apushatayid

I just returned from another weekend in the Catskills (South Fallsburg area) and again, I did not see all the negativity everyone is worried about.

Not in the colony where I stayed, not in the colony next door where I went to daven mincha on shabbos or the colony up the road where I davened maariv sunday night.

Not in Walmart motsai shabbos at 2am on an emergency run for childrens motrin or shoprite at 2pm doing grocery shopping.

I think that all those who feel there are serious “issues” are in the wrong place at the wrong times and should learn from the vast majority of us how to behave.

I find it highly offensive that people use such broad brushes and are terribly mekatraig on whole groups of yidden under the guise of “kavod shamayim” and “preventing chillul hashem”.

I’m surprised that there are only 5 responses top this thread as I write this considering everyone and their uncle has an opinion on every “problem” that faces us today.

I want to publicly thank the people who stopped to offer me assistance on Rt 17 when they saw me there with my car.

To the person who stopped and said “I have nothing to offer except my presence, so you dont have to stand on the side of the road, alone,” Yasher Koach and thank you.

To the couple who stopped and offered cold drinks and pastries while I was waiting for AAA, thank you.

To the numerous people who slowed down and asked if I needed assistance in any way, thank you.

To the gentleman who saw me waiting on the side of the road at the Rock Hill Service Station (where I was towed by AAA), who stopped and asked if everything was OK and how he could be of assistance, thank you.

Your chessed and offers of assistance should be a zechus for all klal yisroel.

I hope this thread will generate at least as many responses as any other thread offering much fodder for the kategor as we head into Tisha Bav.

ef613. I dont live in Lakewood (and I can count on one hand how many times iv’e been in lakewood), but I’m led to believe that there is a Rav in every complex (as you call it). If you truly believe there is a problem, take it up wit the Rav. Presumably he also has to walk by these women on the way to shul, the beis medrash or wherever he may go on shabbos as well, and sees the very things you do and should have no problem comprehending what you are worried about. I am assuming that had the Rav of your complex addressed this “issues” you would have pointed it out.

Here is something interesting.

http://www.ou.org/torah/dafyomi/5763/011703.htm

http://www.star-k.org/kashrus/kk-mitzvos-shavers.htm

Unfortunately, they do not quote the Siman in Igros Moshe. I’m sure someone with a Yad Moshe will find it rather easily.

Max Well. when are you available for chazaras hashiur?

When I was 21 my Rebbe told us, if you wont wear it on a date, dont wear it to davening. A reference to the dusty smashed hats and filthy, sometimes torn, jackets we would haphazardly throw over our shoulders and precariously perch on the backs of our heads.

Like I said. Please tell me what sefer, – as they say, chapter and verse, – states it is ASSUR to shave if you are not shaving off what you are not supposed to or using an implement that you are not supposed to.

“So far we have citations from the Chazon Ish, the Chofetz Chaim (in Machne Yisroel), Rav Kanievsky (in Ishei Yisrael) and the Pele Yoetz that one should maintain their beard and shouldn’t shave. Is their any heter anywhere that can be cited that does allow a Yid to forgo his beard?”

Strictly, halachicly, speaking. In these citations it is not said that it is ASSUR to shave, please quote from the above that it is ASSUR to do so ( i think it says it, or it speaks strongly about not doing it doesnt cut it). As such a heter is not needed to for something that is not assur.

As an aside, I was approached by my Rabbeim a number of times in my yeshiva years when I was lazy and didnt shave or take a haircut and asked in a joking manner “did you take on nezirus?”

Doesnt Moshe give them mussar for giving consideration to their animals before their children (according to Rashi)? I wonder why Moshe didnt give them mussar for being more concerned about their Yerusha than their cousins shidduch?

People will accept tochacha when they believe that it is given through proper motivations. If someone believes that a person is motivated by some sort of holier than though attitude they will tune out everything said. If you truly feel that you are motivated by nothing more than standing up for the kavod of hashem, then go ahead give tochacha.

try hebcal.com it works very well with my bbery and synchronizes nicely with my outlook calendar too.

Here we go again…..

Re: Mourning the 3 weeks/9 days. Rav David Orlofsky gave a lecture a few years ago in NY during the 3 weeks (it may be online somewhere) and part of his discussion was “how serious are we about mourning the churban”. He said the following tongue in cheek, but it is so true. How much does the aveilus of the three weeks really mean to us when in summer camps on the 10th of Av kids are lined up at the edge of the pool counting down to chatzos or the camp band sets up after breakfast, and then after its big countdown to chatzos starts a concert. Exactly what lesson is learned, other than “its only 3 weeks, we’ll have to survive on sushi and pareve chulent thursday nights”. To paraphrase Rabbi Orlofsky we are basicly saying, hurray, the embers are dying out, lets go have some fun.

“I realize that there are all sorts of yeshivos so you can be yeshivish Lakewood, Yeshivish Ner Yisroel, Yeshivish Torah Vodaas,”

Since its all subjective, I’ll add Yeshivish Yeshiva University to the list.

For the purposes of defining a “Jewish Store”. If you have a non jewish owned store that employs more jews than a jewish owned store that employs lots of non jews, whose parnassah takes precedence? Does halacha discuss this?

Mod-80. I understood you quite well. I dont think you are trying to understand me. Either way, we just have to agree to disagree over the use of certain labels.

Derech. The torah has a term for what you call those labels. Bnei Yisroel.

Whether you are an aleksander chassid or a gerrer chossid, to use your example, at the end of the day, you are both torah observant jew with a slightly different derech (maybe bigger than slightly, I am not familiar with the derech of either chassidus), and (i am guessing) there are no negative connotations to saying you are “an aleksaner chassid” or a “gerrer chassid”.

BasMelech. How modern is “not to modern”. Where are you drawing the line? Can I have a second generation Iphone and be considered yeshivish, but not a 3rd generation (and certainly not a 4th)? what about my car? Is less than 4 years old to modern? Do I have to wear glasses that are at least 3 seasons old? What about my white shirt? If I wear Nauticas 2008 line I’m not to modern, but 2009 I’m modern? How bissel chassidish can I be? On my mothers side but not my fathers side? I only pronounce half my words with a chassidishe havara? Is black on black ok? Does it matter if it this seasons style? what is not to worldly? I listen to the news only 3 times a week? And what exactly is IT that I have to be with?

Says Who. Lets rehash what you wrote.

**different culture.**

Please explain.

**speaking yiddish,**

They speak Yiddish in Monroe and Crown Heights. Ponovezh and Slonim. Are they all chassidish or yeshivish?

“mens levush,”

Please describe the levush that categorizes one as chassidishe and one as litvish. there is no overlap? and those who are labeled “MO” (what a deragatory term) dont wear either?

“womens dress,”

Last time I checked in on the thread about Tznius, everyone claimed the standard for womens dress was Kimchis. Was she chasiddish or yeshivish?

“age for shidduchim,”

Interesting.

“bsho’s dates,”

I dont understand your abbreviation.

“differnt yeshiva’s,” and “many times different derech halimud,”

Better tell that to BMG, Ponovezh, Mir, Torah Vodaas and many other wonderful yeshivos and those who learn in them.

“women getting a degree the norm,”

Whose norm?

“I can go on and on.”

Please do.

“Of course not everything applies to everyone, but in general it sure gives you some picture of the way of life.”

If someone qualifies as chassidish for three of the items listed above, 4 as yeshivish and one a none of the above, how would you classify that person if someone called you about a shidduch for him/her and asked you “is he/she yeshivish”?

Mod80. I dont use the terms.

Philosopher. Chassidishe and Yeshivishe are mutually exclusive? Please define the terms how YOU understand them.

Mod 80. So, you admit use of those terms conjures up images in the minds of the speaker as well as the listener. Those images may get you into the ballpark, but may or may not put you in the right section, and likely doesn’t put you in the correct seat, yet, we should use them?

What image is conjured up in your mind if I told you “ploni was modern”. I asked a fellow sitting on the train next to me and he came up with “small leather kippa, polo shirt, definitely does not wear a hat on shabbos and usually goes by his legal name (as opposed to the name he was called by his bris). Others on YWN in various posts have labeled anyone who doesn’t wear a white button down shirt, as modern. Still others claim you are “modern” because you grew up davening in a Young Israel (a label stuck on me when I was in shidduchim, for some reason my blue shirt didn’t have me labeled modern, perhaps it was because of the name of my yeshiva?). I’m curios what you and some other readers here would say.

“Zero tolerance for leitzonus of those who are on a higher madreiga of tznius. Praise them for it, hold them up as role models, even if you’re not up to it yet.”

Its hard to hold up as a role model someone who looks down upon you. From many of the responses written on this site, and elsewhere, I can perfectly understand why women (I’m not a woman, so I can not claim to be speaking from experience in this matter) simply dont take many of the self proclaimed tznius kanayim seriously, especially when they are men.

“There’s nothing wrong with these labels Chasidish, Yeshivish, Heimish, Litvish, Modernish, Yekkish….”

Aside from the fact that they are usually wrong, and often used in a deragatory manner, your right, there is nothing wrong with them.

just call everyone “a fellow yid”.

It is very common for someone to be just, ordinary.