Avi K

Lesschumras (BTW, it is “fewer chumrot” as each chumra is important by itself), the vast majority of Protestants accept Trinitarianism. Notable exceptions are the various Unitarian denominations, which do not consider Yoshke to be more than a great teacher or prophet. Even some of those smaller denominations that do not are not purely monotheistic and/or accept Yoske as their god.

That is sad, Joseph. Chazal say that one should acquire a friend because he will point out one’s errors. The Tzemach Tzedek (of Lubavitch) said that the Chassidim owed a debt of gratitude to the Gra for keeping them from crossing the line and Rav Kook added that that is the general purpose of opposition.

Joseph, and vice versa.

Wrong again, Joseph. Unless there was another famous rosh yeshiva. Rav Tzvi Yehuda Kook married Chava Leah Hutner , the sister of Rav Yitzchak Hutner. BTW, Rva Hutner wasa talmid of the elder Rav Kook and also had cordial relations wiht Rav Soloveichik and the Lubavitcher rebbe. He also encouraged his talmidim to earn academic degrees. Among them were Rav Aharon Soloveichik (doctorate in Law) and Rav Prof. Israel Kirzner (doctorate in Economics). The latter is both a talmid muvchak of Rav Hutner and the chief student of Ludwig von Mises (who interestingly was an anti-religious Jew and was even buried in a non-denominational cemetery).

Rav Tzvi Yehuda Kook encouraged it in order to build their spiritual connection. Of course, all of the halachot, such as yichud, pertain. He himself learned “Orot” with his fiancee, who was Rav Hutner’s sister.

Abba_S,

1. What does one have to do with the other? People who participate in violent demonstrations are by definition people who do not care about jail. Most likely they have been there before and are looking forward to reuniting with old friends. Recalcitrant husbands are a totally different type.

2. I wrote that some husbands are not fazed by jail. In a way they like it as they get rent-free rooms with heat in the winter and air conditioning in the summer (also free). If they are placed in the “Torani wing” they get three mehadrin meals per day (also free), davening every tefilla with a minyan and learning.

3. That is not the government’s proposal (although it was approved by the Ministerial Legislative Committee, which means that the government is behind it) but a proposal of MK Shuli Mualem (Bayit Yehudi). While her party is a member of the coalition this suggestion is a private bill. This bill has been recommended by the Religious Court System although it actually only affects ten men currently behind bars. While the Committee’s approval means that the AG has approved it I personally have my doubts if it will pass the Bagatz (Supreme Court) as prisoners’ rights to religious freedom are enshrined in law and Court decisions (in one case a court refused to extradite an alleged hit-and-run driver to Florida because eh would not be able to get kosher food without ascertaining if he is actually observant).

The Noahide World Center has published a siddur for Bnei Noach called “Brit Olam”. If you are interested you can check it out on their website.

Chazal say that a wealthy person is someone who is happy with his lot.

Abba, according to what I read most husbands agree after one day. For someone who is otherwise normative it it is such a traumatic experience that there is actually an organization that gives white-collar criminals pre-incarceration counseling. However, there was once someone who stubbornly refused and was imprisoned for over twenty years until he died.

Besalel, the bit about the pigskins is anecdotal and has also been said about the American suppression of the Philippine Moro rebellion over a century ago (and that it worked) as well as the Chechen rebellion and the rebellion in India. Apparently the origin is in a movie called “The Real Glory” starring Gary Cooper.

Joseph, you misquoted the CI. He is talking about a case where they ordered him to take an oath to divorce her and then beat him in order to force him to keep his oath. Even there the CI is uncertain if the gett is pasul.

DY, the NY law only requires judges to take into consideration barriers to remarriage when dividing marital assets. Even has First Amendment questions and also creates questions of ?? ????? as the secular court is, in fact, compelling the gett. See “The Plight of the Agunah: a Study in Halacha,

Contract, and the First Amendment” in the Maryland Law Review (on-line).

Joseph, please cite your sources regarding the power of a bet din. Please also respond to my distinction between compulsion and persuasion (e.g barring him from shul honors).

Akuperma, all Israeli prisons have “Torani wings”. The Dannemora State Prison in Ny has a kosher kitchen run by a convicted murderer. He also blows the shofar for the Jewish prisoners on Rosh HaShana. As for minyanim, I heard of a prison that has two: Aguda and Young Israel.

Joseph,

1. Your assertions regarding 99% of the cases in the news, etc.

2. The SA is talking about compulsion. A bet din has the right and obligation to pasken according to what they consider just. In monetary cases this is called “pashara”. If they pasken that he should give his wife a divorce and he refuses he is in contempt of court and the bet din may take appropriate action.

The question is whether it is good or bad for the Jews. Is the UK a moderating force in the EU’s relationship towards Israel or not?

Actually, slavery in the Torah is demonstrably better than prison. In the former the thief or bankrupt gets to learn how to stand on his own two feet. In the latter he learns how to be a bigger crook. If he is emotionally unable to tolerate freedom he need not commit another crime to go back to servitude. While there was also the eved Kenani, who was not a full Jew, he had many rights, such as Shabbat and Yom Tov. If his master injured him or needed him for a mitzva (e.g. completing a minyan) he went free and became a full Jew.

Mdd,

1. Abarbanel is a Rishon. There is also the statement in the Gemara (Berachot 55a) that a leader must be acceptable to the people. It might even be that they can recall a king (Yerushalmi Horiot 3,2 and Rosh HaShana 1,1 with Korban HaEida and Pnei Moshe there and Responsa Avnei Nezer Yoreh Deah 312,15, Rut Rabba 5,6 but see intro. to “Oneg Yom Tov” )

2. Who says that one cannot argue with Rishonim if he has solid proofs? See http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/arguing-with-rishonim-and-achronim.

3. You still have not answered my questions regarding the kings of Israel, bad kings, Hashmonaim and Herodians. For that matter, why was the leader after the Churban always called the Nasi?

4. How does the Netziv allow a postponement? What if no generation would feel that it needs a king? He does not mention any time limit. In fact, it took 355 years to annoint Shaul.

5. It is outrageous that you dismiss major poskim with a wave of the hand. You must go to their graves and beg forgiveness with bitter tears.

Mdd,

1. Rambam says (Hilchot Melachim 1,7) that only David’s kosher descendants can be king. Does that mean that the kings of Israel were not kings according to Rambam (see Sanhedrin 20b Tosafot d”h melech)? What about Menashe ben Chizkiahu? Rambam also says (ibid, Hlalacha 8) that if a navi appoints someone from a different shevet to be king and he keeps the Torah he is considered the king. Does that mean that the Hashmonaim and the Herodian rulers were not kings? If not, how do you define their government?

2. Abarbanel, the Netziv, Rav Kook and Rav Chaim David HaLevi (“Shilton al pi HaTorah v’haDemokratia”, “Shana b’Shana”, 5758, p.205-213) apparently interpret it differently. I only suggested that according to them the mitzva to appoint a king means a central government and not necessarily a monarch. If you wnat to disagree you can cite opposing sources. However, let us not be neo-Karaites.

Avram, actually according to a recent study most murders are executions. The murderer decided that the victim did something that makes him deserving of death. According to the US DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics “Almost half of the victims died in fights with the offender arising from property disputes, domestic arguments, insults or feuds. An estimated 11 percent were involved with the killer in illegal drug activities and 12 percent were collaborating in other criminal activities with their killer.” The death penalty might well deter all but the suicidal. At any rate, they will never kill again.

Ubiquitin, one can kill even more with explosives. Criminals can get either or make it without any problem.

Mdd, see http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14388&hilite=e7539dd1-d1d6-46fd-8b6d-66a2c821025c&st=%D7%A7%D7%91%D7%95%D7%A5&pgnum=329. Why should there not be l’chatchila and b’diavad in this mitzva? Really, there should be no need for any type of government. Hashem should be King. That is to say, people should keep mitzvot without compulsion. Forming a government is a tacit admission that the people are not capable of that (Shmuel Alef 18,7). If there is to be a government it depends on how far the people have descended. If the situation is not too bad a republican form of government is appropriate – and this was the case in the autonomous medieval kehillot. If it is worse a constitutional monarchy (the king is subject to the limitations of the Torah as expounded by the Sanhedrin and the nevi’im) is needed. However, this is only if there is a someone worthy of the tremendous powers which a king has (Rambam Hilchot Melachim ch. 3, 8-9). As Abarbanel points out, we see what happened immediately after the death of Shlomo. The bad kings brought Am Yisrael down to the three cardinal sins by example.

Mdd, it is a conditional mitzva. Here is the language of the Netziv (He’emek Devar Devarim 17,14):

???, ??? ???? ?? ??? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ??? ????, ??? ‘????? ????? ???’; ???? ???? ????? ??”? ?????? ????? ???! ??? ??, ??? ???? ‘?????’?

?????, ????? ?????? ?????? ?????, ?? ????? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??? ????????, ??? ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?????, ??? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ??????, ???? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?? ????? ???, ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???, ???? ??? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???, ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ???, ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ????????? ??????? ???? ???? ????, ?? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ????? ???.

As for David and his descendants, statistically all of us are probably his descendants. Only cohanim and levi’im are definitely not through a continuous line of males. Moreover, Rambam says that a son only inherits his father’s position if he is like him in yirat Shemayim (Hilchot Melachim 1,7).

Avram, criminals will always find ways to get weapons. They can even make them themselves. Even teen gangs can make zip guns. Moreover, various and sundry implements can be used as weapons for both murder and suicide. This is how Abe Reles became known as “Kid Twist”.

NYC has one of the strictest laws in the world but that never stopped criminals. Israel has gun control but if one lives in an area or considered dangerous, is/was a reserve office in the IDF and has a clean record one can get a permit fairly easily yet the murder rate is very low, especially when factoring out terrorism, underworld hits and “family honor” killings.

America has a huge population so statistically there will be more people who go nuts. Also the mentality regarding violence is very important.

DY, what if she does not want to cross?

Joseph, what is important is that Hashem recognized and continues to recognize it.

The following appears on the Arutz Sheva English site:

For months, the haredi officer charged with integrating religious soldiers into the army has endured an unending barrage of harassment and defamation from radical elements within the community opposed to service in the IDF.

On Wednesday, however, the efforts to force the officer to either abandon his position or leave the haredi community ratcheted up dramatically.

His wife and children discovered the frame of the front door had been damaged, and that the lock of the front door had been glued, rendering it inoperable.

They later discovered black paint splashed on the floor of the apartment building near the entrance of their home.

[paint]

Despite the attack on their home, the family remains determined not to cave in to the pressure.

[of vandals]

AY,

1. There is no such obsession. In fact, this will clear outthe dead wood and turn them into live wood in another framework.

2. If you want to use the Technion example then have the Rabbanut give exams just as the Technion has entrance exams.

3. As for your fallacious example about appreciating talmidei chachamim, if they have not learned this by age 18 then the Chareidi yeshiva system is a complete failure.

4. FYI, there is forced conscription. Moreover, some people want to be forced so that they have an excuse. This, in fact, is what American olim do to avoid losing their US citizenship.

5. What other harangues do you propose?