apushatayid

1: You assume to much. “If” was not meant as you assumed it to be, therefore your question is moot.

2: Yes, it was an eitza tova on my part, in fact I would go further and state that based on the current feedback from shadchanim they should make it a requirement.

3: Again, your assumptions. Why do you maintain that he feels under appreciated and not merely under compensated?

Truth be told, I personally believe if we had less whining shadchanim, that would be a good thing. Hashem will find other ways to bring people together. Harbey shluchim lamakom.

“Their best leverage is when the singles come to meet them initially,”

Let them use it. Plumbers and electricians do.

“but as stated above, shadchanim don’t do so because they aren’t comfortable doing so,”

As are many new plumbers and electricians, and they end up in disputes with their customers as well.

One can not expect to deal with people throughout a process that can take months and months, as as advisor, a friend and confidant and then suddenly at the end of the process it is suddenly a business. If it is a business transaction as codified in halacha, then let a contract, written or oral, be drawn up upon commencement of services. Both sides will stipulate what is expected from the other, and this way there will be no misunderstandings.

“Of course it has, and will, and when you make a simcha, b’sha’h tovah, you’ll do the necessary research to find out what it is at that time.”

OK. I took the bait. I asked my Rav who married off a child in the last 12 months. I asked him point blank, what is the halachicly specified going rate to give to a shadchan in OUR community. He answered that to the best of his knowledge, there is no halachicly set rate. He said he asked his own Rav who told him that he gets the sense that there is a going range, but no specific set rate, so, absent any prior agreed upon amount, and depending on ones financial situation they should use their seichel whether to give from the lower end of the range or from the higher.

“Thats an amazing idea. Work on it!”

I’m not “the rabbonim”, or a member of said group. Nor am I a shadchan with any vested interest in such a takana being created. Apparantly the Rabbonim see no need to institute such a takana either. so, I throw it back to the whining shadchanim to work on it, if they feel it is needed.

“It does, l’halacha. What do you mean, “let it”?”

Halacha has not established the “going rate”, unless the anonymous rabbonim behind the $2000 claim on SYAS are “the established halacha”.

“When you say, “establish”, do you really mean, “to publicize”?”

No, I mean establish. As in each community should institute what is considered an acceptable range normal range. There are takanos for everything else, rabbonim can institute a takana for this too.

“I lost you there. If there’s no rate set by the market, then the market sets the rate? What does that mean?”

That means, let the market go and determine a rate. Perhaps not enough people are familiar with this particular halacha and not much has been done to establish what is “normal”. Perhaps if people were aware of what was going on some norm might be established.

“That obviously would depend on what they would pasken is the market rate for the community involved.”

So, it does not depend on the shadchans personal feelings either now, does it. Why do you malign someone who gives an amount less than what you believe is THE proper amount.

“The definition of community is also something needing psak.”

As would an “inter community” shidduch.

“L’maaseh, it rarely, if ever, ends up in beis din, but someone needs to consult with a posek before unilaterally deciding what or how much to give, because it’s a halachic issue and not dependent on personal whim.”

One must also consult with a halachic authority before unilaterally deciding to malign a whole bunch of people because their personal whim calls for $2500 and they only got $750 or a candy dish.

My final thought on the matter is. If the halacha states that in absence of a pre arranged agreement or a pre determined market rate set by beis din (or the market), then the shadchan is not the one who determines the market rate, the market does, and that includes those on the receiving end of the service as well.

So, who establishes the market rate? Who established that BT and BT’s children have one rate and FFBs another? Is the BT rate some sort of discount off the list price?

Market Value. The halacha is clear, that is undeniably true.

What is not clear, is the defined market value of this “service”. Clearly some people feel the market value is a candy dish or some other tchachka while others feel it is $1000 or more. I’m sure in some neighborhoods the value is more clearly defined than in others. I’m no expert in choshen mishpat in general or the laws of shadchanus in particular, what does the halacha say one is required to pay when there is no clearly defined market value for a certain service as seems to be the case here? Lets take it one step further, exactly how is this “service” called “shadchan” performed? What services can be reasonably expected? Is there possibly a correlation between services rendered and the value of the service provider? Is it based on time (say $50 an hr and time spent is calculated), is it based on frequency of interaction, the number of services performed (say, intros and phone number swapping, with post date hand holding an added service with gretaer market value)? Perhaps once the fair market value is determined, we can apply the halacha. Until then some maintain market value is a candy dish while others $1000, to avoid all confusion or any potential claims, the shadchan should stipulate their fee up front.

Anyone should feel comfortable asking for watever they feel their services are worth. If the plumber feels his services are worth $60 an hr, then that is his fee. If he feels it is $160, then let him charge it. He will learn soon enough what rate the target market can/will bear. Same with shadchan. if your relative wants $1000 for a successful shidduch made, let him/her stipulate that up front.

What he appears to be saying is that hashem knows the reason why people are rewarded a certain way even if their actions are not necessarily different that others around them (the chachamim told her, others do the same and did not merit this).

Where are the salt spreaders?

Maybe he agrees that the svara of Reish Lakish is also a good one and it is the passuk that tips the scales that it is in fact assur.

This is copied from the YWN homepage where the entire article can be found.

This has to be nipped in the bud now, because as the article says…

So, he is basicly saying anyone who claims to be a “rabbi” is entitled to respect, recognition and acceptance (as a religious authority). Does this mean “rabbi” sally sherman of the rainbow coalition congregation of anywhere usa is entitled to the same religious respect, recognition and acceptance too? Where does he draw his line? Surely even HE draws a line somewhere. He happens to be on the wrong side of the line drawn by even his colleagues in the RCA and IRF.

not a lot has changed in 5 years, has it 🙁

next time someone says, say it dont spray it, think of kimchis and her sons.

if you send me the letter, i will be your classmate, perhaps your roomate (assuming you use deodorant on a regular basis), maybe even your siss.

that was an american girl doll, not a baby.

Disagreeing with how something is done, does not mean you disagree with what was ultimately done. They obviously dont like the “how”, because now that a precedent is set, this line of thinking can be used against anyone, no matter what the area of halacha. They are trying to protect their overall base. Bottom line, what do they say about this particular person in this particular area of halacha?

Or, one can look in the Shulchan Aruch, Orach Chaim, Siman Aleph, sif heh, and Mishne Berura sif kattan Yud Gimmel.

next year will be too late. by then someone will have hit upon the idea to hit you up for a donation, which will assure you of at least 4 “gedolim” visiting all the casinos on the east coast to play kvitlach on your behalf. guarenteed to play the entire night of nittel, taking into account all stringencies regarding when night starts and when it ends, and also taking into account the possibility that it is night somewhere on the globe for 24 straight hours. now that i think about it, given all these stringencies, will 4 be enough?

Every day is parshas haman day.see tur, orach chaim siman aleph and prisha os yud daled.

the post is a trash filled tabloid. what do you expect to find when you open a garbage can, if not for garbage?

I didnt read the press release, but really, who cares. If they had nothing to do with the Rabbanuts rejection of his geirim, take it at face value. They had nothing to do with it. It isnt, lihavdil, a shtickel from R’ Baruch Ber that you have to parse and be medayek in every line.

its why i use disposable.

people were getting confused by all the messages coming out. turns out shadchanim were setting up 20 year old guys with 30 year old girls. perhaps once they hit the reset button and come out with a clear and unambiguous message more people would get on board.