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I WAS responding to you specifically though 🙂
The salient facts.
. At first not so subtle and then subtle pressure was applied to name our son X (and no, it was not a “weird” name, it is in fact, a rather common name)
. First a polite, we will consider it and then a more firm we will name our son as we see appropriate response was given
. it occurred to us that perhaps despite our misgivings halacha demanded that we listen to our parents in this matter, so we approached a Rav and presented our question
. After several discussions with the Rav, he felt it best to speak with my parents about the entire matter
. After he spoke with them, the Rav told us we are under no obligation according to halacha to comply with their request, he told us he told this to them as well
. My son had his bris, received a proper jewish name and is growing, b”h, into a fine ben torah
Homeowner. Is there a position I have taken on this topic that you disagree with?
I think non jews (unless they are little kids, or adults who think like little kids) understand that Chanukah is a jewish holiday. Of course one should use seichel. If you walk in and announce we are here to visit the sick and bring a little happiness, then yes, include the non jew.
One of my children was hospitalized in NYU Medical Ctr a number of years ago. The ladies from the various bikur cholims always offered a danish or other treat to the non jewish child (and his parents and visitors) whenever they came, which was several times a day with the myriad of wonderful bikur cholims and their volunteers that came through the hospital every day. The Roman Catholic father actually told me he had a new found respect for “hasidics” after seeing their selfless chessed for almost a week, and how they extended it even to a non jew, graciously, with a smile.
Obviously, the law of the state (if in the us) is the final say. Absent any law, what does the year 2010 have to do with it? Either you believe this is a valid expression of chinuch or you don’t.
Aries. Call it what you want. I can tell you this much, and don’t want to discuss this much further. When I asked my Rav if I was obligated under kibbud av to give a name “asked” by my parents the answer was no. You describe in detail a highly charged emotional feeling and an erroneous belief. Your children owe you for a lot, but you have no right to demand how they show that gratitude. You can ask. You can dangle the “compensation”. More than likely none of it is necessary because your own children (in the younger generations for sure) more often than not knew their grandparents and want on their own to name for their grandparents. However, despite your emotions, it is not owed to you, or them.
As an aside. How many Avrahams or Yitzchaks are listed as having gone down to mitzrayim? Not one of the shvatim was named after grandfather Avraham. not one of the shevatim named any of their kids after Yitzchak. Yocheved was not named after any of the imahos. Was Yaackov not persuasive enough? did he dangle the wrong compensation? Were the shevatim a bunch of ingrates?
Last I checked Marc Wahlberg has not asked for a photo of Ms Spears either (although admittedly, it isnt necessary, he can google as many photos as he wants).
Aries:
How does this statement of yours…..
“It is not bribery at all. It is just the natural order of things. If a child is named for someone you naturally talk about that person to that child.If you have something that belonged to that person, your natural inclination is to give it to that child because it would have some meaning to that particular child, while it would hold little meaning to a child who did not feel the connection. How is that a bribe?”
Not conflict with this statement…..
“We will not love the baby any less, but we might choose to compensate the parents less for being less than generous in return.”
What does compensation to the parents have to do with anything? What type of generosity is withheld when a baby is not named for someone that you would want it to be named for, that there is your implied threat of withholding compensation? Exactly what type of compensation are we talking about? I understand that if I had a football stadium and you wanted your name in lights across the facade, you would compensate me, but if I give my son or daughter a name that means something to you…….
I really hope that I have absolutely misunderstood what you wrote, because the alternative leaves me at an utter loss for words.
You admittedly dont go out much on shabbos, but are quick to criticize an entire neighborhood?
What you ate for breakfast was certainly partially dictated by halacha. You didnt have bacon and eggs, for example, not did you have a glass of milk with the steak that you admittedly snuck in. It may not have been a conscious decision to stay away from the bacon, but it was certainly rooted in the fact that halacha doesnt allow it. The socks you are wearing may be nylon or cotton, you’ll have to check the label. Same with the jacket and the number of buttons. The torah may not dictate nylon, cotton or how many buttons to wear, but surely it does mandate that it not contain shatnez. So, your choice of clothes this morning was in part driven by halacha.
I agree with the one who wrote “after the humiliation girls and their families go through under the guise of looking into a shidduch, its only fair for the boy or his family to pay for the date”. The Boshes payment is the cost of the date.
10 Luchos?
I don’t mean to downplay the importance a child’s name may be to grandparent or great grandparent, but Aries, you imply that bribery or the threat of withholding family heirlooms is a tactic used. Is that normal?
I live in flatbush and dont see this “problem”.
The real fraud is ignorant people passing themselves off as poskim.
Behappy. Paula Young.
You do not have to name your child after anyone. You are under no obligation, to anyone, to name your child with a name that they want.
If you are being pressured by a parent, grandparent or other relative to name after someone, there is one and only one response. Thank you for the suggestion. That’s it. After that, its a decision you make with your spouse. You had the kid without anyones help (except of course hashem) and you’ll name it without their help (of course, you’ll need siyata dishmaya).
Rebbetzin Yungreis.
(Not in any order)Rav Eytan Feiner. Rav Doniel Lander. Rav Dovid Orlofsky. Rav Reuven Feinstein.
The term “check her out” is very unbecoming of people in the “yeshiva world”.
Heres a photo story for you. A girl passed along a picture of her grandmother when the shadchan asked for a photo. She said, this is what I will look like in 60 years, be’h, if he wont want me in 60 years, I dont want him now! 🙂
Squeak. I didnt ask how the wives felt 🙂
Forget about Mendy and Hendy, judge millian, georgie and sheitels for a moment. What is important to keep in mind is that the torah demands from us “hin tzedek” (on top of many other mitzvos and halachos that can apply to a given situation). When applied in the business world, hin tzedek demands that everything we say or do is above and beyond suspicion. For a detailed discussion how poskim apply this, may I suggest Economics and Jewish Law by Rav Ahron Levine.
Ok. Now I’m guilty of assuming 🙂
#80. I have to ask you for mechila, I was not dan lekaf zechus yesterday when I saw you did not put up my comment. After seeing your most recent comment, I see why.
Regarding the pnei yeshoshua. Seeing the words inside will show that he is far removed from the xtian concept of “the suffering servant”, for starters he is dealing on a communal level, not a personal one, which is quite clear from his words. If anything, seeing the pnei yehoshua inside one might distort his words c”v and come up with “original sin”.
The tzlach btw learns that yissurim shel ahava helps a person due to the concept, lefum tzara agra. This answers the question the pnei yehoshua starts with.
You think he had a miserable marriage(s)?
Thank you for your patronage.
lundin?
10 Luchos?
Homeowner. Did I say everyone should keep quiet, or did I address a specific group of people?
Please reread my words, pasted here for you.
==============================================================
All I am saying is that those who are wringing their hands in despair over this chillul hashem, should realize that the more they talk about this and spread this story, more people will hear about it and further discuss it.
Folks: Why are we debating the “ne’manus” of Judge Millian any more than we are debating the ne’manus of another famous WB character Bugs Bunny?
This quote comes from the Warner Brothers website
“The People’s Court” has been delivering reality television to viewers for over two decades.”
The long nose?
AC. I said nothing about dan lekaf zechus. you must be confusing me with aposhiteryid, or apushiteryid or some other yid.
Trying my best. I am not stating “guilty” or “not guilty”. All I am saying is that those who are wringing their hands in despair over this chillul hashem, should realize that the more they talk about this and spread this story, more people will hear about it and further discuss it. That the youtube clip is approaching 100k hits is not surprising given the number of frum people that have probably viewed it. TPC has a youtube page and their shows get hits all the time. There are clips of Judge Milian doing what she does best that have millions of hits. Let it die, it will. Keep fanning the flames, it will pick up a life of its own.
Plant vs Zombies for the Iphone.
This will only gain additional attention if people keep on talking about it. If you google non jewish blogs, especially those that follow hair, or the peoples court, the one liners and anti “religious jew” sentiment died down after a few days. Drop it and it will become yesterdays news. I think deep down people just want to find out the names of these people to satisfy the yenta in them.
Really, enough is enough. I wish the moderators would stop all further discussion.
“Also, I was wondering how many women who are married for 10 years own only 1 wig and 1 fall?”
My wife. She doesn’t own a fall either.
Potato kugel. If its good, ill buy it.
Hey, he can compare his hypothetical wife to a house. Shlomo Hamelech compares the aishes chayil to a cargo ship…haysay kianiya socher…
To the one who commented (I forget who, as I write this), yes, I was kidding about the voice.
“Its a shocker to see a person’s face for the first time when you meet them”
Considering some of the people I’ve met in life, I’d say a bigger shock is hearing their voice after seeing their photo. Anyone remember a basketball player named Mark Eaton who played in the late 80s early 90s? A massive 7’4 fellow built like a soda machine with arms and legs. The first time I heard him speak I couldn’t stop laughing, he sounded very much like my little daughter, very high pitched voice (what made it funnier is the advertisement was an NBA promo about child abuse – it showed him as a menacing fellow, as the camera slowly scrolled up from his sneakers to his face – then he says “If I look menacing to you, think how you look to a little kid” in that whiny high pitched voice).
Perhaps in addition to a photo, you should ask for a voice sample so that her voice doesn’t throw you for a loop as well.
AishesChayil. I was not at the shiur you attended and can not say “you didn’t hear it”, but I find it very hard to believe that someone giving a shiur in shmiras halashon stated that if you are bothered by lashon hara you can spread it further (especially publicly) because it is therapeutic to get it off your chest.
Aishes chayil. You can learn those lessons from halacha and mussar seforim. There is no need to repeat this story ad naseum. Seems to me people just like to yenta and pull out of their back pocket the “toeles” hetter. Why dont you call the Shemiras Halashon Shayla hotline and ask them if you are allowed to continue to comment on this story and get back to us. No, I did not call them, and no I am not an expert in hilchos lashon hara. As a talmid if Chofetz Chaim I use the “nit shein” test. If it is “nit shein” I dont do it, talk about it or listen to it regardless of your toeles heter.
“he probably meant the word “pretty” in a different way than you thought”
He didn’t.
I firmly believe that pictures are a two way street. Whoever asks for one, must offer one in return.
I never asked for photo of a girl when I was dating, although I seriously considered it, when my 70+ year old Rebbe, who could barely see the sefer 2 feet in front of him, came over to me one day and said “do I know a pretty girl for you” 🙂
“If You Were The Moderator”
I would be an expert in hilchos lashon hara and rechilus.
“whereas in this case, it does!”
What is the toeles in repeating this story?
Wouldn’t it be better to spend more time on a teshuvas rabbi akiva eiger instead of lihavdil elef havdalos a teshuvas judge millian?
Is there a toeles in the continued discussion?
Suggestion:
All posts, in order to be approved for public view must be approved by the Shemiras Halashon Shaila Hotline.
Must this be commented on further? Whatever the reality is, spreading this story is Lashon Hara about M&H and possibly motsi shem ra if the editors edited out portions that would make their claim look better than it is.
Mikehall. Your getting ahead of yourself. Wouldnt it be better if they prepared a melava malka for the men who will surely be hungry after their avos ubanim/learning programs?