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I think it is a kiddush hashem when people gather at the request of rabbonim, whatever the reason, or even if no reason.
“One that has guys who can potentially go to Tzvi Caplans yeshivah”
I dont think it is a good idea for anyone to learn in a yeshiva where the level of respect for the rosh yeshiva is so low that one can refer to him by his name.
Sorry to derail your thread, but it is a pet peeve of mine when people speak about rabbonim and talmidei chachamim this way.
“I find it difficult to beleive that would happen in an Ashkenazic shul.”
I find it difficult to believe that it happens in an ashkenazic shul. He should follow the derech of this “sephardic mashgiach of a charedi yeshiva” and try to be close to his mechallel shabbos cousin, so he could try and influence him to once again keep shabbos. by simply cutting ties with him, he is basicly saying, get lost, go be mechallel shabbos I dont care. this mashgiach has it right.
” the yeshiva guys learn so much and work so hard so if they want to get drunk and have fun once a year, why not? “
a bachur tried that in beis din and the dayan told him, hope you had fun, now pay the orthopedist bills incurred by apushatayid when you decided in the name of having fun to act recklessly and cause bodily damage to someone.
Does Libisumei mean, to barf all over the place and make sure the entire area stinks like vomit?
I think he means to say that frum people do aveiros on purim because they they mistakenly think they are doing a mitzvah.
Not sure if Avraham Avinu ever set foot in Sepharad.
“The Rambam seems to disapprove of women learning in most situations.”
Actually, if you reread the Rambam cited in the opening message of this thread as well as the mechaber in reish mem vav sif vav, what they disapprove of is teaching them (see the Rma who qualifies this as well and states there things we must teach them), not if they learn something on their own. If they do learn something they earn schar on the level of aino meztuva vioseh. the value of that schar is HKB’H’s domain, not ours.
“Paskening the Halacha whether it is a Mitzva or not IS within our bounds of Lo Bashomayim He.”
So, why dont we see what the shulchan aruch has to say about this. Why not start in siman reish mem vav (yoreh deah)sif vav. Continue with the rma and the nosei keilim.
The mechaber does say that even tough she has no mitzvah of talmud torah, she does earn schar for learning. Since hashem is the one who awards the schar, I think it is best left up to him to determine the value of the learning and the schar given.
“Unless the answer is “nothing”.”
On what basis can we agree it is nothing? thats hashems job, not mine or yours or any of the erudite scholars who populate the coffee room.
respond the way a yid should. unsure how, ask your rav.
I’m dressing like hevel. which accurately describes most of the things said here.
“HKBH will decide who puts in more effort.”
which is why the answer to “how much is it worth” is, only hashem can assign a value. each person and his or her circumstances are different.
“How much is a woman’s Torah worth”
That is up to Hashem.
Whatever the value of my own torah learning, half its schar belongs to my wife.
Either you missed the part about “if you can safely make it” or you dont care and are simply looking to take a swipe at “frum yeshivos”.
Typically, adults are ones who drive carpools, not kids. Similarly adults are the ones who drive the school bus. If you trust their judgement when heading out to shul or some other place, then you can trust their judgement if they feel it is safe to drive their kids to school. Unless of course you subscribe to the school of thought that people are incapable of sound judgement, and require the government to legislate it for them, but that is a red herring.
“frum yeshiva open during snowstorms”
Frum shuls were open too. Perhaps they should have remained shuttered as well.
“They’re going to have to make up the work that their classmates did and they miss the socialization that the other kids who attended that day get.”
This is such narishkeit.
Socialism is a red herring to the discussion.
I’m sure more than one person asked him what bracha one makes on pizza. and why does it matter?
Am I the only one who thinks kfb and iak are the same person?
You possibly are.
I’m not sure the insurance companies care about the lomdus of the situation, the person who got hurt certainly doesnt care. all they care about is who is responsible to shovel so they know who to sue.
no, just googling ability.
im the real rocky. anyone see bullwinkle?
I’m sure the shulchan aruch covers this topic as well. in nyc, the law does cover the topic of sidewalks and clearly delineates the responsibilities of property owners and the city as it relates to the sidewalk. i have yet to hear my rav state that the laws of nyc run contrary to halacha. im sure halacha covers the topic publicising those who dont shovel their snow. i assume ywn and its moderators are familiar with those halachos are approve only the content that is allowed by halacha.
OK. time for new glasses. I originally opened this thread because I read “Brisker Eggnog Kosher Or Not”
this is why we only have bakery cookies at home. the worst that will happen is that we will have to buy cookies from 2 different bakeries.
Put your husband on a diet, this way you can eat all the cookies. Yours, and your neighbors.
where was this simpleton during the dating process?
can the shadchan be paid with chulent? would it matter if it was served in a fancy candy dish?
As long as it saves the lchaim for you.
“how much money is spent in other clearly less important areas of wedding expenses.”
In truth, here is where AZ is right. The role of the shadchan has evolved from one of facilitating a meeting between a boy and a girl to one of pinkerton detective, babysitter, mother, shrink, ego booster, ego massager, whipping boy and this is all before the boy even says yes to agree to see a girl. Once that happens, the process repeats itself to some degree depending on how desperate the girls side is. Then, the shadchan must play telephone tag to arrange a meeting between the two and again after the meeting to see how each side wants to proceed, and then the game starts again. Of course, by then, a different Pinkerton detective has uncovered some whiff of an allegation that the girl may have been a bed wetter until she was 4 years old and she may have sucked her thumb well into her 1st grade year resulting in further investigations, research and analysis, further delaying a possible second meeting. By the time it is agreed to, both sides dont even remember the 1st meeting. This process intensifies if this progresses to a third, fourth or a fifth meeting. By this time, half the Pinkerton agency has done some work on this shidduch, the shadchan has a dossier 75 pages thick on each person, another 45 pages on the family and even a 125 page magnum opus on the elte bubbes from Vilna and Riga down the peddler they both purchased their tichels from.
Now, a crack team of investigators is surely entitled to the going rate that any licensed PI firm makes in a particular region. I’m sure a quick search on monster.com will yield the going rate for this industry. Either we pay the Pinkertons, er shadchanim, their proper due, or we go back to the way shidduchim used to be done. A shadchan propsed female a, for male b. If their Rav, Rebbe, Rosh Yeshiva, neighbor or other trustworthy yid said they were fine upstanding yidden, the shidduch was considered. shadchan would give the male the phone number for female, tell him to call tuesday between 9 and 11 and that was it. Until we go back to the sensible way of doing things, $1500 to a shadchan for a shidduch is a bargain.
“(I’m sure APY would simply have their child sit at home and not go on dates, because after all bas ploni l’ploni and Hashem is mizaveg zivugim. I have no doubt that APY does nothing for parnassah either, because we know that hashem arranges for our parnassah as well).”
If you define hishtadlus as running to every shadchan who hangs a shingle, those who dont know you from adam, grasping at every straw as befits a desperate human being, then you are right, I did not put in the proper hishtadlus when it came to my own shidduch, and I will not put in the proper histadlus into marrying off my children.
The clever marketing campaigns that breed and feed the mass hysteria that surrounds shidduchim these days is what makes people do stupid things when it comes to shidduchim, including treating shadchanim like trash. Desperate people do stupid desperate things. Those who know there is a ribbono shel olam in this world do not buy into the hype and hysteria.
Oomis, since you read the FJJ this week, perhaps you saw the letter to the editor signed by the 19 yr old girl in shidduchim. she articulated exactly what you said from the perspective of the girls who are expected to be the marriage partners of these boys.
SYAG: harbe shluchim lamakom. if the bas kol called out bas ploni liploni, it doesnt matter what this shadchan or that friend or neighbor thinks, says or does.
DY: You liker going in circles. I get dizzy, so I am getting off at this stop. You wrote. “Shulchan Aruch should be sufficient.” I agree, the shulchan aruch and its commentaries thoroughly cover the halachos regarding contracts, written and oral. They should be utilized in this area as well.
when money is discussed up front it sets a reasonable expectation from the payer that the payee will perform some sort of service on their behalf. when those expectations are not met, there are disgruntled customers and payers. I hate to say it, a services contract that will hold up in beis din outlining the responsibilities and obligations of both sides, is the shadchans best defense to avoid receiving a candy dish as shadchanus.
if the gemara isnt concerned with her ruchniyus, why are you. she made a decision not to perform a mitzvah she wasnt obligated in, the gemara doesnt question why, why is everyone else. the gemara is focused on her sons who do have a chiyuv, at least midirabanan, and as the rishonim and achronim discuss he chiyuv of chinuch vis a vis her sons, but as far as she is concerned, the gemara doesnt care. why does everyone else?
lunch
“A Shadchan relative of mine”
We know for certain their is ill will. this thread proves it. ill will on both sides. just because you and I dont know how many have ended up in a din torah is irrelevant.
“As I said, I don’t think it actually happens.”
The OP is proof it happens.
i cant believe either of you think people spend even a minute on your posts. what gaava! 🙂
The meforshim mention this story is also brought down in the yerushalmi brachos. there it is recorded that he also killed his son, who was trying to protect his mother and he himself was also killed in the struggle.
while you are drawing conclusions, why didnt you also conclude that it is best to shave ones moustache like the amish do. no moustache, no lentils stuck in it. no stuck lentils, no dead wife.
you could also conclude that your husband shouldnt drink wine, or anything stronger, since the gemara tells us they plied him with wine to try get him to reveal where he hid the wallets. perhaps he killed his wife in a drunken rage.
not sure about your situation, but my mouth is salivating at the thought of kibbe and ptcha at the same shmorg.
halacha is biased, to the ratzon hashem. there may be disagreements exactly what that is sometimes, but that is not due to any negative, c’v, with the torah or the ratzon hashem.
if i know it exists, i will lose one of my excuses not to swim. id rather not look for it 🙂
If I’m not mistaken the gemara will say we are talking about a succah that is daled by daled. No matter the time of day a succah this size will always have tzeil from the walls not schach.
“Theoretically, the shadchan can bring the mechutan to an arbitrator or beis din, who will determine whose idea of the going rate is accurate.”
So, to avoid the bickering and potential bad blood, why not do it now. “Askanim” run to rabbonim to get their signatures on everything else, why not a going rate?
not even sure if nyc has a jcc, let alone one with separate hours for men and women.
Hmmm…my daf yomi calendar says that succah is starting tomorrow (wednesday).
“because they can only expect the going rate, not more.”
Still, nobody here has stated what the “going rate” is. Sure, everyone can ask their Rav. If their Rav tells them $450 and the shadchan reasonably expected $950 what then.