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Some of the girls I mentored in the past went to a younger rav’s shiurim and they loved it. They got very close to this Rav. Before you knew it he had given them his cell phone and they were texting back and forth. When I found this out i was very disturbed by it. I told them that they were invading his private time with his wife and it was totally inappropriate. The girls claimed that he said they could text him any time and ask him anything. I told him that he was very young and did not understand the guidelines that an older and more experienced Rav would understand and that he was putting his Shalom Bayis at risk. After a few weeks they said they actually met his wife and she didn’t seem to be too friendly. I told them they must immediately cut themselves off from this Rav and find themselves another older Rav which they did.
It is NOT always appropriate to speak to or confide in the opposite gender even though they are “titled” Rav. Many younger Rabbonim get involved in kiruv and in the At-Risk issue but don’t know how to lay down boundaries. This can be a problem as you can see. Although it is totally innocent it is still totally inappropriate.
I would have to find out “why” s/he said no and dropped you back then. That would make all the difference. If something “better” came up and they went after that at the time I would definitely not try again because I wouldn’t trust that person. If they weren’t sure it was going anywhere and they didn’t want to lead you on or were afraid you were more into it at the time than they were and were afraid you would get hurt, then yes I would try again.
There are many factors in shidduchim many times it is miscommunication and that is why many years later it comes around again. Or it just wasn’t the right timing the first time around. However, a leopard doesn’t change their stripes, so if it was for selfish reasons then be careful and don’t get hurt again. Try to get an honest answer.
Wouldn’t it depend on what the issues were?
Helping others.
Zeeskite, I was offended, apology accepted.
Shidduchim is a hard time for everyone. Before you get into it many look forward and think it will be so much fun dating. If someone gets engaged to the first one they go out with, people look on that like “how could they do that” and rarely realize what a brocha that truly is. Dating is not as much fun as one would think. It is difficult and draining but each date brings you closer to your bashert. So try to count your blessings and remember what a great person you are. Remember that your zivig is out there searching for you just as you are doing and it really is a matter of timing. The right one at the right time. Hatzlocha.
Zeeskite, I was wrong. You really haven’t learnt anything have you?
Should I then take your role and say ” Oh, I am never in a bad mood, the world is always so bright and cheerful…so i don’t have that problem, like the rest of you.”
Yes, guys do mention names for some reason. Girls are less likely to mention names especially if the boy was the one who said “no” to a second or third date.
Maybe boys want feedback from other guys. They want to hear what their friends think about the girl, if she is pretty enough, rich enough, etc. Or if someone else checked her out and got more information than they did. It is only when they start to get serious about a girl that they clam up.
Its NOT Pomegranite, its Gourmet Glatt aka Kosher.com.
commonsense, this is how you were raised, as I was. I would not be able to sleep if I didn’t tell the truth even though I was not obligated to do so. Not only did you make a Kidush Hashem you made your parents proud of you whether they know about it or not. They taught you well and what they taught you stuck. Kol Hakovod to you and to them.
I believe that an MD would say “take two tylenol and call me in the morning” because things always seem better after a good night’s sleep. Don’t beat yourself up. Maybe you are expecting too much of yourself and therefore not accomplishing as much as you expect to. Try setting some short term measurable and attainable goals. Feel good about those accomplishments then keep moving forward. Don’t compare yourself to others, just do what is right for you and go at your own pace. After all Hashem created each of us differently so don’t be running a race with others and comparing yourselves with others who have other variables than you do.
“I don’t know why you assume that someone who is makpid on this halacha would only be makpid while on a date. “
DY, once again it was not i who made this assumption. It is you who are making assumptions. I simply implied that a bochur should be careful of his manners and not act like a “jerk” again meaning watch their manners on a date. Again to be careful not to come off looking like a “jerk” on a date to someone who does NOT understand what he is doing. I did not say anything against following halacha. My question was does HE always follow this halacha or was he just being Makpid on the date. My point being that if he was not always makpid dating was NOT the appropriate opportunity to follow this halacha since it might be misunderstood as him NOT having manners and it would be a turn off for the girl because of the miscommunication. HOWEVER, I did say that if this was his normal practice by all means he should be himself and do what was normal for him.
I hope I have made this dummy proof for all who did NOT understand me before and for all who took it upon themselves to say that I trample on halacha and so on. I suggest that a bochur not be a hypocrite and start following this halacha in the dating process if he is not normally makpid in this halacha. Can I be more clear than this. Should I give more examples? If he followed a woman into the bank earlier that day and did not open the door for the date but chose to go in before her because his Rebbe told him to that evening then he is a hypocrite.
So when I said he should be himself that means if he always is makpid he should continue to be. So are we on the same page? Are we in agreement on this? Is there a reason to argue? Did we not say the same thing? Did I say that a bochur who follows this Halacha should NOT follow this halacha? What exactly is the nitpicking about and the argument about? What part of this did you NOT understand?
Mods, I knew you wouldn’t post my previous answer, but I had to vent it out and answer truthfully.
simcha613, we all have the opportunity every day to leave of course we really can’t leave, born a jew die a jew, but we do have a yetzer harah that pulls at us every day and we do have choice so that is a great question.
So my answer is “NO” absolutely not. It is who I am, and although I get disillusioned by what I see and by the people I am supposed to trust, it is not about them it is about the Torah and my connection, emunah and bitachon in Hashem.
Amen!
good idea mods how about closing this thread?
So why not let the prospective girl know before your date. Don’t you call her on the phone to set up the date? Isn’t it better to ‘Not” surprise her? You say you are a fun person so why not use that to your advantage? Turn on the charm from the get go and let her know that you have this problem but B”H that is really the only problem that Hashem has challenged you with and you have not let it get in your way. If she can give you a chance you can promise her a good time, etc. If you are not uncomfortable about it she shouldn’t’ be. If you don’t make it an issue, she shouldn’t and if you are not nervous, you won’t make it worse. So don’t make it the elephant in the room.
Daas Yochid, thanks for joining. Yes I agreed with him after him asking me if I would call HIM a jerk if he did that. Please read the entire conversation. If you want to enter the fray, understand the entire controversy. I was speaking about a bochur on a date and his manners. PBA chose to make it a question about himself and if I would use that term about him if he didn’t follow the Halacha in a certain instance and I agreed with him that he would be if he chose not to follow the Halacha for his own convenience. After all Halacha IS Halacha whether it is convenient or not is that not YOUR position DY?
edited
PBA, why would you think that was directed at you? Why would you choose to take that personally when I was speaking about a bachur on a date in general? Was any of this necessary? Why is it that whatever I say/write you take it personally and feel that you have to make it a personal issue between you and me? Do you just enjoy going head to head?
You turned my general question and comment into “IF I….would I” and then you blame me and taunt me. What is the point of all this? “You think that if I don’t walk behind my date, but I do get on a bus without waiting all day for no women to be at the bus stop, it means the reason is I am a jerk?’
YOU are intentionally sarcastic and exaggerate every issue and then wait for others to choose sides. Was this fun for you? I won’t retract the word “jerk”, I still agree with you.
I don’t mind laughing at MY tzorus but I don’t laugh at others’.
It basically means “hot”. As in Hot under the collar. Angry, steaming.
HaLeiVi, and you should know your place. If you go sideways, then why can’t HE go sideways after he opens the door for her?
As far as PBA is concerned, if he mentions me personally and attacks what I said with his usual sarcasm I will respond in kind. It has nothing to do with MY accepting the halacha it has to do with him ignoring the question I posed which was what the bochur would do in other instances.
PBA, you asked me if I would call you a “jerk” in that instance and I agreed with you that you would be. I didn’t bring up that term you did, so don’t fault me for it.
And just as Halevi pointed out, there are ways to not be conspicuous and do the right thing both in manners and in Halacha. I mentioned counting to 10 or 5 or whatever. Take two deep breaths or walk in sideways as Halevi mentioned but there are ways that one can follow the Halacha and still show manners. And as Halevi pointed out and as I have pointed out on many occasions men learn things that women do not so the act of not opening the door for the young lady will not make him seem like a tzadik in her eyes it will make hims seem like a boy without manners. There will be a miscommunication and he will probably not get a second chance to explain himself.
So if the bochur is NOT careful in all areas of his life in this regard, dating is NOT the first place he should apply this to. Manners on a date are very important. If they continue to date, he can explain the Halacha to the girl after the second or third date and not have to worry about it afterwards.
but I do get on a bus without waiting all day for no women to be at the bus stop, it means the reason is I am a jerk?
PBA, did your Rav give you a Heter that if there are women at a bus stop and they don’t let you on first that you are allowed to follow them on the bus? Did he say that in that case, since you would have to wait a whole day that the halacha does NOT apply? Isn’t it worse to follow a woman onto a bus since basically she is a step above you and basically your face is in her posterior?
PBA, you are starting up with me as usual. A Halacha is a Halacha you either follow it or you don’t. You don’t pick and choose when to follow it. So yes you are a jerk if you don’t always follow it and just choose to follow it for one purpose.
I will ask my question again. For those who do NOT hold the door open for a date since that is halacha and are NOT allowed to walk behind a woman are they careful NOT to walk behind a woman while getting on a bus, train, elevator, entering a store, etc. Or does this only apply to dates?
My point being do not be a jerk on a date and be machmir on a halacha just because you are on a date. If you are ALWAYS machmir on that halacha then by all means be yourself.
In the price range you are looking in your best bet is a one bedroom or studio basement apartment.
Are you looking for 1 bedroom or 2 bedroom?
I would hope that in any job one uses the brains Hashem gave them. Jobs that require more thought than action might be the very ones you described, except for nurses that is.
Then he should open the door for his date count to ten and then walk in himself. That way he wouldn’t be walking behind her and can be polite to boot.
BTW, I wonder if he were going onto a bus, train or in any other doorway does he follow this halacha as well?
PBA, maybe from a male perspective but from a female perspective it is rude. I believe we had this discussion a few times before on other threads.
Never heard about this before but I believe his Rebbe is not helping him in the Shidduch situation or maybe he would be better of with a beshow and not a real date.
The gift is for the kids.
But you don’t know me, I do smile. I smile a lot, and I laugh and tell jokes, just not offensive ones.
Silver is very expensive but there are very pretty items in the Judaica store that can be appropriate for wedding gifts. There are beautiful washing cups, even those that come with towels, there are challah trays, beautiful mezuzah covers that are not silver, candle lighters, etc.
Step out of the box and be creative.
The newest I heard was a building on Neilson that everyone is moving in to right now. What is your budget and how many bedrooms are you looking for?
Zeeskeit, thanks, I know you were not making fun of the kids. But anyone dealing with the kids and the real issues would not find it amusing. It is such a hurtful issue and it is not going to get any better after the pronouncements at the mental health conference.
Anyone who does NOT give a gift does NOT expect a gift in return.
Thank you. It was a beautiful day for chillin, for walking, for watching the waves, etc. I hope everyone enjoyed it and can do it again tomorrow.
That depends on what you are looking for. Do you need an eruv? Do you have a car or are you in need of transportation?
As I said “this” particular play on words is inappropriate and not amusing. Maybe you can consider changing the title of the thread and then have fun with your car stories. Such as “Cars that go on their own derech” or “Cars that have a mind of their own”.
Unfortunately we see in the papers and online how people succumb to yetzer horah all the time. There is the issue of greed, molestation, abuse, cheating on spouses, cheating on tax returns, lying, reneging on obligations, not controlling one’s anger, etc….
The battle rages on every single day.
I’m going to see my new grandson, born to my daughter and son-in-law, just a few days after my little girl was born to my “adopted” daughter and son-in-law. And then I am going to see my little girl. Now I have one of each b”h to pamper and spoil and no matter what I find while I shop, it will be good for either my new baby girl, or my new baby boy.
B”H, both mothers are doing well as both babies are. And the big brother is thrilled to have a brother. The sisters are just thrilled to have a baby.
Zeeskite, I feel it was in poor taste, especially when there is a thread concerning OTD kids running.
And PBA, I see your point, are jokes about car accidents funny? There was a truck on the highway in Israel that plowed into…….
Or remember the one about the teen driving who swerved and killed………….
Or what about the truck who didn’t see the little kid……
Or maybe the car that jumped the curb near a bus stop and……
Or the van in Monsey who went in reverse instead of Drive and backed into Mrs……….
Hmmm, I fail to see the humor in it.