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My women’s chorus is called Kol Isha!
I have taught a law elective several times in a Bais Yakov high school. Topics in law, constitutional criminal procedure, that kind of thing. Every time I taught it I had a cross section of the school, freshmen to seniors. The girls really enjoy learning concepts and then arguing about how to apply them or what is right.
A public speaking class is also very useful.
As we head into the 2-3 week break between camp and school, I am extremely sympathetic to your problem. While my husband I are now flexible enough to handle these issues, for many years we were not. I suggest a combination of the following:
1) Yes, find non-working friends/relatives who hopefully have kids around the ages of yours, so that it’s more of a playdate than babysitting. Find as many of these as you can so you are not always asking the same person. You know your family/friends, so don’t be shy about asking. Offer to take their kids in exchange on a Sunday or in the evening so they can go out.
2) Develop a relationship with local high school girls. Remember, if there’s a snow day or a half day, they’re off also. If you arrange with them ahead of time to cover on those days, you’re golden. Or, if you have the room and the temperament, consider taking in a boarder who, as part of the arrangement, will be responsible for the kids on those days.
3) Talk to your teacher’s teaching assistants. Most of them are single girls with transportation who might be open to earning a few extra dollars, especially if it’s for a kid they already know (and like!).
4) For slightly older children whom you don’t yet want to leave home, talk to your boss about the possibity of bringing them to work for a few hours and letting them sit in your office watching something on a laptop with headphones. Some bosses do not mind so long as the kids are not running around.
5) If most of your friends work, try arranging a round robbin for those half days. One of you takes a few kids each time – that way you only have to take one day off instead of every one.
I’ve been there, so hang in!! As the kids get older, it really does get easier. Hatzlocha!!
I belong to what some would call the right wing yeshivish world. My kids go to single-sex schools that do not celebrate Yom HaAtzmaut, much less march in the parade. And I am very pleased with the how my kids are taught about Yiddishkeit and to love it.
That being said, I grew up in the MO world where twice a year the Jewish world got together to support a unified cause. The Salute to Israel Day Parade, and Solidarity Sunday, when we rallied in support of Soviet Jewry. I was a marshall every year, collecting signatures, getting people to donate, or write telegrams of support. They were both amazing days that really showed a level of achdus among all stripes of Jews.
It’s very nice to talk about the achdus of the Asifa, but the truht is that the only people represented at the Asifa were people on the far right of the spectrum, both Chassidish and Litvish. And while it was very nice to see achdus in the sense of people getting together on an issue that affects us (regardless of your position), it was not a showing of achdus or love among different types of Jews.
Most of the kids in these right wing schools have little if any exposure to Jews who are less frum than themselves. And while I understand the fears of parents who do not want their children influenced – fears I share – I feel that it is very imprtant for my kids to know that there are all sorts of Jews out there who love and support Israel and are in fact our brothers and sisters.
Yes, there are issues with Medinat Yisrael, as opposed to Eretz Yisroel. But that should not prevent us from joining our fellow Jews and showing our support for the Jewish homeland.
Anyone and everyone is yelling about kiruv and reaching out to unaffiliated Jews. What could be a better way and place to show that we are not so different and that we actually agree on some things? Where is there a better opportunity to make a kiddush Hashem? You don’t like the group marching or what they stand for? Don’t clap for them. Engage their supporters in a respectful diolague. But failure to show up is a missed opportunity, both for ourselves and our children.
I went to Penn Law and I honestly do not see how it is humanly possible to do a JD/MBA there in three years. Maybe if they’re also doing summer sessions, but then you’re not getting work experience which puts you at a disadvantage vis-a-vis other law students.
I will tell you what I tell everyone else who asks about going to law school, and you should know that I loved law school and I enjoy being a lawyer. If you’re going to law school because you really want to be a lawyer, or because you will enjoy law school and have the means to go there and then plan on using the degree in various capacities, then go. But if you’re going to law school because you want a career that will make you a lot of money, then go to Business School instead. It’s a cheaper degree, a much easier degree overall (excluding the three days each term when your group projects are due), and there is a greater likelihood of making serious money.
At my son’s school in Rockland, the boys are invited to a 2-hour block of the bar mitzvah affair, for the dancing. At the beginning of bar mitzvah season the school sends home a contract that the boys have to sign regarding their expected behavior. Among other things they are told to wear a jacket, to make sure to say mazel tov to parents and grandparents, and to listen quietly to speeches, even if they’re in yiddish and they do not understand it – in general, to make sure they make a kidddush Hashem. The reason for the 2-hour limit, as I understand it, is because they have discovered that the boys get too wild after that. Also, if the affair starts at 7 or 8pm, the boys are exhausted the next day(s) if they’re up until midnight.
To be honest, I’m not sure when it stopped, but I’m pretty sure in Hillcrest it went into the early ’80s.
Israel Day Parades and Solidarity Sundays (March for Soviet Jewry) when the entire Jewish world would come out and join together for a common cause.
Pacman, Frogger and Centipede (I’m with the Goq on Atari)
Living in Queens as a teenager and being able to go to Manhattan by yourself by subway to meet friends.
Spending summers (in the late 80’s) working in the Wall Street area and going to lunch concerts in the World Trade Center plaza.
Non-schmutzy movies you could go to, like E.T.
Rolling filberts at shul on yontif afternoons (went to YI of Hillcrest recently for a simcha and the concrete walls were gone!)
Having to work so hard in order to do something you weren’t supposed to, that it wasn’t worth the risk!!!
Forgive me, but I think some people going a little bit too far. It’s one thing to say that your 11 y.o. child should not be roaming the streets of BP/Flatbusg/Lakewood/Monsey (pick your community) at night, but it’s another thing entirely to question why an 11 y.o. was going to throw out the garbage at night in a bungalow colony.
Last night I sent my 12 yo out to put the garbage in the can on the driveway (in Rockland). It was 9pm. Was that wrong?
Yes, we have to protect and educate out children, but we cannot turn them into crazed neurotics, afraid of their own shadows. The way I explain it to my kids is as follows: most people in the world are good, the problem is that we don’t know who the few crazy ones are. Therefore, we are very aware of stranger danger (we frequently discuss what to be careful of and what to do in a given situation).
We need to give our children the tools to cope with life, not completely insulate them from everything only to throw them to the streets (figuratively speaking) to fend for themselves when they’re older and stil completely clueless.
ok, I have 71-80, inclusive
63-70, inclusive.
I am getting ready to send two kids to sleepaway camp for the first time, and I am following the suggested clothing list. The problem I have, however, is the frequency of laundry. The boys camp does laundry every week with a turnaround of two days. The girls camp does it every two weeks (twice during a one month session) awith a turnaround of a few days. That means that to be sure my daughter has clean clothes, I have to send 18 different shirts, pairs of socks, etc… I would be thrilled to send less, but don’t see how to if they clothes will not be cleaned more often.
I guess I’ll find out this summer, but I hope the cubby space is sufficient for what the camps suggest they bring. If not, I’ll have to consider what people here are suggesting – the under bed container.
I have been in similar situations, where you pay by the register and then take a drink later. What I do is hold it in my hand, walk past the register on my way out and say “I got my drink, thanks.”
I think all of you complaining about other people spending too much money on sheitels have a little too much time on your hands. Yes, I think spending $5,000 dollars ona sheitel is a tremendous waste of money – I’ve been married almost 14 years and I haven’t spent that much money on all the sheitels I’ve bought! But, 1) it’s none of my business, the best I can do is try to keep my own priorities in order and teach my children good values – I really don’t care how other people choose to spend their money (unless they’re also getting tuition breaks, but that’s a whole other topic!), and 2) you’re missing the point of a woman covering her hair. It’s not to look unattractive, it’s because once a woman gets married, her hair is something private and special,covered by the halachos of tznius and reserved only for her husband – just like the rest of her body. Nowhere does it say that a woman should not be attractive. While there is a distinct difference between being attractive and attracting when making choices in tznius, the cost of the sheitel is not the issue.
As for the fact that our grandmothers in Europe wore shmatas on their heads, that’s really irrelevant. They also had no plumbing or electricity. Advances in technology can be used to improve our lives and enhance Yiddishkeit, or our appreciation of it.
Again, I’m not advocating buying a ridiculously expensive sheitel, I’m just saying that some of the reasons by people against it seems to be covering something else (pun slightly intended).
It is true that historically Jews have voted democratic, mainly because of social issues. Remember, secular Jews were on the forefront of civil rights. But nowadays, the trend has shifted among frum Jews. I am involved in local politics and can tell you that many more Orthodox Jews are now registering as Republicans. Possibly this is attributable to the Republican family values agenda compared to the Democratic agenda that favors abortion and gay rights. Additionally, Republicans have historically been much better for Israel.
However, I agree that discreet groups that rely heavily on government services, be they at the school district level or higher, will vote for the politicians who will give them what they need.
Law Student:
Where do you live? Just about every government office, like the DA’s office or Corporation Counsel, has unpaid internships. Find someone who works in the office in your county who will walk your resume up.
Homeowner:
I did appear before him, but never tried a case in front of him. Did you overlap with Bongiorno?
Homeowner:
I was in the Bronx DA’s office for seven years, and also spent two years in the Rockland DA’s office.
I graduated from Penn Law fifteen years ago and initially had trouble getting a job for the opposite reason. Everyone was getting jobs in the private sector but I wanted to go into the public sector, and Penn’s career guidance was not particularly helplful there. I ended up in the DA’s office, and have spent the last 15 years in various government offices. I work normal hours, have fabulous vacation and benefits, but not a comparatively high salary.
The question is why do you want to go to law school. I agree with everyone who said you should not go if your goal is simply to make money. There is simply no guarantee of a high paying job. Also factured in to the equation is whether you have to take out loans for school. If so, it’s even less worth it. However, if your parents can put you through with minimal or no loans, it certainly makes the decision to go easier if it’s something you really want to do. I went to law school because I knew I would love law school (my brother went before me), not because I really wanted to be a lawyer at the time.
Coming from Penn, I always said that if you want to make money, go for an MBA. It’s a cheaper degree and an easier degree. (Sorry all you MBA’s out there, but I spent three years watching the Wharton students drink, network, and maybe stay up all night every few months when their projects were due.) Plus, if you can get an entry-level job at a company now, many companies will pay for an MBA if you agree to work for them for a few years. At least that’s the way it used to be. In this economy, I can’t say.
You’re right that MBA’s can have trouble finding a job also. Everyone today is having trouble. But every bit of education gives you more practical knowledge and can make you more marketable. That gives you a leg up on the competition.
Good luck!
Bumper sticker I saw coming home from college twenty years ago:
Get really stoned, drink wet cement!
I laughed the whole way home.
Apashutayid:
“I wonder if there are not many frum female lawyers because none of the frum degree factories have figured out a way to get you a law degree in 18 months, or less, 3 nights a week.”
I don’t think that’s the main reason. I’m not sure (not my area), but I believe that girls who go into PT/OT/speech/PA, etc., still need to complete their Masters at a properly accredited institution. The same for lawyers. It’s just the BA that they can get quickly. I don’t believe the “frum factories” can get you a MA in one of the scientific fields, although I could be wrong.
Sacrilege:
You are 100% correct that not every lawyer in a firm wants to make partner. Regardless, assuming that the lawyer’s spouse is also working a job that requires him to get home after 7, it is very difficult to run a family that way. It works while you are single or without kids, but not so well afterwards. I went part-time for several years so that I could be home when the kids got home from school. That’s easier to do in the public sector than in the private world. I am full-time now, but I work locally and get home by 4:30 to take the kids off the bus.
And, based on your posts that I’ve ready in different threads, I’m not shocked that you’re a lawyer!
I have been following CR threads that I find interesting for quite a while now, but this is the first time I am posting. As a frum, female lawyer, I feel uniquely qualified to speak on this issue.
I agree with many of the reasons offered to explain why “overeducated” frum women marry later and have fewer children, and I think this applies particularly to female lawyers.
1. It is generally true (although obviously not always) that frum female lawyers tend to come from more MO circles. I myself come from a totally NYC-style MO background, including coed schools and sleep-away camps. I went to a HS that stressed going to ivy league college and becoming a professional in some capacity. (Ironically, it was during law school that I began moving to the right and became simply “orthodox.”). We usually were not raised in families of more than 3-4 children, and thought more was excessive. Additionally, there was no pressure to start dating at 18-19 and get married by 21 at the latest. I know that I was completely not ready to get married at that age – I was still enjoying getting my 4-year college degree! I myself did not get married until I was 27, and I felt very little pressure the way girls today in the more yeshivish world do. In the MO world, there were plenty of singles and singles events. (I am absolutely not advocating that path, I am merely explaining why it wasn’t hard to be single even though by yeshivish standards I was an “old maid.”).
2. I also agree that many guys do not want to seriously date and marry women who are smarter than they are. Personally, I had multiple issues. I was in an Ivy League law school, was 5’8″, and was very athletic and outgoing. I was a total hit at the singles’ weekends, but guys just were not happy when I beat them at pool on a date! (That’s what we often did on frum dates “back in the day”). It takes an extremely secure guy with very healthy self esteem to be able to handle that, and B’H I found one such man!
3. I find the comment that women who go into OT/PT do not have the same shidduch troubles fascinating. I think that is probably true, although I’m not really sure why. I have several theories. One, as Sacrilege noted, PT/OT are accepted fields for frum women. I think that may be because women in those fields are more likely to work in the frum community and/or work with kids. They also are more likely to be able to set their own schedules, which makes them more family friendly. They are much less likely to be dealing with men on a regular basis, although of course many do to somoe extent. Lawyers, on the other hand, work very long hours (unless they are in the public sector as I am) and are constantly interacting with men. Two, I think a legal education differs from OT/PT/speech in one very important way. OT/PT/speech is a very specific type of education – you learn the science of a particular therapy and you apply it while working. Law school, on the other hand, provides a very different type of education. For the most part, you learn how to think, write, talk and argue like a lawyer. These attributes are not confined to your work life – they spill over into all aspects of your life and relationships. (You should hear me cross-examine my kids when something happens!). These attributes may not be particularly desirable to many men who are seeking a milder type of personality in their wives.
3. As for the comment that women in law school simply do not have time in law school to date, or are too tired, I disagree. I found the time to do many other things while in law school. However, if you go to any grad school out of a major frum area, it does severely limit your dating opportunities.
Thank you all for listening to my extended thoughts. I would be very interested to hear what you think.