aries2756

Smiling is contagious like yawns so watch the simcha chain grow!

One more thing. I wish someone or some group would publish a proper way to let a boy or girl down easily without hurting their feelings when they get a “NO” for an answer. This is probably the hardest thing a person has to do ever, and that is why many people don’t want to get involved.

However, if there was a way to handle it that is universally acceptable and worded appropriately and that parents and kids would accept without taking it personally, more people would work on it. When you have to say “NO” to someone you are always reluctant to call back, so you wait a little then they call you and you try to think of a good response, sometimes fibbing. The truth is just because I think or someone else thinks someone is a good shidduch it certainly doesn’t mean that we are right and that either party will agree. We can only try. So when we have to return a negative answer it is so difficult when the party starts in with “tell me the truth THEY think we are not good enough right? They are looking for money? What’s wrong with my daughter and so on.” Or even worse when a prospect is redt some responses go like “That is who you are proposing for my child? Or sure it wasn’t good enough for so and so that is why you are bringing it to me.”

Honestly, there needs to be a handbook published to be given out at graduation to ALL PARENTS about the etiquette of handling shiducchim. Because someone is turned down it is not a negative on them, the other party has their reasons where they are reasonable or not, but it is their problem or issue if they don’t want to give you a chance. I look at it as “their loss”.

When I redt a shidduch if someone callously tells me “I will put her on my list” I tell them “No thank you, my girls are too good to go on anyone’s list. Put ME on your list and when you are ready call me back. I try not to give the girl’s name unless I see some interest, that way if they give me the stupid “list” answer they have no clue who I am speaking about.

I am happy to receive cards from people who are of some distance and from friends and acquaintances that are really not part of the inner circle. i prefer that they spend their money on tzaddakah than on candy I will give away or throw out.

On the other hand, close family members and close friends show some hakaros hatov to one and other when they offer their shalach manos (a special something) once a year. But it should really be spoken about in shuls and in yeshivas about not getting too carried away either with their shaloch manos or with their list. It isn’t necessary to look for more people to include as you meet more each year. Shuls do a one for all shalach manos which works well, and if you don’t wish to do that, Rabbanim these days should speak about the financial strain people are under so if you are cut from someone’s list don’t be insulted be understanding. I unfortunately am not in a position to make my own Shelach Manos so I purchase from Keren Aniyim and it gets very costly but I keep telling my husband it is tzedaka so stop freaking out we are doing two mitzvos at once.

jphone, of course you are right and that would be and should be the ideal situation in the perfect world. But unfortunately our world is far from perfect and in the attempt to reach heights of perfection we have toppled our existence upside down and inside out to the point of the ridiculous.

Children today are taught to look for things beyond their means and this applies to the concept of learning full time as well. Where one child would want a house another child would want support for the rest of their lives. Neither one has the right to demand that of their parents who have their own financial obligations to their own home and other family members (who will want the same). Each couple starting out in a marriage need to think about and plan how they will support themselves. They need to actually sit down and look at what things cost and see what kind of money needs to come in to cover the money that will be going out.

It is shocking to some, but many couples have a rude awakening when they go out for the first time to buy their own pampers. And for those men who just assume their wive’s will nurse their kids to save on formula, that doesn’t always work either. In addition make sure you are comfortable with second hand clothes and equipment for the children and other cost cutting maneuvers. That of course comes after the rent, car, insurance, gas, food, washer, dryer, etc. that every couple feels they need. Not to mention the furniture, linen and other housewares.

So if you can afford to do it, and have an agreement with someone to help support you for whatever time frame they can, appreciate it and have a good plan for when that support stops. It is not fair to expect parents to work well into their 70’s to keep your family going. JMHO.

EDITED

If you know information on either person in the shidduch and that is bothering you and you want to know whether to say something or not, you need to discuss it with your own Rav. Some things must be told and some things not. In addition, what you might think is so important might not be seen as a very important issue by a learned Rav experienced in shidduchim or life in general. If that is what this is all about, speak to your Rav and be satisfied with his answer. You have done your job by bringing it to the attention of a Rav who knows the halachas involved. Do not say who the people involved are or that may sway the decision just why you feel it is necessary to share the information and ask the sheilah.

If you are talking about your own shidduch then speak to your own Rav or Rosh Yeshiva with your concerns or speak to the known “Chassan Rebbe” of the yeshiva who can help you sort out your thoughts and feelings. You can also seek the counsel of a dating coach.

Sorry that you feel that way but if you are upset about the shidduch discussion you should turn the page or shut the screen. Obviously the discussion is not meant for you. The only way to find solutions is by discussion and by exchanging ideas, comments and experiences. It is unfortunate that some people usurp the threads with an ongoing feud but only the moderators can control that. I choose to skip over the posts that are irritating or take the discussion into another direction. On the other hand I learn from other’s experience and insight.

Young men and women, basically kids, in the shidduch parsha don’t usually have shidduchim redt directly to them rather it is customary to redt the shidduch to the parents. Once a young woman or man have been dating for a long while and have aged up a bit into their early or mid 20’s, then it is appropriate to speak directly to them. Children who are not handling shidduchim on their own usually just give the shadchan their mothers’ number.

Special Ed services which can be given in the realm of the Yeshiva day in the Yeshiva building is usually accommodated and no exceptions need to be made. However, if a child is going for counseling with a social worker or psychologist the best thing is to not add additional stress to the child by causing the child to miss classes, have a need to get notes, find out the homework and catch up. Having a child fall behind will only complicate the situation.

Therapists usually have evening appointments as well as Sunday appointments. So the first thing to do is to ask the Therapist for available hours and see if they can maneuver another client who is not so time oriented to another appointment so your child can have an after school appointment. If that cannot be done, speak to the therapist to decide whether a different school or a different therapist is the right way to go. Believe me, there are a lot more therapists out there than there are yeshivos that a parent can pick for their child. I would not go to the guidance counselor in the yeshiva to help with this situation because they are paid by the Yeshiva and cannot possibly be as non-biased as necessary.

Anuran, and that is why the Torah gives us guidelines and Rabbonim will advise on the side of the kids.

If someone was asked this question I believe her answer should be “because I myself am committed to the “Kollel life. Because I believe in putting aside materialism in favor of spiritualism and I am willing to do with less or without to support my beliefs.”

In addition she should be asked additional questions such as:

How long do think or expect your husband to learn full time?

Who will support your family while he is learning? Have you actually sat down and figured out what a basic no frills or low maintenance budget is? And what is your back-up plan if the finances doesn’t come through?

Tzippi, true, just keep in mind that you are basically walking on stones and cracks which are slippery when wet and not really paved concrete like you are used to at home. So thin heels are really just for decoration and not for walking. Shoes with rubber soles rather than leather soles work better. Shoes with a thicker sole rather than a paper thin sole work better as well.

Please keep in mind that there are a lot of things that can and maybe should be bought in E”Y because they could use the parnasah and YOU are paying extra for additional luggage anyway or being matriach other people to shlep your kids stuff with them. I am not saying this to be rude or negative I am just saying it as a thought.

Also many people forget that E”Y goes through seasons as well and it does get cold there so be prepared for that.

Kids do have access to laundry and they don’t have much room or closet space so you might want to discuss that with your daughter and seminary to see if it pays to send more to do laundry less often or send less and more $$$$$ to do laundry more often. That depends on the seminary and the accommodations.

If the seminary has a uniform/dress code you will have to conform to that and buy clothing accordingly. If not, then you are on your own where that is concerned. Girls should really ask other girls what they used the most and what they brought that they hardly used at all. Such as sneakers and flats. They definitely need more than one pair of each.

A sheilah was asked by my Rav last Pesach and the answer was it was not considered a grain. Maybe because it is something new and not part of shivas haminim.

It is truly unfortunate that people feel they have a “right” to say whatever is on their mind and forget that Hashem gave them a guard “teeth and lips” to stop their tongue.

As far as the blogs go, they feel that their anonymity gives them the right to say whatever they choose and they also forget that Hashem is still above and knows everything. To him they are not anonymous.

Kosher phone also means no internet, no email, etc. It is just a phone. Again, when we speak about convenience remember the question was posed about an 11th grade yeshiva bochur not the general public. Does an 11th grade yeshiva bochur “need” texting. I think the general consensus is “no he does not need it”. Should he get it? The general consensus is “it would be better if he didn’t at this time”.

The other discussion which veered off topic was if texting is useful and convenient or has it destroyed the basic use of conversation. The general consensus is “yes” to both.

The problem is that no one intentionally misuses texting nor do they plan to over use it. Once you have it, you just don’t know if YOU will be the one addicted, over using it, or be the target of friends of friends texters. And no it is definitely not necessary especially for Yeshiva Bochurim in the 11th grade many of whom don’t even have cell phones. So lets not get carried away with necessities, as I said before it is a privilege not a right.

There are reasons to have cell phones and there are reasons “not” to have cell phones. Understand that having a cell phone is a privilege and not a “right”. If you are asking whether or not you should have texting you are already understanding that there could be a problem. In truth, once you start texting, it is never ending and it could become very expensive. Texting is a simple way to send messages in private when you don’t want someone to necessarily pick up the phone, or draw attention to him/herself by having the phone ring and have them answer. They just glance at the phone and read just like email and it is definitely habit forming.

Remember the days of “beepers”? When someone would send a message on a beeper and people were constantly checking their beepers for messages? Grab and look in middle of conversations, yeah that’s it and it reinvented itself into text messaging. WE are constantly connected via text to phones and to computers. It is a convenience to some and a nuisance to others.

So should an 11th grader get texting? I can’t tell you what to do because it is a choice you have to make with your parents, but if I were to give you advice, I would ask you to hold off as long as you possibly can. And if you choose to get it, don’t start texting with your friends because you will surprised who winds up with your phone number and starts texting you. Just use it sparingly among your parents and siblings.

I looked it up, it is advertised in the classifieds of the Five Towns Jewish Times. It is called menadvim.

oomis, if you had bed bugs you would know it. You would feel the bites and the itching. So if you didn’t have any problems someone else wouldn’t either. On that note, you can get bed bugs in a brand new mattress from the factory as well. That is why they are sealed in plastic, but if you get one where there is a rip or tear in the plastic or it was resealed, it is very possible to have a problem. When my son took an apartment for a couple months to live near his job, he bought a cheaper mattress from a discount store. After a few months he realized something was wrong and came running home. He had bed bugs.

Arc, no it isn’t the best for a 2 year old. Picking up viruses and illnesses from other kids whose parents are working and send them to nursery no matter what because they can’t stay home with them is not better for the kids. And separating from their mother and individual attention from them mothers have resulted in large amounts of children labeled with learning disabilities. Kids who don’t have the basics of colors, numbers, shapes and letters; Kids who don’t count well, don’t know their abc’s and so on. Kids who don’t have manners and fight more at a younger age because they don’t have the one on one influence from home. These are just some of the things that kids do normally and naturally at home with Mom.

I don’t know how we got so crazy that we shove a 2 year old out to school even before they are toilet trained (yup in my neighborhood the nursery helps train). This pressure of even sending the 2 year olds to school has put a tremendous financial burden on young couples and is ridiculous. Why shouldn’t a 2 year old enjoy being home with their mother? For that matter why shouldn’t a 3 year old? Honestly look how the system has changed over the past 40 some odd years. In the past 2 generations we have added an extra 2 years to school. We added a Pre 1-A and an extra year of nursery. When I was a kid 4 year olds went to kindergarten selectively and 5 year olds went to first grade.

Now 2 year olds go to nursery, 3 year olds go to nursery (2), 4 year olds go to Kindergarten, 5 year olds go to Pre-1A and 6 year olds go to 1st Grade. That is 2 more years of tuition and two less years at home with Mommy.

And c”v if you don’t keep up with this platform, you can’t get in to a good yeshiva, because you practically have to register your kid when they are born, and you have to start from the get go or someone else will take your place.

I don’t believe there are any rules anymore, maybe by chasidim. It really depends what agreements the parents make at their sit down meeting before the chasunah. We agreed to go half on the furniture with my first two mechatonim. So I told both my daughter and daughter-in-law, don’t rush wait till you find something you really love because you will be stuck with it for 30 years. B”H they both have beautiful heirloom quality bedroom sets that they both still love. One from Spain and one from Italy and we split it with the mechutanim. Other items we wound up supplying because we are in the furniture business, and some things the kid’s got second hand from family members.

My other son took most of the antique furniture pieces from his own bedroom, leaving me just the bed and desk and that has been working for them for 5 years. We found them a used dining room set and we were able to give them the chairs and dinette table.

Today Kollel couples can find furniture that others give away. There is a chessed organization that was started this year that accepts and gives furniture and appliances I believe. I can’t remember the name at the moment but I think they have a classified ad in the JP and/or the FTJTimes.

To Kollelboy and HIE

And with that, I am finished arguing with either one of you

EDITED

Feel free to discuss the issues, but NOT how you feel about other posters

Well again, everyone is different. I have one sister and one brother, and they didn’t experience what I did when my father died. Are they stronger than I am? Am I more sensitive and emotional? Or did we all have different relationships with my father?

Probably, all of the above. What I listed and not bulleted, or outlined, was the most common 5 stages of the grieving process which you will find if you google “grieving process”. zeh hu! It helps to know that these strange feelings and emotions that might creep up on you is quite normal and you are not going crazy although you might feel that you are. You might experience it while your siblings don’t, as I did. The day after my father’s shloshim, 31 days exactly, my cousin made a wedding and both my siblings attended with my Mom. They each took some job like giving out the seating cards or holding the light for the camera, etc. so they can be in attendance. Everyone called and yelled at me that I have to go, how could I not? My question was “how could you go?”. My husband and kids went, and I stayed home alone, because I lost my father and I didn’t feel like finding an excuse or a loop hole to absolve my obligation to him. I didn’t want to see anyone, I didn’t want to dance, I didn’t want to smile and I didn’t want people to look at me.

My intention was not and is not to have a debate on what is the most common, or what is the proper way, or what psychologists agree on. I was simply answering an inquiry to the best of my knowledge.

Here’s an idea, let’s make it a more natural experience. Let’s refuse to answer “stupid” and irrelevant questions. Let’s try to get to know the person we are trying to set up and also the person we are trying to set that person up with. Let’s stop worrying so much about what is fair or not to the parents and worry more what is fair or not to the kids. Let’s not set them up for failure by allowing them these grandiose ideas and expectations and lets teach them to be more realistic especially where support and paying bills are concerned.

When speaking to parents be more direct and ask “what is your son/daughter looking for” and not what they are looking for. Ask more pertinent questions such as how “HE” plans on supporting his family or if he is going to be a long term learner how his parents are planning to support his choices. Stop kowtowing to the old school “the boys parents want support…..” that only breeds more problems, promises that are broken, and bills that haven’t a chance to get paid.

If support is offered and agreed upon by both sets of parents make a written agreement and include a time frame. you will be marrying off more children after this one.

If the young lady says she wants only a learning boy, then ask her the same question “how do you and your parents plan to support your choices? What happens when you start having children, what then? Are you prepared to have others raise your children? How much does daycare and babysitters cost? Do you know how much tuition costs? Do you think that you can bring in enough salary to cover all of that?

Then make realistic shiduchim. Stop trying to redt a learning boy on a girl who wants a boy to make a parnassah. I have heard that a million times “but he is such a great guy, such a catch, when she meets him she will change her mind”. Why should she change her mind? On the other hand if a young man wants to work and wants his children raised at home by his wife don’t redt him a young woman who is in medical school. She is most likely very serious about her career and won’t give it up to please him, and don’t ask either one to change their minds. Don’t put them in that position in the first place that they might like each other and then have to be frustrated that they are demanding that one give in.

In addition just because a young man is in yeshiva does not always make him a “learning boy”. Many really should pursue a parnasah and not burden their wive’s with it. If you are not living and breathing learning, if you do not think Torah all the time, then maybe you can learn part time and work part time or work and then have a shiur in the evenings.

Learn to listen to understand when speaking to young people so you actually hear what they are saying and what they are looking for. If a young girls sounds immature and sounds like she doesn’t know what she wants, she probably doesn’t so don’t waste the young men’s time with her. Same goes for the boys. And stop setting kids up on practice dates. No one appreciates being used and then turned down for a second date because it was the boy or girl’s first date and they are not going to settle on the person they go out with. Be prepared to like the first person you go out with.

And parents, you know best, if you know your kids are not ready, not mature enough, too interested in having fun or experiencing life before settling down, then don’t let other people talk you into setting them up because you are wasting the other young person’s time and draining their energy for dating. The dating process can be a very hard and hurtful experience for many. Not everyone can take rejection gracefully.