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Think, the machlokes rishonim about machnisei rachamin at the end of selichos, and all the comments on both sides.
I’m not “concerned” there is any avoda zara going on. Laitzanus, hollelus and other “woodstock like” stuff going on, yeah, that is my concern.
“Going to Uman for the Hock”
Dont.
The subject is “going to Uman for the hock”. Not to be mamlich hashem, not to experience greater kavana by tefillah, not be inspiored by the masses. The hock. The pre rosh hashana woodstock like concerts and the woodstock like activitiy. Lets focus on what was asked. Anyone still advocating going for “the hock”?
@Toi. That explains why some people get all bent out of shape?
why does everyone get all bent out of shape when a meshichist pops up and shares the party line in the cr?
Is it Adar already?
I would suggest traveling from place to place, and not having a shul/minyan during the trip itself is quite different than traveling to a place that has no shul/minyan and spending some time there. That’s my opinion, however, noone asked me……
“But don’t ask for government funding (aka “mandated services”) if you don’t comply with state requirements.”
You can only receive the funding if you show you meet the requirements. I would post the link to the NYS DOE website, but links not allowed. Instead, I have copied and pasted from the site.
Mandated Services Aid
Mandated Services Aid (MSA) is a New York State funded reimbursement program for nonpublic schools. The schools receive reimbursement for the state mandates that they have met in the prior school year (July 1 to June 30). In order to receive reimbursement, the school must have met the requirements of the mandate and have documentation to support it. The reimbursement request, or claim, must be processed via our online system. A full listing of the mandates and a brief explanation of each one follows this introduction.
Many of the mandates are met by reporting information in a timely fashion to the Department itself. For example, the Basic Educational Data Systems (BEDS) report, which is due every October, has a twofold purpose for nonpublic schools: it fulfills the requirement of mandate number three and enables a school’s claim to be entered into the processing system for Mandated Services. Other mandates, such as Pupil Attendance Reporting (PAR) rely on the school providing the state information relative to the time and effort attributed to complying with the regulation.
Filing for Mandated Services is a voluntary process, requiring schools to keep abreast of the changes and notices so that they can properly comply. This can easily be done by having the Chief Financial Officer and MSA Contact keep a current email address on file in the State Education Data Reference File (SEDREF), and to check for updates weekly at the Nonpublic Schools web site.
Guidelines, Announcement of Aid and forms for a particular school year are generally released in June or July of that year, but are not due to the State until the following January. The opening of the MSA online system is dependent on the compilation of testing data and typically does not occur until mid November. Schools are encouraged to download the guidelines and forms as early as possible to review any changes that may have occurred from the prior year and to have their data ready to enter into the system. While paper claims are still accepted, we encourage schools to learn and use the online system for faster processing and monitoring. Please note that paper claims will need to be processed by Department staff and can not be entered until such time that the online system is open. Schools are expected to monitor the progress of their own claims once entered in the system.
Schools with questions on completing their claim are encouraged to first read the guidelines and then call the Office of Grants Management for assistance. Our goal is for all schools to file correctly and timely. When visiting the Mandated Services web page, venture on to the Recordkeeping section. It has a complete listing of material that a school should keep on hand for every claim, and it will help prepare a school in the event of a claim review.
If a school’s claim is flagged for a review, Department staff may ask for additional documentation to substantiate the claim. These reviews are based upon a risk based management approach that the office staff must conduct in response to an audit of the mandated services program by the New York State Comptroller. The goal of the review is not meant to be intrusive or to tell the administration how to run their school, but to ensure claims are filed accurately. A review may result in a loss, a gain, or no change at all in the expected reimbursement. Schools are expected to respond within a reasonable time frame to questions from staff, and are encouraged to ask follow-up questions if there is any confusion on what is being requested. Refusals or ignoring attempts by reviewers to ask questions will result in little progress; resolving issues promptly will result in more timely payments.
The Mandated Services Program currently has seventeen mandates available for reimbursement. After this introduction, we will be explaining these currently available mandates. As New York State revises its academic program with the Common Core Standards, this number may change. The Announcement of Aid document, normally released in June with the new Mandated Services Aid claim forms, always highlights any such changes. In turn, any additions, deletions or modifications will be updated here as well.
Questions regarding eligibility for Mandated Services or a particular mandate can be directed to the Office of Grants Management at 518-474-3936 or by email. A listing of the mandates which are currently available, as well as a brief summary of the mandate follows. By clicking on the underlined title of each mandate, more information concerning the reporting requirement, staff roles, and claim reimbursement can be found.
Mandates Currently Included in Mandated Services Reimbursement are:
1. Pupil Attendance Reporting (PAR): The daily recording of attendance for children in Kindergarten through twelfth grade.
2. English Language Arts and Math Assessments (ELA): State sponsored tests of students in grades 3-8 in the areas of language arts and mathematics. Schools contract with Regional Information Centers, or RICs, to have their student tests scanned, scored and results reported to SED. Schools must contract with a RIC to obtain the answer sheets, tests, and reporting services. Nonpublic schools must adhere to the required deadlines and follow the RIC’s conditions for acceptance of material in order to have their scores reported and reimbursed under the Mandated Services Program. Proof of mailing should be maintained by the school, as well as a record from the RIC of the students’ scores. Additional information about this and other elementary tests can be found at the Office of State Assessment.
3. Basic Educational Data Systems (BEDS): An annual report filed in October that details the K-12 enrollment, the composition of the faculty and staff, the encompassing public school districts of residence, and profiles of the student body in terms of economic levels, ethnicity, disability, and English speaking ability.
4. Regents Exams (RE): New York State high school level summative assessments in mathematics, language, English, history, science, and global studies. All Regents exams are given in June, and a limited number of Regents exams are given in August and January. All exams are approximately three hours, and require strict adherence to the protocol of ordering, storage, administration, proctoring, correction and submission of exams protocols. Schools must contract with a RIC for scoring and reporting services. High schools may only report the scores of those students who are enrolled in their particular school during the school year; all other principals must report their own students test results regardless of where the students take the test. More information regarding these tests can be found at the Office of State Assessment.
5. Regents Competency Tests (RCT): Achievement tests designed to assess basic proficiency in the areas of reading, writing, mathematics, science, and social studies for high school students with disabilities who entered grade 9 prior to 2011 – 2012 school year. These exams are offered in January, June and August. Additional information for these tests can be found at the Office of State Assessment.
6. Calculators (CE): The flat rate remuneration for either graphic or scientific calculators for students when purchased for use on the state assessments. Receipts and inventory records are required for payment.
7. Registration of High School (RHS): A one time mandate whereby a nonpublic high school meets the established criteria and successfully completes the review of the Office of Nonpublic School Services; once registered, a high school is allowed to confer Regents diplomas.
8. State School Immunization Program (SSIP): (For New York City, Rochester and Buffalo nonpublic schools only) In a school developed and enforced immunization program, pupil immunization records are collected, verified, completed and then sent on to a governing body (NYC Department of Health, or New York State Department of Health) by a required deadline. Remuneration is based upon the total number of participating students.
9. Documentation of Integration of Required Instruction in 7th and 8th Grade (DIRI): According to Section 100.4(2) of the Commissioner’s Regulations, nonpublic schools have the option to teach technology education, home and career skills, and library and information skills by integrating the standards for these subjects into other subject areas. Nonpublics must keep readily accessible documentation on hand to demonstrate how the blending of these three academic areas into core subjects has been accomplished for the students in these grades. A complete discussion of Section 100.4(2) can be found under the Program Requirement (Models for middle-level education programs) pages for grades five through eight.
10. Graduation Report for Nonpublic Schools (HSGR) grade 12 only: (Note: This report was previously called the High School Graduation Report, HSGR). Beginning in 2015-16, principals of nonpublic schools are responsible for reporting all students who are awarded a local or Regents diploma, Career Development & Occupational Studies Commencement Credentials or Skills & Achievement Commencement Credential in the Student Information Repository System (SIRS). Reporting must be completed and filed by required deadlines. Information about reporting is available on the Information Reporting Services website
11. Grade Four Science Test (GFST): This elementary level test is given in the spring of every school year, and reported to the New York State Education Department via the Regional Information Center (RIC). Schools must contract with a RIC to obtain the answer sheets, tests, scanning and reporting services. Nonpublic schools must adhere to the required deadlines and follow the RIC’s conditions for acceptance of material in order to have their scores reported and reimbursed under the Mandated Services Program. Proof of mailing should be maintained by the school, as well as a record from the RIC of the students’ scores. Reimbursement covers the costs of administering, correcting and scanning the exams. Additional information about this and other elementary tests can be found at the Office of State Assessment.
12. Expenditure for Travel Costs to Examination Storage Sites (TSS): If a school is unable to store exams in a secure, safe location within its institution, it will be required to pick up the secure exams being stored at a neutral site. All examinations included in the mandates are secure examinations. Schools should consult the NYSED website under the Office of Assessment Policy, Development and Administration in order to file an Approved Program of Test Storage Plan, and to obtain more information about the storage site their school would use.
13. New York State Scholarships for Academic Excellence Application (SAE): This mandate pertains to the necessary components of the submission process for the state funded award program available to graduating high school seniors. The Office of K-16 Initiatives and Access Programs establish the timelines and requirements for the award. The criteria that the school uses to select its nominees must be uniform, consistent and applicable to all students; published and made available to all seniors at the beginning of the school year. More information is available for schools about pre- collegiate funding from the Division of Higher Education.
14. Grade Eight Science Test (GEST): An intermediate level science test given in the spring which must be administered and reported to the New York State Education Department via the Regional Information Center (RIC). Schools must contract with a RIC to obtain the answer sheets, tests, scanning and reporting services. Nonpublic schools must adhere to the required deadlines and follow the RIC’s conditions for acceptance of material in order to have their scores reported and reimbursed under the Mandated Services Program. Proof of mailing should be maintained by the school, as well as a record from the RIC of the students’ scores. Reimbursement covers the costs of administering, correcting, and scanning the exams. Additional information about intermediate tests can be found at the Office of State Assessment.
Mandate 15: Currently unavailable.
Mandate 16: Currently unavailable.
17. Pesticide Neighbor Notification (PNN): The School Pesticide Neighbor Notification Law requires all schools to notify parents, faculty and interested parties prior to pesticide applications in instructional areas, administrative buildings and grounds, playgrounds and athletic fields. In addition to having a school employee act as the school pesticide representative, schools must establish written pesticide notification procedures as outlined in Section 155.24 of the Commissioner’s Regulations.
18. New York State English as a Second Language Achievement Test (NYSESLAT): This exam is the only approved exam to determine proficiency in the English language when testing limited English proficient (LEP) students. It must be administered according to the rules, regulations and guidelines issued by the State Education Department, and all required documentation must be kept by the school. Schools must contract with a RIC to obtain answer sheets, scanning and scoring services; therefore, nonpublics must adhere to the required deadlines and follow the RIC’s conditions for acceptance of materials. Proof of mailing should be maintained. If teachers from the public school district perform the teacher functions for the NYSESLAT exam, schools may only claim the Administrative and Support functions for reimbursement. More information about NYSESLAT testing can be found under English as a Second Language Testing web pages.
19. RIC and Scoring Center: All elementary, intermediate, and high school level exams reimbursed through the Mandated Services Program must be scanned and scored at a Regional Information Center. Mandatory costs are reimbursable. Schools must retain receipts and have them available upon request.
Come on, he might say there is no chiyuv, but he does not relegate it to “hiddur”. In fact, he says one should daven IN A SHUL even without a minyan because of the maala of a shul. The teshuva explicitly says there is no chiyuv to daven with a minyan, however it is your extrapolation that relegates it to a “hiddur”.
if someone is truly traveling lesheim shamayim, to see the wonders of hashems world, that does not fall into the “vacation” I mentioned. Now, one may certainly talk himself into this rationale, and thats fine, just remember the only one you are fooling is yourself, you certainly are not fooling hashem.
One might, but that has nothing to do with my example.
What if you lived in a pineapple under the sea?
there is a chakira…….
According to this tzad…”the simanim are the cause that makes the animal kosher”, so, if I would split the hooves of a camel would it become kosher since it now has both simanim?
My 2 cents….
If the vacation (and I am discussing a vacation, a trip for pleasure, NOT the need to go somewhere for medical help or other pressing matter) to location X is desired because of specific amenities (eg, spa, roller coaster, hotel suite) not available elsewhere, it shows that amenity X is more important than tefilla bitzibur. to that I say, how sad, that someone doesnt understand the importance of tefila bitzibur, or assigns it a lower priority than that amenity.
Would this question be somehow related to the one on succos, may one travel somewhere where he will not have a succa and just eat things that dont require a succa?
“Why’s it muttar?”
Probably because Tefilla is a chiyuv, tefilla bitzibur is not. There are certainly many maalos to tefila bitzibur, (which is probably one of the reasons why the Rav said you dont have my haskama for such a plan).
If I had wheels, could I be a bus?
I know someone who asked this very question of his LOR. The answer given. Muttar, yes. The Ravs haskama, no.
implicate?
Are tachrichim tzanua?
For what its worth, my shul has a “summer Rav”. someone handpicked by the Rav to “cover” for him while he is away.
There are MANY Rabbonim in Brooklyn during the summer. MANY also go away, either to the mountains, E’Y or to a camp where either they, or the Rebbetzin may have a job. To say that there is noone around in Brooklyn in case of “halachic emergency” is ridiculous.
“Rebbes are by far the most vital of all you listed.”
With the advent and rise of the beis yackov movement, which has the full support of the gedolim of the last almost 90 years, I have to disagree with you. chinuch habanos is just as important. you cant write off the chinuch of 50% of the children, or consign them to underqualified, underpaid, overworked moros.
This thread is slander against yeshiva, everywhere. No yeshiva has, as a matter of policy, the goal of destroying a single Jewish kid, physically or spiritually.
The discussion became one of rabbeim, when in fact they are not the only ones who educate our kids. There are moros and assistants in the preschools, English teachers, and in the basis yackov s moros across all grades.
Someone is really bored this bein hazmanim.
“And, by the way, my comment wasn’t meant to demean teachers. I’m not the one saying they’re doing a poor job. I think they do fine; I just also think they’re compensated fairly based on how many hours they work.”
So, you agree the baseline entry level salary and benefits package posted on the teachnyc website, is valid fr full time rebbeim and moros too?
How many yeshivos or beis yackovs offer salaries on that scale?
” I don’t even have children.”
There you have it. someone who doesnt even have kids, has zero clue what teachers do, is complaining about teachers. About sums up this thread.
“You are comparing the salary of one of the top earners in the NBA”
OK, lets take the LOWEST paid player in the NBA. Under the terms of the collective bargaining agreement between the owners and players, the MINIMUM salary for a player with ZERO years experience is just over $562,000. TEN times what you are kvetching about what a teacher might make.either way, my point was not how much Lebron James is making, rather, it was your lack of a rant about his salary. unless of course you find nothing obscene about that kind of salary for an athlete, in which case, I find it obscene that you think it a chutspah for a teacher to want to be paid 50k a year.
” look at girls schools teachers. they are paid even less”
probably because there is a glut of post seminary girls who will take the job at that salary for a year or 2 until she gets married and moves to lakewood, when there will be a line of post seminary girls waiting to take her job.“Why do teachers/rebbis feel they deserve a full time salary?”
the real answer is: this is what the profession pays. look at the treachnyc website for starting salary information. public school teachers work no more than the average full time rebbe/teacher in a yeshiva.
“Therefore, the payment is commiserate with the value of what would be deemed an average compensation”
Unless you consider a Walmart cashier, or fast food employee “average compensation”, how is giving an experienced Rebbe or Morah 50k a year, above average. From the website teachnyc.net (look under salary and benefits). Based on this info, I would say 50k, without benefits is at best the lower end of the average compensation.
SALARY & BENEFITS
Make a living doing what you love. All teachers in New York City public schools receive a professional salary and competitive benefits package, earning more for additional experience and coursework, or for taking on new responsibilities.SALARIES
For 2018-19, starting salaries for teachers will range from $56,711 (bachelor’s degree, no prior teaching experience) to $85,794 (master’s degree, eight years teaching experience, plus additional coursework). New teachers with a master’s degree but no prior teaching experience will earn $63,751. Teachers’ salaries increase each year for more experience as well as education.“By the way, it is completely halachically assur for rabbeim to charge money for the teaching of Torah. ”
1: The obligation to educate a child, is on the parent, not the rebbe or yeshiva. A parent who chooses to use the school as a shaliach, is obligated to compensate that shliach for their time.
2: Why assume the Rebbe is “charging” anything. When was the last time a Rebbe or Morah sent you a bill?
3: Supply and Demand? So, where is the readily available supply of teachers willing to put in 25 hour weeks for 35k a year? If it existed, the schools would hire them in droves, (assuming the parent body would go along with it – the demand side of the equation).
What profession pays their employees a large salary and lets them vacation 1/4 of the year and go home at “3:00?”
Sports, entertainment, banking. In fact, in the sports world, there are those who earn on the scale of 8200 times as much per hour as the average teacher. I await your reply in the thread you started specifically for this discussion.
Why no similar “rant” when Lebron James recently signed a 4 year contract with the Lakers for an average salary of $38,000,000 a season. Given that the basketball season is 82 games of 48 minutes a game, he is making in excess of $575,000 an HOUR.
You dont fargin a teacher who works 20 hours a week (likely even more if teaches every day 5 days a week) for 36 weeks 50k a year (less than $70 an hour).
The basketball player makes 8200 times per hour more than the teacher, and for the teacher you deem it necessary to spew your stupid rant?
“The “no dirty words” reason sounds like something they would teach to 8-year-old’s.”
This is the reason given by the Rambam in Moreh Nevuchim as quoted by the Ramban. See the Ramban in Sefer Shmos, Perek Lamed – Passuk Yud Gimmel.
“But more likely it called the holy tongue because God used it, so to speak, to create the world, and God is called Kadosh.”
If I understand it correctly, this is what the Ramban in Sefer Shmos, Perek Lamed Passuk Yud Gimmel says is the reason it is called Lashon HaKodesh.
” There’s a concept of ‘naval birshus haTorah’. There’s a concept of ‘es past nisht’.”
who better than to guide you along the path of what “past” and what not than your rav? there is also a concept called chassid shoteh.
“The community he is a part of, 🙄”
I see, so, he should go to the “community school”. Excellent.
“He has to have a shul where he regularly davens in, he sent his kids to a fan somewhere in the neighborhood, who does he ask shaylos to locally”
Unless his shul or his Rav run a school, I dont see where this is headed.
“People don’t live in a vacuum (even though they might think they do)”
The schools arent operating in a vaccuum either. Which takes us back to the letter writer.
Perhaps if you could send the letter writer a list of “community schools”, he can identify what community he belongs to and knock on their door.
@ coffee Addict.
So, which “community” has a responsibility to the writer of the letter that is the cause for the current discussion?
“it’s about standards”
If it doesnt meet the torahs standard it is prohibited, if it does, it is permitted. why do you need a standard different than the torahs? who better than help define the torahs standard for you, than your rav?
“when you become part of a community”
Lakewood is a “community”?!!?!??!?!?!!!??
What good are choices, if they are not available to you.
The point made by the OP is not new. Ten years ago, brokers were telling people not to close on a house until they had a confirmed admission to school for their kids.
@Ferd. to paraphrase someone else, you truly are talking out of the wrong end. So, THREE years ago Hatzalah of BP issued such a warning, yippeee!!!!. I’m IN woodridge during the summer. Have not heard a SINGLE word about anyone interfering with hatzalah frequencies. Not even a sign hanging in shul. Granted, I dont daven in every shul in woodridge and perhaps a simple measure like that was taken in SOME shuls, considering it is such a “vital” concern, why is the story of a confiscated radio on YWN and a WARNING anytime in the last 2 weeks, not? Sounds to me, like someone is interested in “hock”, nothing more, nothing less. YWN is great manure spreader.
So, we have 2 kids, likely not the only 2, who either have nothing else to do (or are not allowed to do anything else) but listen to the hatzalah frequency, and as an added bonus they believe it is “fun” to respond to the dispatcher using the identification of known members. Hatzalah issues a “warning” that this type of “entertainment” is dangerous, and the ONLY thing fit to discuss is who gave anyone the “right” to confiscate the radios?
Lets expand the discussion.
. dont these “kids” have ANYTHING better to do with their time? why not?
. if they are “kids”, who is supervising them and how they are spending their time?
. why did it take TWO WEEKS for hatzalah to issue a warning about something so dangerous (article said it has been going on for 2 weeks”)
. why is the headline “story” about 2 kids who were caught, the headlline 2 weeks ago should have been, these radios are dangerous, dont abuse them, or give them to kids who cant make proper decisions regarding their use.In classic ywn fashion, the point of the story is completely lost.
Change the term from illegal use of to reckless use that endangers the life of private citizens, does it change what law enforcement or even a private citizen may do?
So they learned in brisk for a year or 2. they also learned in the Mir, BMG and other Yeshivos too.
better is where you shteig the most. for some it might be brisk, for others it might be any place but brisk.
my point was the applicant pool.
How many of todays “gedolei hador” learned in brisk? How many consider the brisker rav, or his sons to be their rebbe muvhak? how many bachurim who actually learned in brisk consider themselves briskers? who cares? Last I checked learning by the brisker rav, or his talmidim was not a criteria to determine ones level of lomdus, bekius, charifus or yiras shamayim.
“Besides for the practical aspects of having gone there i.e shidduchim,”
I have NEVER heard the father of a girl in shidduchim, or a girl in shidduchim express the requirement that he chosson must have learned in brisk (im sure this is a must for real briskers, which would make it a super tiny minority of people).