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The problem with getting drunk is that you no longer have full control of your mind, body and soul. You can not control how much damage you will cause either yourself or others. It is not the yetzer horah working on Purim to make you drunk like possibly at other times. It is one’s own need for an excuse to drink.
As far as the computer and internet are concerned, they are tools to help us. In every generation there are going to be things that are going to tempt people to do wrong or immoral things. That is nothing new.
People need to understand that Hashem is always watching and the Yetzer Horah is always working. People have freedom of choice and they can either give into the Yetzer Horah or not. That is the job of parents and Rebbeim to teach the concept that we always stand before Melech Malchei Hamelachim and everything we do and say should be considered carefully because we are saying and doing it before the King!
In addition, when we cross the boundaries of the moral code we hurt not just ourselves but our family members, so we have to fight the yetzer horah and not give in. The internet is a very useful tool for business as well as home research in many areas. Filters are available as well as monitoring which can see where anyone who logs on goes. Computers should always be in visible areas of the home, like the kitchen where anyone can look over your shoulder and notice if you are where you shouldn’t be.
As far as movies and dvd, they can be watched on other devices that do not connect to the internet. And computers do not need to be connected to the internet either. I don’t understand the concept of smashing computers or running a yeshiva office without a computer. Would you smash a copy machine or a fax machine? A computer can be just as innocent depending on how and why it is used.
The point is TEACH our children appropriately, TEACH our children the love of Torah, Yiddishkeit and true yiras shamayim. be good role models. When we move into the positive aspect of being Yiddin and teach the beauty of this religion and the positive aspect, we will see a lot less kids going off the derech and looking for immoral, illegal, and unacceptable activities.
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AZ, what do you propose to do with these younger bochurim who you propose start dating earlier? Are you planning on giving them a class on maturity, social skills and the difference between men and women? The reason boys are not getting married at the same age as young women is plainly and simply the fact that they are not ready. They can barely take care of themselves appropriately; to take on the responsibilities of a mature, loving, caring and unselfish married relationship and parenthood is too much to expect of bochurim that are not mature enough to handle those REAL LIFE responsibilities.
Girls can basically get married straight out of High School, that is not the case with boys.
nathan, why did you assume oomis was talking about YFR and that she lives on Frisco in Far Rockaway? As she said, how do you know who she is or where she lives?
And by the way, the boys could not call their parents for a ride, they weren’t capable of remembering their own phone numbers, standing up straight or walking on their own!!! If my daughter didn’t take them home it would have been the janitor’s problem.
Jothar, which halacha says you should drink the night before????
anuran, D”Y is in constant contact with Daas Torah and before getting back to anyone, in the event that they have to return a no, they ask what to do and it is done with the utmost care and compassion. In addition I am quite sure that if there is danger discovered in the blood they will inform the client to see a doctor.
COT, I don’t ever believe parents should meet a girl before the first date. I believe if a boy is ready for marriage he should be ready to handle the dating process himself and not rely on his parents’ opinion. Secondly, if you did that the parents could be dating as much as the boy himself.
The time to meet the parents is when the couple decide there is something there and things are coming to a decision (engagement) very soon. If the boy feels that he needs his parents permission to marry a girl and that if they say “no” he will drop her, then he and his parents need to decide at what point in the shidduch process they need to meet her. This should be relayed to the girl before she agrees to go out with him.
D’or Yeshorim is an organization that has implemented a lab to test the blood of both boys and girls for various factors and diseases that can be detrimental to a child. The original cause was a Tai Sachs a debilitating neurological disease that effects babies in a horrendous way. They never develop real motor skills, can’t crawl, walk or even turn over on their own. Most of these babies don’t live past a few years.
When D”Y tests the results of the blood tests they can determine if the boy and girl should continue in the shidduch or if their blood DNA might bring about a horrific disease in their children and therefore stop dating. Many people carry different disease markers in their genes but for many illnesses both parents have to carry the gene such as Tai Sachs. So it is perfectly fine if either parent is a carrier but if both are carriers the D”Y will say stop the shidduch.
In addition please know that NAMES are never used when calling into D”Y for checking. Everyone who takes the test is given a card with a number on it. When you call in the person will give the NUMBERS and birth of both the boy and the girl. Someone will later call back and speak to the same person for the Yes or NO.
Both Nathan and YFR has stepped over the line a bit here. What oomis is trying to tell you is there are many perspectives and points of view to every issue and if you take a small step to the right or left you can view the same issue from another person’s perspective.
Both Oomis and I are grandparents, so we have lived through our own generation of teen Purims, we have lived through our children’s generation of teen Purims and we are very concerned about the current and future Purims of our grandchildren and other family members, neighbors and friends.
On the other hand as young men, you are only privy to your own experiences that are relevant to your own age and lifestyles. When these two Chashuv Rabbonim come out in public to make this proclamation understand they didn’t do it on a whim. They did so for very serious reasons according to Halacha, Torah and experience. They have seen way more than either you or I and that is saying a lot from my perspective. You can’t possibly see the whole picture from your position as someone with more life experiences who have already traveled in your path.
WE know that you THINK you know everything. WE know that you THINK you know more than we do. But let me ask you this, have you not learnt anything in the last 4 years since you have been out of Yeshiva? Would you do the same things today that you did when you were 15 or 16 or has your more mature mind, body and soul taught you that some of those things were foolish and irresponsible. Well at our mature and experiences minds, bodies and souls WE are telling you that drinking outside the confines of the shiur at your own seudah table is foolish and irresponsible. It effects not only yourself but others around you, and you might not even wake up the next day remembering or knowing who you have to apologize to.
One more thing. When my son was in YFR, it was my daughter who drove his friends home after the mesibah at 2:00 AM. Their own families were not willing to wait up for them, nor did they arrange a designated driver. Was this because their own fathers were drunk as well? f Was it because they told their kids not to drink? Was it because they told their parents they wouldn’t drink?? These were YFR Beis Medrash boys who were smashed and believe me it was an ugly sight. They stayed away from our home for months after that because they were embarrassed from my daughter after my son told them how they got home. They knew they lost her respect and ours.
I encourage everyone who wants to start dating to immediately go for the D’or Yeshorim test if they have not already done it in school. That is step #1. Take the card they give you and put it with your important things like birth certificate, social security card etc. When you need it you will have it.
I don’t believe in checking before dating, nor do I believe in checking till after the 3rd date. If you are ready to go on a 4th date that is the time to check because your hearts are not yet involved yet there is enough interest to see whether you should continue. Doing so too early on will just be a discouraging situation for all, add tension and basically is for naught. Many shiduchim don’t go past the 4th date, so checking before a second date is a waste of anxiety.
I just reread the young lady’s post. I never believed in having a young lady meet the boy’s parents up front. I find it too nerve-wracking for a young woman and a grueling situation which is totally unnecessary until you know if the dating process is going anywhere. Since the boys usually have the upper hand in this game, it is even more hurtful when a girl goes to the trouble of meeting the boy and his parents and then gets dumped.
A young man in the dating parsha, should be mature enough to go on his first date alone, with out shomrim. If he cannot stand up to his parents and say “no” and cannot stand up to his parents and say “you are not going to embarrass me by……” then he is not mature enough to date.
I actually thought that the prospective mother-in-law was going to ask for the handwriting sample from the shadchan before the kids went out. Although I think the whole idea is ridiculous, that would have been the least humiliating way to do it.
What kind of “man” asks a young woman “My mother asked me to ask you for a sample of your handwriting?” What was she supposed to answer “and did she tell you what time I should send you home as well?”
How about the fact that a young woman is embarrassed and not comfortable picking up HIS dirty underwear and smelly socks? Or is embarrassed to tell him to take a shower and/or brush his teeth. Unfortunately this happens too!!!
In addition, oomis, those size 2’s can become size 8’s very quickly after marriage especially after kids or if they are too stressed or not happy. Or those good looking shy guys, become heavy eating at their mom’s before they come home to eat at their wife’s table and are not so shy anymore when they make hurtful comments or say things they shouldn’t.
A little bit of training goes a long way.
a nony mus, So as a young lady in the parsha, how do you feel about the questions, the crisis and so forth? What made you decide to give the handwriting sample?
The Torah said that the “mana” tasted the way every individual wished it to taste to satisfy each individual. Was that considered taivas?
AZ, we obviously don’t live in the same neighborhood or run in the same circles. My kids are B”H married for years, but that was the going rate when they were dating and B”H we did not have the need to go to a professional. The one to two thousand dollar amount you speak of was the amount of the gift we bestowed (as expected) on the non-professional.
So maybe if parents see that they are not getting anywhere with the Shadchan they should visit more than one or switch to one that will take their child under their wing and work on their behalf. I have heard too many stories from young women themselves who told me “the Shadchan didn’t even speak to me. I was sitting there and she took another call, looked at me for two minutes and waved me out of the room.”
Everyone has a sheliach as well as a zivug and if the sheliach you chose is not working for your benefit maybe that is not the one Hashem chose for you.
There is no reason why we can’t try new things as long as it doesn’t go against Torah and Halacha.
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It has been a month since this question was posted. I am wondering what happened. Did you ask for the handwriting analysis? Did the kids go out????? What was the outcome?
Shindy, what you don’t seem to realize is that the teacher also spends money making small shaloch manos packages for each and every student who stops by. So it would be nice if there was one parent in charge of Chanuka and one parent in charge of Purim to collect even just a couple of dollars each kid and have that parent put it in an envelope from the class and deliver it in their own Shalach Manos. And for sure the Teachers are just as deserving as any of your friends or neighbors to receive whatever shaloch manos you prepare for them.
I really don’t understand your way of thinking? Why look for machlokes? Should we then all be eating only American food? After all we live in America!!!! How dare we open up Heimisch European Restaurants and Take out? Are you saying there are or were no Jews in China, Mexico, Italy and the like?
Here is a history lesson for you. Jews live all over the world, and there is no reason why Yiddin should not taste the foods from other regions. We don’t need to be narrow minded. In addition there is no reason for people not to make parnasah opening restaurants, it is a means of feeding one’s own family as well. If you choose not to eat out then don’t but don’t judge others. There are way too many double income families who need the help and break just to keep things on an even keel. And that is not called fressing that is called living.
AZ, Professional shadchonim take big bucks and they are entitled to it. Parents who go to them do not give them a “gift” when a shidduch goes through they give them a payment for their services and that can be up to and beyond $10,000. If that is not enough of an incentive for the Shadchan to do their best for each and every client, why would the addition couple of hundred help? No one sets the shadchan’s fee but the shadchan.
On the other hand, non-professional shadchanim who do it for the mitzvah still have to get paid and are usually grateful for whatever gift whether monetary or otherwise that they receive.
oomis you are so right. Those who argue that it is “right” to get smashed on Purim are just plain arguing for the right to get “smashed”. Which in itself is a stupid argument. If you need to get smashed/drunk then you have a problem. If you have to argue for the right to do it, that in itself is an indication of a problem.
WE have a RIGHT to celebrate PURIM. WE also have a RIGHT to keep our children, our neighbor’s children and the rest of our community and Kehilah SAFE. This is a RIGHT that some of these Rabbonim have taken seriously and some of us who have bothered to blog about have as well. Those who have chosen to use the common sense Hashem gave them will understand and do the right thing. Those that choose otherwise will do so no matter how much we try to explain it.
Personally I was taught that you go to your Rav to ask a sheilah you don’t know the answer to or you don’t understand. Things that are no brainers don’t have to be asked.
There is no reason why Heimish stores can not be the most popular store around. Everything is about business sense. If you make your store the cleanest, most efficient, friendly, courteous, best service, best produce, best products, best choices, etc. Then you will be the one everyone runs to even if you are the most expensive. When I lived in BP and even Flatbush I ran to a very popular store on 18th Avenue because they always had the best of the best even though it was hard to park and I had other choices available. They had the nicest fruit and the freshest meats and bakery. One stop shopping was big pull.
There is no reason women should not enjoy the chag with their daughters and families. Tznius always applies whether it is Purim, Pesach or vacations in Florida.
I have done both in the past, and last year due to a torn rotator cuff and had to order in. This year I am home again due to guests that I am lucky to have, my mom (she should be well till 120) and her sister (same brocha) as well as their aid. Today I just heard that my daughter and family and my son and family want to come as well. I will let them figure out how everyone will fit.
Pesach costs big bucks no matter what you do and you have to clean no matter where you are. Although it is great not to be in the kitchen, you have to trade that with getting dressed up for every meal and waiting to be served (getting the waiter’s attention etc) and still making sure that everyone at the table has what they need.
It is really no one’s business or concern to tell anyone else how they should make Pesach or comment on anyone’s decision. Each one of us make our decision’s according to our own needs and variables. Whatever you choose to do, whomever you choose to spend Pesach with, may it be a joyous and meaningful experience for all.
I use “Heimish” in Rechavia. If your brother is there or in Yeshiva there ask him. The boys check with their Roshei Yeshiva since many of the places are good one week and not good the next.
AZ, as long as you are in contact with the menahel of a large girls school please talk to he about being available when people call for shidduch references. When I called a menahel of a Large Girl’s school the response was “Do you really expect me to remember all the girls that walked through here? Do you know how many girl’s that would be?” My answer was “Yes each one was there at least 4 years, either you or someone else there should make it a point to get to know all of them for shidduch purposes.”
As far as I am concerned, JUSTICE was served when he was put in jail for the rest of his life. He was divested of his freedoms and was put away where he can not hurt another human being. That was justice for the crime and to the family of the victim. It was not necessary to kill him. Was the killer of Yankel Rosenbaum put to death? Was the killer of John Lennon put to death? Was justice served in these cases? Was Robert Kennedy’s killer put to death? Was he as important as an officer? Was OJ Simpson put to death? Did he even serve the sentence that SMR is serving for taking two innocent lives? Do you really want to speak about Justice?
yes, because it isn’t the shadchan who got the child to the 3rd or 4th date, it is the shidduch and it may or may not go further.
I was appalled when I read R’ Hoffmans article in today’s VIN. No I don’t agree with anything he said. WE are not on the madreigah as the sanhedrin and we cannot agree with the death penalty!
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AZ, that is called “bribing” the shadchan which I don’t think is fair or right. A shadchan really needs to try their best to “match” compatible partners and not push a paid client on a prospect. That will result in what I think Jphone mentioned that he was set up with a girl that was totally looking for someone that was not like him.
The position of a shadchan is to make a match that works and when that happens they get schar both in the mitzvah itself and in payment. The problem with the 3rd or 4th date is that kids are so confused these days especially the more they date. The more prospects they go out with the more they have to compare with and the more they get confused. What they really need is a dating coach or a shadchan that is really involved and can help them through the dating process. Bribes will not help this. And the worst part is the more they discuss their dates with their friends the more confused they get. Friends confuse more than they help. People think that friends know them better than anyone else, but friend do more harm to shidduchim than good. They think that their honesty and truthfulness is what is best and they are being supportive. But in truth the best way to be supportive is to be quiet and allow the person involved in the shidduch to talk things through and come to their own conclusions. Stop comparing your dates with your friends. Stop telling them what happened with you and your husband and you and your wife. It doesn’t help it makes it worse. Many friends forget that they didn’t love their spouse at the dating stage or they were awkward with each other and that throws their friends off because they feel they should have more feelings at the 3rd, 4th or even 5th date and thats why they call it off.
When someone tells their friend “he was a jerk” the friend will usually agree instead of saying “well men also have awkward moments and get nervous and confused, why do you think he was acting that way….” or when a girls says ” i was upset because he ….” a friend would say “you are right he is not for you” while a coach or shadchan might say “how many times did he do that? Is it part of his personality or was it just a one time thing?….” When a boy says “she isn’t pretty enough” a friend will agree “you deserve better or yeah….” when a shadchan or coach will say “have you taken a look in the mirror lately? What do you think you deserve? Why would you say that? Who are you comparing her to? What do you think Hashem has in mind for you? What is your definition of pretty?…’
At any rate, you believe what you do and I don’t think anyone will change your mind, but having married off 3 kids already I don’t see your point as being productive. However, I do see a use for it in a dating service where everything is up front and it is a working relationship where everyone involved is involved as a job who is working to earn a living which has nothing to do with the outcome. Their job is to take info and use that info to set people up on dates and that’s it. Whatever happens between the parties is not their responsibility. As long as that is understood it should be perfectly simple and equitable. Pay the fee and you get set up. If it doesn’t work, pay the fee again or work on something like $200 gets you set up 4 times.
jphone, that’s called thinking ahead or maybe, thinking with your head!!
Hotels have different prices and different amenities depending on where they are and who they are trying to attract, also depending on how long they are in business (track record). It also depends on what you are looking for. Obviously if a hotel is offering only Cholov Yisroel and shura matzo only it will cost more.
Hotels vary in that some serve non-gerochts and some serve gebrochts. Some serve both. Some have mixed swimming and some have separate. Some have mechitzas and some don’t. Some have excellent day camps and babysitters and some don’t cater to that crowd.
Some rent amazing hotels and some not, some food is very heimish and some have amazing gorumet foods. Some are known for their abundance of food and tea rooms and some are much more stingy.
So everything depends on what you are looking for as well as what you are looking to spend. There are a lot of variable involved.
To moderator, I think some of these posts need to be deleted. This is a serious discussion and they are not funny.
aaryd621 and ishman, go do your homework and stop using Touro’s network to spam the Coffee Room! – YW Moderator
I just sent this email to the Governor:
With all due respect to the office of Governor,
Although the information you quote may or may not be as accurate as you provide, the fact is that the “boy” at the time was not in his right mind, neither at the time of the crime nor any immediate time thereafter. He was a product of a dysfunctional home, a dysfunctional individual on self-medicating drugs to numb his own pain. He did not commit a pre-meditated crime although he did commit a horrific crime. He did not have the intention that night to go out and hurt someone although that was the result of his going out that evening. Kids on drugs do not think clearly and their reactions to fear and confrontation is not to back down quietly and submit, quite the opposite. Listing the details of the attack does not change the facts which you did not list in reference to the current victim which is Martin himself.
No one asked for his release. No one asked for his pardon. No one asked that he be forgiven or excused. However, we all asked, including the Pope himself, that he be understood or at least his circumstances be understood, and he be allowed to live imprisoned and confined for the rest of his life. Prison is not a vacation and it is not a resort as we all know. So life in prison is quite a punishment. Having no freedom, no privacy and very little privilege other than what you earn on your own from your own appropriate behaviors, is an appropriate penalty for taking the life of another individual and that is why most states abolished the death penalty.
It was in your hands whether or not to allow this man to be killed and you played G-d. But you are not G-d, you are a human being. No excuse me, that is giving you too much credit. YOU are a politician who cares more about staying in office and pleasing your future supporters. But what you forgot to take into account is that many of your constituents are Jewish and Catholic. They will not forget that the Pope got involved and asked you for clemency. They will also not forget just how many people begged for mercy for this individual who was not a premeditated murderer but a rehabilitated prisoner.
Governor Crist, I just want you to remember when you do lose the election that YOU are not in charge, G-D is. People do make mistakes in their lifetime and this might have been the biggest mistake you will have made in your entire career. I know that Mr. Grossman will rest in peace from now on, but how will you knowing that you put this man to death?
With sincere regret,
A very disappointed individual.
So that no one feels left out or insulted!
Any shadchan who accepts payment before a marriage is contracted is going against halacha. Please don’t call that person a shadchan.
AZ, maybe you can start a dating agency with these conditions. In that case, a dating agency can take a fee up front to set up dates according to the personalities, needs and compatibility of the parties (like the goyim do). Under these conditions, whatever arrangements are made beforehand that everyone agrees to are appropriate. But then these are not shadchanim, these would be dating agencies and the workers are entitled to get paid for their work, as are anyone employed by them.
Keep this in mind for PURIM as well. Make sure that you and your kids can see through their masks and can breathe easily!!!
When my kids were young, my youngest was 7 we had just moved and were in middle of redoing our home. Our floor was covered with paper and my 7 year old drew pictures of haman all over the floor and insisted that everyone stamp their their feet all over his pictures to symbolize “stamping out Haman in our generation!”.
Purim is a Jewish Holiday and borrowing from the Goyim gives them a sense of validity. Why is it necessary to make fun of someone else’s religion. They are entitled to their religion. We are not looking for converts and we recognize that there are other religions in the world. By making fun of them we only promote them to make fun of us. WE walk through our neighborhoods and need to understand that others walk through and drive through our neighborhoods as well. In addition what are we really teaching our children when we do such things. Can we possibly know what is going through their heads when they see this?
Personally I think it is totally unacceptable. Would you think it was acceptable if your daughter wanted to wear a Brittany Spears or Miley Cyrus costume? You would think she wants to emulate her and not make fun of her. So NO I don’t think it is appropriate. It is also inappropriate to dress like a black slave. It is totally disrespectful and tasteless. Try to find a costume that represents someone you admire or something that is humorous. Poke fun at yourself if you will, or be original. But try to stay away from being controversial it won’t gain you anything but can cause a lot of damage. Don’t dress like a teenager who is at risk if your neighbor is going through the parsha, don’t dress like an old maid if your sister in law is still in the parsha and never got married. Don’t dress like a fat lady if your mother-in-law is overweight. Don’t put on a maternity belly if your sister-in-law doesn’t have any kids. Use your common sense to have fun without being hurtful or being a bad role model to anyone. Think about it, if a bunch of boys came in looking like Moshe Rabbeinu and a bunch of boys came in looking like the Pope who would you most likely give a larger check to?
Anuran, I don’ tolerate!!!
Ben Levi, you choose to see what YOU want to see, what I see is strangers throwing up in other strangers homes. Kids getting drunk because they are supposedly allowed to, adults getting drunk and their children so scared they are clinging to their mothers. It is not funny and it is not a joke. It is a big chilul Hashem and it is a dangerous situtaion gone way, way too far over the years, way past the point of l’shma. It has nothing to do with simcha and has nothing to do with being m’kayim a mitzvah. It ruins the yom tov for Hatzolah members, ruins the simcha for parents worried about their children and causes tremendous shalom bayis issues for many couples whose wives and in-laws do not appreciate the drunkeness nor the behavior of the drunk.
There are many damages including illness, accidents, and material damage. And even if there is ONE casualty it is ONE casualty too many because every JEW and every life is precious and even one life is too many to risk. THAT IS OUR HALACHA K’DIN. NOT TO MENTION THE HOSPITAL AND EMERGENCY ROOM STAFF THAT SEE DRUNKEN YIDDIN THAT LOOK LIKE DRUNKEN GOYIM.
In addition, YOU choose to see Jews forgiving each other in their drunken state, but you fail to mention they DON’T remember that the next day and the fight continues. What you also fail to mention is the brawls and fights that continue in the parking lots and the side rooms of the Yeshiva because the drunks insult each other, their spouses, sisters, divrei torah or Rebbeim. Not to mention the purim shpiels that go too far insulting and parodying , in what consider good fun, baalei batim and Rabbonim.
There is a difference in drinking at the seuda a shiur which will be mekayem the mitzvah and drinking to get drunk. There is also a difference between drinking at the seuda and starting a day early! If you really want to be mekayem a mitzvah and be mekayem the Chag appropriately stick to the rules.
T_L_C – Please remember that only the true Tzadikim had “mana” delivered to their door, everyone else had to go out into the fields each day and collect it for themselves and that was still relying on Hashem for parnossoh from shamaym! Hashem helps those who help themselves. Those who rely on miracles expect too much.
Limos usually hold more kids and the drivers are usually more responsible and patient. Whenever we went out to meet the limo driver they were really watching the kids. The didn’t let them drink (they were very concerned that no one throw up in their limo) and they were very patient with the kids, having fun with them and making sure no one was left behind. I have to say that I was always impressed with the drivers and always felt the kids were safer with the limos. They were also afraid to start up with the driver, because they respected the fact that it cost them a lot of money and the driver meant business. If he said don’t touch, they didn’t. If he said don’t drink or you are not getting into my car, they didn’t. If he said, we are leaving in 20 minutes, they left in 20 minutes.
So as a concerned individual I found the groups coming with the limo were better organized and more b’kovud. I think parents feel that their kids are safer and have some supervision since the parents can’t go along.
I remember the incident that Dr. Werzberger wrote about. The kids went to get the Dr. before they went to get the parents because they were scared to death. The parents had no clue the kids were drinking because it didn’t happen in the home. It was really touch and go for a while, it shook up the entire neighborhood. These were not at-risk kids. They found a bottle in shul. They were all shocked that the child passed out, had trouble breathing and was basically comatose.
This is not a joke, it is a very serious issue and unfortunately PEOPLE ARE JUST NOT GETTING IT! The more you argue that it is allowed and should be permitted the more you are telling young kids to go kill themselves. NO it is not allowed and NO it is not the halacha and absolutely NO it is not a mitzvah. Furthermore it is against the law to drink under the age of 21.
I have worked with at-risk for many years and I want you to know that nothing should be taken lightly. Not the cigarette smoking and not the drinking. It never ends there and it is never occasional, it just seems that way because they are good at hiding it. If they can’t buy alcohol in the store they buy cough syrup they call it “robotripping”.
Alcohol and nicotine are known as “gateway” drugs. They lead to stronger and more satisfying drugs when kids get too used to the alcohol and nicotine. Once they no longer get the high or numbness they are looking for they need to reach further. So when you make excuses for getting drunk, when you make excuses for kids drinking or allow it or give it to them, you are guilty of adding to the delinquency of a minor and make no bones about it.
Understand something else and please understand this well. EVERYONE THAT WALKS THROUGH THE LIFE OF A CHILD HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO THAT CHILD. Do you know what that means? It means you have to be the best role model you can be to all the children of K’lal Yisroel. Now ask me again whether or not getting drunk on Purim is a mitzvah or whether or not kids should be permitted to drink on Purim. As a role model for children what would you say now?
Shuvu, is a great organization to collect for. It was Rav Pam’s z”tl baby and has grown tremendously to assist thousands of Russian kids in E”Y. Shuvu has opened up many yeshivos in E”Y and when Russian parents allow their children to attend, they not only change their children’s lives by allowing them to be m’karev to yiddishkeit, they themselves learn from their children and come closer to Torah and Mitzvos as well. If that is not an incentive I don’t know what is.
Before my son got married he was extremely skinny. One year he refused to tell us his plans and just kept saying “You’ll see”. We were all sitting downstairs eating after megillah when we hear someone coming down the stairs. We ran to see who it was and there he was waddling down in a sumo wrestlers costume. It was hilarious.
There is no mitzva to get drunk. So if you stay within the framework of the mitzva to drink wine at the seudah you won’t have to worry about a hangover. The remedy is simple DON’T GET DRUNK!
Unfortunately it is parents who have turned the shidduch world into crisis. Yes a pamphlet and discussions in shuls by their own Rabbonim to prepare them for shidduchim is very much in order. Parents look for their ideal son-in-law or daughter-in-law. Parents look for their ideal mechutanim. Parents look for prospects they would be proud to show off to their friends and family. Parents in many cases look for a match that will agree to make the type of wedding they feel they deserve to have to impress their friends and family. Parents think their children are perfect and and a gift to the world instead of realizing that no one is perfect and their children are gift Hashem gave them not the whole world. And that each child is only truly half a person until they find their “better half”.
There are many an older single who’s parents got them to that point by rejecting one prospect after another without even discussing or presenting them to their child. Let me give you an example. When my own daughter was dating, a relative was chasing after this bochur and finally after 8 months got a yes and presented the shidduch to me. I was told that the mother wants the mechutanim to pay for his law school. Her concept was that she brought him to this point and when he got married the mechutanim should take it from there. I rejected the shidduch. My relative was very upset. She said, what’s wrong, why won’t I let my daughter date him. I said because the mother is nuts. When her child gets married does it mean he is no longer her child? Since when is it the mechutonim’s job to teach the boy a parnasah, that is his own parent’s responsibility. I was appalled by her chutzpah. it wasn’t that they couldn’t afford it, it was that she held her son on a pedestal and expected the mechutanim to do the same. I said that this woman would never value my daughter the same way she valued her son and I didn’t want to subject my daughter to that.
Well can you figure out the end of the story? My daughter was married ten years with 3 kids before we heard he was finally married. This falls into the same category as the stupid question issue. People who are looking for reasons “why not” to allow a shidduch. People who are looking for why “they don’t live up to our standards” or who hold themselves up to a higher madreigah. We need to understand that we are all equal in the eyes of Hashem. And that what we are looking for might not be what Hashem has planned for us. So we might need to get off our high horses and take a better look in the mirror. We are no better than the other human beings that Hashem created.
oomis1105, many bochurim wind up taking the lstats even though they never went to college. Gemarah learning is an amazing training ground for Law. Somehow talmidei chachamim who are totally immersed in Gemarah find Law school fairly easy in comparison to Gemarah and do very well.
The idea is also that they have a plan up front. So a young man might start preparing himself a year or two before he actually switches positions by taking courses along with his learning either on-line or in person. The idea is to be responsible and not hefker about it. WE can all understand that no one knows how soon a couple will have children or how many. WE can all understand that things don’t always go according to our wishes or plans. But that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be discussed and worked on. For instance, saying that I want to learn for 7 years might not be possible. What if they have 6 kids in 7 years? What if the parents each have to make 4 more chasunahs in those 7 years and have to support 4 more couples? What if c”v there is a financial downturn? On the other hand, what if c”v there are no children or only one child and the husband has the opportunity to continue learning and the wife wants him to, should he then say “NO, our agreement was for 7 years and therefore I must stop?”
People are so foolish in shidduchim and they ask for and demand things that are not always in their control to promise and agree to. We have been trained in the past 2 decades to look for the wrong things. We are ruining our children’s lives. Look at the results of what we have caused? Divorce, dysfunctional families, shiddch crisis and poverty to the utmost levels. People need to refuse to buy into these concepts and ideas and take a stand for common sense.
AZ, I have been involved in shidduchim that went 3 or 4 dates and then fizzled out. And I have known couples who canceled 3 weeks before the wedding. As the shadchan involved I wouldn’t want to get compensation if it didn’t go through. I have set up many, many couples who have told me I am on the right track and I have “listened and understood” them, but it didn’t click with that particular person. Unfortunately or fortunately I was only lucky enough to make one shidduch for my own niece, but I was always successful in getting it right. On the other hand, I have coached many young people through the shidduch process and that could mean 1 date, 3 or 4 dates or all the way through to the wedding and beyond.
I don’t believe a shadchan should get paid until they go to the chupah. It is not a done deal unless their is a marriage no matter how hard a shadchan works. A salesman that pitches a sale for 5 weeks does not get paid until the merchandise is paid for even if the sale goes through. That is the nature of the business. There is a double edge where Shadchanim are involved it is not only a business it is also a mitzvah and therefore it has to follow Torah guidelines and not new convention.
jewishandworking, usually we are not talking to the kids, we are talking to the parents!!!!