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I am from a completely Litvishe family and recently married someone with a strong Chassidish background. Being the wife, I am of course following the shitos that my husband follows. It definitely takes and open mind on both sides to understand eachother hashkafically, though. Chassidish and Livishe mentality are very different from eachother. I feel that as long as a husband and wife respect eachother, the blend of Chassidish and Litvishe chinuch is very beautiful. I feel lucky to be able to raise my future family, i”yh, with a taste of both worlds.
I have many things to say…
chance: I believe you are finding things that pointing to items like chemicals and vaccines is a way to blame things on something that we can control… I think you realize, though… that the problem is a lot more complex than that…
RAchel: I agree that no matter what a person’s circumstances a person has the bechirah to do what is right… but it is only natural that when a person is put into a situation where he develops PTSD (which usually comes from some sort of extreme abuse) and is then misunderstood by his community or not emotionally supported by the people that are supposed to care about him, he will be confused and not be able to think clearly…
I am not saying that it is okay for people to leave the fold because they feel victimized… People need to get the help they need without being stigmatized…
Also, I think people need to be aware that PTSD is not a mental illness that is genetic, (not that that should be stigmatized, either), it is a disorder that stems from the processing of a traumatic event that happened… This is almost never the fault of the person who suffers from it… and is also something that is ‘curable’… Processing the trauma with somebody who knows how to help the person is vital for the healing… When there is no help made available to the victim, he will need to help himself through other means, which unfortunately may end up being drugs or alcohol…
tzippi: Thanks for posting all those seminaries. Many times people don’t realize the many options that there are in the US. If anyone has any specific questions about one of the seminaries on the list, ask away… I’ve been to more than one of them… and have had friends in more than one…
koma: I love the sax! If you want to trade up for another instrument, I would suggest the flute. The piccolo is pretty limited in terms of types of music it is best for… Also, the flute is pretty similar in fingering and slightly similar in mood/tone. I was able to learn saxaphone very easily and pretty quickly after I had the flute down pat.
Joseph: I want to thank you for posting the compilation of essays. It clarified many things for me.
For all those who posted reactions: I don’t think Joseph’s post was bashing Modern Orthodoxy. I found it a very intelligent and respectful opening for a debate. It seems that any time somebody offers an opinion alternative to yours, some consider it bashing and disrespectful. All it is is an intellectual argument/discussion.
Coming from somebody who has lived on both sides of the orthodox world, I understand the tension and feeling between the right and the left… especially from family members (like cherrybim mentioned) and I feel that discussing the issues openly with both sides is a very helpful thing to do.
emphasis above added by moderator
Mybat: Where are you from? (I assume you are not from the US if you are ‘finding a specialist in the states’) If you need any recommendations in the NY area… I’d be glad to help!
kapusta: That is not just a disclaimer! That is a HUGE disclaimer! YOu shouldn’t encourage anyone to not wear glasses… It can cause a lot more harm than benefit. And not all twins… even if they are biologically identical have the same prescription. There are many other factors aside from genetics that affect traits in a person. The birth process. The nutrients each received in the womb… Their genes may be the same… but any defect, mutation, or environmental factor may not be…
Yes. That is what far-sighted is.
I was 5 when I had the surgery… but I have other immediate family members that have had it a lot earlier… I probably would have had it at the age of 3 if I would have found the surgeon earlier… (We tried a patch and glasses first… and then decided to operate…)
But I’m not sure we are talking about the same condition because I had surgery on both eyes… so it wasn’t a typical case of a lazy eye… And mine did not 100 percent correct itself after I put on glasses. The surgery corrected it. I still do not have perfect depth perception (I cannot thread a needle and I consistently fail those eye tests with that fly whose wings pop up with the 3D glasses…)
I went (and still go) to a really great pediatric eye specialist in Manhattan. He only sees children and adults who he operated on as children.
I have had glasses since I was a baby. I remember wearing straps to hold my glasses in place… (they were really nerdy)
Children’s glasses now have earpieces that wrap all the way around the ears. Some also have a cushion behind the nose piece so that if the child were to fall, the glasses would not break by the nose piece. They last a really long time.
mybat: I was extremely far-sighted as a child and I did develop pretty bad wandering eyes as a result… I had surgery to correct them when I was really young and now they are perfectly straight B’H!
Any woodwind instrument with a reed involves placing the mouthpiece behind your front teeth and can technically speaking move your teeth… but I don’t think you need to worry about that unless you plan on playing for hours and hours at a time… The flute happens to be the only woodwind without a reed and the mouthpiece does not even touch your mouth… it is placed underneath your bottom lip.
I don’t think you should make a decision based on your teeth because the amount you will be playing will not do significant damage to your mouth.
Try listening to pieces played on both and decide based on tones and what type of music you like… not based on technicalities…
I assume you mean price range… A good student clarinet can range from 175 to 500… Slightly more expensive than flutes… I don’t know so much about clarinets, though… I only play flute in the woodwind family… (and sax)
By the way, long story… but I needed to switch user names… I’m really ygirl2448 from earlier on in this conversation.
Try the flute. A student flute on ebay will cost you about 125 dollars. Make sure you look into the company, though… If you see one that you like you can post the comapny here and I could tell you what I know about it…
You can also try the clarinet. They are slightly more expensive than flutes but if you get a student version and you check ebay you may be able to get a good deal.
Also, you can always rent an instrument for a few months to see if you will like it before you spend the real money…
Post if you have more questions…
I heard that too when I told people that I was going to a secular college. I definitely hear where they are coming from, but I do not agree with them completely. It is a public school in the sense that it is a school that is open to the public… meaning, you will get a multitude of different people and the administration is not necessarily frum…
The difference lies in the fact that the students in a secular college are of an age where they are able to make their own decisions. As a college student, you choose the classes you attend, and generally treated as an adult. In a public school, the students are minors and do not have the option of choosing classes and are not able to make their own decisions…
I am working with teenagers that are struggling with decisions on whether or not to attend yeshiva for high school… and I am very clear when I tell them… the nisyonos of a public school are k’mat impossible to pass on your own… The taivos and peer pressure are very real… I would not say it to the same degree about college… The nisyonos are there, but you are at a different stage in life and so are the rest of the students…
Hatzlocha
westcoast; You don’t even need an ipod… ;)All you need is a set of earphones. Just put the ends into your pocket… As long as it looks like you are listening to music… That’s all that matters.
🙂
havesomeseichel, I used to only do group projects if it was absolutely necessary. If they were, I would make sure to only meet during regular school hours and only in the library… and I would never sit with food or anything other than my schoolwork… People used to think I was an extreme workaholic! Also, depending on the class and professor, I would sometimes ask to be put with females only or to be able to choose my groupmates. In the beginning of the semester, I would scan the classroom and try to find a real ‘college nerd’ type of student who was female… There generally tends to be small groups of different types of students that sit near each other. I always try to sit in the front corner with the really serious students. I would never really socialize with any classmate, of course… but once you sit among these types of people… People tend to assume you will do group projects with each other… and then you will most likely not have too many problems…
Having been in the situation for a few semesters after coming back from a really yeshivish-type bais yaakov seminary, I really feel for you.
You will be in for many challenges. One of the most important things I did for myself was set gedarim with a Rebbetzin that I felt understood the situation. She would ask me on a fairly regular basis if I felt I was still holding by my gedarim.
Some of these gedarim were to stay out of social areas like cafeterias and common rooms (even Hillel common rooms!). If I needed to eat or take a break, I went into the cafeteria to buy food and ate it in the areas in the library where one is able to eat… Or I ate it outside on campus… I spent an awful lot of time with headphones in my ears even if there was no music on… People get the impression that you do not wish to socialize when you have a cell phone on, bluetooth on, headphones on, or a book opened… or any combination of them…
Find yourself a Rav who knows a lot about college courses and college situations so that you know you have someone to ask before the questions come up. It is very stressful to be in a situation without someone to ask.
Let me know if I can help you with anything…
nobody, I definitely do not use this manner in talking to my parents… and once again, I did not intend for it to be negative or confrontational… I meant it as a fact… ‘for those people who do not want a shidduch to be pulled from a similar upbringing than what they had…’ It’s not that simple…
One more postscript: nobody, you said: “Fact: Most parents will try to draw from the child’s form of education, school, sem/yeshiva, chinuch in the home, hashkofa etc to make some form of conclusion as to what MAY (note the word may, which means possibly not definately) be suited to their child in regards to a shidduch.”
You are very correct in my case… That is exactly what my parents are doing: trying to draw from my form of education, high school, chinuch in the home… to make some form of conclusion… And I understand why they are doing this because normally it would make sense… but not if you are not interested in raising a family the way you were brought up!
I wanted to specifically respond to nobody’s reply:
I am sorry that I sounded like an angry young lady! It must have been really late at night and I am seriously struggling with this right now. I did not mean to sound so negative.
I DO NOT automatically write off a person’s advice based on age… I try not to write off anyone’s advice. I have many Rabbanim/teachers that I listen to and respect.
As stated in my previous post. I completely disagree that I have not had any life experiences. YOu are correct in stating that my life experiences were in childhood and in my teenager years… but they are experiences nonetheless. I am actually teaching young teenagers now… and I do not believe that they know everything nor did I think that I knew everything as a teenager. I was very open to ideas and opinions of other people.
When you say that old folks see beyond what you see now, I must say that I completely agree with that statement. That is why it is always suggested to ask ‘wisdom of the old and wise 🙂 ‘ “Zakein= Ze sheKana Chachma”… There are times, however, that even people who are a lot older than you cannot see past what their opinions are. There are also many people, regardless of age, that cannot understand that not everyone in their life wants exactly what they consider best for themselves!
Your statement about the car is, in my case, completely reversed. I grew up around people who felt that cars were something that had to look perfect, be washed frequently, and cost a lot of money so as not to embarrass the owner in front of his neighbors… but I agree with you 100% that all it needs to do is serve its funtion. And when you say You cannot afford a car… You are once again snapping to judgement… I do own a car (albeit one who just about serves its function 🙂 but no less a car…)
I have a lot more things to say… but I’ll end with this… You said ‘don’t discuss this with your opinionated friends…’ Baruch Hashem, Hashem has given me people that I can discuss the situation with… I firmly agree that it is important not to discuss this with your friends… it brings to exaggeration of negativity and lashon horah. I do get chizuk from some of my friends… but aside from this coffee room over here… this is not a ‘conspiracy of teenagers’…
One more thing… I hope I didn’t/don’t sound like an ungrateful, opinionated, impressionable teenager… Judging by the comments, maybe I have been… but these are not my intentions… I am not ‘rebellious’ for the sake of ‘rebellion’… I love my parents very much and I do respect them in many ways… I believe people are entitled to their own opinions as long as it is in conjunction with Daas Torah!!!
Thanks for all the responses… I feel I need to clarify a few points…
I am definitely not saying that I believe my parents do not have any advice to give. I truly respect my parents and I know that they are wise people. I just know that in the area of Hashkafa and frumkeit, they do NOT have the same life experiences and they cannot understand me. Yes, I grew up in their home, but no, I am not the same people. And to say that a girl in their 20’s has had no life experience and is just a teenager who thinks they know everything, is a very ignorant thing to say.
Yes, my parents have had more life experiences… but they did not have my life experiences… Everyone is different…
And also, those comments about expecting parents to pay for things and being immature… How can you judge someone without even knowing them. WHy do you assume that I am a typical single, dependent girl living with and expecting my parents funding. My parents happen to have raised me to be an independent adult. I do not expect any money to be handed to me. ANd if my parents offered it to me, I would be very grateful…. but I would also feel horrible because I know that this is not the lifestyle they wanted me to lead… I’m not trying to impose my views on them, let alone, expect them to ‘sponsor’ something they do not approve of!
I hope to give my parents much nachas. Right now, I need to work out how to proceed with shidduchim… but in no way am I an ungrateful teenager!!!
For all those people who are saying that parents know best… I truly think you are either: a)naiive b)a parent who is in conflict with their children or c)in complete denial…
I know that for myself and for many of my friends who have gone more to the ‘right’ of our families and wish to raise our future children in ways very different than what we grew up with, the balance between respecting parents’ opinions in important matters (such as shidduchim) and standing up to what we believe in is not such a simple one…
My parents tell me all the time: “We know what’s best for you… We’ve lived longer than you… We have more life experience than you have… We are your parents… We know you…” In my head I am always thinking… “You WANT what’s best for me… that doesn’t necessarily mean you KNOW what’s best… Yes, You have lived longer and have more life experiences… but you never had my life experiences… you never met the people I met… You didn’t have the same influences as me… and Yes, you are my parents… and I love you so much… but I’m sorry, there are large parts of me that you don’t know… and cannot understand…”
And this is not just a single incident… I know many many girls who are struggling with the same thing…