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The Jews of Eastern Europe had more pressing issues to deal with than the flu. The Eastern Front was unfortunately located in the heart of major Jewish population centers.Each time the Russians advanced one way, only to have the Germans and Austrians push them back, many Jewish communities were devastated and many Jews died. The estimates of Jewish lives lost range from a low of 100,000 to as high as 600,000.
More Jews died after 1918 when they were caught in the Russian civil war. The Cossacks may have hated the Bolsheviks, but they still took the time to murder Jews. I’ve seen archival of film of Jews being dragged by their beards thru the shtetl street, but it’s Cossacks, not Nazi’s, doing the draggingIn 1918 most Eastern European frum Jews lived in Shtetls with no electricity or modern communication. They also didn’t have a full understanding of what at caused the flu , and wouldn’t have closed yeshiva or shuls
The Spanish flu did not have anything to do with Spain. The government’s of England , France, Germany , Austria and other combatants censored any flu news because they didn’t want their enemies to know how bad they were suffering..Spain, being neutral, had no censorship and was the first country to report on the flu and thus was named for it
CT, Speaker Pelosi just endorsed Rep Omar,despite not only past antisemitic comments but borderline antisemitic ads in current race.
My grand daughter’s yeshiva is in New Jersey. Tuition was $23,000 but when you add in busing etc it goes higher.
CH. I didn’t say the New York average,I said the national average. And I noticed that you didn’t deny my statement that NYC doesn’t provide anything close to a quality education for the money it does spend.
Syag, can you provide examples? My district’s costs include providing free transportation for all private school children within a 20 mile radius. With many frum kids, that’s a lot of busing.
What it doesn’t have is a multitude of administrators make six figure salaries. Before it hit hard times and had to cut costs, a local yeshiva had hired numerous high paid administrators. Another yeshiva, beset by poor fiscal management didn’t pay their rebbeim for about 9 months. People refused to donate to a campaign until the yeshiva replaced the incumbent incompetents with people who knew how to financially run a yeshiva ( i.e. budgeting, fundraising, planning , monitoring spending )Music is used by filmmakers to set the mood. My rav told me that when listening to an all news radio station during my availus, hearing a commercial with background music was not a problem since the intent of the music was not to entertain
Stag, this is what I don’t understand. My granddaughter’s yeshiva high school tuition was approximately $25,000. My local school district spends $22,000 per child. That $22,000 covers not just the high school but also 6 middle and elementary schools. It also covers a varsity football team ( and field ), other varsity sports , a school band, numerous extracurricular activities as well as up to date labs and a highly rated academic program. It’s teachers are also better paid, with better benefits. So , why does my grand daughter’s yeshiva charge more?
CH, you can’t use KJ as an example. They created their school district as a legitimate means to provide funding for the treatment of kids with learning and physical disabilities. The district also pays $8 million for busing for yeshiva kids.
Since there are only about 140 kids in the KJ public school over whom to spread the cost, it creates an artificialloo y high per student costCharlie Using 2017 data, NYC spent $25,199 which was twice the national average . Kiryas yoel’s numbers are are misleading. It’s public school budget includes $8 million to provide busing for yeshiva but there are only about 140 public school kids ( many of whom have disabilities and require significant support) to spread the cost over
Right writer. Is that what you do with your books?
CH, Arizona pays for private school tuition without a huge tax raise. Dollars dno not equate to quality education. NYC spends the highest per student than any other district but gets substandard results.
About 3 years ago there was this debate in the Five Towns area that yeshivas should get taxpayer funding, just like the public schools. The debate ended when it was pointed out that yeshivas would then be required to open their books to the public , and for the first time, give a line by line accounting of their spending. In addition, their budgets would also have to be public and subject to approval by voters in the district.
The “kollel for All ” model is of relatively recent origin ( probably since the 1970’s ) for several reasons.
In Europe, full time yeshiva education beyond the basics was limited to the brightest students . There was no government social systems and the Jewish community was too poor to support B and C students. As it was, the yeshivas required globetrotting fundraisers to stay open.
Ironically, it was the baby boomers, the first Jewish generation granted relatively unrestricted access to law medical and dental schools , that provided the wealth that gave kollels the financial ability to open their doors ( and the creation of Medicaid etc ) to anyone who wants to learn.
I have no problem with government support, with 1qualification. Kollels should give periodic exams to see if the students are actually learning or are there for other reasons ( i.e. for shidduch purposes,or they simply don’t want to work for a living ). Someone not learning shouldn’t be there on the government’s dime.Rabbi Hoffman wrote an article in last week’s 5 Towns Jewish Times
Reb eliezer, can you possibly be more ignorant of our system of government? Trump’s niece signed a non disclosure agreement as part of the settlement of her grandfather’s will.
What does Skokie have to do with Trump?What is truly scary is the increasingly overt fascism of the far left. The long time director of the San Francisco museum of art was accused of racism and forced to resign. His sin? At a meeting regarding diversity of their art collection, he said they would continue to collect art by white artists!!
Apparently issues like this ( and the Times editor ) don’t bother Reb eliezer , GDH, and Charlie HallAnd, again to my 3 friends, your misrepresentation of Trump as being anti Muslim rests with his banning entry from ,i think it was 8 countries, who either had no central government ( Somalia) or otherwise could not or would not vet for terrorists on their soil. The majority were Muslim countries and the list had been prepared by Obama !
To Charlie Hall,Gh,Ctl,
The three of you keep misrepresenting immigration as a whole, and Trump’s position in particular.
The U.S. has a right to decide who can immigrate into the country. Yet the 3 of you act like we are outliers. For example, Canadian immigration is largely limited to skilled individuals.
Trump is against Illegal mmigrants, not legal ones. Nobody has a right to enter the US . It was your sainted FDR who turned away the St.Louis and sent its Jewish passengers back to Europe and death.
Biden has yet to take a position on the looting. He has already abandoned inner city kids education by promising to cut off funding to charter schools and waste more money ( without accountability) on public schools. His 8 years with Obama demonstrate he has no clue on the economy and giving Warren and AOC major roles does not portend good outcomes.Nom, I was laughing at the “reasons” given for needing to see his tax returns. Reb Eliezer somehow left off being a covert Mets fan and eating gebrocht on Pesach Sheni. This is the same DA who has bungled important prosecutions ( or wouldn’t prosecute ) and refuses to prosecute looters and the vandals who desecrated St Patricks Cathedral .
Reb Eliezer 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂
Reb Eliezer, be careful what you wish for. New York has no real interest in Trump’s taxes , other than to force him to do something he was under no legal obligation to do. That’s why I felt he was right to fight against release.. I understand that you dislike Trump, but giving local government the ability to pry into your affairs without cause is something we will all regret
They’re open in Pennsylvania.
GH, you conveniently forgot about all of the women who accused Bill Clinton. With Biden, there is the recording, back in the the 90’s, of the woman’s mother speaking on the air to Larry King about the incident and he has a history of being inappropriately touchy feely with women. When you’re ready to take your head out of the sand, let us know.
The vast majority of Civil War scholars hold the position tjat the top 5 causes of the Civil War were slavery,slavery, slavery,slavery,and slavery. Priort to the war slavery was the only issue. The Kansas-Nebraska of 1854 addressed whether slavery could be introduced into the Western Territories . The Dred Scott case was controversial. Jefferson Davis and virtually all Southern newspapers based their secessionist arguments on slavery. It was not until after the war, when the ” Lost Cause” myth was created, that you see the issue of states rights show up as the primary cause of the war, an attempt by Southern politicians to play down slavery.
Charitynavigator does a great job analyzing all public documents and reporting things like,how much of every dollar donated actually reaches the intended recipients and how many cents per dollar it spends to raise funds..
GH, Trump haters like yourself have already established, by giving Biden and Bill Clinton a pass, that women are no longer to be believed. So,unless you have real proof of sexuall assaults by Trump, not allegations, stop with the accusations
Syag,I really don’t understand your issue with verifying the effectiveness of a charity. If learning that a tzedaka only distributes 40 cents of every dollar collected,why would you call that digging up dirt.
Also, technically speaking charters are public schools, not private schools. That’s why the per child public funding follows the child to the charter.
Joseph, do you ever read secular news sources? NY will never fund school choice . The Democratic party in New York has fought charter schools ( school choice) for years . The teachers union hates the competition and funnels millions of dollars to Democratic officeholders to stop creation of new charters. Charters select students via lotteries ( not cherry picked as alleged by the union) , don’t tolerate disruptive students and instill high expectations in their students. It’s not unusual for poor black kids in ghetto school buildings to have kids in tge charter at or above their age level in math and reading while kids in the public school portion of the building can barely read or write.
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Do you want as a husband someone whose mother stayed in the marriage “for my children’s sake ” but learned from his father to treat his wife as a punching bag and with constant verbal abuse and disrespect?
Gadol, he didn’t request permission to bring it in. It initially was off.
Most complaints come down to parking, or lack of it. 30+ years ago a rebbe wanted to open a shtibel in his house on east 7th street in Midwood. My father in law and others asked where would they park as parking is tight. They were assured that members would walk, even during week. Well, from the first week members were blocking driveways, saying they were were late for minyan. One resident, after being blocked in his driveway, solved the problem. He went into the shul with a boombox and asked the offender to move his car. When the parker refused because he was davening, the resident turned on the boombox full blast, stopping the davening. He said he would do it every time hid driveway was blocked. The car was moved and they stopped blocking driveways
CT, you brought up draft dodging with your comment on Bone Spurs and that you’d have gone to Canada to avoid the draft.
Beooklyn College, which I graduated from in 1970 , is a public college . The Chicago protesters said they would scatter nails from highwsy overpasses , abandon cars on highways and key intersections and violently prevent delegates from attending.
So, what did they expect would be the reaction?CT, ROTC had a right to be on campus, as did chemical companies and other job recruiters you happened to disapprove of. You didn’t want to associate with them? Fine, but don’t prevent others.
I apparently thought you were talking about President Bush, who joined the Air National Guard to avoid Vietnam, or you could be talking about Trump. My point was, which you avoided, was they weren’t alone. Many people finagled their way out of the draft, by buying phony divinity deferments, using connections to get teaching jobs and, yes, getting doctors to phony medical records ( the star point guard of a Brooklyn yeshiva high school basketball team got a medical deferment ).
The terror of the riots were djust as much a result of the protesters. They created the mindset of the police by announcing their plans to disrupt the conventionby whatever means, including violence, which induced the response by Daley. Then , as now, students were accustomed to disrupting colleges, occupying offices, making demands and causing destruction with little or no repercussions. They expected the same in Chicago but found out differently.Joseph, there are very few stay at home moms. In kolel families, somebody has to work. In other families, unless you’re CT Lawyer, yeshiva tuition virtually requires both parents to work.
CT lawyer, so President Bush was the only legal draft dodger?
Why do you think so many Jewish men became teachers? Teachers were exempt. Pro athletes got spots in the National Guard. As i said above, thousands of religious Jews paid for phony divinity deferments. By the way, i never understood the rationale of strikes on college campuses. How did stopping myself and other students from attending class have any impact on ending the war.Haimy,camps are religious institutions? Just being operated by a yeshiva or shul doesn’t qualify. A shul/yeshiva owned home rented out to outsiders is subject to property taxes. Yeshiva operated catering halls in NYC got hit with hefty retroactive water bills last year . Just because a hall is part of a yeshiva doesn’t qualify it as a religious institution exempt from water bills.
Satmar/Kiryat Joel generally speaking doesn’t care about a politician’s position on abortion and gay rights as long as they deliver on unfettered political support of Satmar religious practices in Kiryat Joel and financial benefitsJoseph, before you start throwing morality bricks, keep in mind how our community has denied the existence of child molesters among us and for decades has protected them
What made those times different was the Vietnam War. The civil rights movement led by Martin Luther King were largely non violent but the War helped spawn violent, radical offshoots ( SDS, the Weathermen, Black Panthers ). There was a cottage industry in NY where rabbis established ” yeshivas ” for the purpose of selling divinity draft deferments. For a price they would inform your draft board that you were a rabbinical student and you’d receive a 4D ( later a 1y) deferment. Once you were out of school ( and ineligible for a student deferment, the yeshiva tuition went up. The exception were teachers, who were exempt from the draft, causing a spike in men becoming teachers in the 1960s. The implementation of the draft lottery pretty much ended the paying for a 4D.
Joseph, you have to have a legal reason to pull someone over. Senator Scott, a black conservative Senator has said he’s been pulled over any number of times in Washington DC just because he’s black.
Akuperma, maybe its because of all those chareidim caught smuggling drugs into Europe and JapanCharlie, a major problem in the inner cities are the teachers unions. Black parents aren’t stupid, they know education is the way out of poverty. However, their kids are forced to go to terrible schools and the unions, along withg the Democratic politicians that they throw money at, fight school choice tooth and nail. There is a long waiting line for inner city kids in NYC to get into a charter because the parents see the education they get. The kids all read and do math at or above their age level and this year every kid graduating from Brooklyn’s Sunrise academy was accepted to college.
Do you need 10 male Jews or 10 religiously literate Jews? An am haaretz can help make a minyan even if they don’t know how to respond
The education issue is the fault of the UFT and the Board of Education. You have all these black kids trapped in inner city terrible schools. The parents know this and desperately try to get their children into public charter schools. The black and Hispanic kids in charters typically grade out at the high end state wide in English and math and this year all the graduates from Sunrise were accepted to college. So, why dont more kids go? There’s no room and the union and Deblasio fight against them .
Syag, we discussed this before. Keeping the economy closed creates other, serious health issues. I have glaucoma and could not get my eye pressure checked for 4 months . My eye dr reopened last week. Diabetics, heart patients and many other people with chronic conditions have gone unchecked and are potentially worse. How many cancers have gone undetected because diagnostic procedures have been cancelledm .Hospitals are in grave financial condition because they have been unable to perform the elective procedures that they make money on. The Covid cases are money losers. The economy vs covid was never meant to be the issue. At this point people have to go back to work. Anyone drawing a salary has no business telling the unemployed to stay home. It’s not either or at this point. We can reopen the economy while still taking steps to protect the most vulnerable. Will there be more deaths? Most likely yes, but there is no way to tell if it wouldn’t have happened anyway .
Mlhouse, thats the problem with using national statistics. The 2 if the largest measles hot spots,by zip code,were Boro Park and Williamsburg, 2 centers of large Jewish populations.
Joseph ,You’re not inviting ten people to your home 3 times a day ,7 days a week to play solitaire. Chances are than ten people in your home, not creating a disturbance , would not be an issue. But, if a neighbor found out that you were holding services on a regular basis ( defining the establishment of a shul ) they could report you to the Home Owners Assoc and create a problem. In any event, you cant get more than 15 people in the apartment. Where would their wives daven?
Joseph, please don’t distort. You davening maariv in your house is not the same as establishing an organized shul/church/mosque in your apartment. This discussion is about establishing a breakaway from the YI of Deerfield so, if your comment was in general, it was irrelevant.
We’ve done more tasting than any other country and continue to expand capability. Take your head out of the sand.
Joseph, I’m not an attorney, and neither are you However, just like Abba and others, , you are making statements without ever having seen Century Villsge.
Century Village is a private gated community and as such, may not be subject to the First Amendment. All the roads in CV are private, as is all the land. State universities are subject to the first Amendment, private colleges are not.
Abba, as of 2018 dues in that YI are $1250 a person, not between 2 and 5 thousand.