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“Most people don’t start going to their own place until they are married for about 4 years. (Going to your parents / in-laws place does not count, as that’s no different from the going over that’s done all year)”.
If I understand correctly, you are saying that it’s okay for a younger couple to go to parents’ bungalow for the summer? Aren’t they still being exposed to many other “perfect” marriages?
“3:00 am cholent will interfere with my pre-shacris coffee”
I hear you!
bpt, how generous of you!
Lard would leave me scarred!
“do you think its fair for the head counselor to pool all the tips and then dole it out as she sees fit?”
No! Especially because in the good old days, I was always the hard working counselor, so that technique would have caused me to lose out on money. It does make sense to do that for specialties, since the parents don’t know each specialty head personally.
“How would the counselor or waiter know the camper couldn’t afford the full tip?”
Obviously, try to judge the parents favorably. I know of parents who couldn’t afford to tip but they made the effort and sent a homemade gift or thank you note. Sometimes it is the thought that counts.
It’s hard for me sometimes to “judge”, because I try to see the good in all people. Even in this coffee room- some people are more brazen or blunt with their comments, but that shouldn’t determine their goodness level. Especially since we are only viewing these people in 1 setting. I think most people are really sincere and an anonymous forum is their opportunity to express themselves and seek advice.
Neverthless, I’m pretty judgemental. Usually (perhaps it is a gut feeling) I can figure out a person in a matter of minutes. This is more based on observations of them than actual conversation. My judgements are usually based on what type they are and personality…
I definitely don’t think it’s the best way of starting a marriage. Years down the line, when the couple is more settled, and there is no more immature comparing, perhaps there is a place for bungalow colonies.
I don’t know why the guys would ever want to go- unless they read popa_bar_abba’s comment. BTW some places are even open for cholent at 3 (just saying).
One should tip counselors based on how much he or she can AFFORD to tip, as well as how much the counselors DESERVE the tip. Those should be the key factors.
I second health!
“Idk why but my family makes it seem like the couples who get married at 18 or 19 are the ones who get divorced cuz they didn’t know what kind of person they wanted to marry”
I don’t know why either because that is certainly far from the truth, and would be a very insensitive thing to say to a young divorcee. I find that a benefit of younger marriages, on the contrair, is that the individual girl and boy are not yet “molded,” so they are more capable of growing together and building their flexible future…
Health, yes people who are not in your situation shouldn’t judge. From what you said, your divorce was complicated. I really hate it when people try to come up with their pshat for divorce, and assume they know everything, when like you said leave the chesbonos to Hashem. I don’t think any of the posters are trying to be insensitive to your circumstances.
But I’m sure you’ll admit that you don’t regret your children… Though your situation might have been avoided, obviously if it happened, there has to be some reason. You seem like the kind of person (from me observing some of your posts) that will find that silver lining, even if it’s not apparent, and won’t point blank say that there was no gain.
Ofcourse, I don’t know if this answers your question at all, but more has become acceptable today. It’s easier and more “comfortable” to do wrong when everyone else is doing it.
Think of even the tznius that the Jews and nonjews abided by 20 years ago (even by the beach), and how we lost that now.
One more point to ponder, hurting others might not only have to do with selfishness, but also the decrease in the value of a human life.
“Why don’t you try davening in a different shul and see if that helps?”
I see that logic, Wolf. If you are not familiar with the congregates, then you are much less likely to strike up a conversation with one of these total strangers during leining.
Ofcourse, interesting point you have brought up, but I don’t entirely agree.
We don’t see the person’s inner struggle, how many times a person overcomes temptation, rises above evil.
It’s true, each generation sinks lower into tumah than the one before, but that’s the price of galus. Obviously, the public will only publish stories that interest the readers, meaning the disgusting and devastating ones. Our world is definitely a crazy world. But don’t underestimate the goodness, that seems to be hidden. Goodness has tznius, so it seems to us that the bad overpowers it- but it’s there!
The moderator means tofutti ice cream. The company is Cuties and they make pretty good parve ice cream sandwiches. Congratulations on the new subtitle!
Health, quark was being very general. Most people DO get divorced because they have to as the “healthy normal thing”, whether from abuse, or emotional or mental disorder, or religious observance issue…
Your situation is so sad and ironic because more often than not (though not as much as it used to be), the Rabbonim push the couple to make a broken marriage work, when in reality that only exacerbates their hell.
haifagirl, we would have been shocked if you said anything else 😉
Even so, I would get rid!
popa_bar_abba, There are always exceptions, but in most cases of THIS NATURE I’m sure the divorcees would agree. Of course it depends on why they got divorced (abuse, disorder) and custody… They are most fortunate (and special) if they can see yad Hashem in their situation!
I’m surprised you didn’t understand my post, as I usually try to make my message clear, but I will try to be more specific.
By insulting, I meant that you didn’t phrase your interesting suggestion appropriately since you used phrases like “one for the normal people not leaning that way” and “what the super frum are even doing on the internet g-d knows” and “super frum won’t need to be “appalled” by the “shocking” leniencies of the others.” This use of language minimizes the appeal of your suggestion.
“the very phrase “veering towards lh” doesn’t even make any sense to begin with. Either it is l”h, or it is not”
What I meant is that your tone and controversial statements incite the thread response to be one of a lot of loshon hara.
Hope that explains it.
brotherofurs,
Do you mean blue fanta?
MiddlePath, I second that!
Quark, I worry that you might be serious…Not looking to start an arguement, but your post contains some insulting details, veering towards loshon hara. Who are you or me to define frumkeit and who is “normal” or not?
bombmaniac, sorry about what happened to your thread 🙁
From what you said, your forum sounds really cool! I hope it has lots of success!
Always young! No reason to ever feel old!
Bortezomib, You are so right. It never takes me long to figure out the “life story” of most cr members.
Mazal tov! Coffee room simachos are always extra nice!
Another point that doesn’t seem to have been mentioned, but vorts are always claustrophobic for the kallah, no matter how large or small the hall is. That’s the price of being a kallah (everyone surrounding you, hugging and kissing you, squishy pictures, etc.)
“Mussar unfortunately has gone out of vogue”.
WIY, really? I don’t feel that way. Ask any post seminary graduate or bochur in yeshiva. Ask any person learning with a chavrusa? Ask anyone that goes to a weekly or daily mussar shuir.
I still feel it is a good idea, but definitely not unpopular.
Amen! Selah!
Health, you story is so sad and chaval. I am so sorry that you had to go through this pain. I don’t like to judge (since I don’t know what’s going on behind the closed doors), but in your situation it does seem that a divorce could have been avoided. I hope everything works out in the end and you can be zoche to see the hand of Hashem…
bortezomib, glad to have helped. I meant it 🙂
Health, I’m so sorry to hear that 🙁 That is usually not the case and I know (too) many cases. I am guessing in you case the feelings weren’t mutual?
I’m reading this thread and wondering if I would better spend my time sleeping 😉 And thanks to certain people, I am craving a slurpee.
Whoa!
ovadiayosefrocks, huh?
Ms. Critique who may always know the answers correctly, Thanks for sharing your lovely story. Shomrim is amazing! 🙂
72- Wow! You basically covered all the grounds that I would have mentioned! Kudos 🙂
Trim, from the little you have said the one other thing that I can say with certainty is that your marriage certainly has much potential and you both must try much harder to care for the other (generalization: without knowing your personal situation) before you even breath the word divorce! It will obviously take some work, but it is definitely feasible.
(sorry 72, though you said it well, I couldn’t resist the urge to add my cents/ sense)
happiest, “chayecha kodmim!” Take care of yourself first. We look forward to hearing from you when you are up to it. Feel good!
mikehall, sorry, your jitters are for life 😉 You are probably consuming too much caffeine…
or on a cosmo
full of snow
that will certainly blow
everywhere you go
well at least in space your weight will be low 😉
happiest, Thank you for the update! You keep proving yourself more and more. My respect for you keeps increasing! Much hatzlacha!
adorable, He doesn’t just need a job. He needs a dignified job so that he can feel good about himself and bring in money, and perhaps spend more time caring for his family than thinking of himself. But that won’t just happen overnight. There alot of issues that have to be dealt with, and even if it (hopefully) can be done, the family is gonna be in it for a long ride.
Be general, you can say (or email or text) something along the lines of “I hope you are doing well, I just wanted to let you know that no matter what, I’m here for you…” That way, you are leaving your friend an opening, if she is open to opening to you, and at the very least she’ll know you care.
(As with everything in life), much hatzlacha and siyata dishmaya!
Let the head biting begin! 😉
Legen-dary, very interesting! Thanks for sharing! Just like the internet, its options of good (and bad) are endless…
Legen-dary, First of all I’m sure I’m not the only one that appreciates actually receiving a response to my comment. Thanks! I am quite impressed that you went down the line and answered all the posters.
Secondly, while almost all sounds well with this guy, what bothers me a little is his lack of attraction. You definitely have to feel some appeal to him. There’s a difference between an “attractive guy” and someone who YOU personally feel attracted to. That is something that you have to figure out for yourself before you go forward. If you need advice, you can discuss your concerns with a rav aware of the situation or your parents.
From everything you said about him, he really sounds great, and if it is meant to be, I look very forward to a mazal tov! 🙂
I can’t believe none of the MODs have answered my troubling questions. I was sure someone would want to take credit for all the brilliant screen names 🙂
Questions for the MODs:
Do you all have the power to create/ change subtitles aka the blurby thing?
Which one of you does it the most? (I have my guesses)
Got any lox?
MiddlePath, so much drama! I think you’re on the brink of a romance novel! If it works out I look forward to wishing u a mazal tov!!!
Enjoy, 95 this one is special for you!
Happiest, I am so sorry that you feel that way. You seem to be in a lot of pain, which you are dealing with as well as you can.
You don’t give yourself enough credit. You are stuck overcoming difficult obstacles when things are looking down. But that doesn’t mean that you are doing great. I am quite confident that you are trying very hard to be the very best ‘happiest’ that you can be. In your situation, one cannot expect better. You are doing the best with the package that you were given.
IY”H, you will reach the stage where it is easier to talk to Hashem and where it is easier to see the good. Right now though, your job is to recognize your goodness, and use your tools to help yourself reach your true potential.
You are on the way! Much hatzlacha!
Popa bar abba, Is your comment a reflection of your subtitle? Writing “I read this thread” once or twice surely would have been sufficient for bringing across your point 😉