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@Chaim87 – I don’t disagree with what you state – I only noted that the majority of pre-war European Gedolim opposed Zionism, without noting why. Given all that’s happened since, and what Israel and Zionism are today, I most certainly agree with you that it is far from clear that they’d continue to have the same attitude.
@Haimy – “Ulifi shehotzi atzmo min haklal, kofer b’ikur”. Your attempt to find excuses to separate from the rest of Klal Yisrael is contrary to “Kol Yisrael areivim zeh l’zeh”. As I stated before – you’ve chosen a position, and are now trying to twist anything you can to justify it. The fact that the leaders of the modern State of Israel are not Frum does not negate you – and any other Jew – having an obligation to protect your fellow Jews when they’re in physical danger. And don’t give you your “We appreciate the selflessness of many putting their lives in danger for the sake of others” – we don’t need or want your appreciation – we want you here by our sides. You have a twisted concept of Hakaras Hatov when you are deliberately imposing additional burdens on those you claim to be makir tov to through your cowardly failure to join them.As to whom the leaders of the land are – you know that there is a question asked as to why we celebrate Channukah, given that Beis Chashmona’i ultimately went bad. The answer given is “Lifi shechazra malchus l’Yisrael yoser mimasayim shana” – because Jewish sovereignty was restored for over 200 years (actually a bit less, but that’s what the Gemara says). In other words – Jewish sovereignty, even when the Jews in question are not Shomrei Torah uMitzvos, is considered an inherent positive.
So go on your merry way, smugly self-satisfied that you are following “THE GEDOILIM”. Just don’t fool yourself into thinking that what you’re doing is showing consideration for your fellow Jew through your unwanted “appreciation” – you can keep that to yourself, as we don’t need or want it.
an Israeli Yid
@Haimy – you have a conclusion you want to reach, and dismiss anything that would lead elsewhere.
The quote from Rav Chaim Voloziner is his view and is worthy of respect as such, but is not necessarily widely accepted – are there others who say something similar? If so, please do note whom they are. Also, it’s not clear if the second sentence re: not being able to do so today is from Rav Chaim or not – can you please clarify?
One interesting point – many great poskim were also administrators of communal institutions or dealt with the day-to-day lives of their Kehilos, so they had significant knowledge of everyday life. In fact, I was told by one Rav that the reason he Orech HaShlchan was the main Sefer used for Halacha in Europe was that its author was a practicing Rav of a town – so the piskei halacha were grounded in practical experience.
Not all Rabbanim in Europe did not agree with Zionism, though clearly the majority did not do so. In the Sefardic world, there was much less opposition – but it also was much less prevalent. But all of that is besides the point – the Zionism of that time is significantly different from the Zionism of today, and it is unknown how many of the Gedolim of yesteryear would relate to the currently-existing State of Israel. And please, don’t compare Religious Zionism with Meshichist Chabad – Meshichist Chabad is more akin to early Christianity than to Judaism, as they believe in a false Mashiach who will have a second coming. Comparing it to non-Meshichist Chabad is something I’d disagree with, but is more reasonable – I may think it’s wrong, but it is not a Hashkafic issue where they are no longer practicing Yiddishkeit.
With respect to a Milchemes Mitzva – you are too quick to dismiss your potential obligations in such a scenario. Where do you see in the Halachos of a Milchemes Mitzvah that you need an “acceptable army framework” to join such a Milchama??? “Gedolei Torah” do not plan and fight battles any more than they perform surgery – they should be consulted on the Halachic aspects of both war and medicine, but the bottom line is that the experts are the ones who decide on both how to fight and how to operate. It should be noted that one of the key aspects of the newly-forming Chashmonaim Division is specifically that it will have Chareidi poskim for Halachic matters – so there’s that issue addressed.
an Israeli Yid
@yacr85 – you clearly are not familiar with the situation on the ground here in Israel – or in Gaza and Lebanon, for that matter. The pressure of the combined air and ground war are what drove Hezbollah to agree to a ceasefire and what is forcing Hamas into a deal – so contrary to what you’re saying, they’re very much effective. You are simply making excuses for not participating.
an Israeli Yid
You know, it’s interesting that nobody in this thread has taken the time to actually go through the ma’areh mekomos in the article to explain why they are incorrect or not presented/interpreted properly. Instead, the thrust of the responses are either that “anything associated with Zionism is bad; ergo, we can ignore the whole topic of protecting our fellow Jews”, or “the Gedolim (to include Chareidi Gedolim only) have said no, and we have to follow them” – even though Na’aseh v’Nishma was said in response to HKB”H, not human beings.
This is a topic that warrants serious discussion of the relevant Halachos, whether or not you agree with the Rabbi Dr. Zivotofsky. If the issue is Zionism, have you considered the general Chiyuv to help defend the lives of your fellow Jews, and whether disagreement with Zionism renders one patur from such chiyuv? If you are relying on “the Gedolim”, have you seen detailed arguments from them refuting the Halacha Pesuka that was brought in the article, or explaining why, in light of the facts on the ground (and not the facts in their dreams) those Halachos don’t apply? Reputable Rabbanim will generally explain their psak on the most mundane issues – why not on something of such significance?
an Israeli Yid
Well-written and well-reasoned – but unfortunately, the Chareidi leadership has continually refused to engage in the specific arguments brought, and their followers have been indoctrinated to believe in Rabbinic infallibility via the imposition of the new concept of “Daas Torah” and following THE “Gadol haDor” – something that did not historically exist. Perhaps there will be those who actually use the reasoning ability granted them by HKB”H to actually look into the issues – but it is likely to only be a few yechidim, unfortunately.
A Lone Soldier is a soldier who does not have local support from family. The presumption in the Israeli army is that soldiers have family at home who can support them with erends, housing, and meals when they’re on leave – and those who lack that are given certain benefits to account for that. These benefits include extra time off (to run errands) and extra pay (since they need to pay for housing and food when not on base).
Lone soldiers are not only those who come from Chutz l’Aretz – the category includes those who, for whatever reason, are not supported by family. This can be due to a dysfunctional family at home,. not all that uncommonly, someone from a Chareidi family who has been cut off to one extent or another for having joined the army. Someone from Chu’l also needs the extra time, and has costs that parents may have difficulty paying – so they’re absolutely entitled to the benefits of being a Chayal Boded.
an Israeli Yid
I recall seeing the story about his discussion with the Satmar Rav in a Jewish Observer article many years ago.
As to the fact that Reb Shraga Feivel held the Satmar Rav in high esteem – it is possible to respect someone but still not agree with him. The fact that history has moved on to the point where many of the views then expressed are either no longer relevant in current circumstances or shown to be wrong by subsequent events does not lessen the greatness of those who expressed those views. They were human, and reached their conclusions based on their understanding of the facts as they saw them.
an Israeli Yid
@lakewutt – I understand and in many ways agree with your sentiment – but it is an unfortunate fact that many in the US, and not only in the Yeshiva Velt, see Israel as something far away with minimal impact on them. The bigger issue in my view is what @pekak said about “life going on as usual in E”Y” – for most Israelis, it most certainly is NOT. I have heard from relatives in Chareidi Yeshivos in Yerushalayim that they don’t really feel the war – but that is a small subgroup of people in Israel. It is the group in Israel that is most closely connected to the Lakewood institutions that put on the event in Philadelphia – so perhaps that is why not much consideration was given to what’s going on in Israel.
an Israeli Yid
@ujm – your statement that “Every country, including Israel, exempts multiple classes of people in society. Including, but not limited to, judges, elected politicians, legislators (MKs), university students/educators, certain entertainers, journalists, conscience objectors, Arab Israeli citizens, etc.” is just not accurate. There have been numerous cases of judges and politicians being called up, and universities have had to make accomodations for the massive numbers of students and instructors that were or still are in Miluim. Entertainers and journalists have also been called up, and have been both injured and killed in the war. Conscientious objectors get called – and generally end up in jail if they refuse to serve.
There is an exemption for Arabs – something given due to the fact that it was considered unwise to force them into a situation where they’d potentially be fighting close relatives. There are a number, though, who volunteer and serve.
If you’re going to try to make a point, you need to use facts – not fiction that can be easily disproven by anyone doing a bit of searching on line.
an Israeli Yid
Does the IDF want Chareidim? Unequivocally yes. The IDF needs people, period – they’re in the process of opening up new units as we speak, and needs people to staff those units. If Chareidim are able to fill those roles, the IDF very much wants them in the mix.
There are certain logistical issues with respect to Chareidi service that need to be addressed – and the IDF is very willing to do so. This ranges from male-only units and bases to specific standards of Kashrus – but the Chareidi community needs to engage on this to make it happen.
There are those who, for purported or real ideological reasons, will not serve. This includes those who follow the Eida haChareidis and refuse government benefits as well as army service – and while I do not agree with their view, I acknowledge that they are at least internally consistent. UJM and others that purport to follow their views, though, are mere trolls and kefuyei tova – and seem to somehow ignore the Rambam and Rema on what is required when someone attempts to harm Jews. Then you have those above like Leibidik Yankel and BY1212, who spout flat-out non-truths about what the army and government want.
I was at three Levayos yesterday for 21-year-old Bnei Yeshivos who gave their lives to protect Klal Yisrael. They were killed along with five other soldiers – four non-Bnei Yeshiva Jews and one Druze. The army did not send them to the front lines because they were “mizrochnik” Bnei Yeshiva – they were in combat because they felt an Achrayus to protect Klal Yisrael. As one of the fathers said, his son told him “If I don’t do it, who will”? It’s not that he did not want to stay and sit in Yeshiva – it’s that he saw that he had an achrayus to the Tzibur, and did not shirk his responsibility.
Saying the IDF needs to work on accomodating Chareidi sensibilities is legitimate. Coming up with ever-changing excuses as to why Chareidim should not serve is not.
an Israeli Yid
We have to continue with our Hishtadlus al pi derech hateva, while continuing to daven for the development of Medinat Yisrael into Malchus Yisrael led by Mashiach Tzidkeinu. For now, while Medinat Yisrael is far from perfect, we should celebrate the return of Jewish sovereignty to at least a portion of Eretz Yisrael – after all, Chazal said that even though Malchus haChashmona’im was problematic (Kohanim as kings, the later kings not following Torah uMitzvos), we still celebrate Chanukah “l’fi shechazra malchus l’Yisrael yoser me-masayim shana” – because sovereignty was returned to the Jews for over 200 years (actually about 178, but whatever).
Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael was seen as an inherent positive – even if the Jews ruling Eretz Yisrael were less than perfect.
an Israeli Yid
I’ve regularly bought Brooks Brothers suits for years, and every single one of them had the exact same Shatnez issue – the collar stiffener, which was 100% linen. Fortunately, it’s a pretty easy fix, but you need to make sure that the one fixing it is Makpid to completely remove the entire old stiffener before sewing the new, non-linen one, in place. It can be easier to just cut the old one out, leaving edges in place, rather than ripping out at the seams.
an Israeli Yid
Did you try calling Torah Vodaas? They may have the names/numbers of the members.
It is quite the commitment, and as an Israeli, I am touched by your gesture. This is not for everyone, but as Sam Klein said, you are being Noseh b’Ol Chaveiro in a way that is meaningful.
I note that here in Israel, some people specifically do listen to music now as a way to keep themselves from drowning in the situation – and that is proper too. It is akin to the Abarbenel hiring musicians to play for the Jews leaving Spain on Tisha b’Av in 1492 – he felt that the need to strengthen the spirits of those being expelled was enough of a reason to override the general Issue of music on Tisha b’Av.
an Israeli Yid.
The First bank of Mommy and Daddy – after all, they’re the ones that will be financing you 🙂
Seriously, though – find a US bank that allows you to make ATM withdrawals abroad without fees – First Republic, A”H, used to do this, but I think TD or Capital One may also have this; you should check them out. This will enable you to have cash transferred to you in Israel by having someone in the US (rich Shver?) deposit USD and you can then withdraw as NIS.
In Israel, the services are relatively similar – so it will really be more a matter of convenience. Note that as a non-Israeli, you may have restrictions on having your account go negative – so you should check that out.
As to credit cards – I completely agree with the suggestions above on having a US credit card that does not charge foreign fees. This can be the best way of converting funds, and certain features of US cards that are not standard on Israeli ones can be very helpful – though you need to check if there’s a country exclusion for Israel. You should also try to get an Israeli card in Israel (it’s generally the same card as the one you use at an ATM), since certain vendors either don’t take or have issues with non-Israeli cards.
an Israeli Yid
More trouble than when? The time of the Churban? The time of the Crusades? The Inquisition? Tach v’Tat? The Holocaust?
Don’t get me wrong – there are serious issues facing Jews around the world. But it’s also important to keep a sense of perspective – and a sense of Jewish history.
an Israeli Yid
To Trrolly McTrollface and Some Jew – most of those you quote were no longer alive when Rav Teictel, HY”D, wrote his Sefer. He, too, had been anti-Zionist before the war – but saw the Holocaust as a Siman Min haShamayom that he was wrong. And it would have been rather difficult to get haskamos while in wartime Hungary – which is where he was when he wrote it.
As to HKB”H’s Cheshbonos (sorry about the typo above) – those are for HKB”H to make, not us. I simply believe that He runs the world, and if He doesn’t want something to happen – it doesn’t happen. I don’t believe that Hashgacha Pratis ceased in Eretz Yisrael in 1948 and all that happened there thereafter was from the Sitra Achra, as Satmar and their hangers-on do – and if you can’t see the Yad Hashem in what’s been built here since, you are simply fooling yourself.
None is as blind as he who won’t see.
an Israeli Yid
To the resident troll – you attribute the Holocaust to Zionism. Rav Yissachar Shlomo Teichtel HY”D, one of the Gedolim in prewar Europe, wrote a whole Sefer, Eim haBanim Semeicha, on why the Holocaust was punishment for the Jews in Europe ignoring the opportunity to return to Eretz Yisrael presented by the establishment of the British Mandate in the San Remo conference. Me? I leave it to HKB”H to keep his own Chahbonos – he doesn’t need me (or anyone else, for that matter) to do it for him.
an Israeli Yid
Red – of course you can’t. It is almost funny, though,.how perfectly he personifies Chazal’s saying of “Kol haPosel -b’Mumo Posel”. He resorts to referring to me as a “malevolent misbegotten being”, which is actually quite funny considering.his role as chief troll here – and I’d say that his description is a pretty good synopsis of what.a troll is. Most definitely a real piece of work.
ujm – aside from being a Jew-hating troll, you’re also an ignoramus. Chisinau and Kishinev are the same place, yet you cite the 1903 pogrom that took place there twice.
Red – as the parent of soldiers, I fully agree. I do not.celebrate the death of Gaza civilians, but I do not mourn them either; it is simply necessary to do what must be done, while.minimizong the risk to all Israelis, both soldiers and civilians.
A brother in caring for Klal Yisrael,
an Israeli Yid
There used to be one in Chaim Berlin years.ago for Israeli guys learning there. That being said, there is an issue of being poretz geder in being too open about celebrating Simchas Torah too publicly in Chu”l on the first day.
As to doing melacha privately on the second day – there are those who are matir, including the Chacham Tzvi.
Sounds like it was a literal translation of the New England expression of something that’s really good as “wicked good”.
May whomever is ultimately selected be a Ro’eh Ne’eman for his Keheila.
an Israeli Yid
mobico – I heard explicitly from R’ Yisroel Reisman that when Rav Dovid Feinstein was in Aveilus for his father, he Davened Mincha for the Amud at Ahi Ezer prior to giving a Shiur there. While he used his standard ha’avara, he Davened the Nusach of Edot haMizrach in both the quiet Shmoneh Esrei and Chazaras haSha”tz – with the reason being that (a) a Sha”tz is supposed to follow the Minhag haMakom for Nusach, and (b) the quiet Shmoneh Esrei is only a preparation/practice for the Sha”tz’s “main” Shmoneh Esrei – which is the one he says out loud.
an Israeli Yid
simcha613 – your thought lines up well with the Chasam Sofer’s explanation of “Kol Berama Nishma” – Rachel Imeinu got HKB”H to agree that B’nei Yisrael would be able to start returning to E”Y even before the full ge’ula. It’s unfortunate that “einayim lahem – v’lo yir’u” applies to many of Acheinu Kol Beis Yisrael who have not yet taken advantage of the opportunity to return home to the land that HKB”H has his eye on “meireishis shana v’ad acharis shana”.
an Israeli Yid
Lakewhut – you expect an intellectually honest explanation of this question in the YWN coffee room? Given the resident trolls (hello, Joseph/ujm/whatever name you’re using this year), reflexively anti-Israel posters, etc., I wish you luck with that.
Yes.
ujm – I actually agree with you on this one. Wow.
an Israeli Yid
The chiyuv to hear every Parsha is a chiyuv of the Tzibur, not the Yachid – so technically, you’re OK if you miss a Parsha. That being said, if you’re in the US with a group of people, you can see if you can find a Minyan (and Ba’al Koreh) who are willing to Lein the whole Parshas Bechukosai at Shabbos Mincha before you fly back (i.e., call up Kohen, Levi, and then finish the Parsha on Yisrael) – that’s what happened once in a situation I was in where I and a group of relatives flew in to the US for a wedding. Good luck!
an Israeli Yid
In London, sunrise in late December/early January is as late as 8:06 AM, and in Amsterdam, it’s as late as 8:50 AM, and that’s on standard time. What do people in those places do? If I remember correctly, people in the NY area in the 1970s went to Minyanim in the area where they worked due to this – so I guess places like the Wall Street Synagogue, or places on the Lower East Side, will get an influx of Mispalelim.
For purely personal reason, I like the US having year-round DST, since it makes the time difference between NY and Israel only six hours for part of the year – much better for work (two overlapping work hours vs. one) and for personal reasons if I want to speak with people in the US.
an Israeli Yid
TS Baum – you are incorrect that Biden is the 45th person elected president – he is only the 41st.
Presidents James Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Chester Arthur, and Gerald Ford were never elected president, and in fact, Ford was never even elected vice-president.an Israeli Yid
Mod-29 – every single participant in this thread is using a handle that is clearly not a real name – making them anonymous. I do concede, though, that not everyone here is a troll – though there are definitely some here who are regularly trollish in other threads (hello, Joseph/ujm/whatever handle you’re using today!).
You should ask your personal Posek, not a bunch of anonymous internet trolls.
an Israeli Yid
amom – much Hatzlacha to you. Almost 30 years ago, my wife and I found ourselves in a similar position. The conclusion was that it was time for me to leave Kolel and find a job so that we could support ourselves.
I spoke with my R”Y, Rav Yisroel Belsky ZT”L, prior to taking this step. He told me then that what’s more important than when one leaves Kolel to join the working world is the attitude one takes when leaving – i.e., does one continue to place one’s obligations to Torah and Yiddishkeit at the center of one’s value system, or does one push it to the side to pursue the American dream. I’ve striven to make sure that, while fully active in the professional world, Torah comes first – I’ve continued to be Kove’a Itim since, including, while still in the US, still showing up in Yeshiva for morning Seder on Sundays, since I did not have work obligations then (Sunday afternoons were reserved for doing things with my family – they deserve some attention too, after all).
Much Hatzlacha to you, whatever way forward you ultimately choose.
an Israeli Yid
Depends where. In Israel, for example, one can do reasonably with a somewhat lower income due to the Israeli government’s generous support for Torah education and other requirements of Frum life that need to be paid for privately in the US. In the US, the situation is obviously different.
Medical care is also generally less expensive in Israel.
an Israeli Yid
Nochum Dokshitz – can you give Mekoros for your statements that Dina d’Malchusa being only for financial matters, and that the only issue otherwise is not getting caught due to Chilul Hashem? In any case, even according to your stated logic, there’s always a better-than-you-think chance that you’ll be caught, thereby causing a Chulul Hashem – so that in and of itself should be a reason to FOLLOW THE LAW.
an Israeli Yid
The 10% infestation rate cited in the article does not mean that 10% of the beans are actually insects or filth – it means that 10% of the beans show signs of insect infestation or filth. The actual percentage that consists of insects is much lower, and is batul. As the beans are then roasted and ground up, the odds of there being an entire insect are tiny – so drink up and enjoy!
an Israeli Yid
Why would there be an issue of Ba’al Tosif? Technically, tzitzis (other than the required p’sil techeles) can be any color – there is no requirement for them to be white. As such, even if the current version of techeles is not correct, Ba’al Tosef would not be an issue. I could see that yuhara could be an issue, whether it is correct or not (though more of an issue if it’s not), but even that is questionable.
As an aside – Rav Yisrael Belsky, Z”L, personally told me that he thought the current techeles from the Machon P’til Techelet is correct. He further told me that the only reason he did not wear it publicly was on account of yuhara – so he only wore it on Shabbos on his Talis Katan, when it would be hidden under his Kapoto.
an Israeli Yid
HaKatan – you keep on repeating the same tired points, while either ignoring or denigrating the views of those with whom you disagree. The volume of your verbiage does not reflect the strength of your view – bloviation does not equal evidence. I therefore see no point in continuing this dialogue.
Wishing you a K’siva v’Chasima Tova,
an Israeli Yid
HaKatan – I specifically did not state that Rabbi Hoffman wrote a review of Rabbi Shapiro’s Satmar-oriented sefer. I stated that you should read what Rabbi Hoffman wrote for a counterview. Satmar – and Rabbi Shapiro – are perfectly entitled to their view. Rabbi Hoffman’s article presents a different view, and notes the Gedolim that supported such contrary view.
You have chosen a Shita to follow. It is far from the universal – or even majority – view at this time, and attempting to say otherwise – or to state with certainty what the Gedolim of yesteryear would have said today – is simply an attempt to fool yourself.
an Israeli Yid
Rabbi Shapiro has his Satmar-affiliated shita, but it is far from being the mainstream view. His insistence on painting the “Zionists” as a single monolithic bloc, all of whom were bent on eradicating Torah from Klal Yisrael and replacing it with Zionist views, is misguided at best and disingenuous at worst.
For a well-written and cogent counterview, just look up Rabbi Yair Hoffman’s review of this book.
an Israeli Yid
Joseph – that’s right, dismiss anything that doesn’t agree with your view as not true. It’s not from some “Zionist book” – it’s a widely-quoted story that is cited by many non-Zionist sources as well (I googled it and found multiple sources immediately). I also found the following re: Rav Chaim Shmulevitz ZT”L of Mir:
“At the outbreak of the Yom Kippur War, when throughout the country the alarm was sounded at the height of the day, yeshiva students gathered at the Mir Yeshiva in Jerusalem shelter to hear words of encouragement. The Rosh Yeshiva Rabbi Chaim Shmulevitz zt”l first began addressing the fighting in the front: ‘The soldiers,’ he said, ‘who risk their lives for our rescue at this time – the entire world cannot stand in their midst. Our obligation is to pray about and for them has no bounds. If for a person who opened the door of his house before his friend Chazal have said that he owes him his life, let alone those who give up their lives, we must thank him without limit.’ ”
So, to the original question – can you please enlighten us as to why in your Gadlus you disagree with Rav Shlomo Zalman, ZT”L? For that matter – with Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, ZT”L too? I’m sure you must have a good reason to disagree with the Gedolim, oh Wise One of the YWN Coffee Room.
Also – you are ignoring the answer I gave as to why this particular day was chosen – it is the Yahrtzeit of a large group of Jews who were massacred by Arabs because they were Jews.
an Israeli Yid
Joseph – just to clarify – you’re disagreeing with Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l, who, when alive, was considered the leader of Chareidi Jews in Israel, who clearly said that the soldiers buried at Har Hertzel are Kedoshim. Is that correct? If so, can you please tell me why you, the eminent YWN Coffee Room Gadol, disagree with Rav Shlomo Zalman? I’m sure you must have some deep Amkus in Torah that supports your view against one of the preeminent Gedolim of the generation, and we would be blessed if you’d enlighten us with your brilliance.
As to why this particular day was chosen – it was the day on which Kfar Etzion fell, and its defenders were massacred by the Arab attackers. A Yahrtzeit is a time to commemerate, no?
an Israeli Yid
To those asking why this is different from Holocaust or Inquisition – my Rav gave a very good explanation. This is not a Sha’as haShmad, where we are being persecuted because of our Yiddishkeit, and where there is therefore a specific inyan to be Moser Nefesh. Here, HKB”H is the one who is effectively telling us to stay home.
We need to be mispalel on our own that this Magefa end – as David haMelech said when there was a Magefa in Klal Yisrael “Nifla Na b’Yad Hashem Ki Rabim Rachamav” – we accept our punishment from Hashem, and rely on his mercy, and are thankful that that the punishment is not from the hand of Man.
an Israeli Yid
On the general issue of “mishing” – there are many who will not mish on Pesach, but have no problem buying products produced by others – whether commercially or individually – before Pesach. The reason is that before Pesach, one can be somech on Bitul even for Chametz Gamur (though that of course is not what we want to do) – while on Pesach, Chametz is not Batul even in 1.000, so people want to be extra careful on Pesach itself.
As an aside – I was told by my grandmother that the reason people had a Minhag not to eat garlic is because in Europe, farmers used to dip the garlic in flour before bringing it to the marketplace to sell in order to make it look whiter.
an Israeli Yid
Following is from Rav Hershel Schachter, via YUTorah. You can find the whole thing, including the Hebrew with the Ma’areh Mekomos, if you go to that site and look for “Piskei Corona 14”. I tried copying the Hebrew over, but the formatting got messed up, so I only copied the English.
an Israeli Yid
Ten men who are standing on different porches cannot be joined together in order to constitute a
minyan even though they can all see each other. In order to constitute a minyan for Devarim
She’bekedusah (like Kaddish and Kedushah), the ten men must all be standing in the same room. (It
should be noted that in smaller spaces, such as a shiva ho
use, care should be taken to make sure that ten
men are davening together in the same room. If less than ten are davening in one room and less than ten
in an adjacent room, even though they can clearly see one another, this would not constitute a minyan.
In order to create a minyan there must be ten participants davening in the same room.)
It should certainly be discouraged for people to make a minyan outside on the lawn even if they maintain
the minimum distance recommended by the health department. One should not place himself even
into a situation of a doubtful sakanah in order to daven with a minyan.HIE – I’m not a mumcheh, so I can’t say for certain that “ro’in zeh es zeh” is or is not enough; I just recall that when we had ten people split between two rooms, even when they could see each other, my Rosh Yeshiva would insist that we have a minimum of ten in a single room before he’d allow us to Daven as a Minyan. It could well be that we’re now in a situation where we can be Somech on Shitos that are more Meikil on this – and it could also be that my Rosh Yeshiva was being Machmir on a Shita that is not universally accepted only because it was possible to be Machmir at the time.
an Israeli Yid
HIE – are you sure that this counts as a Minyan, since everyone is in a different Reshus? As I remember the Halacha (and I could be mistaken), you need to have ten men in a single Reshus to have a Minyan. Someone who is not in that Reshus and Davens with them is considered to be Davening b’Tzibur, but can’t count towards the Minyan.
Here in Israel, the Misrad HaBri’ut is still allowing outdoor Minyanim of ten exactly, provided social distancing is observed. As such, I’ve seen a number of “parking lot Minyanim”, consisting mainly or exclusively of people from that single building. The Rabbanut allows this, but there are many individual Rabbanim who are either forbidding such Minyanim or strongly discouraging them – and each person should follow his Posek, provided they are within the guidelines of the Misrad HaBri’ut.
an Israeli Yid
I await the apologies/retractions of akuperma and the others who were saying, long after it was obvious that it was not the case, that this is no more than “a bad flu”, especially now that the Frum/Yeshivish community is affected so heavily.
I’m not holding my breath…
an Israeli Yid