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Health, so why was the Aguda atzeret cancelled for security reasons? For that matter, why does Rambam say that all go out to a milchemet mitzva?
Sam, we pasken like Rambam and the Rashbam that there is dina d’malchuta in EY (Shulchan Aruch Choshen Mishpat 369:6). According to the Chatam Sofer (Responsa Choshen Mishpat 44) even the Ran and the Rashba would agree regarding public safety and welfare laws.According to Rav Ovadia (Yechaveh Deah 5:4) and Rav Elaishiv (piskei Din Rabani’im v. 6 p. 376-381)there is dina d’malchuta dina regarding Medinat Yisrael.This is because the source is the agreement of the populace (Rambam Hilchot Gezeila v’Aveida 5:18 and Rashbam Baba Batra 54b d”h v’amar Shmuel dina d’malchuta dina).
Daniela,
1. What do you mean “The last time I know these questions being non-theoretical was in Europe during WW2”? B’h the opinion of ora is at least asked in both the US (where Orthodox Jewish groups and individuals submit amici curiae briefs that are accepted and some Supreme Court justices have quoted Chazal and poskim) and Israel (where Jewish law has official status as a source andis frequently quoted in court decisions). This obligates us to clarify these questions on a practical basis.
2. I did not write that bodies should be maimed only that it is permissible. I added that “this is a very severe step which should only be taken in an extreme situation after serious deliberation”.
3. Just as a point of information, the letter was most liely written to then NY governor Hugh Carey. Rav Moshe called him “sar hamedina” and not “hanasi”. At the time there was a move in the NYS legislature to reinstitute it which Carey vetoed. I do not recall any meausre being discussed at the Federal levl at that time.
Efshir and DY, then you would support a prosecutor and judge whose rav tells them that draft-dodgers should be jailed imprisoning someone whose rav told him to dodge the draft? Civil disobedience also implies the willingness to go to jail for one’s beliefs as did Gandhi and Martin Luther King (King wrote in “Letter from a Birmingham Jail”: “In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty”). It then becomes a question of who is justified by the courts of public opinion and history. In some cases they won but in others they were crushed and forgotten (e.g. anti-WW1 protesters).
Daniela,
The “precise conditions” to which you refer only apply to a din Tora. The secular authorities (Rambam Hilchot Rotzeach 2:4 and Hilchot Melachim 3:6) or an official bet din acting under emergency powers (Shulchan Aruch Choshn Mishpat 2:1) may execute criminals without regard to these procedural rules (see Shemuel Bet 1:10-16).This is necessary when there is disrepect for the law in order to preserve public safety and order (Ran Derasha 11, Maharal Chiddushei Aggadot Makkot 7a). Thus, Rav Moshe rules (Iggerot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:68) that if someone takes murder lightly due to his cruelty or there is a general disregard for this heinous crime the authorities are obligated to institute the death penalty.Obviously this should be done as quickly as possible but not so quickly as to chance doing an injustice (Rambam Hilchot Sanhedrin 13:1).
As for maiming bodies of those executed, this is a very severe step which should only be taken in an extreme situation after serious deliberation. However, if the authorities deem necessary it would appear that it is permissible (see Shemuel Alef 18:25-27). It should be recalled that after Eichmann ym”s was executed his body was cremated and the ashes scattered over the Mediterranean Sea in order to prevent his grave from becoming a shrine for his followers.
Somebody once suggested to me that Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Tarfon thought that they would have educated the public sufficiently that no one would commit a capital crime.As for acting naturally,Rav Kook says in “Orot” that we were given the Taryag mitzvot and non-Jews the Sheva Mitzvot (or according to some opinions also the mishpatim) because these are the natural ways of life for Jews and non-Jews. It follows that we should obey natural law as it was conveyed by Hashem.
VM,
1. At the very least person who is executed will never do it again. Even if he imprisoned he might murder. These things do happen.
2. It also gives him the opportunity for a kappara if he regrets his action.
3.I did see that there is a study that claims that the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment but I have my doubts. In the latter case the convict gets food, clothing, shelter, medical care, etc. at taxpayer expense perhaps for decades.In any case, I do not think that here we should make a bottom line decision. From what I know of the subject, game theory includes placing values on what cannot be valued in accounting, such as making a statement about the heinousness of murder and possibly preventing even one. Halachic considerations would, of course, override everything.
So far a criminal justice is concerned, there is no requirement for any government court, Jewish or non-Jewish, to conform to the standards of a sanhedrin. This was only for a time when Am Yisrael are all tzaddikim and crime is extremely rare (Maharal Chiddushei Aggadot Makkot 7a). In other times it is necessary for the government to establish its own standards in order to prevent anarchy (Ran Derasha 11 and Igerot Moshe Choshen Mishpat 2:68). This is especially true of murderers, who may be executed even where the Tora exempts them from punishment by the bet din (Rambam Hilchot Rotzeach 2:4 and Hilchot Melachim 9:14).Thus David HaMelech ordered the ger Amaleki executed on his confession alone (Shmuel Bet 1:14).This is not revenge but both for the protection of society (Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel’s response to Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Tarfon, Mishna Makkot 2:10) and to enable the murderer to atone (by being executed).
Obviously, great care must be taken not to execute an innocent person but in a case where there is no doubt or virtually no doubt it is definitely in order.
So far as serving on a jury is concerned, in many cases they only rule on guilt or innocence and the judge decides the sentence.In any case, in view of the above I would think that it is davka a mitzva to serve on a jury in a criminal case.
I would say that if the talking is disturbing shushing is a tzorech of the tefilla.
What about the talkers (see Mishna Berura 124:27 for the seriousness of this aveira) and people who bring small children who are incapable of sitting quietly (ibid 98:3 and 28, 690:17)?
Health, here is what I posted in reply:
Member
Rav Aharon HaKohen
Tel Aviv, Eretz Yisrael
[This is because] [the Rav] [the proper way] [that is] [, the Chafetz Chaim,] and he would turn his eyes with contempt from any posters [disparaging Rav Kook -ed]).
[words which] [This is because] [And this is especially true regarding] this brilliant and pious [rav] [on this matter] and we must go out and rebuke this humiliation of the Torah, and join ourselves to the protest and great anger of the rabbis and sages of the Holy Land and the exile regarding these words of villainy. [Thus] we should not see [that which is] Holy destroyed, G-d Forbid.And may Hashem, may His Name be Blessed, remove the disgrace from the children of Israel and raise the honor of our Holy Torah. These are the words [of one] who writes with a wounded and agitated heart regarding the honor of our holy Torah which is [being] given over to disgrace.
Aharon HaKohen
If you remember, there was a suggestion that the CC said “Kook Shmook, it was Book”. It could also be that someone was talking about cooking so the CC said “kuch shmooch”.Or that he was denying that Rav Kook said something.
147, you are absolutely correct. Those who do not vote have only themselves to blame. Rav Kook and the Imrei Emmet warned about this. The pain of those things which need fixing is to get them to do teshuva on being grabbed by the Sin of the Spies (this is discussed by Rabbi Hillel Rivlin in the name of the Gra in “Kol HaTor” and Rav Teichtal in “Em HaBanim Semeicha” – so apparently the Satan in fact caused and continues to cause anti-Zionism and opposition to the State).
HaKatan, it is well known that some rabbanim speak in exaggerated language. Once the Satmar rebbe was upset because Rav Aharon Kotler called someone an am ha’aretz. He calmed down when someone told him “the rav says ‘am ha’aretz like the rebbe says ‘apikorus'”.
Health, you are simply falsifying history.
1.There was no stealing of babies or forcing people to abandon religion. I personally know someone whjo came from Jerba at that time and he and his family went to a religious moshav.
2.The state took in EVERYBODY
3. No, the Arabs are terrorists. They wantonly attack innocent civilians. And besides, they are wrong. This is not their land.
HaKatan,
1. It is not only incorrect that the Chafetz Chaim said “Kook schmook”, in fact, he walked out of the first Aguda convention when someone defamed Rav Kook, whom he held in very high esteem and, in fact, told to enter the rabbinate.It is true that some disagreed strongly with Rav Kook (and see Baba Meyzia 83b regarding what a rtalmid chacham can say and what an am ha’aretz can say)most esteemed him greatly. When Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach was a bachur he was a regular at Rav Kook’s seuda shelisheet and derasha and Rav Kook was his messader kiddushin. Rav Eliashiv called Rav Kook a gaon olam (and married a daughter of Rav Kook’s talmid chaver Rav Arye Levine).Rav Sonnenfeld joined him on his “teshuva tour” of the kibbutzim and moshavim and years later gave him a beracha that he should be Cohen Gadol.
2. As I have posted many times the vast majority of gedolim supported Zionism and certainly supported and continue to support the State.
3. When one of Rav Kook’s opponents saw him walking alone at night he reminded him that the Gemara says (Chullin 91a) that a talmid chacham should not do that because of the mezikin (Tosafot d”h mikan). Rav Kook replied tthat the mezikin of Yerushalayim did not consider him a talmid chacham.
Here is an interesting piece that appeared in “Daily Events” regarding how to achieve the highest for of tzedaka:
Texas has a balanced budget amendment. The recently passed 2013 budget cut both taxes and spending, and produced a record-setting $8 billion budget surplus. Congratulations to Governor Rick Perry. By contrast California is an insolvent state with a net worth of NEGATIVE $127.2 billion (according to the California State Auditor).
How about jobs? Feast your eyes on these statistics: Since 2007 one third of all jobs in America were created in Texas, and in the past decade, more jobs were created in Texas than in the other 49 states Combined.
The result is the best economy in America and the one thing Obama can NEVER make happen- robust job creation. Long live Wild West Cowboy Capitalism!.
Health,
1. You are correctt hat Rashi changes the girsa to “nogef”. It could be that a copyist said it out loud, mispronounced the gimmel (This is very common and the Mishna Berura warns against saying “yitkadal”. Similarly, Rav Soloveichik changes “kedusha” in birkat hamazon to “gedusha”, which is in line with the other adjectives describing Hashem’s hand) and then wrote what he heard himself say. However, I will wave mine and point out that one cannot bank one’s finger without moving it in some manner.
2. Ramban says in his Sefer HaMitzvot that we are obligated in our time to establish a state.Rambam says at the beginning of Hilchot Chanukka that we celebrate it because the Chashmonaim established a state.
3. If you call the early Zionists terrorists rather than freedom-fighters then you are obviously on the side of the British, who betrayed their mandate to establish a Jewish state, and the Arabs who murdered Jews – despite the Faisal-Weizman agreement in which the great-great grandfather of the present ruler of Jordan supported a Jewish state in EY.
4. The word “atrocities” is also a gross misrepresentation to the point of hotzaat shem ra. The fact of the matter is that the young, poor state took in twice the number its veteran citizens and gave them full citizenship immediately. No country does this. In the US one must wait at least five years and the Arab countries continue to keep their “brothers and sisters” who left EY in stateless refugee status.
You’re welcome again.
You’re welcome. Dr. Meir Tamari has also written several books. Position papers in Hebrew are available on the website of ???? ????? ????.Rav Yosef Yitzhak Lifshitz of the Shalem Center has also written a number of articles in English which are on-line.
HaKatan, Rav Tzvi Yehuda said that “religious” and “Zionists” are not separate terms. We are Zionists because we arwe religious and part of being religious is being a Zionist.
Health, actually it meas “a person does not move a finger”. “Nokef” is related to “lehakif”, which means “to circumvent” in the sense of “to circumvent the world” – to travel around it. In any case, it is clear that teh Medina is a beracha. The vast majority of the gedolim said so. The fact that there are things which need to be changed is the fault of the hundreds of thousands of frum Jews who did not heed Rav Kook and the Imrei Emet and come at the beginning of the Mandate when the gates were wide open. They continue not to come or, in many cases, come but do not become citizens and vote.
1. Just because the majority voted for something that does not make it right. To give an admittedly extreme example, the majority in Germany voted to despoil and later kill Jews.When NYS enacted rent control, while not all agreed with him, Rav Hutner termed it gezel baal habayit.
2.While as in other monetary matters minhag mevatel halacha, the preferred method is to tax according to the benefit. If all benefit equally the activity is financed by a head tax. If the rich nbenefit more than the poor by wealth taxes. If the benefit is mixed the activity is financed half by the former and half by the latter (see, for example, Shulchan Aruch and Rema Choshen Mishpat 163:3).
3. The government in enjoined not to overtax (Nehemia 5:15, Midrash HaGadol Shemot 21 Introduction to parasha, Ple Yoetz “tikkun”, Rav S.R. Hirsch “Horev” 95:604). What can be done by civil society should not be done by government and what can be done by a more local government, which is closer to the problem, should not be done by a more central government. For example, monetary disputes can be adjudicated by “judicial companies” (e.g batel din) but except for certain groups social pressure is insufficient and government enforcement is necessary – but not necessarily at the Federal level.In fact, alternative dispute resolution (ADR) is gaining popularity due to the expense and time-consuming nature of suits in government courts with many contracts containg ADR clauses.
The question is how to help them. Machon Mishpatei HaAretz has put out a position paper in which they state that enabling the poor to stand on their own feet is preferable and that government may only interfere with property rights in extreme situations.Moroever, they state that there is no obligation to help someone who can work but does not want to (Keli Yakar Shemot 23:5). The position of Manhigut Yehudit is;
Economy
No financial aid from foreign countries
No privatization to core shareholders. Privatization only to the general public.
Jewish labor.
Encouragement of competition. Modification of the antitrust law in accordance.
The State should not produce goods and services that can be produced by the private sector; including education, health, electricity, media and telecommunications.
No new taxes.
Decentralization of as many public systems as possible. Functions such as community police, social security and the legal system should be transferred to the local governments.
Capitalism, Faith and Loving Kindness
A truly Jewish Israel must find the economic structure that will most aptly balance objective economic principles with Jewish values. Careful inspection of Judaism’s approach to economic matters reveals a triangle of principles.
Prinicple 1: Capitalism
Judaism absolutely recognizes personal property rights, the right to amass and maintain wealth and the fact that there will never be full economic equality. Moreover, Judaism sees wealth as a sign of blessing. Our Patriarchs were all “millionaires.”
Commerce, which socialism sees as negative and “robbery of the workers,” is viewed in Judaism as an honorable trade, just as any other legitimate source of income. Many of Israel’s sages engaged in commerce, from Rabbi Yehudah Hanasi who compiled the Mishnah to the Holy Ari.
Principle 2: Faith
A Jew must always understand that his wealth is not the product of his business acumen and that he is not its ultimate owner. It is G-d’s blessing that brought him success, and wealth is nothing more than a deposit in his hands to enable him to do what is right in G-d’s eyes. According to Judaism, it is permissible and appropriate to enjoy wealth. Judaism does not encourage asceticism, but guides us within the refining cultural framework of Torah. Furthermore, Judaism obligates the Jewish capitalist to perform actions that completely contradict the rules of capitalism. He must cease from work on the Shabbat even if he will lose the economic chance of a lifetime. During the Temple era, the Jew’s capitalism was even more compromised, when he was commanded to thrice yearly ascend to Jerusalem for the holidays, leaving his work far behind.
The laws of Monetary Sabbatical (Shmittat Ksafim) and the Jubilee, in which loans and land return to their original owners, are obviously the most compelling expression of the second leg of the economic triangle. The idea that the entire capitalistic game eventually returns to its starting point and that personal property is not exactly personally owned completely contradicts capitalism. Currently, these laws are reserved for the “Era of the Messiah,” but we can integrate the principle of faith inherent in them. The main economic objective is not wealth just for its own sake, but rather the spiritual lifestyle that it can foster.
Principle 3: Loving kindness
Acts of loving kindness are the responsibility of the individual and the community. No hiding behind state organizations such as social security or welfare. The welfare mandate, like most other authority, will be the responsibility of the community and its elected officials. The local officials must be responsible for the underprivileged of the community. They know them personally and can identify who is truly needy. They will collect the taxes and decide what portion of the district income will be allocated for education, health, welfare, etc. Furthermore, every individual in the community must take responsibility for the poor, setting aside a fixed percentage of his income for charity, as the Torah commands.
How can we apply these principles today?
Jewish economy that strikes a balance between capitalism, faith and loving kindness will enhance the development of a free market while restraining and refining it. For example, Jewish economy will not allow for flooding the market with a product, which makes it impossible for smaller businesses to compete. This practice is based on capitalistic principles but ignores the ideals of faith and loving kindness. An entrepreneur would not be allowed to open a shopping mall and put all the surrounding small shops out of business. Instead, he would have to make provisions to give the small businessman a fair chance to integrate his business into the mall. A person would not be allowed to hire foreign workers while ignoring the unemployment of the people in his community. And certainly, an elected official’s salary would have to be proportional to the average wage of the general public.
HaKatan, when Rav Tvi Yehuda was told of that contention he replied that he was not acquainted with the Satan.Among gedolim who recognized the State of Israel as Hashem’s creation to advance the Geula were Rav Kahaneman, Rav Shraga Feivel Mendelowitz, Rav Herzog, Rav Menachem Kasher, Rav Meshulam Rath, Rav Aharon Soloveichik
It is coercive theft to take tax money for purposes other than those which are the province of government. Rambam (Hilchot Melachim 4:10) says that the central government has four functions: advancing Tora, establishing justice (thus, it could be, as Rav Yuval Cherlow has suggested, that the central government can establish the “rules of the game” in the economic sphere), national security and fighting crime (in a federal system – which is also the ideal Jewish system as set forth in Hilchot Sanhedrin 1:1 – there could be a differentiation between local and national crime as set forth in the first mishna of Sanhedrin).
Tzedaka is the function of the communities and individuals (Hilchot Matanot Ani’im 9:1-3).This is not only more efficient as the central government cannot deal with poor people according to their individual needs (ibid 7:3) or effectively weed out phonies.In addition, the existence of government programs gives people an excuse not to help because “the government will take care of him”.
Nowhere does he say that government should subsidize, for example, sports or “cultural” activities.I submit that these subsidies constitute robbing those who are not interested in them to give to htose who are in the form of lower ticket prices.
Charlie,
The majority may not take from one and give to another without a unanimous vote (Rema Choshen Mishpat 2:1) except possibly in an emergency situation in order to prevent people from trampling on the Tora (Sema subsection 13). John Adams, in fact, wrote “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” and the Netziv strongly implies this regarding the mitzva of appointing a king (= a coercive government). The fact that Chareidim in Israel can do this only shows that Adams was also right when he wrote “The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing.”
As for the “robber barons”, Leonard Reed, in an article in “The Freeman” (available on-line) argues that they benefited consumers by lowering prices (see Mishna Baba Metzia 4:12 where Chachamim say “zachur letov”). In another article in hte same publication (also available on-line) Edmund Opitz claims that their abuses were caused by government intervention. As for the Tora restrictions on property, with the exception of ribbit (which can be allowed with a heter iska and possibly does not apply to the modern corporation) they cannot be compelled.
In any case, the ideal is to create productive jobs. The experience of all countries, including Israel, is that this is done best by a free economy (presuming of course. Rav Kook calls this “true Socialism” (letter to Shlomo Zalman Shragai on the economic system in the time of Mashiach). Why hew used that term could be in order not to push away the Socialists (see “Ein Aya” Shabbat 2:8) or because he envisioned a moral society where the rich would feel brotherhood with the poor (thus “social”).
HaKatan, Rav Schach held that Rambam does not consider it a mitzva but others such as Rav Shaul Yisraeli countered that he does not cou?t mitzvot that are included in other mitzvot or which are the bases for mitzvot (??? see Hilchot Melachim 5:6 and Rambam’s commentary on the Mishna Sota 8:6 where he obviously holds that conquest of EY is obligatory).Rav Ovadia wrote that the heter to give land is only theoretical as they really want all of EY and this is too much (begging the question of how much is not too much). As for the Chafetz Chaim, he in fact advocated serving in Goyish armies so that we would know what to do when we have our own state. In any case, almost all of the gedolim supported the establishment of the state. The leader of the Aguda in EY, Rav Y.Y. Levin,signed the Declaration of Independence and served in the first cabinet (before the idea of a deputy minister without a minister above him).
Charlie, would you like to expound on your statement regarding laissez-faire? It seems to me that its main point is that government should not be coercive regarding economic activity. Everyone under his own vine and fig tree. As for charity, we all know that the highest form of charity is giving someone a productive job (and not make-work – see Shach Yoreh Deah 249:7). Capitalism does this best whereas as Socialism keeps people in dependency so that they will feel obligated to vote for the party that “benefits” them.As for the rest of Rand’s philosophy, she has her own definition of selfishness.For example, she says that a man should risk his life for his wife as he cannot bear life without her. However, I agree that most of her beliefs are anti-Tora. Certainly her atheism but also her super-rationalism, which denies emuna.
1. The State is good because it is a mitzva (Ramban Sefer HaMitzvot). It was obviously brought about by Hashem and we see that it is a leap forward in the unfolding Geula.
2. The riots of 5709 were caused by Arab nationalism and the lack of response of British security forces.Rav Kook refused to shake Norman Bentwich’s hand because of this. The history of Jews in Arab lands is a history of persecution and this is well known to anyone who has studied even a little of the history.Rav Sonnenfeld also refused to sign away the Kotel. Nobody has that right as it is not the property of any individual or group but of Am Yisrael.In nay case, we have an obligation to go to war if necessary to conquer and inhabit EY as set forth by Ramban.
3. It is a great mitzva to go into the IDF. Many gedolim say so and the pillars of Halacha such as Rambam say so. As for rov, when it was pointed out to the Satmar rebbe that he was a daat yachid he said that rov only applies when there is a discussion among the Sanhedrin or within a bet din.
3.
Health,
1. The tiny yishuv could not possibly have withstood the Arabs in 5708 and 5727 or take in double it’s size in ten years without Hashem’s help.We will accept whomever He sends as shelichim (Me’ila 17a).
2. A melech is not needed for a milchemet mitzva. This is proven by the fact that various judges conducted wars even before they became judges. Anyway, according to Rav Kook any leader accepted by the people has the din of melech for these matters. This is also the mashmaut of the Netziv on the mitzva of appointing a king.In any case, all go into the army in a milchemet mitzva (Rambam Hilchot Melachim 7:4). The leader (whatever his technical title is) compels them if necessary (ibid 4:2).
Shreck,
1. The Geula comes slowly in stages (Yerushalmi Berachot 1:1).
2. We accept miracles from wherever and through whomever Hashem sends them (Megilla 17a).
3. While here are problems, in Israel Shabbat and Jewish holidays are national days of rest. Army mess halls have signs “Keep Kosher! That’s an order!” and during Pesach there are signs at the entrance to bases that it is prohibited to bringin chametz. Etc., etc.
4. Hashem uses the IDF as a keli to protect us. This is called “derech hateiva”.
Health, everybody agrees that the real learners should continue to receive deferments. The real question is whether an entire subgroup (which is growing) should spend all of there time registered in yeshivot and kollelim (those for are not able to learn all day simply wander about or get into trouble)or if for society’s benefit and their benefit they should be pushed into the world of army service and productive work.
Shalom, actualy rhere is a case before the US Supreme Court challenging the right to withhold funds from an organization that does not declare itself opposed to certain actions. Stay tuned. However, you are correct that the word “gezeira” is misused today. If the government cuts the budget so that Israel does not wind up like Spain or Greece that is caled a gezeira.
Health, we have of State of Israel because Hashem wants us to have a state. It is improving all of the time with the unfolding of the Geula. As for Turkey, if you think Erdogan is so great go live under him yourself.As for bnei Tora, they are davka the first who should go into the army. They are the hard core who even go to a milchemet reshut (Sota 44a).
Does this mean that they want more non-learners out of the yeshivot and kollelim and into the army and work force?
On the contrary, it is a Tora obligation (Rambam Hilchot Melachim 5:1 and 7:4)and it is forbidden for them to think of their families or personal safety (ibid 7:15). Deserters’ forelegs can be cut off by people who are tough and aggressive (ibid Halacha 4).
Popa, I do not know where you live or have lived but bli ayin hara I have lived in Israel for 26 (ad 120) years. While I am not generally consulted, it would be incredible if there was a civil war and I did not hear about it. I would certainly have known about rabbanim being murdered by government hit squads.
On the contrary, as Rav Lior said this will strengthen the yeshiva world and the Chareidi community in general. The yeshivot and kollelim will return to being elite institutions to the benefit of real learners and those that can’t learn full-time will have socially acceptable alternatives.
Popa, I have never heard such things. Certainly have been no slaughters, intrigues or civil war (and Rambam includes the period of Herod, who was even worse), As for Ben Hecht’s accusations, his book was a political polemic and should be judged as such. However, even he does not make such accusations. His focus is the Kastner affair, which is still very controversial. Some say that Kastner was a great tzaddik who saved 1,670 Jews. Others say the opposite. Hashem is the final judge.
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The Hasmoneans did much worse aveirot than the worst leftist would dream of doing (like slaughtering the Chachamim). How much more so should we celebrate the founding of the State of Israel and say the full Hallel with a beracha
Health,
1. They will not be weeded out until fiscal constraints compel it.
2. They should be given alternatives that will make them productive citizens, starting with Army service.
Health, the problem is that they are sitting and “learning” in public libraries (i am currently sitting between two “learners” – one is watching a SciFi movie and the other is watching something from which I had to avert my eyes) – except for those walking the streets and “learning”. The real learners will continue to learn.
The Tzitz Eliezer takes a middle position. Being that in Israel many wear them out it is not yohira but if someone feels that it would lead to a chillul Hashem he can wear them inside. On the other hand, Rav Yaakov Kaminetzky was very upset iwth someone who did not wear a kipa at work as he thought that the person needed it to remind himself of who he was whereas he allowed someone wth more yirat Shemayim to refrain where the boss insisted on bareheadedness.
DY, b’toch ami ani yoshev.I do not, though, have a negative view of Chareidim. I have a negative view of some parts of their ideology.
“What do you think you’ll find in the Beis Midrash?”
Some learners and many empty seats.
I think that rocket attacks are the result of weakness (real or perceived) of the politicians who decide when and how to react. As for lomdei Tora, anyone who goes to Chareidi neighborhoods (outside) and public libraries during seder hours knows that many of those registered are not killing themselves in the tent of Tora.
On the contrary, Rambam says that Chazal went according to the scientific knowledge of their time and that this is proper so long as it is accepted scientifically (Moreh Nevuchim 3:14 at the end, Hilchot Kidush HaChodesh 1:24)although for halachic purposes it might not make a difference (Hilchot Shechita 10:12-13).
About, Rav Ovadia said the opposite. There would not be the concept of a yeshiva as we know it without the IDF. As for your comment about intentions, I dispute it and demand to see your survey.
1. The contention that the IDF “persecutes” Orthodox Jews is nonsense. In fact the majority of the candidates in officer training courses are Orthodox. Army kitchens are kosher and it is assur to bring chametz on bases during Pesach – and a son of one of my friends said that his base is even kitniot-free.
2. It is a mitzva d’Oraita to serve in the IDF (Ramban Sefer HaMitzvot Mitzvot that Rambam “forgot” Mitzva 4, Rambam Hilchot Shabbat 2:23 and Hilchot Melachim 7:4, Mishpat Cohen 143, Tzitz Eliezer 13:100)
3. All those who meavzeh rabbanim and quote sharp statements of gedolim should learn Baba Metzia 83b regarding what a gadol may say and what an am ha’aretz may say.
Kanoi, I don’t know where you live but b”H I have lived in Israel for 25 years and I know people who work even though they have not done the Army for various reasons (too old when they came, medical reasons etc.). I also know young men who worked before their actual enlistment date. Once more, an Israeli citizen who is not learning full time (or at least registered in a yeshiva/kollel and not caught) is eligible for the draft. Until and unless he actually enlists he may work for whomever will hire him. It could be that employers will not be quick to hire someone who may be drafted in the near future but
that is their consideration. So far as the law is concerned they may hire them.
Kwaiker, you are guilty of hotzaat shem ra on many Jews and bizui talmid chacham (RAV Goren).
Akuperma, there is no law that states that a person cannot work unless he has completed army service. If someone is not learning full-time (i.e. he is working) he is then subject to the draft assuming that he meets the age and medical requirements.
Bentsch,
“Any Arab violence after the advent of zionism (which predates ’48) can be attributed to it.” How about “any Arab violence after you were born can be attributed to you”? Just as logical.
“Jews were never big volunteers in serving the military”. In EY they were.