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That is a very interesting question. On the flip side, goyim do it all the time. They will sell whatever is necessary or take it to a pawn shop and try to retrieve it when they have the funds. Are we truly so attached to OUR possessions or is it more than that? Is it the need to hang on because as Yiddin OUR things are always taken from us? Or is it the sentiment that we attach to it vis a vis an heirloom piece that was the babba’s of the Zeide’s or is it just the value that we hang on to?
Actually, what I think he is saying is that in Europe the community supported people who were chosen to learn and they didn’t take it for granted. They understood they were the “chosen few” and that it was their “job” and they relied on others for support and didn’t take advantage of their generosity.
conditioning treatment
Homeowner, thanx, I needed a good laugh!
hill top
Didn’t we try to cover these type of things before with the “lack of RESPECT” thread and the “what happened to Derech Eretz” thread?
Do you know the worst thing about all those people who don’t know this is rude and “W”rong? Do you remember as kids when we did something wrong the question always rang out “where were you brought up, in a barn?” (well some of you will remember) Your rudeness and attitude, also known as lack of respect for others, will always, let me emphasize ALWAYS reflect back to your parents and teachers.
Duh!!! ya think?????
Maybe everyone needs a little soul searching on this one! Quoting and doing are also not the same and just because one is typing and not speaking or everyone is anonymous it is still L”H and in many cases rechilus and motzi shem rah. So everyone really needs to work on that “little something else”.
Homeowner, do you think it is mesirah to call the cops on a HEFKER car? Can a car be a yid or a goy? Would it then be male or female? Would it matter then if it had a Hebrew name or a Yiddish name? In that sense would 4 flat tires be considered four broken legs c”v? At least they weren’t slashed, they might have bled to death!! B”H, a little CPR and techias hamesim!!!
Homeowner, I like your attitude, if you can’t get through just sing their song.
If you are buying from a kosher supermarket ask the mashgiach in the store.
sleep apnea
or Men Of Quorum?
oops. What happened to my post?
At 17 I worked for HUD a Federal Government agency and worked for the Director. He was arranging a party and called me into his office. He asked me to be one of the hostesses who would be passing h’or dorves(?) around. I told him that I couldn’t do that since the food wasn’t kosher and that there would be Jews at the party. I told him that I couldn’t offer treif food to Jews. He was surprised because he didn’t know that but then he, a religious catholic apologized to me and asked if I could serve coffee or tea. I said that would be fine.
As far as what someone else might say because APY was at the party, for all YOU know they might say that a JEW was at the party and didn’t eat anything because the food wasn’t kosher but came to show his respects to the host. Which would be a kidush Hashem for anyone who spoke about it. So again before someone jumps to conclusions and paskens for someone else know that this is not the ASK the RABBI site and one should be very careful what they say and about whom they say it. Because a JEW is taught to be DAN L’KAF ZCHUS and not to keep looking for the bad and wrong in everyone. AND because each one of us has our own RAV and our own common sense to know right from wrong and who to go to for answers.
player piano
apushatayid, I realize you are playing along for the fun of it because you are smart enough to ask your own RAV or Posek for an answer to any sheilah you might have. Anyone can look something up and cut and paste an answer to back themselves up, but that doesn’t make them a RAV or a POSEK. You are a smartcookie and a friend to all, and more than a pushata yid in my book.
cofeefan, well in that case I will tell you a few coaching tips.
Take two deep breaths before responding to anyone, that will give you a chance to guard your tongue before your mouth runs away with your thoughts.
Understand that you can’t change people you can only change yourself, and you can’t control people, you can only control yourself. So if it is you that caused the drama, you ask yourself, “what could I have done differently to bring about a different outcome?” and then you walk yourself through the motions through to the conclusion. That will help you gain control of yourself and figure out the next step which will either be to apologize of make a correction. And of course to know how to handle it the next time.
If it was something someone else did, like traffic for instance, then the question would be “what can I do to control this situation, or what can I do to change this situation” As you think about this and realize that there is nothing you can do other than pull over at the next rest stop and wait it out, or leave earlier or later next time to avoid it, your next thought could be, if there is nothing I can do about it, what can I do with it?” So what can you do with the time that you are stuck in traffic? Call your wife? Listen to Torah Tape? Listen to music? Go over your speech for tomorrow?
If it is something that is related to work, then if “I can’t control the situation, then what can I do to change the situation?” and walk yourself through that scenario. Is there something that you could have done? Is there something that you should have done? If not realize again that you can’t control other people you can only control how you react and respond to other people. So now that you were handed this situation, what is the best way for YOU to handle it. THAT you can control, that is your choice.
The key is to try to understand where the stress is coming from and to understand whether or not YOU are in control of the situation. Either way, YOU are still in control of the choices you make regarding it. I hope that helps.
House of cards
Addicted, I hope so too, but that is no excuse for this very bad behavior. We are all Jews here and everyone knows that. That is even more important because you don’t know who is reading this, where they are holding, how old or young they are and what impression you are making on them. For that reason alone, everyone should be on their best behavior. What if kids see how mean spirited adults are towards each other, frum adults that is on a frum website? What about kids or people on the fence wanting to be frum but then turned off by this? Who would embrace yiddishkeit when they see this kind of out and out slander? If you saw it in the street you would do your best to break it up, or at least I would hope so.
Homeowner, you have valid reasons for being upset. As a former BPer I understand completely. It is overcrowded and people do not have the respect for others that was once part and parcel of the neighborhood a generation and two ago.
Many years ago, I was in BP Erev Shabbos. A car in front of me just stopped blocking traffic to empty out his carload of passengers and items. There was a space, be it a driveway, hydrant or whatever a car space or two ahead but he did not pull over. The cars were lining up behind me all the way to the corner of the block but he did not seem to be bothered. I put my car in park and got out to tell him to pull over. He looked at me like I was nuts and yelled at me “NU, its Erev Shabbos!” I yelled back “Nahr, just for you???? Its Erev Shabbos for me and the other 15 people behind me as well!! Are you deaf and blind as well as dumb?”
Then he looked passed me to see the line up of cars behind me, turned purple, closed his doors and pulled over. Haoloam nivra bishvili! The world is created for me! The problem is they forget there are millions of “me’s” out there that Hashem created the world for.
That might be true but personally I don’t use that hechsher.
I’ll pick up SALAD
Salad spinner
We lived next door to a dentist. My father a”h was a baker and worked evenings. He was a very menthliche man and gave rides to everyone. Even went out in storms with only an hour or two sleep in the morning to pick up kids from bus stops and drive them to school and drive people to work. Then went back to sleep. My neighbor didn’t let his tenant put their big carriage in his garage so my father let them use ours. He would come home early mornings like 4:00am pull the carriage out drive his car in and put the carriage back in all seasons, all types of weather. Just so you know he was a mentch.
Anyway, people often blocked the driveway and he was a stickler for being on time. So he would go out and honk the horn for the person to move their car. In most cases the person would come running out full of apologies and my father waved him/her off no problem. One time that I remember, he kept honking and honking and no one came out. He went next door to the dentist and no one claimed to be the owner of the car. Neighbors started to gather and he got very upset. It was getting late and he had to get to work. He let the air out of the car’s tires and called the police to ticket the car, then a neighbor gave him a ride to work. I don’t know how he got home that morning.
Unless YOU are a POSEK, which I doubt since no POSEK would be here on the internet, and you have learned everything many times over. AND you can quote chapter and verse for ALL references to any given topic then YOU do not have the right to say 1,000% what is allowed and what is not allowed.
EDITED
In my case, when I asked my Rav about a “giyores in progress”, my very chashuvah Rav z”tl told me, maybe you haven’t heard the story of Rus and Naomi. And that was for the Yomim Noraim, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.
Parents give children a name for whatever reason THEY choose. Whether it is after someone in the family, someone they loved or they loved the name. NO ONE has the right to disrespect that. If a person likes their name and chooses to use it whether it is their first or middle name, no one has the right to disrespect them and “change” it for them. If a parent gave a child an English name for whatever reason they chose to, and that child was called by that name all their life, only THEY can decide to make the switch to their hebrew/yiddish name and no one else has the right to do so. A teacher can say “you have a lovely Hebrew/yiddish name, may I call you that?” and if the child agrees then thats ok, but if the child says “I’ll think about it or I would prefer if you just call me what everyone else does” then that’s it.
Names are personal and you don’t just take it off and become someone else to please another person.
eggs benedict
Coffeefan, are you perchance referring to the CR itself? How to stop oneself from saying things they shouldn’t especially to other Yiddin online? Maybe the tips proposed can be used before nasty comments are written and posted. Maybe people can realize that they are responding to and addressing other Jews who may be older than they are, have various experience and even more knowledge than they do in different areas. And while calming down they can remember the general and specific halachas for derech eretz and kibud which are as important as any other.
Maybe its time to stay off the strong coffee because it brings on “reflux” and allows bile to come up into the mouth or rather transfer to the fingertips and all kinds of acidic remarks spew forth. Even attempts from various threads about “getting along, respect, derech eretz” and such had no effect in taming the results of this very strong brew. It just breeds sinas chinam, loshan horah and motzi shem rah. As with everything it starts off fun in the beginning and enjoyable as strong coffee and espresso tends to do, but eventually it isn’t funny anymore and it steps over the line from being helpful to being hurtful, and the purpose for getting together to have the coffee in the first place is forgotten and that was probably some form of achdus and helpfulness. When it is no longer helpful but harmful and hurtful and it starts to burn a hole in the heart or rip and tear at the fabric of achdus and ahavas yirsroel then the recipe needs changing or the mashgiach needs to be called in for a review of the ingredients. He might have to throw out the spices and additives that makes this coffee bitter and abrasive. He might even have to put up some glass and mirrors to see who will throw the first stone. He might even find a cup overflowing with Hashem’s tears because of the tzar that was caused him.
He might even teach people to speak in first person such as “in my home, we believe”, or “because our RAV said..”, or “Because it says in…..we do….” instead of insulting people and trying to outfrum the frum, claiming that others are not as frum or are not Jewish enough. He might even tell EVERYONE that we all follow the same TORAH and HASHEM is the only judge and HE will judge us all for ALL we do and ALL we say nuch 120. Yup that’s right ALL we do and say, not just what we want him to remember, every single insult we sling and every ounce of mud we throw. He might even teach those who are so sincere that if they truly want to get their message across and want to teach someone something they should take a step back and remember to make it palatable, something a person would want to think about and appreciate. And of course at the end of the day he would remind us that we each have our own RAV that we do trust and that when we are in doubt or we have a sheilah we should always go back and trust that he will find the proper answer for us.
off the cuff
guardmytongue, you are so right. Thank you so much, I appreciate that.
teacher’s pet
guardmytongue, you are right but I don’t start out that way. I fight back when people start to talk in an authoritative tone when they have no experience in the subject and keep insisting they are right. It hitzes me on, and then it goes ups a a notch depending how far the other person is willing to take it. I will follow their lead. When it is brought to my attention I always apologize and back down. But when someone goes after me personally I rise to the occasion because that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, that is a personal assault on an anonymous person that they know nothing about and just choose to assume they do. That is judgment in its highest form. Not only that but they choose not only to share it with others but to get them involved.
Not so far back as months ago, half these posts would have been edited or not have gotten through at all. It just shows how things have changed here. I personally am a very giving and helpful individual and I am involved in those kinds of chesseds. Anyone in my community including ALL the Rabbonim know what I do and how much I have accomplished. To have strangers who know nothing about me say cruel and insulting things to get my goat on a so called FRUM website is hurtful and will bring the fight out in me. Not everything is written in the way it is read. Not everything is said and written in the way another person interprets it when read that would all depend on the attitude of the person who reads it. Many times I read a post two or three times to see if I really understand the meaning of the poster and if they are being flip, sarcastic or just plain raw.
There are many times where I will just ignore, many times where I will respond and not send, and then many times that I will respond because I want to get my own message across. If I come across harsh that is not my intention. I am very sincere and gung ho when it comes to children AND when it comes to loshon horah about what other people do. As I said, everyone has their own Rav to discuss their own issues with and hearing all this bashing on this site will get my hakles up to defend them. Am I too sensitive because I am not even two months into aveilus, that could be, I am on the depressive side. Do I come back to the CR to find some solice here and to see if I can do something useful? Maybe that’s it to. Maybe I just came back to soon or don’t belong here to begin with. That’s up to me to figure it out.
But at any case if I came off aggressive and mean spirited to you I apologize it was not my attention in the general sense, maybe only when I was fending off an attack.
back to work
As an avel, to hear someone disrespect the kaddish would be a slap in the face. Not only to the men who are davening but to all who are listening and thinking of their loved ones they have lost especially if their are still in pain from the loss. Each “amen” to the kaddish gives the neshoma and aliyah. Each amen counts. And each Kaddish is in fact the only open “last respect” one gives to a nifter/nifteres. So to take that lightly is really uncouth.
msseeker, freudian slip perhaps? Your true colors come out loud and clear
WIY, why did you direct that to OOMIS when it was MSSEEKER who made the comparison?
Knowing how the posts here have gone lately you will be called a Masser for calling the police.
I would say that the problem begins when anyone brings anything in from lets say the Shulchan Aruch because there has been many seforim and Rebbeim who have expounded on and explained the Shulchan Aruch as well. Many seforim have been written with answers to various questions. And no one can know all of them unless you area a RAV who sits and learns all day or knows where to look things up. That’s my point. WE all know what we know, and we will all bring down just what we know to prove our own point and that is why someone else will bring down a differing view and in many threads it becomes a discussion in Gemarah. That is what chavrusah’s are all about, discussing a certain sugiah from different perspectives till they come to the same conclusion.
So what one person believes is an “issur” for instance like being on the internet for one thing which most poskim will say is assur, others say its not, and many will find the right Rav to give them the answer they want. I wonder if all the Frumest of the Frum even asked their OWN Rav if it is ok for them to be here to begin with. So much for issurim, and then there is one of the biggest ISSURIM that you seem to wish to look away from and that is Loshan Horah and motzi shem rah? Why do you ignore those issurim.
Really what’s the point, we are just going to get nowhere as usual.
OK, maybe it was MY mistake. I thought this was a blog site for people to help each other. I was not under the impression that this was an “ASK THE RAV” website where people actually paskened for other people. Because as far as I know, Rabbonim don’t come here to answer sheilos. So as much as one person brings down a “vort” or halacha from one source, someone else will bring down something from another sefer or from their RAV to prove their point. But again, that is not what I believed this site to be. I thought this was a place where Jews helped one and other and not a place where one Jew claimed to be at the hierachy of the chain and claimed to be the Frumest of the frum and crowned themselves such and therefore gave themselves the right to insult and demean others.
There is a time and place for jokes and sarcasm and that was moved to the general shmooze. There is a time for halachic discussion and that is when a person asks for halachic information in regard to a certain question, in which case the op should be encouraged to ask their own RAV. (did that actually come from me? YES!!!!)
But frum people do need a place to just ask regular normal questions or ask advice anonymously from other frum people and I thought this was the place. I guess I was wrong. Yes there are fun threads like the riddle, word game, things kids say, and such. But other threads where people ask for help should be the most important aspect of such a website. But this has turned into a very harsh and rude place to be and one should only come here if they want to put on their armor and go to battle.
Maybe the moderators should decide what Yeshiva World should be, a help forum or a bashing forum. Maybe it is only a place for the holier than thou crowd so everyone can agree and it is a place for ALL jews to gather and discuss or ask for advice and assistance. Maybe the Moderators need to decide whether it is up to them to decide who they want to advise to go elsewhere or keep allowing others to chase people away with their rude suggestions. Who controls this website anyway?
Just an aside, that is why some people are cut out to bring OTD’s back and some just keep pushing them away!
myfriend (well not really) “Kapusta – aries said as much that halacha is of little value compared to her feelings. And her open disdain for rabbonim shlit”a, which she doesn’t as much as even deny!”
No, that’s not what I said in any way shape or form. That is what YOU chose to read or understand. And that is loshon horah with a capital “L”. That is why these type of discussions are inappropriate because it leads to L”H and worse. Because you sit on your high horse and you look down upon everyone else. And once again you crossed the line big time because YOU ARE JUDGMENTAL and you proved MIKE’s point in spades.
Torah is Torah and so is halacha, but YOU are not a RAV and YOU don’t get to pasken on a chat room. Anyone who has a sheilah should ask their own RAV. And if I have a sheilah I certainly wouldn’t come to YOU, I would go to the one or two Rabbonim I still trust as I said in my post. I never said I don’t trust ANY RAbbonim, and I never said my feelings are more important than Halacha.
Let’s get this straight. YOU don’t know me. YOU don’t know my level of Frumkeit or my devotion to Torah and Halacha which is very straightforward. YOU actually know nothing but your own skewered and very limited opininio which you choose to share with this group. Had you said to YOUR rav the nasty comments that you said to me, I wonder how they would comment on your Loshon Horah b’farhesiah.
mw13, you are very cruel and cutting. Just because I told you I have lost faith and trust in Rabbonim because they haven’t stepped up to the plate where children are concerned especially in the case of molestation, you choose to rub my face in it saying that i should ” forgive those of us who might want to actually respect our Rabbonim..” And because they forced my neighbors to sell their business. Have you ever experienced something like that in your life?
If that is not the most disgusting chutzpah I don’t know what is. Have you ever felt that you were left without a safety net? Like you were a yosem all over again because you didn’t have a Rav to turn to? Do you even know what that feels like? Do you know what kind of plunge into depression a person goes through when they feel that? When their rug of emunah and belief in the people they have always trusted has been pulled out from under them? Do you have any sense of understanding the situation at all? Don’t be so snide you are only showing your complete lack of understanding and comprehension of the entire subject and situation. Not to mention the normal sense of compassion on Yid shows another.
It seems that the coffee has been laced lately and has spiraled out of control. Maybe we should stay on decaf for a while.
charliehall, point well taken, that’s what has caused most of the divisiveness here lately.
Why don’t we just clear this up the way those who consider themselves FRUMEST of the FRUM on this thread would like it to be known. THOSE who consider themselves FRUMER than others would never consider allowing Fathers and brothers to dance with the Kallah, c”v, that doesn’t happen unless of course it is a mitzvah tanz and the kallah goes to the men’s side and dances (with a gartel) with a dozen or two or three other strange men as well. At that time, there are dozens of well dressed (dressed to kill women and girls sitting on the men’s side as well) Those who THEY consider their MO brethren and who THEY consider a few madreigah’s beneath them will not consider anything wrong with it and might even consider same gender marriages because we are all menuvals and don’t understand or follow Torah. WE also don’t understand that the joy of a father and brother their only reason for going to the girl’s side is to fill their devious minds and hearts with views of gorgeous and dressed to kill women and girls and of course their minds and hearts are not to be mesameach THEIR kallah. It would never occur to these Frumer than Frum that one can also see these beautiful in the hallway or in the front lobby. But no the brothers have to rush over to the Kallah’s side to get an eyefull.
YOU bring me such pain with all this garbage and holier than thou attitude I can only imagine the pain Hashem has from this. You lose track of how far you let this go and how nasty you get, we all get. Yes I get in it to because I keep saying stop judging what others are doing, they have their own Rav they can ask and that can guide them. Stop looking to point fingers at others, where does it get us? We start the mud slinging at each other and it becomes another foolish and disgusting blog. This is not a halachik blog. It is a chat room, a coffee room for people to help each other not hurt each other, but it changed and it is not a very nice place to be anymore.
So now all you holier than thou who think YOU control this room will tell ME to leave. Well I can tell you the same. And I leave it to the moderators to decide how to get the CR room back to the way it is supposed to be, before all the mud slinging began.
One more thing to remember. Whatever you do you role model for your children. So if you show a lack of kovod to your Rav you are teaching that to all the children in the room as well.
cantoresq, what about those who voted against you? Are they stlll in the shul? Do they still listen while you daven?
Internet with filters are NOT allowed by MOST, that is b’deved and not l’chatchilah.
smartcookie, they don’t because as soon as the father comes in the ladies stop dancing and usually start crying and snap pictures. So again, before everyone starts looking for the BAD, maybe start to dan l’kaf zchus.
Who said it was bought by a non-religous Jew? Where did you get that information from?
Sternberg, Mogen Av and Heller will be open and in full swing. My son is doing the ad campaign for them. Don’t worry 2011 will be bigger and better than ever.!
Dr. Michael Solomon also put out a book I believe it is called “Abused”. You can see video of the recent meeting in Boro Park on Youtube.
Moq, here is the difference. When someone posts a question because they want help with an issue such as “I am having a problem with, can anyone advise me about, or help me with this problem I am having…..” then everyone should be able to say whatever their opinions are and bring down whatever mekoros they find.
My objections is when someone says “I have a problem with or when SOMEONE ELSE DOES…..” because that breeds loshon horah and is very judgmental of other JEWS.
That’s the difference, asking for help or bashing other people because they don’t live up to YOUR own expectations. So yes I get tzehitzed when people judge other people and start a thread about it. That’s me, so I tend to defend and protect because I don’t like this judgmental attitude. However if someone said, for instance in regard to the father/daughter dance thread…”My wedding is coming up and we are not having a mitzvah tanz, but I would really love to dance with my father, it is my dream. Any thoughts on the subject” well in that case, everyone is invited to give their opinion, and I think they would speak in a little different tone because they would be answering a Kallah. So no I don’t only advocate for children, I try to stay away from loshon horah and from areas that breed it. Can you understand the difference. And when I do so, just like Mike did, I get the same response “Well YOU are being judgmental by judging he poster.