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health,
1. You and Erdogan make a nice couple. Actually turkey is very popular here although some claim that there is no messora.
2. In other words you could not think of one so you punted.
3. Why don’t you?
4. Several times when I pointed out to people that tey were over they told me thatt hey knew the Halacha. In other words, they were meizid.
Yekke, the author is Rabbi J. David Bleich (you can read the Wikipedia article on him yourself). In his article he quotes major poskim such as Rav Moshe. However, ain hachi nami, if he says “I want a pen for writing on Shabbat” you should not sell it to him unless he has a heter to write on Shabbat (e.g. he is a doctor). Howeevr, the mere fact that he is non-observant does not mean that he will use it b’issur. Maybe he will use another pen. Maybe before Shabbat comes in he will do teshuva.
Health,
1. Make aliya and work for change instead of sitting in galut backbiting.
2. Yes it is.
3. So maybe none of us really exists. We are all the same person, maybe not even Jewish, who is doing this for fun. The Chofetz Chaim says (torah.org.il Laws of Rechilut 1:9 translation)
It is also forbidden to help one’s friend deduce who spoke or did something against him even without revealing the name of the culprit. Whether to speak more generally, so that only later will his friend realize the identity of the speaker, or if the friend knows what happened but does not know who did it, to give him hints so the friend will deduce who it was, is prohibited.
So it turns on how much chance I have of finding out who Simcha is.
MW & Yekke, if the person can use the object in a permissible manner there is no problem (see “Contemporary Halachic Problems” v. 4 p. 101-104 available on-line). It could be that the examples you gave, MW, are special cases because of the intense temptation.
Health, by what right should gentiles be punished for riding on Shabbat? As for your post about Turkey, that really is a turkey. To be more exact, jive turkey.
How do you define “Orthodox or Yeshivish” clothing? Go to your neighbor and ask if you can take something off his clothes line. Otherwise checkout black suits on various websites. Just be warned that someone might mistake you for a lawyer.
health,
1. I already posted the Avnei Nezer’s statement. The king (or the secular authorities) do not deal with chillul Shabbat. The fact of the matter is that there are laws regarding working on Shabbat. These are accepted and acceptable as labor laws. If you want to do something constructive volunteer for a kiruv organization.
2. That is related to your complaint about Shabbat desecrates being given drivers’ licenses. Stop stonewalling and answer the question.
3. You are obviously a tremendous am ha’aretz. Rechilut is Health telling Avi that Simcha said something which could cause a quarrel between Avi and Simcha.
Health,
1. The cameras would only show that the car was driven. It would not show who drove it. What about rented, borrowed and stolen cars? In nay case, as I already posted twice previously, the Avnei Nezer says that it is not the job of the secular authorities (cf. Freddie Prinze’s super, Mr. Rivera).
2. The reward of having learned Torah is your payment. The witness will answer the question! Would you sell a pen to a non-observant Jew? Yes or no?
3. You were over on rechilut as I did not notice Simcha’s comment. You were also over on “b’tzedek tishpot amiteicha” as you did not presume that. Should we consider you religious?
Is that a reason to vote for someone? Vote for Cruz. He is a staunch supporter of Israel and traditional values.
Health,
1. So who is going to ticket them? A police office who is driving on Shabbat? Not to mention the fact that this will cause the driver to do more chillul Shabbat by stopping, starting, etc. Not to mention that it cause fatalities c”v people who are on missions of pikuach nefesh are stopped. Anyway, as I already posted, according to the Avnei Nezer this is not the government’s job.
2. You still have not answered my question. Would you sell a pen to a non-observant Jew?
3. Why are suggesting that I “jump on”? This is a very serious aveira. You are making yourself like the orchei din (see Mishlei 43:26).
Health, if you owned a stationary store would you refuse to sell to someone who might write on Shabbat? Would you take back his writing instruments if he did? FYI, there already is an incentive not to drive on Shabbat. Israel insurance companies give discounts to drivers who declare themselves shomrei Shabbat – and if they do drive they are not covered in case of an accident.
NeutiquamErro, how many times are you going to repeat that mantra? How many times will I have to explain the difference between a state and a government? As for your analogy between a person who commits abn aveira, in that case no one is religious (Kohelet 7:20). Indeed, Rav Kook (“March of the Camps”) decried these non-Jewish labels as they impede teshuva. The fact of the matter is that observance is a continuous distribution and always has been. How Hashem judges each individual is His calculation (see Rambam Hilchot Teshuva 3:1-2 and Rav Dessler, “Kuntras Nekudat HaBechira” in “Michtav MeEliahu”).
Neville, why do you only mention them. What about Rav Reines and Rav Kook? What about the fact that among the signers of the Declaration of Independence were Rav Maimon of the Mizrahi and Rav Levin of the Aguda?
The Bavli was redacted later and takes the Yerushalmi into account. This follows the general rule of halacha k’batra. Rambam, however, sometimes paskens like the Yerushalmi.
NeutiquamErro, I see that I will have to explain the difference between a government and a state four hundred times. Governments run the state in accordance with the constitution (a.k.a. regime). They come and go, as sometimes do regimes (take an course on the political history of France). In fact, I heard (although I also heard it denied but that’s the way it goes)that when Rav Tzvi Yehuda said both Hallel and selichot on Yom HaAtzmaut that fell on Behab he said “Hallel for the State, selichot for the government”. The government is half a glass. Government offices are closed on Shabbat, yamim tovim and in most cases even Chol HaMoed. The IDF and other governmental offices have kosher food. Today teh YWN tells us that the observant Police Commissioner sold the Police Dept.’s chametz. The President (who is traditional and raised a storm when he called Reform avoda zara)and IDF Chief of Staff do the same. So far as promoting toeva is considered, there are several toevot. One of them is dishonesty in business (Devarim 25:13-14). Would you call an otherwise observant person who is dishonest in business “religious”? Should he receive an honor in shul? What about someone who refuses to give his wife a get? What about someone who has some other yetzer hara problem such as a bad midda (Rav Chaim Vital says that that is worse than a bad action and the Ran says in his Fifth Derasha that it is worse than an ideological errorr, which is why Avraham insisted that Yitzchak’s shidduch come from Lavan’s family and not from the Canaanites. Is there anyone (besides yourself, of course) whom you do not posel?
I also note that you did not respond to my point about IDF officer candidates.
This trend is mirrored in Israel society as a whole as reported in the Jerusalem Post.
Health, your lack of halachic knowledge mirrors your lack of secular knowledge. Giving a person a license to drive does not say that he can drive on Shabbat. That is his choice. Similarly, it is permitted to sell a pen to a non-observant Jew even though he will write on Shabbat. As for the parades, offensive as they are I do not according to the Avnei Nezer the only reason not to allow them is the need to close streets and greatly inconvenience people. Perhaps it would be better if no parades were allowed. On any case, I wrote that we are only on the path, not that we have arrived. I invite you to make aliya and vote for change. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.
Health, I know it’s difficult but please try to be precise. Their are no laws that “allow” them. There are also no laws that prohibit them. The Avnei Nezer in fact says (Yoreh Deah 319:50) that the secular authorities do not deal with aveirot ben adam laMakom but only aveirot ben adam l’chavero where necessary in order to maintain an orderly society:
????? ???? ??? ??? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?????? ??????. ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ????
Of course, the battei din of 23 would have jurisdiction but we all know how difficult it is to convict someone in a din Torah.
Yekke, absolutely. I already posted that the geula comes slowly in stages (Yerushalmi, Berachot 1:1).
Froggie, there is a discussion in the Rishonim as to whether Hallel on a day of salvation is a Torah obligation or a rabbinic obligation. In any case, we have an obligation to make a festival just as Purim and Chanuka are man-made festivals. In fact, it was quite common for communities and even families to make their own festivals (see “A PURIM IN EVERY GENERATION” by Rabbi Shlomo Jakobovits, which can be read on-line).
NeutiquamErro, I must have missed that one in the multiplicity of comments. First of all, we do not always pasken like the Shulchan Aruch. Certainly not Ashkenazim but eevn Rav Ovadia sometimes paskened against him because of another klal (e.g safek berachot l’hakel). If the question is does the State of Israel act 100% accordingto Halacha, the answer is “not yet but it does substantially act according to Halacha”. So it depends on whether you are an “all or nothing” person or if you praise what is good and try to fix what is not. Phil Chernofsky of the OU Israel Center compared this argument to three brothers who were hit by a car while playing in the street and required hospitalization. Even after they were released they still required physical therapy. One brother thought that being released was enough, one thought that having to undergo p.t. meant that there was nothing to celebrate and the third thanked Hashem for bring him this far and prayed for the future.
Health, your command of the English language is worse than I thought.Judicial review means that they can knock down a law.Thus the government cannot do whatever it wants. However, if no one objects than they do not get involved. This is highly unlikely in a Jewish community but if it happens this then becomes a minhag and poskim are generally loathe to overturn minhagim. As for the Nazi party, I was not around to have a problem with it.In any case, it never received a majority of seats in the Reichstag. After it was named to form the government it suppressed all other parties and ended judicial review and independence. Thus, if I had been around I would have had a problem with it even before it started to persecute Jews. I would also like to take this opportunity to give you a lesson in Political Science (my B.A.). The government is not the state (Louis XIV notwithstanding). Neither is the regime. The government is a group of people who run the entity known as the state according to a set of rules (regime/constitution). Governments and even regimes come and go but the state remains. For example, France is now on its fifth republic (constitution) and has also had kings and emperors but it is the same state.
NeutiquamErro, to which question are you referring?
Health, take a remedial reading course. I wrote that the rabbanim exercise judicial review (although if you look at the responsa literature they also exercised judicial restraint, especially when the case involved an established minhag).
Brisker,
1. I can say the same thing about you bringing proofs from your community.
2. Regarding Rav Soloveichik, I can counter-claim that rabbanim who said otherwise were influenced by the clerical parties in Europe. In any case, he was very definite about listening to rabbanim on halachic matters.He even wrote an essay on Korach’s rebellion called “The Common Sense Rebellion against Torah Authority”.
3. Rav Lichtenstein has an essay on the concept of daat Torah which can be read on-line. It seems to me obvious that just as one does not bring in a plumber if one has an electrical problem one does not ask a rav about economics (unless, of course, he is Rav Prof. Israel Kirzner or someone similar).
4. I do not know how much of a source Artscroll books are. In fact, Rav Moshe Tendler was very upset with that bio as it presented Rav Moshe as one-dimensional and did discuss the way he acted in his personal life. I also do not know what is meant by “running” Klal Yisrael. As I posted, the rabbanim set the legal and moral parameters. This perforce limits the secular professionals. For example, it might save a great deal of money to put everyone age 60 and up on an ice floe and send them out to sea but obviously the rabbanim would paskin that they must find another way (full disclosure: I am over 60).
666- ???? ???
For some interesting English gematiot see “GEMATRIA and 666”.
BTW ???? has the same gematria as ???? and ?? ????? (income tax).
Brisker, you never listen to your own drivel? Not to mention Health’s? Who says that it only involves tax issues? If you study the history of the keillot you will see that rabbanim only became involved when someone raised an objection after a decision (usually about taxes, which no one has ever liked, as Rehavam ben Shlomo discovered) was made. Their function was basically judicial review. However, if no one objected they did not invalidate a decision on their own.FYI, the Netziv says that the mitzva to appoint a king is conditioned upon the people asking for one as they must believe that the system of government is appropriate for them.Rabbi Chaim David HaLevi says that there are no halachot regarding economics, only goals but the economists decide how to achieve them. Rav Moshe said that military decisions are made by the military leadership. In fact, when Rav Kook and Rav Solovechik were asked for advice they only set forth the choices and their ramifications but left the final decisions to the questioners. Rav Tzvi Yehuda never endorsed any political party but gave anyone who asked a beracha as he believed that each one had part of the truth.
Yekke, you are simply incorrect. In fact, Ben-Gurion said that our title deed to EY is the Tanach and sponsored a Tanach circle. While he many others were not personally observant they recognized that Israelihood (as opposed to a galut “Yiddishkeit”) requires a grounding in the Tanach and the Talmud and even made them part of the HS graduate exams (bagrut). As I previously posted, the Jewish character of the State has always been an integral part of the consensus (social contract). Even liberals try to co-opt Jewish concepts. For example, the anti-animal cruelty group is called Igud Tzaar Baalei Chaim and when the Knesset codified the obligations of bailees Shulamit Aloni (!) insisted that it be called “Chok Arba’ah Shomrim”. For that matter, Yossi Sarid (!) was instrumental in establishing the Hesder yeshiva in Kiryat Shemona. There is also a law against lashon hara and a law requiring one who can to proffer assistance called “Chok Al Taamod al Dam Re’eicha”. For that matter, Halacha is enshrined by a basic (quasi-constitutional) law and is frequently quoted by both observant and non-observant judges.
American Yerushalmi, Rav Zalman Baruch Melamed says that Bennett does ask rabbis. However, according to the Rema (Choshen Mispat 163:1) he is not required to listen and neither are the voters:
?? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??”? ??????? ?? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ???”? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?”? ???? ????? ???? ?????’ ??? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? (???’ ????”? ??? ???? ??’ ?”? ?????”? ??”? ?????) ??’ ??”? ??’ ??”? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????:
???? – his opinion and not his rav’s
??? ???? – for the sake of Heaven and not for the sake of some personal or subgroup interest
As for the nature of the State, calling it extremely secular is libelous. Shabbat and yamim tovim are official days of rest, government offices are even closed during Chol HaMoed, food in government institutions is kosher, during Sukkot the President receives visitors in his sukka, etc., etc.
As for the Chareidi tzibbor, it is difficult to say what their leaders tell them as what they say publicly is not always what they say when the extremists are not listening (the latter even threw rocks at Rav Eliashiv when he reached an agreement on moving graves). A case in point is the proliferation of Chareidi professional training programs and colleges (sometimes even tracks within secular colleges).
Health,
1.I don’t have to. You do a good enough job.
2. Wrong again. They informed each other as to who were pasul according to the other’s opinion (Yevamot 14a). Their stalemate was due to an argument over whether we go according to the greater number or the greater amount of wisdom. I heard an opinion that that was why Rabbi Eliezer would not accept the majority vote. He was from Bet Shammai and he was greater in wisdom than all of them put together (Pirkei Avot 2:8) so he held that he was the rov.
Health,
1. Who are these anonymous “Litvish Poskim & the Brisker Poskim”? Are they the “gedolim shlita” who sign pashkevilim?
2. RZ does not have “that many Rabbis”? What about, Rav Kalischer, the Netzviv, Rav Kook, Rav Uziel, Rav Meir Simcha, Rav Soloveichik, Rav Avraham Shapira, Rav Goren, Rav Tzvi Yehuda and Rav Mordechai Elaihu? You can add Rav Ovadia, who called himselfa Zionist. Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach who said that when he wanted to go to kivrei tzaddikim he went to the military cemetery on Har Herzl and Rav Asher Weiss paskens shailot from IDF officers so maybe they can also be considered Zionists.
3. I think that it is obvious that this only holds when there is a discussion and vote. Otherwise how do we know? Moreover, there is the question of who is included. This was the Rema’s reason for rejecting the Mechaber’s two out of three (Rambam, Rif and Rosh) sheeta. BTW, sometimes we pasken like a yachid. For example, we often pasken like Rabbi Yossi against Chachmim because his reasoning was with him (nimuuko imo).
Health, who says that most poskim hold like Rav Moshe. In any case, halacha k’rabbim is only when there is a discussion and vote, as in a din Torah or on the Sanhedrin. Just out of curiosiy, do you wear a tallit katan?
Simcha, my understanding is that you get points for doing it but do not lose points for not doing it. Sort of like an extra credit question on an exam.
Health,
1.Rav Ovadia rejects Rav Moshe’s opinion and even rules that one must make aliya against one’s parents’ wishes (Yechaveh Daat 4:49).
2.The site you quoted also contains the opinions of the Tzitz Eliezer and Rav Schachter against Rav Moshe’s opinion.
3. See also “The Mitzvah of Living in the Land of Yisrael:Is it a Biblical Commandment?” on yutorah.org.
4. The Mabit says that a mistaken talmid wrote what is attributed to Rav Chaim Cohen (Pitchei Teshuva 75:6 who records dissenting opinions, most prominently the Teshuvot Maharit 58).
Actually, one could say that it is a Jewish custom adopted by gentiles – a seudat hodaya. Rav Soloveich celebrated Thanksgiving himself and Rav Moshe permitted it. Others were machmir. See “Thanksgiving: Harmless Holiday or Chukos HaGoyim” on the Ohr Sameach website.
Health,
1. That is why I asked if you hope to be in Brooklyn.
2. Someone who does not dream is called a rasha (Berachot 55b).
3. It has been coming slowly in stages for the past 68 years.
Health, are you planning to say “Next year in Brooklyn”? Have you at least bought a place in Brooklyn for after 120 years? The Geula comes slowly in stages (Yerushalmi Berachot 1:1).
Health, at one time just having a state was a Zionist “fantasy”. Of course, if you do not believe in the Geula (or don’t want to believe as you have accepted Brooklyn as your Yerushalayim) …
On the contrary, Mammele. It shows how imperative religious aliya is. When the doors were wide open for a while shortly after the British took over Rav Kook called for massive religious aliya saying that there would be a state and that it was in the hands of observant (tartei mashma) Jews to make it a Torah state democratically. He also called for an umbrella organization of all religious Jews who supported yishuv EY.
Today we see that the Supreme Court is taking a greater role in public life. In the long term it could morph into a Sanhedrin if those appointing the judges are religious or at least traditional and if they have people to nominate. If the seniority process remains iy’H Noam Sohlberg will become President of the Court in another twelve years. We have an opportunity to give him the people who will enable him to bring about a halachic revolution on top of Aharon Barak’s constitutional revolution.
Wolf, who said that one must be free of sin? If that were true no one would ever be able to give tochacha. (Kohelet 7:20). the Torah does not give such mitzvot.
Ubiquitin, why didn’t the other lawyer object to the instruction and if overruled use it as a ground for appeal?
Barry, maybe he felt that you were personally hostile to him. If not, he may have wasted one of his peremptory challenges. BTW, a lawyer may not use them to exclude a jurors based on race, ethnicity, or sex (Batson v. Kentucky, 476 U.S. 79 (1986)). Thus, the opposing lawyer can issue a “Batson challenge” to the jury. If this goes the way of general anti-discrimination laws expect this to develop into a whole megilla.
Wolf, regarding the 13 middot, he has on whom to rely (Tefilla k’Hilchata ch. 4 footnote 26 in the name of Rav Eliashiv being that today everybody knows that there are different minhagim). As for tochacha in general, the Chofetz Chaim said that it is related to hochacha – you have to prove to him that he is wrong. That is easier said than done. People always have rationalizations and excuses.
In some jurisdictions people can volunteer for jury duty. Often they are retirees who find it a good way to spend their free time. Some of them are quite knowledgeable as they come to the courthouse regularly to watch trials.
As for what jurors lawyers seek, it depends on the case. For example, lawyers defending members of minority groups often seek young college-educated jurors as they are presumed to be more liberal. Of course, the prosecutor can reject them but each side only gets a certain number of rejections that are not for cause.
To which Gemara are you referring? I any case, no names of gedolim were published so I strongly suspect that threats were made by katanim. Or perhaps gedolim in the sense of large muscles.
Joseph, regarding closely held corporations you are almost certainly right. It does seem anomalous to allow Jews to exempt themselves from prohibitions just by declaring themselves a corporation. However, if it is a public corporation whose present shareholders are all Jewish but might not be in the near future it gets sticky. What about a huge corporation whose CEO is Jewish (as was DuPont when Irving S. Shapiro headed it)? It would seem that he is no different than any Jew who works for a gentile.
Gavra, Hobby Lobby is a closely held corporation and this was he basis of SCOTUS’ decision.
Joseph, that is a big discussion about which much ink has been spilled. If you want to be machmir you cannot own shares in any corporation that operate on Shabbat or pays or receives interest. If you own shares in a corporation that owns chametz you must include them in your pre-Pesach sale. Non-kosher food is also a problem as one may not conduct business with them on a regular basis. Meat cooked in milk is completely out. If you want to be really machmir you will not invest in a pension fund or insurance policy where the fund invests in such companies.
Joseph,
1. Whether there is a right to a jury trial in a civil case depends on the state and the case. The judge generally has wide latitude.
2. True. However, we are tlking about a b’diavad situation.
3. Again, it depends. Soemtimes the court can order ADR.
4. See #2.
5. See the article “Jury Service in Halachah” on the website “dinonline”.
Joseph, I was referring to the jurors. Both litigants agreed on the jurors. The defendant could have requested a non-jury trial. He could also have requested ADR. In some jurisdictions the judge can direct the parties to a court or court-approved provider.
Joseph, secular civil law can override Halacha in two instances:
1. Commercial and labor laws have the status of minhag hamedina (Piskei Choshen, Dinei Halva’ah 2:29 note 82 and Hilchot Geneiva, chapter 1, note 4, p. 13 and Iggerot Moshe, Choshen Mishpat 1:72).
2. A takkana for the benefit of society which the bet din would have made if it had the power (Rama C.M. 73:14, Chatam Sofer Teshuvot Chatam Sofer C.M. 44, Teshuvot Imrei Yosher 2:252:2, Teshuvot Doveiv Meisharim 77, Iggerot Moshe C.M. 2:62) and Kitvei HaGaon Rav Y.E. Henkin 2:96 but see Shach C.M. 73:39 who disagrees).
While, of course, l’chatchila the litigation should be in a competent bet din if there are three frum Jews on the jury it might be muttar b’diavad as the litigants agreed to be judged by them. Whether a non-frum Jew can count as one of the “shepherds” is another question.
Joseph, who says that the halacha refers to relations between Jews unless otherwise stated? One could say the opposite. Unless it says “???”,”?????” or something similar it refers to everybody.