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My motto is “make your marriage work for the sake of the children” if there is no way “make your divorce work for the sake of the children”.
Many parents forget that their first obligation is the children and their attitude is “don’t I deserve….” the answer is “NO”. The kids deserve 2 parents who play fair, 2 parents who put their needs above their own, etc. 2 people decide to get married and have kids. Once you bring kids into the picture they have to be the top priority. YOU DO what you have to for the sake of the kids. If that means giving up or giving in thats what you do. If it means counseling thats what you do. YOU do whatever it takes to bring Shalom Bayis into your home for the sake of the kids. If it means giving up your “so called good friends who mean well” or even moving to another community you do whatever it takes to keep your family together.
In this “ME” generation everyone puts their own needs before the children and it has had a devastating effect on our youth. It should be pounded into the heads of all marriageable age adults. If you marry and bring children into this world your first obligation is your kids. Do not take advice from your friends. Do not allow your friends into your marriage. Don’t listen to anyone that tells you what YOU deserve. Think about what your kids deserve. Keep working together with your spouse to make a safe and happy environment for your kids.
There are so many couples who jumped into divorce only to realize when the dust settled that it was the worst decision they had made. Why did they rush into it, who advised them to do it? It isn’t any better now so what was the rush, they aren’t happier outside the marriage, maybe they could have worked on it.
Divorce is not always the answer it is just another set of problems.
MOMof4, that’s called a live-in. Go for it!
Does it depend on who dies first?
My father-in-law remarried after my mother-in-law died. He is buried next to her. I assume when his second wife dies she will be buried next to the father of her children as well. I believe this is customary.
Rezdy, yes we speak about how we feel but we FILTER so that we are not rude to anyone and if it slips out we apologize and ask mechila. We have become quite a tight knit group here, and we don’t allow anyone to hurt others.
Although we are all anonymous, we are all real people with real issues and real feelings. So we are careful to offer chizuk and not chuzpah. Of course we make funny remarks but we know when to make them and who we can make them to, that is after building an online relationship with others. Most of us learnt humility here after saying things we shouldn’t and asked mechila from each other. We have grown from those experiences and have become a very supportive group.
Basically YOU pay what SHE asks or you find someone else. It is not up to YOU to set the price, it is up to YOU to find someone you trust and someone the kids like. That is the most important high priority. After that if you can’t afford the price you should truly consider going out less often, rather than complain about how much your babysitter charges.
It is a foolish concept to hire a sitter “every” Motzei Shabbos to go out with your friends whether it is to dinner, or to dinner and a movie or whatever and yet constantly complain how much the sitter cost. I find it utterly amusing how people try to cut corners and be “financially responsible” when it comes time to pay someone else, yet they can spend whatever they choose on the night out.
If you only go out once in a while the cost of a good reliable babysitter won’t break your budget. If you go out all the time, then you can afford to pay the price as well.
Ask yourselves this “how much is peace of mind worth to you?” But of course, this is only MHO.
Everyone has different financial situations and different concepts of what is important or not. This is not something you should be discussing “after” engagement where disappointments can sour things. These are the things that both young man and young woman should be discussing during dating and both sets of mechutanim should discuss when they meet. Even the shadchan should know something before setting up a couple.
A young Kallah whose sisters all received a list of gifts from their chassanim and gets very little might feel very uncomfortable, unless she is prepared in advance and realizes that the young man and his great family is really all the “gifts” she needs, and everything else will come in good time.
One should try to keep things even between their children and never show favoritism. Nor should they try to get more for one child than another. But this is also a reason why things have gotten out of hand. At times, families are so excited with the first shidduch that they just pour on the gifts. Then comes the next shidduch and they have to keep up…….
If you buy one daughter-in-law a 2 carat stone, you can’t cry poverty down the line. Keep in mind what you are doing when you start out. What you do for one you will have to do for the others.
On the other hand, know what you are prepared to do and discuss that with your kids so they don’t promise things you can’t afford to deliver. Make sure your son doesn’t borrow a Lexus for his dates if you don’t want to give the impression that there is more of that to follow.
When my daughter got married (we have only one) we were happy to buy him the gifts. He didn’t have an Esrog box but my boys did so we bought him one for Yom Tov, he was shocked. Then came Chanukah, he didn’t have a menorah but our boys did so we bought him a Menorah. Again he was shocked, he didn’t expect it. When my boys got married, they had all those things already so we didn’t expect such gifts from their in-laws. Actually we didn’t expect anything. My daughter got a bracelet, ring and watch. So we bought our daughters-in-law the same according to their own tastes. We didn’t want them to have less than what my daughter got.
PBA, then we will just have to agree to disagree. ALL babysitters need to be respected. Having said that, ALL employers need to be respected as well. If you don’t like your employer especially if it is only a babysitting job, you have the option not to go back.
Wolf, I did many times, and I backed up her points and points to respect ALL babysitters and their needs many times. The fact that some here just want to defend bad behavior is an oddity. Please review this thread and you will see just how many times I responded to the fact that sitters need to be respected and their issues need to be respected whether it is to pay them the going rate, or have the wife drive them home if that is what their inyan of tznius requires. All the issues that these girls have are valid and need to be worked out beforehand and never left to the last minute.
The fact that this particular young lady has a huge ego and throws her own bad attitude into this forum and some here keep defending her attitude instead of just her points is beyond comprehension. No, it is NOT OK to basically “yell” at others that ‘YOU PEOPLE” who beg me to come babysit for you don’t know how good you have it. I am so in demand you are lucky I even bother to come to you. These are MY rules and YOU “guys” need to follow them or I won’t choose to come watch your little brats anymore because I don’t like to babysit anyway, I only do it because you people annoy me to death the way you BEGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG me to come, you are so pathetic. YOU people… you think I don’t have a life, well I do, but you keep stealing my life from me forcing me to babysit for you, like you going out with your friends is more important than me having fun with my friends…yada, yada, yada, yada………..how dare you come back to your own home and not call to warn me…. I was so comfortable I kicked off my shoes in the middle of the room and was just chillin and you caught me off guard…how embarrassing….I didn’t have a chance to pull myself together and make a better impression….you saw the real me….
Can you guys just re-read her posts and get a real true understanding of what I am saying. Maybe it is time she apologized and accepted the fact that she presented her case rudely and that many of us stood up for her points and not necessarily her attitude. I am not in the habit of accepting unacceptable behavior or making excuses for it. Sorry.
PBA, I disagree. It wasn’t the message she was delivering it was the delivery. Would you expect that or accept that from your daughter? I wouldn’t, nor would I from any of the teenagers I mentor. I would tell them if they wanted to get their message across and be taken seriously they would have to speak respectfully in order to be received and responded to in kind.
Furthermore, if you choose to notice, I stood up for the young women who are babysitters and the issues they have with young parents, who do try to take advantage or do not respect them and the job they do. However, I do have a problem with chutzpah and stepping over proper boundaries. Just because you can hide behind anonymity that does not give you the license to be rude or chutzpadik. If you wouldn’t speak that way face to face don’t do it here either. And if you speak that way face to face don’t expect sympathy or respect from those you are speaking to and who are older than you.
1dayatatime, excuse me, when a young lady comes to an adult forum to chastise the adults, she had better be prepared to be chastised herself. What’s your excuse?
This definitely sounds like you “are NOT attracted” to this guy and not that “you don’t feel an attraction” for this guy. There is a huge difference.
There are things about this guy you don’t like and that is reason enough to say “NO”. There is no point in wasting your time or his when you already find things that you don’t like. You will not change your mind, you will only look for more things not to like about him. I only say “if there is nothing wrong keep going”. Obviously this doesn’t apply here.
Its always good to leave on a high, so let your kids know how much you are loved and respected, let them know how much you are admired and appreciated, nah….it’s enough just knowing for yourself. I hope your heart is full and fortified!
Shalom Chaveira! Just keep putting one foot in front of another and eventually you will get where you were heading. 🙂
Gut shabbos.
edited
As far as the going rate is concerned, that obviously depends on the neighborhood. But whether it is a question of rate or whether you want to babysit or not, no one is forcing you to do what you don’t want to do or take a rate that you feel is too low. If you don’t want to babysit, don’t answer the phone if you don’t know how to say “no”. Tell your parents not to give you the phone or please help you by telling your friends “I don’t babysit”. If someone tries to pressure you tell them “I don’t like to babysit. Please don’t pressure me.” Don’t feel guilty you have a choice. But doing it and complaining about it is ridiculous.
i think Rezdy wants Best Babysitter award.
Two points.
1. Know what to teach your children as far as prevention
2. Know to call the police in case of an incident, save others from becoming the next victim.
BPG, what is your budget? Are you planning on making everything? Keren Aniyim has a variety of fairly priced items and it is tzedaka as well.
Dudu Fisher, Dedi, Avraham Fried, Sruli Williger, Shlomi Dachs, Shlomo Simcha, MBD, Lipa, Abie Rottenberg,
observanteen, hang with the winners and keep your eye on the prize.
Everything depends on the dynamic of the family and how the parents raise them. You can’t say that a child does not have a “right” to ask the parents if the parent has given them that right. You can’t say its a chutzpah of the child if the child has not been taught any better. It all depends on what the child was taught.
Obviously you were raised with a conscience and with a value system of needs and wants, and what your parents are responsible for and what you should be responsible for or what extras should be earned. Not every family has the same house rules, or are taught the same type of responsible behavior. Kudos to you and your parents for setting up a sense of value and responsibility in your home. But we can’t judge others or fault others for not knowing better. WE can only try to teach them by being a good role model to follow.
On the other hand if they do know better and continue to behave childishly and selfishly you can only offer your opinion; but it is up to their parents and mehchanchim to set them straight. DO NOT allow their bad behavior to rub off on you. Be proud of your good middos and the value system you were taught.
OK, here’s one from Top Gun…I love it….
Your EGO’s writing checks your body can’t cash!
I just heard that the chef at Ateres Avrohom just got engaged! Mazal Tov!
itsonlyme, you go first!
PBA, I will defend the rights of babysitters and the fact that they should be respected and treated appropriately. I agree with many of Rezdy’s points, however her attitude needs an adjustment, she is quite chuzpadik and if she would make her points without the attitude they would be accepted without so much rebuttal.
jusstsmile613, I disagree, if you don’t want to pay the price, stay home. If that is the going rate, which it was many years ago when I stopped hiring, like I said my youngest is now 24, then that is the price.
As for just sitting on the couch for a couple of hours…..that is not what you are paying for. That is the happy result. YOU are paying for a responsible person to sit in a home void of any other responsible adult. A home they are not used to with all the creepy and creaky sounds it comes with. YOU are paying for that person to handle whatever emergency situation that arises, that means if a child falls off the bed, wakes up scared, wets the bed, throws up, etc. The babysitter usually calms the child and manages to get the child back to sleep. She might even change the linen in the crib or the bed, chase you down, or sit up with the child for the hour or two till you get home. AND in some cases that might mean holding a feverish and crying child for an hour or two.
So no you don’t pay them for SITTING ON THE COUCH. YOU are both lucky when most of the time that is the outcome. But you are really paying them for being the responsible adult in the home because you aren’t. And for $10 an hour you are getting away cheap.
Yes, Redzy, continued CHUTZPAH!!
I had a teacher that said “till you opened your mouth I though you were smart” He also was in the habit of saying “don’t show me what you don’t know”….but we loved him anyway!
Rezdy, although you do make some valid points, and I did reiterate them and defend them, your comments border on CHUTZPA to a basically adult audience here, so please keep that in mind. YOU are basically NOT speaking to a group of your peers and if you truly want to get your message accross being chutzpadik is not going to do it, nor will it make it easier for any other young woman your age who happens to babysit. You are going to sour the attitude of everyone here towards their own babysitters because of your nastiness.
If you would be speaking to a room of your peers maybe your remarks and their tone would be acceptable, but when you are speaking to people older than you are who are the general public who are in the pool of those hiring you are working against your own goal, which I am no longer sure what it is. Yes you are confident, very sure of yourself and your clients. However, if they were reading this and knew just how rude you actually come across discussing them you would no longer be the popular babysitter.
Moving away from “Rezdy”, lets all keep in mind that many young girls and some boys babysit to earn some extra cash to cover their own expenses so that they don’t have to rely so much on the family or may actually be helping the family. Every little bit helps these days. In addition, some kids raise their own money to cover camp expenses or summer plans, so if they charge $10 or more an hour they have good reason to. BTW, I believe at the time I stopped hiring a sitter, I was paying that much and my youngest is now 24.
Lets be honest as my own dear mother a”h, used to say “it isn’t necessary to dance at every simcha”. If you can’t afford to pay a sitter, be more choosy how often you go out. Maybe both you and your husband do NOT have to go to every simcha, maybe you should take turns. Obviously if you can afford to go out every Motzei Shabbos with your friends then don’t be cheap on the babysitter. If the babysitter takes more money to put the kids to sleep, do it yourself and leave later.
Find a sitter that you trust and one that fits into your budget. Don’t wait till the last minute to find a sitter, make sure you interview girls early on and not when you are desperate for a sitter. Find a sitter when you don’t need one and then call them over for a few hours when you are home so you see how they get along with the kids. Then give them enough notice when you need them.
If you find a sitter with such attitude as we have experienced here with Rezdy, it is time to find another. In our neighborhood there was a group of enterprising sitters that started a babysitters club. You called them, and they had a group of sitters they interviewed and had on call. They would find you a sitter at any given time. It worked out great because the sitters would list with them, and you only needed the number of the club. It worked great for 2 years until the girls went off to seminary. Oh well all good things come to an end.
MAZAL TOV! 18 is very exciting for many reasons but first understand that 18 is a very mazeldik number. It stands for “chai” so it will breathe new “life” into you.
The anxiety might come from “18 l’chupah” which is a challenging concept. Most 18 year olds are far from ready for a walk to the chupah, so maybe that’s where some of the anxiety comes from. It also represents a separation from childhood into a adulthood. A time when you are expected to be more responsible and accountable.
But it is also liberating, it is a time when you realize “hey, I’m an adult now! I made it! i am done with most of school. I am either heading to sem or coming home from sem, either way a huge accomplishment and now I have to really concentrate on MY future. I am really in charge of MY choices and need to make educated and smart ones. I now get to put into practice the things I was taught. I am now a role model for others to follow. The friends I choose will have a huge impact on who I will become. Each path I take will determine whether I succeed or not. So where do I go from here, who will I choose as MY role models? Up till this point you were spoon fed all the answers and now…..
Don’t be terrified because you are not being thrown into an abyss. Your parents, grandparents b”h if you are lucky to have them, are still there for you to answer your questions and guide you. But most likely they will take a step back and wait for your to ask for advice and not necessarily TELL you what to do every minute of the day. So enjoy your birthday and the new “challenges” that come along with it.
Hashem gave me many talents and as I grow older I keep finding talents I didn’t know I had or never had earlier in life. He gave me the ability to sing and draw which helped me through school. I had a talent with young children and as I got older I found I had a talent with teens and older people. I have a talent to cook, crochet and decorate. I have a talent to mentor kids and make shalom between people. I have also learned coaching and the talent that goes along with it. In learning coaching I have learnt how to truly listen to understand. How NOT to “tell” and along with that have left behind the burden of the responsibility of having told people what to do. That has removed from me a tremendous “ole” from my shoulders.
One of my most famous talent is teaching the most fearful how to swim. They just seem to trust me, so I teach young children and scared women how to swim. Just another talent Hashem gave me. I would never presume that I just came about these talents on my own. Hashem is in charge.
I hereby give the mods permission to give you my email address! I would love to hear from you!
Eclipse, your cyber friends truly care for you. I can only imagine how much your “reality” friends who truly know you must feel about you. YOU are a very special person who has faced many challenges. But as you know, Hashem does not test us with nisyonos that we can’t handle (although at times it does not seem like we can’t). WE are ALWAYS here for you if you ever need a boost of chizuk or if you ever hear a voice in your ear telling you that someone else does, you might just pop in now and then to give someone else a boost. It works both ways you know.
There is no way to measure how much good you have accomplished with your kind words, your advice and your amazing sense of humor. Although we don’t realize it at the time, there is a purpose and a reason for everything we do, even finding our way to the internet and cyber-space. If there is one person in particular that you have helped through your own tzoris, your own story, or your amazing humor you have accomplished more than you had started out to, because you probably came here for the fun of it or just looking for chizuk for yourself. And yet, you leave with a title, er sub-title. In addition, I personally would like to give you another “screen name” because although you came to us as “eclipse” you really brought us “sunshine” and always brightened each day.
To say that you will be missed is an understatement as you are well aware of our campaign to bring you back when you were rudely chased into hiding. But we are so happy for you that you are ready to “conquer the real world” and have no time for us any more. Hatzlocha Rabba b’chol Maaseh Yadayech”. May you have much Hatzlocha in all you do.
For some people anything “stylish” is not tznius. Well WE made it stylish. WE started layering it because all these short sleeved tops were cute and they could not be worn so OUR girls wore them on top of tznius longer tee shirts. Then the look caught on among others and other girls started layering on the look. It is OUR frum nursing students who wear long tees under their uniforms and scrubs, and our frum female docs who do the same. The style just kept catching on.
And sleeveless dresses are now being worn on top of tee shirts, well guess what WE wore those as kids as well, at that time these sleeveless dresses were called “jumpers”.
observanteen, you have a lot to learn yet as you grow and mature. ANYTHING can turn into a problem and an issue if you allow it to be. And anything can turn into something from nothing. On the other hand nothing will happen if everything is always professional and on the up and up as with every profession and professional. Unfortunately inappropriate relationships can develop between two males and two females as well. So when it comes to any kind of professional help everyone should look for the best fit depending on what their issues are and who can help them.
Always try to get a recommendation and never just pick someone from the Yellow Pages.
If you get “emotionally” involved with any therapist you are heading for trouble!!!!!!
cum laude, Kudos!! May you always be the best sheliach for all your clients one way or the other.
WOA!!!! Let’s get something straight here, there needs to be a sense of RESPECT here for ALL, even a teenage babysitter and if you don’t have it then just stay home or wait till your parents or siblings are available! Seriously!
These girls have serious points and many of you are not taking them seriously.
!. Having the wife drive them home. We are hocking all over these threads the issues of tznius and right here on this thread a young woman is pointing out how “NOT TZNIUS” it is when a MAN drives home a young woman late at night and many of you have a problem with that????? KUDOS to you whatelseisleft, for making that point as well as other points which the woman of the home should handle.
2. They are making a point that it is “gezeila” if they take food and/or drinks if they are not specifically offered. Appreciate that they know this and understand this and take it seriously. Please be sure to “tell” them to help themselves to drinks and snacks and show them where to find it so they don’t feel like they are snooping in your cabinets and fridge.
3. There needs to be an EMERGENCY List of contact numbers and “What to do ifs” left by a phone. Have it typed and ready and show her where it is. Make sure it has clear instructions.
4. Respect the fact that babysitters have other things going on in their lives and need enough notice, so don’t call at the last minute and make them feel guilty if you are disappointed and do cancel early so they have an opportunity to make other plans or take another job.
5. Don’t think that just because you pay someone they should appreciate YOU. They don’t HAVE to work for you, so you had better appreciate THEM. If you don’t like what they do, don’t hire them. Just know it is not easy to find people YOU can trust with YOUR children.
As far as babysitters are concerned:
1. Do not expect to get a warning phone call that the parents are on their way. Because many times sitters have friends over or are doing things they shouldn’t and if necessary are caught.
2. Respect the home whether you expect the parents to come home at any minute or not. Be prepared that the child might wake up and notice what you are doing as well. If you want to be trusted be trustworthy.
3. If you don’t want to take a last minute job, don’t feel pressured to do so, no matter what they say on the other end. If you say you are busy they can’t argue with you. If you waver and say you really don’t want to they will keep the pressure on until you give in. If you have to study for a test and will only babysit if the kids are asleep make sure you tell them YOU can’t put the kids to sleep this time, it is up to them because if you get a bad mark on the test you won’t be babysitting any more. And only do it for someone you know and trust that they will work with you and put the kids to sleep.
4. If you prefer being driven home by the wife you must make those arrangements beforehand and not ask when they come home because usually women do not want to go out again. So don’t make that a surprise.
How about the miracle of birth, how Hashem allows a premie of even one pound to survive?
lightitup, it is hard to advise on what you said. Usually if it doesn’t “click” it doesn’t click. But what is it exactly you are looking for? What is your definition of “attracted”? Are you expecting fireworks or bells? Or are you expecting to think about him when you are not together? There is a huge difference.
It is very important that there be an attraction but you might not recognize it right away and there is also a possibility that he might not really let his full personality shine through the first few dates. So I usually tell my kids unless there is something bothering you to make you stop keep going. I don’t believe that 2 dates is enough to get to know a person and allow things to click because it doesn’t always click right off the bat. This can be proven by the fact that many marriages came about after do overs. It is possible that neither one of you have let your guard down to bring the best out in either of you. So if there isn’t anything you can put your finger on that would cause you to stop try to think of the positives in him and things to admire about him and keep going. You will have a better sense of whether it is heading anywhere in another week or two. Just relax and don’t put pressure on yourself.
Huvi, his obligation was to his employer and his class and not to help a damsel in distress. You were both running late and whether it was tznius or not, he probably did not think it was appropriate for you to ask the favor.
Ctrl Alt Del, Life Coaches are certified and you should not trust one that isn’t. You can’t learn how to coach by reading books alone, there is a lot of work involved in the course and if you do it with commitment you get certified if you don’t you fail. So don’t assume it is a “made” up profession with no oversight, it isn’t. There are many social workers who I now see place the title Life Coach behind their name.
And again different people need different approaches and different types of help. Anyone with a psychiatric disorder or in need of medication will not go to a LIfe Coach their first line of therapy is an MD. If they need “talk” therapy they will go to a social worker, if they need to move forward they will go to a Life Coach.
I take offense to your assumption that a Professional Life Coach is a person who reads a lot of books. That is demeaning and disrespectful. In addition maybe you should not blame the “coach” but your family members who were not committed to making changes or making better choices in their lives.
whocares, please point out where I put others down. I specifically said that we help people who are “stuck” in a situation. I didn’t say that it is better than other therapies or that it is right for everyone. I never made a comparison about that. I was just giving information on Life Coaching period.
I don’t know why you feel the need to be so quick to judge. If a person needs a different type of therapy a coach will recommend that they work with another type of therapist. A client might start with a coach and the coach might recommend he seek psychotherapies. A client may work with a social worker and a coach at the same time because WE do have different approaches and might be able to help the client with different issues.
What an amazing epiphany!
TBL, you are right, the problem is although people have it within them to know the answers sometimes they need guidance to find them. So for you learning Pirkei Avos with a chavrusa will be a guide for you for the present and future. To someone who is “stuck” they need a professional to help them understand the mishnas of life and follow through to either the rewards of the accomplishments or the consequences of their poor choices.
I try to stay out of halachic discussions but I would like to ask Zehavadad two questions. Firstly, refuah sheleimah secondly, I am not going to put fault because it is shared and no one to blame.
Question #1: If you could go back and redo that they what would you do differently?
Question #2: If it is a greater sakana’s nefesh NOT to shovel snow on Shabbos than it is a chilul Shabbos don’t you think there would be announcements and posters instructing people on this issue. Don’t you think that every Rav in EVERY shul and even in yeshiva would be discussing it and making sure their point hit home to make sure the snow is shoveled even on Shabbos?
Growing up in BP under the laws of NYC, we all knew that we had to get out the second Shabbos was over and clean up because we had a grace period on Shabbos. WE were not ticketed because WE were not permitted to shovel snow and the city could not force us to go against our religion, but the second Shabbos was over if we weren’t out there doing the right thing we would get ticketed and quickly.
You are brothers and you are an Uncle. Mazal Tov! Do whatever you feel in your heart you would like to do to secure the child’s financial future. That is extremely thoughtful of you. Any offers to help will always be appreciated whether or not they will be accepted.
Visiting and being there is the first step for being a part of this family. Helping in their home is the best way to go. Please do not be offended, as others said, if they do not feel comfortable allowing you to take the baby on outings. In addition it is always important to follow house rules, so wearing a kipah in their home might be something that will make them more comfortable as the child grows up because of the questions the child will have. You might have to make adjustments that YOU would not have considered before for the sake of the child, they will as well, but if you love each other there you will find a way to make this work for everyone.
1dayatatime, I can tell you are very passionate about the subject, but please don’t assume what I understand and don’t. I don’t appreciate your suggestion although if it helps YOU to understand by all means do so.
I am not presuming to speak like an addiction counselor, which I am not. However, the stronger that you argue that “we don’t understand” the more I realize that you are either an enabler or stuck in the parsha. At any rate Hatzlocha Rabbah.