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You can try combing his hair with vinegar. But you should check every day anyway, you might have missed something. Change his yarmulka to a new one just in case, and tell him not to get too close to anyone.
NO! If you have wine for kiddush, do what you normally would do and offer a little kiddush wine then take the bottle off the table.
Personally I don’t care what he does. I am NOT a fan!
It has nothing to do with age and everything to do with the couple in question.
I never accepted his music and never accepted his style or concept. I always felt he was “high” on the fame and not on the spirituality. That was my personal opinion and just stayed away from anything having to do with him. Heard one song at a HASC or OHEL concert and then he sang another and I walked out. I was just extremely turned off by him. Never connected to him or what he considered his message, for me it did not compute.
Goq, I am not saying he wasn’t aware. Everyone was aware. Clinton was aware. But the variables have changed. There were many people willing to go to bat for Pollard 20 years ago but Pollard himself wasn’t willing to do what was asked of him. He changed, the variables changed, his supporters changed. That is all I am saying. Of course I am not a supporter of Obama. I have NOT made a secret of that. But as variables change so do the reasons why a person should be shown mercy. The president whoever he is needs to take that into consideration no matter what his Vice President says. OK? Are we clear on that? What has the president done for any Jew or for the state of Israel.
Have you read Michael Savage’s comments today? Do you get his point? Why did the president make a chanuka party two weeks before Chanuka? What was so inconvenient about celebrating Chanuka on any one of its eight nights? What was that comment about the whiskered people? Come on, lets NOT bend over backwards to make him look fair or good. That would only make us look like fools.
I am not discussing which president was more considerate to Pollard’s plight. I am however pointing out the difference in the movement and the difference in Pollard’s situation between to two Presidential terms. You can’t say that under the same circumstances and pressure that Bush would not have chosen clemency. Bush was on different terms with Israel and with congressional leaders. Under the same circumstances and the same pressure, it is more likely that he would have accommodated the requests.
always, if your ob/gyn felt that you needed therapy and intervention from a mental health professional then they were more qualified than you to make that decision and also to decide if you needed the meds and when you should go off of them. Obviously the patient is NOT the best person to make the judgement call.
BTW, Insurance companies have taken a stronger hold on prescription drugs and what they will and won’t pay for. Many very necessary and helpful drugs are no longer on Insurance formularies and doctors really have to fight hard to get these medications for their patients. They don’t do this because they get a kickback from the drug companies. They do this because their patients are suffering.
There was always a movement but Pollard himself was not always involved. In addition, a lot has changed in three years. The Israeli government has been making requests on his behalf, congressman are making requests on his behalf and like I mentioned earlier his father was ill and dying and then died and humanitarian requests were made because of that. Humanitarian requests were made because of his own declining health. That didn’t happen under Bush.
always, or maybe you need another psychiatrist. The good ones don’t give you these meds without making sure you see a therapist as well. They have no intention of covering up your issues with medication, they do however intend to “help” you work through your issues hand in hand with a therapist. Unless there is a chemical imbalance in your brain where you NEED medication to function at a normal level, the medication a doctor will give you to help you cope is only a temporary fix while you work with a therapist to deal with your issues. If your Psychiatrist is new to you, why would you just assume that it is OK to take meds without discussing it with your MD or GYN or the doctor you trust the most?
How did you get your psychiatrist? Did you get her by recommendation or did you just get her from your insurance company? If you read the flyer that came with every medication you would never, ever take anything. Every single medication seems deadly if you read the warnings. Furthermore just because you had a bad experience that doesn’t mean that everyone will have the same experience. So those who really need these medications should not be swayed by what you are saying and should discuss their medications with their health care providers. Every single person’s case is different and needs to be dealt with on an individual basis. You can’t lump them all together.
I am not sure, but Pollard himself was NOT requesting pardons as he is today and his health wasn’t failing as it is today, nor was his father dying. A lot of variables has changed over the years. So asking what happened in the past is not really appropriate. There has NOT been the same push or the same amount of media and political requests coming through in the past to any other president as has come through to this one. Can anyone say that you can weigh all the variables and they all match up?
I would think any candidate with a heart would as well. It is only Obama who and his hard hearted cronies who have ignored the broken Jewish hearts.
For all you arm chair psychiatrists, please don’t lump all issues under one category “depression”. There are many issues that women are afflicted with ranging from stress, anxiety, panic attacks to full blown depression.
In addition, without knowing what is happening behind the closed doors of each individual family how dare you make choizek, judge or even comment about what even one women needs to do to cope with whatever she has to juggle. Aside from her own chemical and hormonal balance, there can be many variables that come into play including spouse, parents, in-laws, children, siblings, in-law siblings, job, neighbors, finances, community, health, weight, self-esteem, self-confidence, LACK OF SLEEP, etc., etc, ….need I go on? There are many reasons why a doctor will prescribe something to take the edge off and help a patient cope. And there are many reasons why a patient would be stressed, anxious find themselves falling into panic attacks or even falling into depression.
mdd, just because you keep repeating it that doesn’t make you right. I completely disagree with you. It was loshon horah and they should have guarded their tongues! Just because it was a tznius issue it was no different than speaking about whether they liked her hair or shoes or anything else about her.
Welburtrin, xanax, ……….
OK, what about those women who heard the two yentas speaking about NOT to the OP and then speaking about how improper it was for the original two to speak loshon horah about her? Where does it end? Were they speaking loshon horah or were they giving tochecha on loshon horah? It is very possible and it is possible that the chain continued. So the buck stops at the yentas who felt it was necessary to discuss it in the first place.
There are “fake” look alike rings that are not pierced. Any frum woman that does this will soon stop. It is very painful to remove and reinsert. Many young girls who had done that before marriage quickly changed their minds when they had to remove and reinsert on a monthly basis.
the first thing to do when you are offered such a position is to acknowledge where it came from and what it means. Then call the local Chabad in that area and find out what the Jewish community is like in that area and the neighboring areas and don’t be a snob about it. Mishaneh makom mishaneh mazal and sometimes moving to a smaller community is a wakeup call.
I think it was Aura Lighting on 59th and New Utrecht. Hatzlocha.
If he is spoiled rotten then the best thing for him is to put him to work. There is a frum man with a lighting store on New Utrecht avenue that gives these type of kids jobs. I am having a senior moment and can’t remember the name. I will get back to you when It comes to me.
I agree with “RC” and really have nothing much to add except to remember that dating is NOT a game and needs to be taken seriously. Both parties have to respect the other and take their feelings into consideration. How would he and his mother feel if they made all the arrangements and bought the tickets and 2 hours before the flight SHE called it off? Once you set up a date you go through it like a mench and see where it takes you. If you can’t be mentchelech about that, then the least you can do is man up and make the phone call to break it off yourself.
Actually, I would like to thank the Moderators for allowing a very sensitive but important topic to be discussed even though it was not easy for them to make that call and did not allow it in the past. I truly wish to show Hakaros Hatov to all. Thank you.
Miritchka, if a child got up to go to the bathroom, I would say that child had the chair first. If a child got up to go play in another room, I would say you can’t reserve the chair for the whole day. So it would still depend on the circumstances, hence the house rules. So there is a difference if a child left the chair, book, toy or whatever for 5-10 minutes or half hour to an hour.
Here is another little tidbit I just found out. If you take pictures on your cellphone and then email them they can be traced to the location where the photo was taken if your phone has gps capabilities. It is important to go into your setting on the phone and disable the gps for the camera before taking pictures so there is no location information attached to the photo encryption.
Ski, I agree with Sam and Raphael, it was pure loshon horah on that yenta’s part because she was NOT speaking to you directly she was voicing her opinion to someone else so it was not tochacha as a means to help you or correct you. So that is something she needs to work on “Guarding her tongue” as I said earlier.
As far as your friend is concerned. I am not going to agree that it was rechilus because if she was really a good friend I believe she was shocked and angered by the comment and told you out of disappointment and frustration. Had she taken a few minutes to think about how it would hurt you to hear that, she would have “guarded her own tongue” as well.
Speak to Rabbi Wallerstein. He will be very helpful in such a situation. At the very least he can guide you what is the best way to deal with him.
Obviously this child is very hurt. Something happened to him that has caused him so much pain that he wants to rid himself of yiddishkeit. It could be something that happened between him and his parent, or something that happened that his parent either didn’t support him with, or it could be an issue in the home where this parent doesn’t respect the other and that has turned him off. There is a long list of what it could be, but without a doubt this child is hurting badly and Rabbi Wallerstein has much experience in dealing with children in pain.
Ski, I am so sorry that this happened to you and that you are hurt. People don’t think before they speak and most forget that Hashem gave us both teeth and lips to guard our tongues. Just as you are struggling with your issue, many people are struggling with this issue.
Please do not allow other people to hurt you. Their opinions should mean nothing to you. As you said, they don’t know you, they don’t know your struggles or your relationship with your family, so their opinions don’t count. Just as they could care less what you think of them, please don’t care what they think of you. They are NOT people who count in your life. Brush it off and move on.
Having said that, I still want to say that EVERYTHING you said here is appropriate and should be heard loud and clear.
flower, what do YOU think? I would say it depends on what YOUR house rules are. If your children are having issues like these, it would be productive to have a family meeting, discuss these things, and agree on house rules. Then write them down and post them. At the time of the meeting you should also discuss what the consequences are for breaking the rules. In other words, if the child who breaks the rules gets a time out, goes to their room, loses a privilege, etc. You can also discuss things such as “if you see your sibling reading the book or magazine ask if they are done with it” or “if you are reading a book or magazine put a placeholder in so someone else would know that you are not done with it. If there is no place holder in it, then it is up for grabs”.
By discussing these issues with the kids and making house rules, you are discussing the importance of having “Respect” and consideration for one and other. Establishing this in young children at a very early age is important because you are establishing a foundation for respect and consideration for each aspect and relationship of their life.
For instance, if you are sitting on a chair in shul and you get up and walk away not leaving a siddur, sweater, hat or asking anyone sitting next to you to mind your seat because you are coming right back, do you have a right to tell or even ask someone to get up and give “your” seat back to you when or if you return? If you had already established rules in the home this would not be an issue. It would seem rather rude to ask someone to get off a “public” chair in shul unless it is a makom kavuah and everyone knows that is your chair. Basically everyone would have the same right to that chair. So having established the rules of respect and courtesy in home early in childhood, there would be no such issue with that child outside the home as they grow up.
I posted the number for Avi Fishoff, I don’t know why the mods didn’t let it through. Try googling him in flatbush.
Health, I asked someone who was very close to Rivka Finkelstein at the time this is his reply:
1. It is NOT her responsibility to go after the molester. Why? So she should be run out of town like the family who went after Kolko?
There are others in the community including rabbis and powerful people who know who the molester are and who the arsonist are. This poor woman has suffered more than any of us should ever know. And she has the courage to go to the police and the media about her house. The community who knows that there is a molester in their midst AND an arsonist are doing nothing to support her. Reb Mattisyahu Salomon told her “the rabbis could help figure out who the arsonist is, but are keeping it “hush” for now…..”
2. There is no evidence that the arsonist was the molester. She probably did tell the cops who the molester was but she cannot press charges about her son’s molestation because the victim is not alive to testify. Why does she not publicize the molester? Because the community does not want to know. Its very simple. If anybody with some real power or a group of parents who were concerned had EVER asked her who did it to Shua, and offered her real support and most importantly protection from more arsonists, maybe she would tell them. But in a community that treats victims of abuse according to the cruel practices of Sdom, for her to name her son’s molester would be suicide.
3. She was told by rabbanim not to go to the police about the molestation. She was also given that advice by Lakewood therapists. This was when her son was still alive, and the molester could have been prosecuted. In New Jersey ALL people are mandate reporters, not only professionals. After what happened in Penn State University where two college officials are being prosecuted for failure to report, the therapists in Lakewood who hear of molestation cases on a regular basis, and the rabbis, especially of the beis din, who know of many, many child abuse cases and have reported none, are extremely vulnerable to facing prosecution as soon as their little cover up gets exposed.
BTW, did anyone listen to Zev Brenner’s Talkline communications show last night? It was on this subject with guests Rabbi Yosef Blau, Mark Meir Appel, Tzvi Gluck and Dr. Asher Lipner.
Rabbi Blau discussed the inyan of “raglayim l’davar” and how important it is to go to the police among other misconceptions. Please listen to the program it is very informative.
Call Avi Fishoff at Home Sweet Home.
“I still however don’t understand why its okay for the friends and family of the victims to be quiet instead of leaving town.”
Threats could be very far reaching, into a vast network of family, into a vast area of where the Jewish community lives if they move there, in a vast network of yeshivas they can block ALL those children out of, and the biggest threat of all, when someone calls in the future to ask about shidduchim, they will surely call and get a HUGE negative report on the family.
“Why would the Ohel people agree not to report? So lose your job! ” Yes this is something unbelievable. But it is so intertwined. Ohel gets funding and support through Agudah and therefor they won’t rock the boat. They do what they are told. The employees of Ohel also did what they were instructed to do which was to report to their supervisor and that’s it, not to make decisions on their own. The job market is flooded with Social workers and psychologists. People need to make parnasah and it is not so simple as saying, so they will lose their jobs. People are afraid to lose their jobs, people have obligations and responsibilities to their families.
Syag, you can tell by this thread alone, there are those who have the courage to report and get knocked down. There are those who are encouraged and won’t because they are afraid of what will happen to them. If victims knew they had the support behind them, and the molesters would be stopped more people would. That is the feeling that I get from the community of survivors that I know.
Syag, here is part of the problem. If a person, a Rabbi, is protecting someone they know, then that is one specific human being making a choice based on his knowledge – mind, body and soul, to do what he thinks is the right thing to do.
When a group of Rabbonim take upon themselves to protect “many” colleagues who people have come and complained to them about, whether individually or as a group, they are making a “joint” decision based on what they think is best for whatever and however they concluded it should be done. But when the issue keeps growing and the list of people they are protecting keeps growing then the decision they made needs to be reconsidered because the way they handled it obviously wasn’t working.
In addition. When that group of Rabbonim handle that situation that way, it is harmful to the public but still it is manageable depending who went to them with the information. However, when that same group of Rabbonim have unlimited power and authority and they use that to pronounce that THEIR way is the ONLY way and ALL RABBONIM MUST follow their guidelines, then that is a whole other ballgame. Then it blocks any other Rabbi from having another opinion and helping anyone that has the same problem. He is then forced to also protect the guilty.
Take that one step further, when that group of Rabbonim then take it upon themselves to tell Jewish Mandatory Reporters such as an organization like Ohel and their therapists to NOT report to the authorities. THEY are telling ALL these people to break the law and put their parnasah in jeopardy. They are also interfering with justice and the commission of crimes.
Hence the huge problem and the difference of opinions. Where most of us have a problem with the way this issue was handled and is still being handled by the group of Rabbanim and their instructions to the K’lal AND their lack of implementing guidelines and taking actions to prevent this crime from happening and destroying our children, others are just defending their honor and calling us Rabbi Bashers. This attitude of “kill the messenger” is what continues to give them the freedom to continue in this cycle of destruction. The K’lal protects the organization and their Rabbis, they in turn continue to protect the molesters and our kids keep on being the kaporas.
The entire system of learning Torah and Gemora is based on asking questions and getting answers and yet WE as a K’lal do not have the common sense and the where-with-all to ASK questions of our leaders, WE are expected to follow blindly, and gladly comply. Until it came to this issue. When we were forced to open our eyes.
Lets take a look at the Kolko case. Margolis threatened the parents of victims that he would destroy them. That their kids would be kicked out and they would never get into another Yeshiva in Brooklyn. If they didn’t keep quiet they would have to move far away because he would make sure no one believed them. Margolis protected Kolko even though he knew he was putting countless children at risk. Did he watch him? Did he warn the parents, did he even warn Kolko?
This whole story comes out, law suit and all, so he decides to hedge his bets and goes to open another Yeshiva in Lakewood. Did they not hear how he put kids at risk? The community comes out to greet him with open arms and showers him with kovod and can’t wait to enroll their kids in his yeshiva. What is wrong with this picture?
What happened to all the molesters in Lakewood? Where are they now? The Rabbonim took care of them, they handled things very quietly and they made sure that the kids and parents kept quiet too. So where are they now? Where are they living and where are they teaching? Wouldn’t YOU like to know? Me too! I want to make sure they are no where near children, but we will never know. This is how the game is played.
But like Mike said, we are in denial that anyone who calls himself Rabbi can do anything wrong. And we are in denial that anyone that calls themselves Rabbi will lead us down the wrong path. During the Weingarten trial I heard about all these Rabbonim that came to his defense. They didn’t know him from Adam but they were all saying what a Chashuva mentch he was, a Rosh Yeshiva, and so on. So I asked a very logical question. “Does anyone know where he got semicha from?” No one knew. So I then asked, “if he doesn’t have semicha how can he call himself a Rav and then more so a Rosh Yeshiva?” I was then told “you don’t have to be a Rav to open a yeshiva and call yourself the “Rosh”.” I was shocked.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is how blind we are, and this is also how we get fooled and mislead. And this is why we have to ask questions and we have to fight for what’s right. We are losing this war, not a war against Rabbonim. We are losing the war against keeping our children safe and innocent. Our Rabbonim speak of the evils of internet and that is what’s causing our children to go off the derech. They speak of the evils of the computer, the cell phone, and anything else they can think of. But they stay silent about the evils of molestation in the home and in the school, by relatives, by mechanchim, by friends, by strangers but most of all by fellow jews. This is the most dangerous thing to our children and yet they are silent about protecting our children from this evil.
The Ehrliche Yid who follows all the guidelines from the Aguda Rabbonim is still at risk and still puts his children at risk because they are doing nothing to protect his children and grandchildren, nieces and nephews, from this terrible evil. WE are not saying that these Rabbonim are bad people c”v. WE are not saying that they are evil people. WE are saying that they are ignoring this huge sakanah to our children and instead of doing whatever is humanly possible to protect our children they are putting their kochos into protecting the perpetrators, keeping things quiet and silencing and combatting those in the know.
They are NOT only protecting the perpetrators, but it spiraled into a greater issue. They are also protecting their own bottom line and doing whatever they can to avoid lawsuits. They are all nogeah b’davar and if they are found complicent in the cover-up they won’t be covered by insurance should they be sued. The financial loss to the organizations and yeshivas who are involved in harboring the criminals can financially bankrupt them should they be sued and that is the bottom line they are watching.
Health, the truth about what happened to Finkelstein didn’t really come out till after he died and his friends posted some of his writing from his journal on facebook. If I remember correctly his molester was the son of a very prominent and choshuv person in the community and he was silenced and was told NOT to pursue it. After his death, notices were given out throughout the community about Finkelstein and how and why he died before Pesach and hence the fire. The Police Chief told Mrs. Finkelstein if she were smart she would let it go and NOT pursue it.
Health, this is what I remember, I was emailing with her at the time. I can look it up or ask my friend for more details if you want me to. At this point in time, Mrs. Finkelstein has joined the group of Advocates for vicitms.
Wanderingchana, you are absolutely right and I am going to take your advice.
The cheating was the act of looking at the other’s paper, if you didn’t see the answer you were still cheating by looking at the other person’s paper. Had you been caught you would have failed for cheating whether or not you would have seen your neighbor’s answer or not.
I am so sorry to hear that you are still having pain and difficulty, refuah shelaimah. Have you tried a water mattress?
This really is a very tricky situation. It is best to have someone non-biased and very smart to speak to. I would also advise to go to a Rav and discuss with him who passed on the information (not necessarily naming the person) and what was said, so the two of you can decide whether if was true or whether it was said viciously to ruin the shiduch.
Half, please try to remember that you only “think” that others are having an easy ride. You only see what they allow you to see but no one knows what goes on behind closed doors and not everyone wears their hearts on their sleeves. Not everyone talks about their tzoris, many people hide it very well. So just because someone is driving a nice car or has nice jewelry that doesn’t mean that Hashem is not testing them with other things. Just because it seems like someone has an easy life now, that doesn’t mean that it was always easy and they never had any struggles, or that Hashem doesn’t have something planned for them in the future.
You do know how that saying goes, the one my own mother used to say all the time, if everyone would put their pekel on the table, each person would take their own pekel back. Hashem doesn’t give anyone more than they can handle, so be happy that you can and will handle whatever it is Hashem has given to you. Don’t be jealous of others because you really don’t know what their pekel is, you only think you know.
How do you think someone who was once very wealthy and was used to have everything they ever wanted feels or deals with hard times and lose everything they have. Is it harder to not have what others have or to have it and lose it?
zahavasdad, So am I, and that is why I got involved.
Mike, thanks. You believe it because b”h you are using the common sense Hashem gave you, and you have a heart and soul that feels another’s pain instead of being blindly lead by peer pressure and propaganda.
Health, I am not trying to Bash Rabbonim either, I am speaking the truth and trying to effect change. Why is it that threads are started about women who wear this and that, and girls who do this and that, and any other topic people don’t approve of, but if Rabbonim do something wrong, we can’t talk about it, we are “BASHING” Rabbonim if we speak the truth.
Yita, 1) again you assume too much and you are wrong. I never said that the group of Rabbonim are lowlifes, these are words YOU are using and trying to credit to me. I never said that, nor am I Rabbi BASHING, I am saying that they failed in this issue, and failed badly. I am speaking the truth and brining it to your and everyone else’s attention so people stop accepting it as OK, it is absolutely NOT OK.
2) Again you are living in a dream world and making assumptions that YOU can live with. The one question I will answer is one that I have already answered, no I can’t have respect for them until they right this wrong. Do you really want me to list and discuss each member of the Organization and who knows what and who did what according to my information? Should I list who was emailed and who was informed and with whom discussions were held with?
BTW, I am friends with the Novominsk’s daughter, my family members are very close to the Novominsk and are big Agudaniks, I was close to RYH and he still communicates with me, I tried many times to communicate with Zwiebel but he ignored me and refused to answer, we are friendly with Rabbi Gertzulen, my friend has spoken many times to Rabbi Kaminetzky, The bottom line is they are Nogeiah b’davar and they have to protect their own bottom line. They have to protect themselves from law suits and they can’t admit to anything.
Why are you trying to goad me into revealing more and more? As far as knowing people’s sides, the Agudhah’s side is clear, they are keeping quiet, they are saying NOT to go to the police because they have their own agenda. That is clear. The other side is the side of not just my friend but all the other victims as well. My friend, and Joel Engelman who’s molester is still teaching in Satmar yeshiva in wiliamsburg, and another victim who was hit with a double whammy since he was a victim of Kolko and then was sent for therapy to “Monstrowitz” by Ohel, or my friend who was a victim of “Monstrowitz” back in Chicago. What about the young man I met who pretends to be a goy because he was molested in the mikveh in Williamsburg and doesn’t want any part of his past life as a chasiddish Jew, his molester is in middle of trials now and he had the opportunity when he went to support another victim in Brooklyn court to face him. What about my chasidishe friend who was molested by his Rebbe as a kid, but no one believed him. Not his other Rebbeim, not the principal, not his parents. He still has difficulty today in his marriage and he is desperate that this will not happen to his children. His molester still walks the streets happy and proud that he never got caught. This past year he came face to face with him and his rage overtook him. He pounced him and beat the ” ” out of him. I asked if he felt better after that and he said “No, it made me feel like the animal that he is”. Should I go on? Or should I remind you that there are victims right here in the CR who have already mentioned that they were molested and how difficult it has been for them to deal with. Read the book HUSH then ask Judy Brown how many victims have contacted her and how many stories she knows. Call Rabbi Yanky Horowitz and ask him how many stories he knows and how many victims have come to ask him if they should go to the police.
Ask R’ Matisyahu Solomon what is going on in Lakewood and how he hushed it up. Ask Rivka Finkelstein how it came about that her house burned down on Pesach after a notice was spread about her dead son’s molestation. Speak to David Fromowitz who was the first to come forward about Kolko, I did. I went to private conferences on this issue. I was surrounded by victim/survivors and listened to their stories. Did you? They range from chasidishe to totally secular OTD. Male and female, young and old. Each with their own story whether their abuser was a family member or a mechanech. Each one carries the pain and trauma within. Some dealt with it better, some worse. Some were family members of victims who took their own lives or overdosed because of the pain.
How much more do you want from me? Why don’t you ask your friends, the Rabbis you know and trust, ask them why nothing has been done, why nothing has been changed, why nothing has been implemented after all these years, then come back to us and tell us what they said. Do you think this is easy for me????? Do you think this is a game of one-upmanship? Its NOT. It is your choice to believe what you want and to believe in whom you choose to believe in. I have said way more than I had intended to say and that is because of you. I hope you are proud of yourself.
S’yag as far as making sure you don’t have his books, its a matter of putting two and two together. Go back to the other thread to find out which yeshiva we were talking about and then ask the store if they have books written by a Rebbe of that yeshiva who is also on the Vaad of the Agudah and then figure it out. Although he still lives there he has been retired from teaching.
Health you make an excellent point of “nogeah b’davar” and Yita, I was avoiding saying this but you push me too far. The molester that I mentioned in another thread about a certain yeshiva sits on one of the Vaad’s in the Agudah with the other Rabbonim and yes they are all covering for him. His books are published by Artscroll and still being distributed to Judaica stores and are available on the shelves. Nothing has changed since they all found out about him. He is has 100% protection. The Agudah is 100% complicant and Nogeah B’davar.
Yita, you want to show me how much you know, well you have pushed me to show you how much I know. I wasn’t going to disclose this, but you wanted to know everything that I do. You wanted me to verify my information and go head to head with me, you wanted to show me how sure you are, well so am I. The Rav that molested my friend is a big chaver and a member in good standing of the Agudah and sits on one of their Vaad Panels. He never lost one ounce of Kovod and it was never considered to remove him from the Vaad. He has destroyed countless numbers of bochurim. Please tell me in your opinion does he deserve the kovod he is getting? Does he deserve the protection he is getting? My friend had a private meeting with him and his sons who came to beg him not to out him. He has proof of this meeting which I can’t disclose without his permission, but should he choose to make it public it would blow the top off this issue, especially in that particular yeshiva and town, not to mention the Agudah.
Do you get it now, they drove 5 hours to have this meeting with my friend to beg him not to say anything. They didn’t come to beg for mechilah and apologize for all the pain and agony he caused, they came to beg him to keep quiet. That is the nature of the villain.
It is very difficult to decide what to say and what not to say. I am NOT the victim and it is the victim who has the right to OUT the abuser. But all those who self-rightesously believe that advocates are low-lifes who just want to bash rabbonim and refuse to undertand how painful it is to no longer believe in and trust the Rabbonim and the most important orthodox organization that you relied on all your life. What does it feel like to cut off your right arm? Do you know? What does it feel like to remove something in your life that you depended on? Can you stop using your car? Can you stop having running water in your kitchen? Can you stop having heat in your home? Can you give up your bed and sleep on the floor? Do you know how hard it was to have the rug pulled out from under our feet? Do you think this is easy for us? Do you think this is fun? Do you think I like saying these things? Where are the Tzadikim that were MY mentors and the Gedolim of my generation? Who can I trust, who can I turn to? I used to speak to one Rav almost daily because he advocated for kids and victims then he told me about the Agudah Rabbonim and he told me that when push comes to shove he has to stand with the Agudah in public and I had to walk away from him. How do you think that made me feel? After a few years he has changed his mind and now he gives lectures all over telling everyone to go to the police.
A child’s self esteem can be destroyed by others not only by parents. Parents can be a child’s greates fans and they can still have low self-esteem and lack of confidence do to others or various circumstances.
Molesters groom their victims and they choose those who they are pretty sure will either believe them or will be too freightened to tell. It is not only a matter of parents not believing them it is also a matter of being threatened. Many are threatened that their family will be harmed and since they are being harmed they believe what they are told.
msseeker, I am not the one that said “it is part of growing up”. I am NOT male, so I am not one who knew about this in my youth or through my schools. My brother kept it from me, even my kids kept it from me. When I found out about it years ago, I went to my kids and asked them why none of them told me, and I asked my husband why he never said anything to me and they just looked at me and said “Really, you didn’t know?” And my come back was, “If none of you men told me how was I supposed to know”. Obviously they were all well aware and no one informed me!
I asked some of my chasidish women friends and they said “they are terrified that their young boys go to the mikveh, they wish they could stop them”. I was always curious why my boys stopped going to the mikveh and preferred to toivel Erev Yom Tov in the ocean, but I never asked. They said the mikveh was crowded and I left it at that.
Mseeker, there is no way of knowing just how widespread or common this is because the Rabbonim do not allow it to be reported, so the only way of knowing is to hear it from victims. If you go to a conference where vicitms are gathered and you see how many victims show up, you will be shocked. If you heard from Dov Hikind when he got a thousand calls and that was basically from Brooklyn, then there is reason to be shocked. If you heard from people who say they know of a molester who hangs out in a particular shul in Boro Park for decades and no one has chased him out nor reported him to the police you can surely be shocked. If you know from victims that this happens in the mikvas and no one has implemented safe guards in the mikvas you can surely be shocked. When you hear that there are men who hang out in the mikveh for hours what is there to say? When a Rebbe leaves his classroom or recess and sneaks away with only one child, what is there to say. When a Rebbe puts a child on his lap (and we are NOT talking about a 3 year old) and the whole class sees that kid squirming what is there to say. When a Rebbe kisses a 16 year old bochur on the lips, or sneaks into a dorm room at night and touches a sleeping child what is there to say?
Honestly msseeker, maybe YW can start a thread for victims to tell their stories with a disclaimer that these stories are real and painful to read and members should be aware before opening that thread. Victims/survivors need a voice and people such as yourself need to hear the honest truth because it is so hard to understand, and it is so hard to imagine the act itself, who the perps are, how they manage to hide it, and how often and widespread this really is. Also whether it is happening in MO, Yeshivish, Chareidi communities or accross the board and whether this is happening in the home or in the schools or on the streets. Also it is important to hear what these victims and their families were told about reporting their abuse and how it affected them.
It is better that you all hear it first hand from the victims themselves than second hand from myself and other advocates. The best thing would be if a legitimate website would allow the victims to have a voice and be anonymous so that they don’t have to share their shame or reputation or that of their family. In the meantime as I suggested before, please read “HUSH” to just get a small understanding how this can happen, since it is a true story.
Syag Lchochma, I agree! How many of the posters on this thread do you think would attend? I have gone to as many as I was logistically able to attend. And I also helped in giving tips and info for public distribution.
NOT appropriate!
Hey Goq, mazel tov! What’s this I hear about you going to Boca? That’s for old folks, come meet me in Miami! I’m going next week, we can walk the boardwalk together, or stop in at La Shokolad for some gelatto!!! hmmm, did I say that?????? no, no, oh yeah its ok, no fat, low sugar.
mytake, really we can’t. We can only realize that Jews are as human as anyone else and what happens in the outside world happens in our world as well. We are NOT immune. What happens in the Catholic Church has happened among us the same way. The same way the Church, lehavdil, protected their priests and the respect of their religion, so too did our Religious leaders protect their own and the respect of our Religion. There is no monopoly on sickness or evil. However, when it is well known that a certain group can get away with something without consequences or repercussions it becomes a free for all. It becomes a more of a temptation because there is nothing holding one back from giving in to the yetzer horah. They know they have protection, they know they can get away with it, so when the taivah strikes they can easiy wihtout inhabition give in to it. The first time they do, it might be difficult, but when they don’t get caught or they are protected, the second time is easier, and so on.
msseeker, although it is very difficult and heartbreaking to believe this is true, it is true. There was recently a story of a Menahel in Brooklyn who escaped to E”Y with his sons because he and his sons were molesting his own daughters.
I am currently helping a victim who was not only molested as a young child by her own grandfather and father, but grew up to be a victim in her adult life as well.
msseeker, until you are willing to roll up your sleeves and get yourself involved in the parsha by either just listening to understand the victim/survivors or actually doing something to help them, you really won’t truly understand it or even fully be able to believe it completely because it is so unfathomable that this is actually happening or someone should bring themselves down to such a low madreigah and do such a vile act. But once you speak to victims and see the pain that they carry and see how their lives have been altered, there is no turning back. There is no way you can be silent and not do whatever is in your power to protect and defend.
I am pretty close to a Rav in this neighborhood and when I started the organization if founded years ago to combat this, I called him in to join and we were talking about going to the police. He told me his hands were tied by the Agudah. He said his own nephew was molested and he went to HIS rav for help. He said his own hands were tied behind his back and he cried bitter tears. He was told he could do nothing about it and he should remain quiet. This is a prominent Rav in MY neighborhood who has a huge following, he works with teens. He said to me, “can you imagine how helpless I felt? I couldn’t even advocate for and help my own nephew?” He had raglayim l’davar. There was no doubt in his mind that his nephew was telling the truth. He saw the transformation in him, he knew who the perpetrator was and yet he was silenced.
I still consider this Rav my friend, I still hold him in high esteem and high regard. But what do you think this little lesson taught me?
Yita, please explain to the readers here just HOW they are doing their best, and what they have done since they have begun discussing this issue years ago!! I am NOT defaming “innocent” well-meaning Rabbonim, I clearly and concisely relaying facts and placing the truth and a valid inquiry at their very responsible feet. Or to put in more clear terms “holding their feet to the fire”.