assurnet

Additionally let’s look at the scoreboard here – we left the Sinai and today it’s full of ISIS and Al Qeida that even Egypt can’t control bent on destroying us. We left Southern Lebanon and it’s now full of Hezbolla that the Lebanese army could never dream of controlling, also bent on destroying us. We left Gaza and now it’s full of Hamas and Jihad Islami that we can’t control, yes – bent on destroying us. See the pattern here with every time we cede territory? Now some would suggest to give up Yehuda and Shomron, where we have more of a biblical connection to than Gush Dan so that the next group of Jihadists will be in spitting distance of the airport?

Who says that if we annex we need to give them all citizenship? Japan only offers citizenship to ethnic Japanese, all others can only get some sort of residency, and nobody is calling them racist for doing so. Let’s off them the chance to leave, and if they want to stay they can have full personal rights (we can’t rob or kill them) but minus national rights (can’t vote or run for government, etc). Many will threaten sanctions but anyway we have started developing strong economic relationships with the east such as India and China, and they are FAR more interested in what kind of military or high tech advantages we have to offer them than any boycott on behalf of a bunch of murderous terrorists.

Joseph – your saying G-d forbid 5 to 6 million could die here in Israel but that until now remains hypothetical. I’m talking about 6 million that actually DID die in Europe. So when we are discussing risks based on actual events and actual numbers mathematically you would have to conclude it’s several tens of times more dangerous in the last century to live in Europe than in the land of Israel.

I think your issue is your hung up on zionism and can’t separate it from living in the actual land which is ironically the same as most arabs and other israel haters today. I’m by no means a zionist but I love living in Eretz Yisrael because Hashem gave it to me not hertzl or ben gurion. Despite their deepest intentions, within the state they created the charedi community is growing by leaps and bounds and the non-charedi community is now starting to shift much more heavily to traditional if not dati. I personally tolerate the government with no small amount of distaste as a necessary evil much like I would the federal government if I were living back in the states (as a great deal of goyim there probably do as well).

Do some chazara in Tanach. See how giant amounts of Jews were taken out in wars r”l throughout shoftim and melachim. Often the government then not only wasn’t frum – they were into avoda zara. Yet the only time I can recall people leaving the land because they didn’t feel it was safe was after the murder of Gedalia ben Achikam, and that fact was viewed as so tragic that we have a fast day until today commemorating it. You can try to argue that maybe it’s a suffek whether or not it’s a mitzvah to live in eretz Yisrael today but can you argue that there is even the chance of maybe a suffek of a mitzvah in living in New York?

It really amuses me people sit in America and fret over the matzav of us poor nebachs in Eretz Yisrael. Even if G-d forbid Iran were to nuke us, don’t you think America would be the next target 2 seconds later? As Bibi has stated – they don’t need ICBMs to hit Israel, those bad boys are for reaching America. Plus there have been documented incidents of Mexican drug cartels working with Hezbollah, Iran’s Lebanese proxy. They don’t even need to shoot it over, they can just shlep it across the border amongst the several hundreds-thousands of illegals Obama lets over every day.

Whoever said Israel’s economy stinkss because the rate is roughly 4 shekels to the dollar doesn’t understand the significance of exchange rates. Japan has the 3rd largest economy in the world and the Yen trades at over 100 to the dollar.

The Rebbe miSatmar himself lived in Eretz Yisrael for a while after the war and at one point was considering making permanent aliyah but decided to go back to the states due to the responsibility he felt to his large amount of chassidim still living in America (as per an English biography I have on him).

B’kitzur, I can’t stand the government but I love living in this land and raising my children here (especially not having to dole out $10,000 or more per kid annually in school fees). If G-d forbid it all goes away in one big nuclear flash then that’s Hashem’s cheshbon, not mine. At least I’ll have died living the life I love without fear and get a free ticket to olam haba dying al kiddush Hashem.

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Though I’m not part of a major chassidus or group, my family and I definitely live a Charedi lifestyle, send our kids to Charedi schools, and follow Charedi poskim. That being said, as a full time worker I feel like the Charedi parties don’t represent me at all. They only seem to be looking out for the avreichim, which I am very supportive of, however unfortunately that leaves people like me out in the cold. Why shouldn’t I have a representative looking out for what’s important for me while promoting Torah just because I don’t learn full time? No offence to the Motzeit, but I think the Shas commercial with Deri campaigning the promise to take all the money away from the people who actually earn it and give it to whoever he thins deserves it more is disgusting. The Torah mandates that I give 10% minimum and 20% max to those in need. Since when is it a Torah value for somebody to decide someone else has “too much money” and can appoint himself judge of who deserves it better as if Hashem made a mistake and sent it to the wrong address. Why not promote people being able to lift themselves up out of their situation through emuna and hishtadlus instead of constantly scheming how to get a bigger slice of somebody else’s pie?

Mods please excuse me – I’m going to attempt to describe this as politely and non-graphically as possible while sticking to the truth.

I didn’t serve but I was required to pay a few visits to Lishkat haGeyus before they decided apparently they weren’t interested in me (oleh married with a kid already). However I can speak from my “time” served in the various offices and waiting rooms there. I saw a lot of hormonal teen soldier boys and girls flirting and hanging off each other. The girls’ desks were plastered with pictures of themselves and their girlfriends at the beach (with beach appropriate swimwear) and the guys desks were covered in hand drawn sketches of ladies wearing somewhat less than beach appropriate wear (or lack thereof). How am I to believe the bases are a kosher and tznius environment when that is what greets you before you’ve even signed up? FYI this was in Yerushalayim Ir hakodesh where 90% of the other guys showing up for tzav rishon were charedi/chashidish bochrim, not Afula or something.

PulsingFlower – you seem to have an emphasis on the Parsim but just to clarify from your original post Rav Ovadia was Iraqi, not Parsi. Don’t mix up the two when you are talking to one or you might not get a happy response :p

Aside from halachic issues of whether you can change or not, take into account whether you live in Israel or Chu’l. In many places in America, and probably any Anglo country or even Anglo communities in Israel it’s easier to fit in if your Ashkenazi. In general it’s more easy to follow the sephardi derech in Israel, especially Pesach time. Also their shuls tend to be much more mosaic from what I’ve seen (guy in black hat next to guy in jeans and tiny kippah he just put on before he walked in as compared to everyone the exact same). Sephardim tend to be more informal and passionate, but can also be more hot tempered. My family is mainly a European background (with some Indian thrown in) and we’re not converts but long story short my father didn’t have a set mesorah and when I did teshuva I went sefardi. I’ve got blue eyes so people make fun of me sometimes but I’ve never looked back.

I’m not telling you this as a BY teacher or a Rav or something, but as somebody who has been there themselves -I listened to rap from when I was a little kid for like 15 years. It’s like a drug. You may be very desensitized but every now and then I listen to some rap after not having heard it for a long time and I feel really dirty afterwards. It’s not a guilty feeling like, “Oh no! I’m going to burn!” It’s more a feeling like I just dipped my neshama in the toilet. And I can tell you I actually still like rap music and find some of the lyrics to be really deep and applicable to my life! Even though I still to this day find those good points in rap, something deep in my soul just feels grossed out with it, but it took weaning myself off of it and a lot of growing closer to Hashem.

Vouge – hashkafa is an artificial system that drags us away from the tachlis of life. Instead of worrying which hashkafa you fit into, or what demands different ones make of you, focus instead of what the actual halacha is and where you are holding (as well as were you want your life to go) within the bounds of HALACHA. When looking for your husband try to find somebody who best matches that. You may have a perfect picture in your mind of exactly how your home will look once your married but you’d be shocked how much more you (and your husband) will find yourselves and develop in ways you’d never expect after the wedding (whether to the right, left, or both). The (Jewish) world is the way it is and neither you nor I are going to change it any time soon so just life as best you can according to real halacha, try to connect to Hashem as best you can in life and ignore all the rest – it will only make you frustrated/bitter.

This is the way I heard the story – there was a Jewish village somewhere in central Asia I believe and there was an anti-semetic christian priest who was trying to turn the local king against the Jews. He was a ba’al kishuf and was able to kill people by just looking at them so everyone was afraid to confront him. The Jews knew that on the other side of the river were remnants from the lost 10 tribes and figured there would be somebody there who knew how to overcome the black magic so they had to send somebody there to contact them and they gave a psak that he could cross the river on Shabbat as it was pikuach nefesh but he wouldn’t be able to cross back again since it was no longer pikuach nefesh. Since he would permanently be on the other side he gave a get to his wife before leaving.

Many don’t take internet and video game addictions seriously but they are for sure a real addiction like any other and often a professional and experienced therapist can help you out.

In the meantime, the fact you are alive right now means Hashem has a purpose for you so don’t sell yourself short and don’t sell Hashem’s master plan short either. You obviously are feeling in a deep pit but don’t try to pull yourself all the way out all at once – it’s too overwhelming. Just focus on doing some little positive thing every day and build on that like you would build a muscle. Over time it will snowball into a lot of growth and success but you NEED patience! Trust me. Also try reading the sefer “Meshivat Nafesh.” It can totally change your life and you can even just learn 5 minutes of it a day (still have plenty of time left to websurf :p ) B’hatzlacha tzaddik, you’re gonna get through this

The Little I Know – The Baal Shem haKadosh was said to be able to send his neshama to the olam ha’atzilut and back at will. I highly doubt he wouldn’t have been aware of any negative effects of smoking simply because the scientists of the time were ignorant of it. It could very well be that because he was truly smoking l’shem shamayim and not just for his physical pleasure, it wasn’t mazik him. There was a story of Rebbe Nachman that he used to smoke his pipe with certain kavanot in order to achieve the spiritual aspects of the ketoret in lieu of having an actual Beit HaMikdash so I would have to assume his great grandfather the Besht was doing so as well.

In more recent times there were tzaddikim like Rav Kaduri who was a very heavy smoker but lived past 100. He once asked one of his students to pick him up a pack of his brand of cigarettes (I forget which ones he particularly smoked) but the student brought back another brand claiming the one he requested had run out at the store. Rav Kaduri refused to smoke them and told him something to the effect of, “It doesn’t make a difference for you which brand it is because when you smoke you’re simply having a cigarette. It makes a difference for me because when I’m smoking I’m doing something much higher.” That wasn’t his quote word for word but that’s the gist of the story. So obviously he had secret spiritual intentions when he smoked and I’m not sure, but it could be possible that his long life shows that the physical effects of smoking didn’t hurt his body because of that. Just a thought. Additionally – the tobacco the Baal Shem Tov was smoking (I’m pretty sure I’ve heard it b’ferush that it was tobacco and not weed or anything else) was probably a lot less dangerous for your health than is the tobacco in modern day cigarettes as these days they add in a tons of nasty extra chemicals (including an ingredient from rat poison!)

WIAN – That’s a cute drasha about sinat chinam but halachikly speaking there is most certainly room to classify homosexual relations as one of the biggest issurim. There are only three categories of sin that one is obligated to give up their life rather than commit and sinat chinam ain’t one of them. However arayot is. And of the list of arayot, homosexual relations is one of the most chamur because it is not even a sin most normal people want to partake in. The gemera (Gittin I believe) says that a slave ship was taking Jewish boys and girls back to Rome for forced prostitution and the girls all jumped off the ship and drowned themselves rather than suffer that fate. The boys then made a kal v’chomer and said that if the girls gave their life rather than commit a sin that is natural, how much more so should we give our lives rather than do a sin that is unnatural and they all drowned themselves as well.

As far as the dor hamabul – learn up your Chazal. Despite the sinfulness of the generation Hashem didn’t decree destruction on them until they legally sanctioned homosexual and beastial marriages. The theft between them is simply what sealed the deal but gay and animal marriage is what brought about the decree itself.

You don’t need to take it upon yourself to convince anyone whether gay marriage is moral or how Hashem feels about it – He has already done that for us quite explicitly in the Torah. What I can’t figure out is how there is even a sheila?

You are correct that things such as dishonesty in business are reprehensible. The reason nobody organizes protests against it is that it’s not practical to make a protest for every sin in the world. And so to we don’t make protests against homosexuality – have you ever in your life heard of a Jewish protest against people stam being gay? Nobody is suggesting that. This thread started in the first place because people are rising up and trying to get the government to legally sanction this sin and state that the government as mandated democractially by the people think that it’s ok. THAT is what the protest was being suggested about. Not that there are gay people, but that they want the government to officially state it’s acceptable and that just as they are advocating their rights to further their morality and cause, we as Torah Jews should also use that same right to stand up and voice our objection.

Let’s take your example – sleazy business. It happens and we don’t organize protests because it’s somewhat just an unfortunate part of life. However, were a group of people to actually have the gumption to petition the government to make sleazy business legal wouldn’t it also be appropriate for Torah Jews to stand up and oppose such legislation?

You seem to have a problem with what you perceive as judging other people. I agree with you – it’s not necessarily our place to judge them. Thank G-d I’m not gay but that’s not to say I don’t have my own personal truckload full of aveirot and yeter haras do deal with. Therefore it’s not mine, or any other person’s place to judge somebody for what must be an unthinkably hard challenge to overcome. But that isn’t what’s being discussed. What we are discussing isn’t the individual’s actions but society itself taking something that is wrong and trying to say its right – especially when we have a chance to voice our opinion and disagree. It’s one thing to say that we all have our own challenges and yetzer hara to deal with and if somebody fell into something I’m not going to judge him because that is his personal test from Hashem. It is something else entirely to take an act blatently prohibited and despised by Hashem and try to say it’s now fine and dandy.

Karagnostic – homosexual relations are explicitly forbidden to gentiles. See Rambam Hilchot Melachim uMilchamot 9:5. If I’m not mistaken they could possibly even be chayav mitah.

Also check out Rashi on Bereshit 6:2, and the Meam Loez towards the end of Bereshit and his discussion of Sodom in Vayeira. Keep in mind these sources are discussing non-Jews.

writersoul – it doesn’t make a difference if the majority of society accepts this as ok or that there isn’t much chance of being able to make a difference. That’s the whole point of hishtadlus – you do whatever is in your ability and you leave the rest up to Hashem. It’s not ok to say, “the economy is in a slump with record levels of unemployment and parnassa is just too hard so I’m going to give up.” You have to do whatever hishtadlus you can to make a living in addition to then trusting Hashem will provide you with whatever is fitting. Even if the job market stinks you still have to write up a resume and at least give it a try. Here too – Hashem has granted you the hishtadlus options of voting and using your right to free speech to try and influence the public. Even though the odds are slim in your favor and it’s up to Hashem at the end of the day, why not at least do what you can seeing as He has given you a chance? Nobody is expecting you to start up a one man revolution but at least do something.

This is perhaps the underlying point I was trying to get across in my comment but perhaps I should have just come out and said it m’furash: people have the opportunity to take some sort of steps hishtadlus-wise but they don’t. They instead make the claims that either it’s not really so bad (or even bad at all) or there’s no point to trying to do anything. However this is entirely untrue, it IS that bad and you DO have the chance to do SOMETHING even if you don’t have a great chance of succeeding. However people lie to themselves because it is much more comfortable than facing the truth that Hashem put something in the Torah and I could frankly care less about it. Perhaps this isn’t the case with everyone but I have a strong feeling it applies to many if not most.

what’s in a name – nobody is advocating going in to people’s private bedrooms and monitoring what goes on there… don’t be ridiculous. What we are speaking about here is the government legally sanctioning a type of public relationship which inherently implies societal acceptance if not approval. As a member of that society with a chance to put in your two cents, by choosing to go with the flow you are using your voice to support such behavior. You yourself have expressed you don’t understand why some people feel it is so important but the fact of the matter is the Torah is very clear on this issue – you don’t have a problem with the opinions of some frum Jews, you have a problem with the Torah.

To anyone questioning the fixed calender issue, two points –

1) They pointed out to us in Yeshiva once that in places like the Soviet Union where Judaism was illegal and the majority of it eradicated, it was actually extremely difficult if not impossible to get a copy of that years calendar. In such a case there could be a real suffik as to when Yom tov is supposed to occur, so while it is somewhat difficult for us to conceive of, these type of problems do still occur from time to time in the modern era.

2) I don’t know the source off hand but if anyone is interested let me know and I will find out for you, but it’s brought that a deeper reason for 2nd day Yom Tov in Chu”l is that the kedusha of Eretz Yisrael is so much higher than everywhere else that what you can accomplish in 1 day there takes at least 2 days in any other place (which is def a big encouragement to move here if you ask me)

As far as an extra yom tov being a burden, having experience both, I can tell you 1 day yom tov is much more enjoyable. I love all the chagim and G-d forbid I don’t think it’s a burden at all, but I know on my wife’s end of things it is a lot tougher cooking and preparing for 2, and especially 3, days of yom tov than just 1 at a time. Plus while I’m at shul all day she is supposed to keep the kids from tearing the house apart for 3 days straight all by herself? Maybe you want to start telling me the mailos of mesirus nefesh for the chagim but you know what? Hashem made us basar v’dam, not malachim. There’s nothing wrong with doing what is required of you from the halacha and being happy with that… it doesn’t mean that you think the mitzvot are some burden you deep down wish you could get rid of. It just makes you a normal person. Also on the husband’s side of things, being in shul for longer amounts of time and mandatory seudot, while great, do take time. While I personally tried to invest a lot of effort into the davening and extra mitzvot of sukkot this year (and I have no regrets on that whatsover) on the other hand it did leave me fairly behind on my normal learning sedarim which I’m now left playing catchup to. What I’m trying to say is there is a lot to take into the cheshbon, it’s not so simple as just telling somebody, “you either like yom tov or you don’t.”

Additionally, in Israel most business and other things are closed down on Fridays so it has a chol hamoed feel to it anyway. And for anyone who wants to counter that in some places everything stays open and busy on Fridays, you wouldn’t be living in a neighborhood like that anyway so what are you complaining about?

Lastly, what is with bringing this whole thing about “chilonim hate us” or “I’d love to live in Israel but it’s just not religious enough for me.” Is good old red white and blue America really THAT much more Heimish than “secular” Israel? True there are non-religious Jews here who don’t like us but the vast majority don’t and it’s seriously just not an issue in your day to day life here unless you go around looking for it to be. Besides, even if some of us disagree with each other, we’re all still Yiddin at the end of the day. I guess you just enjoy the feeling of brotherhood you get to share with the American goyim better than that eh?

Pantera isn’t Jewish but I’m willing to go out on a limb and assume their agent is

lakewood001 – “when there was an eclipse everyone would think it was a sign they did something wrong and/or be afraid that God put out the sun and they had to pray to get it to come back out. Later it was discovered that Eclipses occur due to the laws of nature, are predictable, and have nothing to do with what human beings do or don’t do.”

Actually the Gemara in Sukkot discusses different human actions that bring about eclipses… I’m not quite sure I would describe Chazal as “arbitrary.” And as a disclaimer, just because we can now map the schedule of such astrological events in advance isn’t a stirah to the Gemara… if we don’t see how the two both work together the lacking is in our brains.