wanted a platonic friendship he would seek out other boys (although it is true that many other rabbanim have stated that even if it does start as a platonic friendship it will perforce lead to something more, especially among teenagers). He then went on to say that even if they are not now over on yichud or negiah one thing will lead to another (thus according to the opinion that it is derabbana it is a fence around the Tora).