Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
risk of failure
If a school does not listen to the VAAD then the whole entire town should know about it because the Rosh of that school should not be allowed to participate in any Vaad or any community conference or council.
There are ways of handling a mix of kids and that is to divide the classes accordingly. Or to open another class in the appropriate school. It is up to the Vaad as a group of frum and reliable individuals to figure out what is best for the students that were left out.
WIY, good points.
Fees are fees and they are meant to generate income for the school. Application fees are gathered for the sole perpose of collecting money. Registration fees are the same except they are limited to the number of students that are accepted to the school. And no if it doesn’t work out for the student, you can only get the remaining tuition checks back but not the registration fee. And you will probably not get back the tuition for the month pro-rated unless the student left the first few days of the month.
Smart parents will always teach children the value of money so eventually they will be able to stand on their own. It is our obligation as parents to do what is best for our kids. We are not doing them any favors by spoiling them. Now some of us have the means to help them as much as they need, and some of us just don’t. But kids today need to try and be independent and show their parents hakaros hatov no matter who their parents are and what they have.
Moq, here is the problem. Just like victims are afraid to get help because of shidduchim etc. kal v’chomer how much harder would it be for a perpetrator to admit their problem and get help???????
Here is another thing, an addict can convince themselves that they are not hurting anyone but themselves which is why they continue because they can’t see how far reaching their spiderweb becomes, but with this illness they know good and well they have immediate victims. So I don’t know which CSW you spoke to but it is not so simple to just lable them “addicts”. Yes it can be considered and addiction but I would not put them in the same category as “addicts”.
LBK, if the parents are well off but still want the daughter to pay they are probably trying to teach her the value of a dollar.
Sac, rebuttal:
Is she saying she has “nothing” to wear? Is her closet empty? Well then, I am sure her parents would then rush out to meet their obligation of clothing her, feeding her, educating, her, making sure she is medically card for, etc.
However if she is saying she wants more than the basics, then that is a whole other ballgame.
I think that it is better to have 35 kids in a class than to have kids out of school, so yes deal with it would be a good answer at this point. And it is the responsibility of the local Vaad Harabonim to convene and figure out why the schools did not take them or why the parents did not accept offers. So when all is said and done, every child is placed.
GAW, if you want to make partner some day, you work and work and work. That’s how it goes. My cousins who are now both partners were never ever home. Yup, accountants both of them.
Also please understand that a NURSE is a mandatory reporter and if she does not report she can lose her license. So after calling you tell them to go to the NURSE and tell her. Yes, put her in a position where she has to call the police and let her know before hand that you informed your children that if they are touched inappropriately that they are instructed to inform her and as a mandatory reporter you expect her to report. That means that YOU are putting the camp on notice that you will not stand for anything less than full disclosure.
Here is a better question for you. Once a girl is working amd making money is it fair of her to expect her parents to continue to buy her clothing? After all what expenses does she have? Does she pay rent? Does she pay for food? Does she pay for her own car or insurance? How is she contributing to the household and how is she showing hakaros hatov to them?
Let’s discuss what a parent owes to a child and what is a need and what is a privilege? Do we really have to go there or should I just stop at this point?
While we sit and discuss and try to figure it out more lambs are brought to the slaughter each and every day. Lets think about that for a while. Each day that passes while WE discuss the merits of going to the authorities or not not just one but many vulnerable and innocent Jewish children (plus goyishe) are being molested as we speak.
Is talking and discussing really enough?
Eden Rock
Did you guys get the message? “if he were still alive”???? Are you understanding the extent of this disease and the consequences?????
I agree, it is extremely important to tell your kids that if anyone ever says “this is our secret don’t tell mommy or daddy” that is the que to immediately tell Mommy and Daddy. The only secret they are allowed to keep is if Mommy or Daddy are buying a birthday present or making a party. Any other secrets they MUST always share with Mommy. If anyone tries to convince them otherwise then they are probably evil people.
I also tell parents that after pre-school when there are 3 morahs in the room, teach children that they are NOT allowed to sit on anyone’s lap. And if the teacher or the Rebbe ask them to they should simply say “my Mommy doesn’t let”. That should be enough of a warning to anyone.
In addition, let them put their hands in a circle in front of themselves and teach them, “this is your own daled amos, your own private space. Don’t let anyone get too close to you that you feel uncomfortable. If they get too close, into your space back away and even run away if you have to. If anyone wants you to be alone with them scream, don’t go anywhere alone with even someone you know even if they said Mommy or Daddy said. Teach them to shake hands with the teacher or Rebbe instead of accepting a hug or even a pat on the back.
I also tell parents to put their cell numbers in the child’s coat, shoe, knapsack and anywhere the child can easily find it. So if someones says “Mommy told me to pick you up” they can say give me your cell phone so I can call mommy and ask her”. Molesters will back away from SMART kids and kids that are prepared to fight them off.
Jobless, a person’s gotta do what he’s gotta do. Think of all the kollel couples and the men that go back for night seder every night and for late maariv. That is their job and it is hard on those couples as well but they make it work for them. So try to make it work with some form of hobby or chessed work. Anything that would make you feel good about yourself.
If you live in a new place and have not made friends yet, go to shiurim or a book club or somethng like that where you can meet new friends. Or use the time to keep in touch with your old friends, exchange photos, arrange your photo albums, get the humdrum stuff out of the way so you can spend quality time with him when he is at home.
Competition in the work place is fierce so there is no such thing as “does he really have to”, if he doesn’t someone else will and if they feel he is not pulling his own weight or someone else is doing a better job than he is then they will realize he is dispensable. Wouldn’t you rather see him gain footing and you NOT have to work part-time just raise your own family without relying on outsiders?
Sit down and have an honest conversation with him. Discuss how you can support him in what he needs to do and how he can support you in your feelings and in your needs. Make the time you do have together special and important to both of you. Don’t waste it feeling resentful and hurt.
Coke, I can’t give you the names or the story here on YW because they won’t post it. If you really want to know you will have to google Jewish molesters in Flatbush Yeshiva and see what comes up.
GAW, the problem is that they CHOOSE not to seek treatment for this disease and act on their impulses instead. If you have crave chazar would you not speak to someone? If you crave milk after meat would you not seek help? If you keep turning on lights on Shabbos would you not find out what is wrong with you? But this terrible machlah where you hurt others you don’t seek treatment? NO! they CHOOSE to give in to their teivos instead of seeking help to stop them. This is the huge issue. Everyone has and had a choice in this situation for decades.
Choice one was not to give in to the impulse and seek help.
Choice two was not to cover up for those who hurt innocent kids and stop them either by forcing them into therapy and getting them away from kids, or by turning them into the authorities.
And those two choices are still on the table today.
In addition, the only way to keep them away from prey is to lock them up where they can get therapy, where they can be recorded and the public can be aware of them. If everything is done b’shtika no one will know that they live next door and to be careful not to let them near your children.
Can you even comprehend how many children have fallen prey to repeat offenders because of this? Let’s just go back to the case in the Flatbush yeshiva. Try to imagine how many kids could have been saved from that menuval if the Rosh took it seriously the first time he heard about it.
When you chase the almighty dollar, and you work in these two industries the answer is yes. Its called billable hours and meeting deadlines. Most especially when you are young and new and expected to “pay your dues”.
How does a wife cope? Did you want to marry a lawyer? Well, if you wanted to marry a professional so that you are financially secure it doesn’t just come with the big bucks it comes with patience, understanding and support for the husband that has to work his tail off to earn the big bucks. So don’t fall into the trap of feeling sorry for yourself and understand that you both have to deal with this. He is not playing games he is working, and working hard whether it is meetings with the bosses, dinner meetings with clients, or research on the cases. He is on the clock and he is going to be doing this until he moves up in the company and there are other newbies that have to pay their dues. And of course that goes the same if it is the wife who is the professional in such a position.
So just hang in there and be as supportive as you can be and don’t just sit at home feeling resentful. Find things that you enjoy, get together with your friends and family and with other wives in the same position once or twice a week, use the time to catch up on your reading or take up a hobby that you always wanted to do, sign up for a class, etc.
For accountants it gets worse starting January still Tax season is over, so be prepared.
http://www.jstandard.com/content/item/autism_the_pain_and_the_progress/ This article might give you some leads.
http://www.jccany.org/site/PageServer?pagename=resources_compass_splash. And here is an organization for autism and aspergers.
No Helpful, Rabbi Klein did not comment here. We address those who choose to bring in quotes to support their positions.
Ben Torah if it happened to one of YOUR children I wonder if you would have the same response!! YOU as Rabbonim up until recently were looking to defend the molester and save children from one. And that is why it is still common practice that molestation is going on in our frum communities in much greater numbers than 30 or 40 years ago. Lie rabbits it multiplies. And that it is covered up like it was 30 or 40 years ago. But if it happened to someone close to you, would you be so eager to defend the molester? Would you be so eager to just fire him from his job? Which by the way no one ever has? And which by the way does not stop them from finding the same job in another school or from walking near the playground and finding another victim.
So while you show off your knowledge of the Torah at least one more child gets molested,
Moq, I apologize if I sounded too aggressive or harsh when I addressed you in particular. I know victim survivors and I know of those who didn’t survive. And I know of a victim who didn’t survive who’s house was torched because his story got out. So yes I am very passionate about this subject and stopping this evil in its tracks.
What’s so great about our current standard?
Ten is where the fun is
Remember that saying?
Hey Blinky is it down to us? Are we the only ones playing?
Ben Torah, ah, but we are not talking about such cases as false allegations. Let’s talk about the most famous of cases in the Flatbush yeshiva for instance. There were more than one accusation. A beth din was convened and the parents of the children were threatened that they would be run out of town. The psak was given that if there was “no penetration” it was not molestation, and so on.
The children, yes more than one child, was sent for theapy to (I am not mentioning or the Mods might not post) and they were then molested again by the Therapist, yes again more than one child. This was a double whammy.
So in this case it would have proven his theory of tikun olam very clearly however these monsters, excuse me molesters are still being protected by Rabbonim, as are their accomplices to their crimes, and are still not behind bars even though the truth has already come out by more than one of their victims.
So what is your point? The more people like yourself and Moq keep arguing for the “sake of Torah” with all these false justifications the wheels will continue to turn as in the past and more and more children will continue to be victims, go OTD, commit suicide and we will lose generation after generation to our own evil holocaust.
Moq, you really sound like you are back in the dark ages. When was the last time you brought a case to the police department and this happened? I doubt it was in the past couple of years because Rabbonim would not have allowed you to do so. So no the things that you say do not hold water especially if you live in Brooklyn because the Brooklyn DA just did not prosecute because he was in the pocket of the Rabbonim of Brooklyn! So enough said. You concepts are old and no longer useful. Get into today’s world and what is really happening. We cannot count on Rabbonim to help us. WE can only count on professionals to protect our children and that is the end of the story. If a child has been molested in any way show the child that you are going to get the monster off the streets and locked up so that he can’t hurt them again or anyone else.
Let’s start cleaning up our communities of vile and viscous animals and once 10, 15, 50 pedophiles have been arrested and dealt with maybe, just maybe others will start taking us seriously and choose treatment over acting on their impulses and maybe just maybe the Agudah and other Rabbonoim and religious organizations will start removing known molesters from the school systems, shuls and other known haunts and assign them shomrim while forcing them into therapy and away from areas where they have easy prey.
No, it is not fair to your co-workers and if you are not at your best you are not a productive employee. If you need the day off, take it.
JAM, when my kids were babies and I lived in BP my friend and I would go out shopping together so one of us would watch the carriages outside while the other would go inside the store. We would take turns. At no point did we leave our kids alone outside.
cream on top
Well B”H it is nothing serious and it doesn’t have to be discussed, so let’s take that out of the equation and don’t think about it or focus on it. Just know that your bashert is out there and is putting in as much effort looking for you as you are. Just keep your eyes, heart and “smarts” wide open.
ring tones
No he said only when one is certain he will harm another child! That is what he said. And no the police will not prosecute anyone, because they need the parents and the child to do that. So if they have nothing to go on, they just can’t go! So again I say MOQ is incorrect and one should trust those who have the most expertise and training in the field.
diamond deals
D9, in my case my neighbors and my parents dropped in at my house at any time of the day! And yes I did check their bags, and my other kids were older when I had one. My youngest was 9 months when I started and my oldest was 9. I explained about Kashrus and milk and meat and I had two separate sides. And if my kids told me something that didn’t sit well with me I let her go.
Today I have 3 separate sides, one even for Pareve with 3 sinks and 3 ovens and dishwashers. She knows she can’t turn on the fire and if no one is home in my house she goes next door to get a neighor and at this point my youngest is 24.
I don’t mean to be insensitive. I mean to say everyone has a bashert, and the right person for Shimmel will be a sensitive yet strong individual who will be there through thick and thin because that is what a good, caring and loving spouse is all about. Love and respect goes deeper than the surface.
Helful, I agree anyone who would wrongly accuse someone of being a molester is worse than a killer in my book. This is a very serious matter and a disgusting one. Anyone who would stoop so low as to wrongly accuse someone should have extremely harsh consequences.
MOQ, yes I disagree. The odds prove you wrong. The Rabbonim are not trained to investigate and they err on the side of caution for their peers. THEY always side with their peers and with what other Rabbonim do and the children suffer. For each molester they don’t find guilty a possible 400 victims will be harmed. That is the statistics, that every molester will hit 400 times, some repeats but who knows? So I am not willing to take that chance are you? The Batei Dinim that were called to order did the same at the risk of ALL children known and unknown for the future. NO Rabbonim cannot be trusted in such cases, they lean towards the kovod of their peers. They look at all the good things he has done versus this one issue which in my opinion far outweighs all the mitzvos. A molester has the blood of his victims on his hands. And the Rabbonim that cover for him or find him NOT GUITLY do as well.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you and would trust the police department in these cases 1,000 percent over the Rabbonim any day. And I would trust the opinion of Rav Eliyashuv on his psak in this matter more so than 1000 Rabbonim you could put together against it. MY eyes have been opened to this years ago. I have done my research on the subject on both the organizations you mentioned. Did you? Did you go back enough years into their pasts and why both are nogeah b’davar?
If it is something that YOU know then it is something that will forever be on your mind. Whether you need to worry about compatibility or not because B”H Dor Yeshorim can test for that. I would be very surprised if your Rav has paskened that you would not have to divulge to your future wife that you have a disease because vi nisht vi it will affect both your lives in the future.
In coaching we teach our clients the two breath method. Take two breaths before responding, this will give you an opportunity to calm down a bit and not just react. This is an extremely good idea for ALL to learn in order to give your lips a chance to stop stupid comments from coming out of your mouth and your brain a chance to sort them from smart ones.
People say the stupidest thing at shiva homes. They will tell men who have lost their wives to call them after Shiva because they have a good shiduch for them. They will ask women who have lost their husband if they are putting the house of for sale because they might have a buyer and even more stupid things if you can believe it. People should learn to either keep their big mouth shut or just follow the lead of the aveil. Or they should practice or prepare of few decent things to say before they go. As others have said, if you don’t have anything nice to say just smile and say nothing. Your presence is enough.
Well shimmel maybe that is part of your reason. One to know that your spouse doesn’t carry that gene as well. And second to know that your spouse is up for the challenge and not a shallow human being that doesn’t understand that marriage has its ups and downs and that it is a commitment under all conditions not just the fun ones. You need to find a spouse that is supportive and understanding and all areas and not one that would fold and cower in the face of a challenge.
in case
I just remembered there are toeless tights so that would mean there are no seams, right? I hope that is of help to someone.
Moq, the Agudah had their chance for decades to remove the Rebbeim from the classroom and from the schools but they didn’t. Can you guess how many victims that bred? We can no longer put our faith in Rabbonim to come up with a solution. They had a long long time to figure it out and they couldn’t. Reb Eliyashuv gave his p’sak. A molester is equal to a rodef and they should be turned over to the police. That’s good enough for me.
Moq, I never said DON’T have rochomonos on the pedophile’s wife and children. I did say don’t have MORE rachomonos on them than on the victims. That is way out of line and a dangerous perspective. The family of a pedophile is not at fault but neither are the victims and their families. So yes one should protect ALL the victims but not the pedophile.
I don’t believe that any victim or victim’s family blames the molester’s family. Unless of course they protect him or they knew what he was doing. You can’t fault someone for being ill. But you can fault someone for not seeking treatment instead of harming others.
mw13, YOU are going overboard. Why not? Let’s take it to a logical conclusion. When a parent abuses their child it is not b’pharhesia it is in private and they keep it that way. IT is a private busha and the parent most especially wants to keep it that way. AND they don’t want the child to talk about it.
What YOU are suggesting is that the parent ABUSE the child in PUBLIC and that the child comply with that. THAT does not hold water because the child would NOT be able to conform with that and the child would crack under questioning and would eventually tell the therapist and the police that their parents told them to say it! Today’s therapists and police investigators know how to speak with children and find out the truth. They know what questions to ask the parents, teachers, principals, guidance counselors, friends, neighbors, etc. They don’t just go by the word of one person or the child. A thorough investigation is conducted as well as an investigation into possible other victims. While all done quietly and discretely.
WIY, D9, Yes there are other options like the husband going to work so the wife can raise her own kids, lets start with that.
And there are other options. When I went back to work when my youngest was a baby and I lived in Flatbush I did not give my Housekeeper a key. I told her she can take my child outside only on the block and in the backyard (where my neighbors could see her). Why anyone allows their babysitters to have a key to the house and lets them take their children anywhere is beyond my comprehension. How do you know that they don’t take your kids to a treif restaurant? How do you know that they only take your kids to the park? How do you know that they only walk with your kids and don’t get into a car with them and go off to their boyfriend’s house?
It is one thing when the kids are old enough to talk and tell you everything that goes on. It is certainly another when kids are too young and too small to give you feedback. DO NOT GIVE THEM A KEY. Let them take your kids out in your backyard only or in front of your house. Who said they need to walk? If the kids are in carriages let them walk them up and down in front of the house. YOU take them for a walk, or take them to the park when YOU are home. Or get a High School student to come after school to do it.
go for it
Smartz, our frum society has produced psychotic, neurotic and downright crazy people. Why do we have to put a number, and age and a time limit on when things need to happen. The Brocha I give young people and I give to you as well is “The right one at the right time!”
Do you know how many divorces are happening in our society right now? Do you know how many young marriages have broken up because of this rush to the chupah ready or not? Do you know why? Because they are marrying for the wrong reasons. They are not looking for their bashert and they are not looking for the right qualities and values in a partner. Everything is crazy and screwed up!!!
You are a smart young woman and your Bashert is out there looking for you. And B”H OUR society is not in charge, Hashem is in charge and he will make sure the two of you find each other. But you have to do your histadlus. You have to daven, you have to give tzedaka, do chesed and do whatever you can to have faith, emunah and bitachon in the right people or should I say non-people. You need to put your faith, emunah and bitachon in Hashem and recognize the shelichim he sends your way. Make sure that you don’t turn away possible prospect because of foolishness such as height, weight, etc. Take a good look at the qualities and values of the prospects that Hashem is sending in your direction before you turn someone down.