Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
blue stone
My philosophy: Kids have two feet one of each are planted firmly in the two most important areas in their lives the home and the school. Together this makes the foundation the child builds on to become a healthy and successful human being. If a crack develops in the footing of either foundation his entire being starts to crumble and fall. During the growth, education and maturing processes he may lean more strongly on one foundation or another, but as I said if either one develops a crack or becomes unstable, the child’s entire future is at stake.
If you are lucky enough to sit behind your picket fence and not as yet have been challenged or tested by the Eibeshter don’t be so quick to throw stones. You really don’t understand the flip side of the coin. You have not as yet gotten your hands dirty, you have not as yet seen the reality of the system, you are babes in the woods. You have not been touched by the ugliness of the truth. But c”v and I say this with all my heart, you should never know the ugliness of the truth, if you ever do get your hands dirty either by those closest to you or by means of a friend’s child, neighbor’s or relative’s then you will understand better what we are talking about.
We had a young girl in the neighborhood. She had just barely entered her teenage years. She was caught in town sitting in mixed company at the Pizza store. The yentas in town couldn’t wait to run back to the school and spill the beans. The “school” decided that she was no longer “x material” and it would be best for “HER” to go to a certain out of town yeshiva. This was decided by Rebetzin”x” the guidance counselor. Well that decision led to her downfall. Not only did she turn OTD and a drug addict, she went completely dark. From pink and bright she went black and dark. From smiles and bitachon she went cynical soulless. She was only 14! She lived on the streets with no one to turn to.
The mixed company she was speaking to at the Pizza shop showed her compassion and gave her an attentive ear to listen to her tzores since her mom died. Her school DID NOT give her the compassion nor the attention she needed neither since her mother died nor while she was on death watch. Neither the mechanchim, the administration, nor the students surrounded her with the love and support she needed. Not one teacher invited her home for shabbos, took her out to dinner or thought of a way to give her a break from her pain. NOT one asked her how she was doing or what they could do to help. She didn’t want to unload on her father or siblings because they too were in tremendous pain. So instead of allowing her the sin of unloading on this group of mixed company, they took a normal young sweet girl in pain and threw her to the wolves. They shoved her off the derech and they took every ounce of emunah and bitachon that she clung to away from her. And that’s not all. She is now B”H in her twenties but that is only by the grace of G-d. We almost lost her at least 10 times that I know of over the years to overdoses. She has been used and abused and the achrius belongs to the school and the Rebbetzin who was so quick to throw her out because she spoke to boys.
She is OK now, if you can call it that no thanks to anyone connected to this neighborhood. She doesn’t live here. She is connected to Hashem in her own way at this point and she is alive, B”H. She is a work in progress and as far as I know she is working very hard to fight off her demons and stay away from substances. But basically, her childhood was torn from her. Her relationships with her family was torn away from her. Her life as it should have been was torn away from her. Her health was torn away from her. She was just a kid, a yesoma without a mother who was in NEED of compassion and attention. Where were THEY? Why couldn’t THEY step up to the plate and do THEIR job? Why did they sacrifice this child? There is no excuse for this tragedy, NONE at all. There is NO MARGIN FOR ERRORS when it comes to the welfare of children.
And that is why I will fight tooth and nail for these kids YOU keep labeling “bad”. Because YOU have no hasagah of what you are talking about.
mw, do you live in Monsey that you are so in tune to the situation? And I don’t have to answer to you because YOU are not the parent body, and I am not the principal!!! I am a mentor and a life coach, and as I said I don’t have to tell you exactly what I would say because that would depend on what the child would tell me and the circumstances and variables surrounding the child. I see how that would be difficult for you to understand that, but that all matters when dealing with children. And since it is NOT your child in question YOU would not be privy to hear what I or anyone else would say to a child in such a situation so that is neither here nor there. Parents such as yourself are a threat to the students. G-d help your child if Hashem tests her next. Did it ever occur to you, that you might be the next parent or the parent who is begging the principal to have rachmonos on your child next year? It can happen to anyone and has happened to children from the best families, the most choshuv families and even children of Roshei Yeshivos. So please don’t be so quick to judge. What if it was YOUR child would you consider her a threat to others? Would you say she has to be dealt with? Would you consider her “bad”? Or would you want the school to work with her and help her. Would you be pleading with them not to push her towards OTD?
Al tadin et chavercha ad shetagiah b’mkomah!
” Perhaps you should find yourself some new ones..”
????? I can’t believe you let that go through!!!!!
shneinuj, not at all trying to be condescending, I was just answering the question that I in fact have my experiences here in NY, that’s it.
mw, perhaps you should resist giving me suggestions as to what I should be doing.
mw, B”H I have made it through the system and I have healed from my bumps and bruises. It is now my children’s turn to deal with it. But I have already paid my dues in spades and I prefer that my grandchildren’s yeshivas stop sending me pleas for money. I am not interested. As I said, I have already paid my dues and my kids pay enough in tuition!
No one listened to my pleas when I had a complaint about a teacher or a Rebbe, thank you very much. And when I had to advocate for other children these past couple of years I have realized that the yeshiva system didn’t get better it only got worse. So again, I don’t know why you and I have gotten into a head to head battle on this but obviously your experience and mine have been very different. So I would appreciate it if you would stop your rhetoric because I have no intention of continuing this disagreement with you. Nor do I wish to go one up with you. We will just have to agree to disagree. Because I have every right to expect no less from the Yeshiva system than they expect from their students, and to expect less or to make excuses for them is ridiculous. Excuses are for sixth graders.
Moq, do you know what “working with the school” means? If you complain to a school they tell you to take your kid out!!!
Now lets get a little more serious. Do you see how everyone defends the schools and the system? This is how molesters get away with abusing children. The schools can’t be wrong! The Rebbeim can’t be wrong…….the system can’t be wrong. WE should believe them, WE should trust them, WE should support them.
Well WE have tried for years and it hasn’t worked. THEY have gotten more ridiculous and more out of control with THEIR demands. AND NO, we can’t allow it to go further and keep supporting their nonsense. AND yes I believe yiddishe momma because they act first and ask questions later if they ask questions at all because they don’t want to know the truth they would rather listen to the loshan horah of all the other parents who claim THAT child is a bad influence on MY child. AND yes I know this for a fact after advocating for many students.
But as I said before, the yeshivas themselves have an achrius to EVERY child and THEY should have caught the child before it got to the point where THEY could label them bad and a bad influence. WHY didn’t they catch them earlier? Why are the other parents blaming the child and not the yeshiva? Why should the child have to go elsewhere instead of the Yeshiva addressing the child’s needs and making sure that other children don’t go down that path as well. Why should that poor child be the korban because the school neglected to address the child’s needs and issues.
AND why oh why do YOU ALL keep labeling these children “bad” as if they were killers and rapists? Are they “bad” because they speak to the other gender? They are “bad” because they listen to english music? That makes them worthy of being kicked out and shoved off the derech? Where is YOUR Yiddishkeit? Where is YOUR ben odam l’chaveiroh? You would strip these kids of Torah and Mitzvos rather than work with them?
If you want to protect YOUR angels from these children then volunteer to work with children who have issues. Maybe they have a sick parent at home or maybe they lost a parent. Maybe they have a dysfunctional home where there is no shalom bayis, or maybe their father lost his job and there is no income and there is a lot of stress. Maybe the Rebbe makes fun of him or he just can’t chap the math and they can’t afford a tutor so everyone picks on him and makes him feel stupid. Did any of you ever think of the underlying pain these children carry that make them “bad”???????? Do you ever wonder why regular normal kids turn sour?
Honestly, they are carrying a baggage load of pain with them. Maybe try to open your eyes and realize that and be grateful its not YOUR kid. Then do something to help them rather than help to destroy them.
And finally, there are just so many men who can sit in Kolel for x amount of years and be supported by the community. That’s how it was done in past generations. After x amount of years a married man with x amount of children would give up his seat to a younger man and go out to make parnasah for his mishpacha and in that way, he managed to afford schar limud and other necessities. It is only in the past two generations where the seichel went sour and EVERYONE was pushed into staying in kolel so no one can afford to pay tuition or support yeshivas. So who exactly is supposed to do it? Grandparents are not only supporting themselves but are paying rent and food plus insurance for their kids that are learning and for those who are not and can’t afford it. So do you expect grandparents to pay tuition, rent, food, and insurance for children and grandchildren? How many families do you think one set of parents can support? How many tuitions can one family afford? How many children should one family have?
Of course there will always be kollelim and always should be, but that doesn’t mean that every yeshiva bochur has to be in kolel, nor does every kolel yungerman have to be there for 10 years, nor does it mean that every kolel man who has children should expect the Olam to support his family. There comes a time when a man has to be mepharnes his own family. Or there comes a time where the Rosh kolel has to determine which are the mitzuyanim and should stay on for the community to support and which should get up and support their families. If a kolel man does not have an agreement of support with another person it is just not fair to expect Hashem to handle it for him, because as we can see, the schools are complaining that people are not paying the tuition and the tuition is so high because people are not paying the tuition so it is raised so those who can afford to pay, pays more. It has been spiraling out of control and it is now collapsing onto itself.
As far as sending kids to a school who’s hashkafus are geared to the family. It does start out that way. But many, many schools keep moving more and more to the right to outdo the next school. The rules get tougher and tougher in mid stream because they want to be more BY than BY or be more mehudar than the most mehudar so they keep raising the bar until the kids are choking from the pressure.
Now comes the question that is always asked, dinei malchuscha, but since we do not live in OUR OWN STATE and we do live in a country with its own laws, how does that play out? A parent IS obligated to pay for the minor children and a husband is obligated to pay for a wife!
True. But on the flip side, no Rebbi or Menahel should consider accepting a student without first thinking long and hard whether they’d want him/her to be an influence their own child.
NOT TRUE, when they are performing their JOB they have an obligation to the community and that is ALL parents, and ALL students and their personal feelings don’t come into play.
Mw13, I am a firm believer in if there’s a will there’s a way. And I will not expect or accept any less from our Yeshivas then they demand and expect from their students. They have raised the bar to a level of perfection where the children are concerned. As far as I’m concerned that means that the bar is raised for them as well.
Firstly are you saying that ALL the girls out of school are in this situation?
Secondly, why hasn’t anyone intervened till this girl has gotten to this point in the scenario?
Thirdly, I would definitely talk to the young lady in question, and no I can’t tell you what I would say to her because it would all depend on her situation, why she lost her interest in Judaism, when it started and why it started. I have worked with many young people in various situations caused by various reasons. And for reasons only they know, they clicked with me and trusted me. I am NOT the only person who can get through to these kids. I am NOT the only one who can love these kids and restore trust in them. And I am not the only one who believes they are worth the effort.
shneinu, so lets be clear my experience is in NY. That is where there is one of the largest Jewish populations, where there is the largest Jewish organizations, and the greatest issues.
WIY, people break rules all the time and depending on the rule or the severity of the offense get off with a warning or a stern lecture etc. NO, they don’t get fired right away. Please keep that in mind.
Lets get this straight, it is the schools that created the system that is currently collapsing upon itself. It is the system who told the girls to marry only kollel boys and it is the system who told the boys to stay in kollel and not go to work. WHO DID THEY THINK WILL PAY TUITIONS IN THE FUTURE????? This is the reality of the situation they themselves created. Stop blaming parents for not being able to pay tuition when THEY themselves told them not to work! Stop blaming parents for not wanting to pay for other people’s kids. Stop blaming parents for not wanting to pay for unqualified personnel! Thats just for starters.
Now we are going to keep going round and round with this argument as we do on each thread. What came first the chicken or the egg. It can’t be fixed because the yeshiva system is not going to admit they are wrong and yet the schools keep closing because of lack of funding. But where is there funding supposed to come from? People are fed up with the schools and the system they are running. They no longer wish to support it. Can you hear the voice of the people loud and clear? You created the problem and we are not going to help you continue!
In all honesty, if you keep telling yungerleit that it is not their responsibility to go to work and make a parnasah how do you expect them to pay tuition? How are the Rebbeim supposed to get paid? Which mitzvah is more important? Unless you have a Yissacher/Zevulun contract how are you supposed to handle this?
So now it boils down to the responsibility of the schools to the kids. Do they need to hire qualified mechanchim? Do they need to work with the kids that have issues? Do they need to train their staff? YES, YES, YES, YES!
You can’t use the lack of funds or anything else as an excuse because the schools themselves have set themselves up for failure. It is the system that failed not the students so don’t blame the kids and don’t make excuses for yourselves. YOU chose to promote learning over being responsible husbands and parents. YOU chose to kick children out as examples. YOU chose unbendable rules. YOU chose to hire anyone who needed parnasah rather than qualified individuals who can actually connect with their students. YOU choose to ignore complaints, YOU choose to ignore signs of abuse or neglect. YOU choose to ignore signs of issues and problems and pass the buck. YOU choose to look for excuses to stand behind and wash your hands of the problem.
BUT if a child does well, sparkles and shines, YOU take ALL the credit. The parents had nothing to do with it.
mw13, I would work with that student! In what way would she be a bad influence on the other students? What are her underlying issues? what is going on with her?
Recognizing that Hashem is all around us is a reason to be b’simcha. Rejoicing in all he gives us is another. Seeing the beauty in everything he created is another. Stimulants does not enhance our simcha it numbs our pain. The more connected with are to Hahsem, the more we appreciate that connection in everything we have and everything we do, the happier we are.
shneiu, maybe you don’t live in the mainstream or maybe you are not as involved as I have been and have not really seen the ins and outs of the yeshiva world.
mw13, yes. You follow the Torah. Here in my neighborhood the Rabbonim together as a vaad decided to boycott a certain supermarket because the head of the Vaad Hakashrus had an issue with the owner. Now mind you it was never a kashrus issue, they had a personality clash and the supermarket was owned by 4 siblings and he really had it out for the oldest sibling. It got so bad that it came to a head and the head of the Vaad accused him of not being a Shomer Shabbat which was neither here nor there because even though he was, the other family members and owners were as well and it was just a bunch of loshan harah. It really divided the neighborhood and the Rabbonim had to take up the position supporting the Vaad Hakashrus. It went to the point that the THEY forced the family to sell the store. One of the NEW owners of the store just happens to be a Rabbi in the community, a member of the Vaad Harabonim and a member of the Vaad Hakashrus.
How does that sit with you? To me that is a conflict of interest. And that certainly turns me off to following the Rabbonim. So I follow the Torah and one or two Rabbonim that I still trust and believe me after working in the field of Child Advocacy and fighting child molestation you learn very quickly that there are not too many Rabbonim that you can trust. Rabbonim support Rabbonim right or wrong, as we saw in the Monsey case just recently (and I am not going to mention names).
Moq, what kind of security measures do you think can be implemented in mikvaot? I am a female and I have my ideas, but as a male what do you think can be done to keep male minors safe?
sandwich to go
mw13, what shape is our chinuch system in now? I ask you? Schools are closing left and right! They have outsmarted themselves. Thousands of kids are OTD, they wanted to make an example of kids to teach other kids not to follow suit? So how many kids needed to be made the example. It looks like the example became the rule! So how well did that work out? Did it stop anyone from committing the same offense or did it become a selection process?
What should they have done? First they should have looked closer for the signs of trouble and dealt with it. Yes, they should have cared more for the students and worked more closely with them so they would not have been in the terrible matzav they were in. And if they broke the rules they should have worked more closely with them to find out why instead of labeling them “bad” or “osvarf” and throwing them out. THEY should have recognized children in pain and help them heal. THEY should have looked beneath the surface and listened to understand. ALL THEY were interested in was THEIR rule was broken and THEY had to get rid of the culprit.
GEE, what does that say about their own when THEY break a rule? How many of them have been caught cheating the government and worse? Shouldn’t THEY be thrown out never to be allowed back again? Think about it, shouldn’t THAT be a rule? After all they can be influencing others, at least the thousands of kids in their school and their parents.
Rules are generalizations so yes in general a 23 year old boy would be more mature than a 20 year old. However, age is just a number and there are many 20 year olds who have a lot of life experience due to family conditions, or having to fend for themselves that make them as mature or more mature than many 23 year olds. So again it all depends on which bochur you are discussing.
mw13, a school has an obligation to work with each child they accept and for each child they take schar limud for! Furthermore a school has an obligation to be accountable and responsible for each child under their guidance and care. THAT means that THEY have them during most of their waking hours and i many cases have them more hours than the parents do. THEY are supposed to be able to watch out for signs and symptoms of abuse, neglect and general malaise. They are supposed to notice if children are fairing well or not. AND if parents are not doing what is necessary to help their own children that doesn’t mean that the school washes their hands of them, that means that for those children the school takes on the larger responsibility for them because the parents are NOT for whatever reason that is. The school might have to call in child protective services, the school might have to take the parents to a beis din, or the school might have to get a court order to make sure the child is well taken care of, but the school should NOT turn a blind eye and let the child fend for themselves by throwing them out onto the streets.
If you were in denial that your child had a problem should the school wash their hands of your child or should they be the child’s advocate until YOU came to terms with reality? Should they assign the proper teacher, Rebbe, mechanech to the child who could understand him better and work with him to bring out his potential or should they just ignore him and let the chips fall where they may?
WIY, since you are not married yet and you are not a parent yet, you are not INFORMED enough to have such an opinion!!!
Schools need to take more responsibility and get equipped to handle ALL types of students and train mechanchim to catch kids before they get to the point of no return, especially when there are issues in the home. I have worked with MANY at-risk kids and have never met a “bad” kid yet. I have met many kids with “bad” problems and issues, but that’s it. As a friend of mine used to say “G-d don’t make no junk!”
So let’s get that straight from the start and understand that Home and School is a partnership and each has a combined responsibility when it comes to children. When YOU will be the parent, maybe then YOU will understand that a little better. Mechanchem has as much of a responsibility in raising a child as do the parents. They have as much influence if not more than do parents, and they spend more time with the children and set more rules. They charge parents an arm and a leg for the privilege of taking their child to begin with and parents barely have the time these days to spend any quality time with their own children as they scramble to pay the bills.
And understand this, it was the parents who set up this system, it was the schools who did it!
leave her alone
I am ALL in favor of supporting TORAH! I am not in favor, however, of supporting elitist yeshivas who kick children out into the streets with no place to go rather than find them other options or work with them. Of Yeshivas that have ridiculous rules that can’t be bent for the betterment of the students. Who are holier than thou and don’t practice what they preach! Who label kids garbage rather than treasures, and have the chutzpah to say that one child is worth more than another!
Moq, Yes I agree with your sincerity and I wish you Hatzlocha rabah in all you do. And we should all do our best to stop this machla in its tracks and save the children and as we do, work our hardest to help heal all those in pain.
Moq, maybe as WE start locking up more and more molesters publicly maybe more and more Rabbonim will step up to the plate and actually form TRUE batei dinim that will handle such issues appropriately and lock up perpetrators as well. Maybe BD, will order abusers to pay retribution and to be locked up for forced therapy and have 24/7 shomrim and electric monitoring systems. Maybe public apologies will be forthcoming to the frum community of victim/survivors. Maybe all this can happen in the future, but first we must STOP serving up more yiddishe neshomas on silver platters.
take it or leave it
Arc, You are really making Monsey out to be an elitist society where neighbors don’t really care about each other, and Rabbonim don’t get along. I have a lot of family in Monsey and that is not what they project their community to be like.
So I don’t know if you are playing devils advocate or you are really a cynic. But you are really painting a very nasty picture of that community.
aYid, even with that you can’t assume that there are car services that work 24 hours in all parts of the country. It just isn’t so.
WIF, did you mean on this blog or in general? Sometimes one needs to answer correspondence and we don’t know how to address the letter because these days the names are mixed up among the genders.
Maybe it is because men are afraid of smart women?
balance due
balance forward
balance ball
balance over due
balance beam
Monday, May 17, 2010
R’ Moshe Halberstam: Mitzva to imprison molester
Bottom line: If a child is in danger of being molested – the police need to be called. If there is any uncertainty – either regarding the facts or the seriousness of the incident – an experienced rabbi or professional should be consulted. However if it is clear that children are in danger of being molested – a rabbi does not have to be consulted. Rav Sternbuch concluded, “Let the molester rot in jail.”
To my dear friend…HaGaon Rav Shraga Feivel Cohen…?..
But according to what was said [above], in a case that entails tikkun hao/am, governmental authorization is not necessary. However, all of this, to permit notifying the government, is only where it is clear that he participated in the crime. It is in this case that there is an issue of tikkun haolam. But where there is not even circumstantial evidence (rag/ayim /adavar), but only some impression [that he is guilty], then not only is there no issue of tikkun hao/am, but [to the contrary] there is heres haolam (ruination of the world) here. And it is possible that because of a certain bitterness that a student feels toward the teacher and makes a false accusation against him or because of [someone’s] delusion, a person [i.e. the accused] will be put into a situation in which his death will be preferable to his life. And it will be through no fault of his own, and [in that case],4 I see no permit in the matter.
And with this I remain your friend seeking the welfare of your distinguished person of Torah,
Yasef Shalom Elyashlv.
I can copy and paste the entire translated letter if you want but I thought it would be too much. Please note that the Rav says that only when there is “circumstantial evidence or just an impression” that a person is guilty, then it should not be reported. And I think everyone in their right mind would agree. In such a case a person who is suspect should be quietly monitored without being exposed until he is proven innocent or proven guilty.
OK, here is the rest of it:
The essence of the question: A person knows someone who is abusing a boy or a girl sexually, and the case is such that we are incapable of restraining him ‘from continuing his evil deeds, is it permitted to inform an official of the government about this?
My view is that if the witnesses are found to be credible by the chosen judges, [those judges] are authorized to impose a monetary penalty or a physical punishment, however they see fit. This preserves the world, for if you will keep strictly to the laws fixed in the Torah and not punish except where the Torah has punished, we will confront a destroyed world. Thus will people breach the world’s [most fundamental] safeguards2 and thus will the world become devastated. And [we find precedents in that sages] have already instituted penalties for striking one’s fellow…In each and every locale, [the rabbinical authorities] exercise their judicial powers to safeguard
generation, and so has it been done in each and every generation and in each and every place where they saw that the hour called for this…
[See, for example, Sanhedrin 58b in regard to Rav Huna]…
Therefore, these chosen judges that did this, if they saw a need of the hour for the betterment of the province, then they acted legally. This Is true all the more so If there is a governmental authorization [for their actions], similar to the case of R’ Elazar Bar R’ Shimon in Bava Metzia 83b.3
From the Rashba’s words, we learn that in a matter that entails tikkun haolam (the betterment of the world), the Sages of the Jewish people in every generation are empowered to institute a safeguard and stand in the breach, even where there is no authorization from the government. Now, from what the Ritva writes (to Bava Metzia 84b) it appears that this [power] is [due solely to] the authorization of the government.
This is his language there:
He said to them, “Arrest him!” Now, that which [R’ Elazar bar R’ Shimon] exercisedjudicial power [in this way] without witnesses or forewarning, and not In the era of the Sanhedrin [which is forbidden]; It is different here, because he was [acting as] an agent of the king, and It is part of the laws of kingship [as opposed to the laws of a
Sanhedrin] to executea person without witnesses and forewarning to correct the world punitively, as it Is stated regarding [King] David who executed the Ger Amalekl [without witnesses, forewarning or the deliberation of a Sanhedrin}, and the agent of a King is the same as him [i.e. similar/y empowered}.
So what do we learn from this? Anyone can take anything and cut and paste it to make it sound the way they want it to sound. But in reality, the RAV did say that if it is a valid accusation the authorities should be involved because it is their jurisdiction. IF however the accusation is weak and it is just implied or you only have circumstantial evidence then it is not enough to get the authorities involved and take the chance to ruin a possibly innocent accused’s life.
Are we clear on that now?
graph paper
Try Rabbonim who are entrenched in medical issues such as Rabbi Moshe Tendler in Monsey. Try calling places like HASC who can give you a list of Rabbonim that are involved with medical issues.
I think this thread has brought up a very good point and that is hakaras hatov to parents and that children need to learn to be both responsible and respectful. Children need to learn independence and not to want or expect too much or even everything from their parents. And children need to learn not to make excuses for doing that.
The point of working and earning your own money is to pay your own way. It is always nice when parents are generous especially when they DON’T always have the means to do so. But what is nicer is when kids know to appreciate it and show hakaros hatov and not take it for granted.
model pupil
Helpful, Rav Eliyashuv called a molester a Rodef. We must be talking about two different things.
Moq, see why one Rav’s psak will be taken apart till it means nothing??????
As far as schools are concerned many schools who have found issues have immediately sent letters home to inform parents that an issue has been discovered and if anyone else’s child had any contact with “this teacher” and is displaying any of the following symptoms….to please contact the principal on his private line. IN addition, please talk to your children about…… So schools who have stepped up to the plate as far as their responsibility, their concern, their part in prevention have nothing to worry about.
I have been involved in the JBAC and have done my research with therapists, attorneys, victim/survivors, etc. I have not heard of stories where the perps had guilt or remorse at all. They are all in denial and continue to prey rather than admit guilt and seek treatment even if they are well into their 70’s. They choose to remain on top with all the honors that it provides rather than help their victims heal no matter what horrors they are going through. So for the handful of remorseful or pained individuals that have hurt countless numbers of victims, good luck to you if you believe them. I and my colleagues don’t. But go ahead, take out an ad in your local paper and see how many of them would respond, or go to Dov Hikind and see if he would contact any and offer them a deal and see how many would respond. I doubt if any would take the magic pill even if they were offered amnesty with the blessing of their victims.
I apologize profusely for the typo, I didn’t mean the BJJ, i meant to type BJE, obviously.
Moq, I give you a lot of credit for your enthusiasm and I don’t want to squash it one iota. But we have all tried the “derech” and the frum way. It doesn’t work and there are way too many innocent neshomas being slaughtered while we keep trying. We can’t waste any more time. We just can’t. It is not up to us to allow this to continue while our kinderlach are the kaporos. The only way to stop it is by professional means. Parents can tell the signs, it is not that difficult. Children change from this torture. Their sleep patterns change, their concentration changes, their habits change. There are signs to look out for. If you see the signs and your kids tell you something believe them and take them to their doctor if you don’t want to go to the police. The doctor will handle it for you. And don’t be afraid to answer the questions honestly. AND by all means DON’T MAKE UP THE ANSWERS! If you are not sure, say you are not sure. Let the experts figure it out, they know how.
Moq, understand that there are victims today as young as 3 and as old as 53. That is the scary part.
Arc, let me remind you that this did happen in Lakewood and R’ Solomon said that ALL the girls schools in Lakewood would remain closed until ALL the girls had a place. It did work.
If the community in Monsey can sit idly by while children are labeled and not work with them and help them then….EDITED
person in the know
Arc, any school who teaches respect and derech eretz does not have the chutzpah to not show the Vaad Harabonim of the local communities respect and derech eretz especially when it comes to such a situation. After all the parent body and the students all fall under the auspices of not only the schools but the local Rabbonim who are part of the Vaad. So if the Vaad were to tell ALL the parents to keep ALL the children home from school till this was all figured out that is what the entire community would have to do.
So no the VAAD does not RUN the community but neither does these two schools. And when all is said and done the VAAD has more power over the communities than these two schools do.
Moq, I can’t tell if your serious or your dreaming.
Rabbonim are standing on the issue of witnesses. THERE ARE NO WITNESSES. All the acts of molestation are done in private and not b’farheshia so how can there be two witnesses to each offense that a victim can bring to a beis din? Already a frum molester has protected himself and has given himself carte blanche according to halacha, also knowing that Rabbonim will not allow anyone to turn him over to the police. So getting two Rabbonim or more to come together and actually agree on this issue is not likely. Only one Rav at a time on their own will have the courage to name a molester a “RODEF” and attach all rules that apply.
The decision whether or not to “out” a molester should not be YOURS to make. That should be the decision solely left in the hands of the victim. If the victim is willing to publicize the event and keep everyone safe from the monster then there should be no other collusion in regard to the privacy of the accused. On the other hand, MOLESTERS who turn themselves in should have their identities held private for having the courage to own up and seek help.
Every school has an Insurance rider to protect themselves against sexual abuse and molestation. So I am not sure where you are going with this.
As far as an independent panel is concerned, that is what the BJJ or Torah Mesorah was supposed to do, and the Agudah being the most respected and honored Jewish Organization that is basically worldwide should have done. They have the means and the know how to keep such a data base and to answer inquiries forwarded by educational or child related institutions.
adorable, and please don’t forget how much the insurance goes up for each underage (meaning under 25 year old) driver in the house.
filled to the brim
I would hope that if it is 4AM and he isn’t home that he fell asleep at his desk or he had the common sense to stretch out on the couch instead of get behind the wheel of his car when he was too tired to drive, or take public transportation when it is too dangerous to be alone on the streets. Maybe HE is using some common sense and others should do the same.
Anxiety feeds on itself so what you really need to do is learn what triggers the anxiety AND the signs of when it begins. If you feel and anxiety attack begin don’t wait till it escalates use some techniques to stop it in its tracks. So here are some things you can do:
One is to clear your mind of stressful thoughts and go to a place where you found to be peaceful and pleasurable. Like a beach, a beautiful park, a boat ride.
Two turn on some soothing and relaxing music to help you get your breathing into a relaxed rhythm.
Three, do Lamaze type breathing, breathing in slowly through your nose and hold, then release through your mouth.
As you listen to the music, while your mind is thinking of something beautiful and you concentrate on your own breathing to center yourself there won’t be room in your brain for your stressful and anxious thoughts.
I would say that people should take photographs if you happen to be in the park anyway and post them on that blog or in a local newspaper so that parents can have a first hand eye opening experience. Even if it is not their own nanny they might realize that it very well could be.
deer skin