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Your friends, and your parents’ friends, could be intermediaries. Mine were.
It is legit for someone (Alter Rebbe) to celebrate being freed from (Russian) prison – and for his students to continue celebrating. And for other friends to join a l’chaim. What’s the big deal?
Syag > I was just commenting on your import of secular education.
I thought I explained my position at length. I consider secular education useful for a large part of Jewish community in order to find the right parnasa and be productive members of Jewish community and society in general. I think this is not against Torah values and there are authorities that hold same way. I am less confident that there is no risk sending kids to college and thus I am all for making college safe – Jewish/local/online colleges, or at least colleges with strong communities.
Syag > And by the way, “i didn’t feel anything” is what people say to a third party when they don’t want to tell you what they are thinking
I agree here. I hear from people that they are under pressure not to sound too picky, so they are coming up with such answers. And also we should nit press ladies into marriage. They will be mostly the ones raising the kids looking, and behaving, like the gentleman they are planning to marry. They have a right to like those middos.
Avira > take a look at the kind of young people who are working/going to college and not yeshiva under 25. they’re people you would agree are not very religious, by and large.
this is a good question. Are you looking at whole Jewish campus population? Then, yes. But it is not campus that made them less religious. The question is about observant people who go to college. I know quite a number who are observant, some are learning while in college, going to campus or community shuls. I did not meet people who came to campus and stop being observant because they heard something from the lecturers, although maybe I am just not in places where I could meet such. When I was in college some time ago, the campus Rav was of the opinion that kids are of certain condition before they come to campus, some are ready to go off-the derech and just waiting to get out of the house (he was dealing mostly with MO). Maybe you mean that in certain communities, the learners are respected and those who do not succeed go to college and thus are already vulnerable.
again, my experience is biased to mostly seeing college-educated observant people, and not those who go there and do not come out well. What is your experience? I presume you see more of the input into the system.
ujm, we indeed bring a story of Yochanan as an extreme example, not as a typical case. We also have an educational system that learned from the previous times.
Avira > what do you think happens after a 19 year old leaves seminary and goes straight to college and work? … unless the girl or boy does something to fortify themselves,
By this time, B’H the young person had about 15 years of Jewish schooling. Should we expect that they are able to fortify themselves by this time (I presume parents, friends and community did not abandon them)? I would understand that there could be some difficult cases, but the majority should be able to withstand going to classes or work.
There is a question why Yaakov needed to go to the yeshiva after learning with his Father. The answer is that Shem was teaching how to live in a goyishe world. So, maybe those yeshivos whose graduates are not ready to face the world, should add such subjects.
Avira > what do you think happens after a 19 year old leaves seminary and goes straight to college and work? … unless the girl or boy does something to fortify themselves,
By this time, B’H the young person had about 15 years of Jewish schooling. Should we expect that they are able to fortify themselves by this time (I presume parents, friends and community did not abandon them)? I would understand that there could be some difficult cases, but the majority should be able to withstand going to classes or work.
There is a question why Yaakov needed to go to the yeshiva after learnign with his Father. The answer is that Shem was teaching how to live in a goyishe world. So, maybe those yeshivos whose graduates are not ready to face the world, should add such subjects.
> as someone who has previously mentioned that he has traded Torah values for higher education I can see why that would be your assumption.
I am not sure what is the point of the above insult, but I am actually asking questions here, not making any assumptions. See question marks at the end of the sentences.
the shadchan goes to the war “with the army [s]he has”.
What is usually the basis for proposed matches? Are shadachnim capable of evaluating middos? Are potentially abusive husbands matched to strong-fisted women?
How do potential kallos and their families evaluate effect of learning on the bachur? Does someone in yeshiva gives objective feedback if someone comes late, takes other’s place in shul, etc or is it generic “he is a wonderful bochur” for everyone?
19th century Republicans were not on TV. The way I learnt indeed that when TV came up with the colors, they put Dems as blue so not to associate them with the Soviet Reds.
There was a shidduch crisis 60 years ago – it was Jews marrying other peoples. The alleged “shidduch crisis” is not about how to approach people, it is about rapid growth of the community, B’H, and thus, there are more boys than girls 3 years younger. Even without shadchanim, girls would want more mature chatanim, and boys would want younger kalos.
I am thinking one of the problem of the current system is that there are many people who do this professionally that may disregard matches that are not advantageous for the shadchan. A solution is simple – try helping singles find a match through your own contacts.
I mean BideNero
Avram > . When the Delta wave subsequently rolled in, instead of dragging the Pharmaceutical executives into inquiries and investigating their claims
don’t blame vaccine makers for ineptness of Biden’s administration. They are seemingly only thinking about how they look. Trump was also thinking about that – while running Warp Speed at the same time.
Bourda writes that when Israelis reported to them that immunity from Delta wanes several months later, Pfizer immediately publicized that and recommended boosters, and was first met with anger from Biden’s people (including Fauci) for bad politics, but then they came around to the facts. Still, US is almost the least-boosted (and 2-nd boosted) country among OECD and this is the main source of current high mortality among seniors, while Nero declared victory and fiddles with student loans.
April 29, 2022 (HealthDay News) — Thousands of COVID-19 deaths in the U.S. South could have been avoided if more people masked, social distanced, kept kids from school and made other behavioral changes to reduce the spread of the virus, researchers say.
In other words, if they had acted more like folks up North.
The study authors suggested that if the entire United States had followed the lead of the Northeast in taking such measures, more than 316,000 COVID-19 deaths might have been prevented before Omicron became the dominant variant.
More than six in 10 of those potentially avoidable deaths were in the South, according to the team at Georgetown University School of Nursing and Health Studies, in Washington, D.C.
“Our study is the first to quantify avoidable deaths and confirm that both COVID-19 deaths and avoidable deaths disproportionately occurred in the South,” study co-author Michael Stoto said.
this is not really about walking without mask, but seemingly more about Republicans not believing in vaccines,
Jacob Wallace, Paul Goldsmith-Pinkham & Jason L. Schwartz Excess Death Rates for Republicans and Democrats During the COVID-19 Pandemic, NBER September 2022Registered Republicans in Florida and Ohio had higher excess death rates than registered Democrats, driven by a large mortality gap in the period after all adults were eligible for vaccines
We estimate substantially higher excess death rates for registered Republicans when compared to registered Democrats, with almost all of the difference concentrated in the period after vaccines were widely available in our study states. Overall, the excess death rate for Republicans was 5.4 percentage points (pp), or 76%, higher than the excess death rate for Democrats. Post- vaccines, the excess death rate gap between Republicans and Democrats widened from 1.6 pp (22% of the Democrat excess death rate) to 10.4 pp (153% of the Democrat excess death rate). The gap in excess death rates between Republicans and Democrats is concentrated in counties with low vaccination rates and only materializes after vaccines became widely available.
To calculate excess deaths, we use 577,659 deaths of individuals linked to their 2017 voting records in Ohio and Florida who died at age 25 or older between January 2018 and December 2021.
These expected deaths are calculated non-parametrically using 2019 data by aggregating deaths into counts Nmcpa,2019 at the month-by-county-by-party-by-age-bin level. The age bins used were 25-64, 65-74, 75-84, and 85-and-olderin the Covid Pre-Vaccine period, the association between excess death rates and county-level vaccination rates are nearly identical for Democrats and Republicans.
in the Covid Post-Vaccine period, there is a clear .. difference between Democrats and Republicans with higher excess death rates for Republicans in counties with lower vaccination rates. By comparison, the difference in excess deaths between Republicans and Democrats is nearly zero in counties with the highest vaccination rates.Syag, we still have people dying frmo Covid. They get it from other people. So, the more someone interacts closely/without mask/without vaccine – the more that person contributes to the pandemic. You mentioned yourself that you would avoid sick people, and with asymptomatic covid, if you are not careful, you have a chance to pass it on. The reason I am conscious to that, I do interact with some older people, and I take precautions before and during meetings.
I’ll give you some numbers in the next post.
I saw stats explaining some of the strange events lately – many WFH dems moved from very blue states to warmer R- states and changed stats in Georgia, Arizona, etc and some House districts.
Before tht, R- had home advantage – their share in the gov was higher than the votes. It is more even now.
syag, common, you are discussing some complicated and rare cases. I am suggesting to look at very simple, very basic fact: most people who were careful did not do anything bad, did not snitch, etc. Most people who were not careful put others in danger.
I do not understand what exactly is Syag challenging. There are obviously multiple random events leading to someone getting sick, but what is so difficult in the idea that the more someone who is with some chance having a virus being uncareful in presence of others leads to the other illness? Torah does not disagree with basic statistics and lots of Talmud considers effect of one’s actions on other people. Maybe you can clarify.
Nedorim 39-40 that praises bikur cholim seems to describe both benefits – spiritual (people davening for the sick person) and material (R Akiva visit leading to better health care). As is often the case, Gemora does not seem to argue one against the other but asks us to keep both in mind. As part of the discussion, there are statements about what plants are beneficial and how one would recommend a cure to the other. It seems to be assumed that people who can cure someone else should.
> because the secular world respects doctors so much
I am not fixated on titles. Dr. Jill Biden is not relevant. It is just that a heart surgeon saves thousands of lives, way more than an average Yid who is diligent at bikur cholim. Should we suspect him of all the bad things that you cited, or stam show him the respect?! Same goes for someone who came up with a new medicine, or invented seatbelts. I don’t think we show enough respect to such people. We tend to think that “they are doing their jobs”.
bottom line – what are difference in schar between people doing mitzvas for free or as part of their job?
Avira, all the midrashim saying that Yaakov is afraid of this and that point that he is not sure that all the brochos he is getting will be fulfilled. It has to do with emes, as he is always asking himself questions whether he is correct in his actions. As you are suggesting, he could have easily convinced himself – surely, I am a tzaddik and he is a Rasha, I got all the vrochos, im Lavan garti, nothing bad will happen with me.
common,
99% of people who were careful did not do mesirah. I understand you are concerned about 1%.
99% of people who were not careful presented risk to other people. 99% is more concerning than 1%.We are all familiar with popular chumros bein Adam l’Hashem. Is there an accepted list for bein Adam l’Havero?
If not, we should learn such from Gemora. Gemora has examples of how special Rabbis behave. There are also halachik discussions where something may or may not be allowed because it may lead to something else. Conclusion is often more permissive. We can learn chumros form the other opinion there.
In many cases, chumra is a neder, taken by you or your ancestors. Changing it would require hatarat nedorim. Taking nedarim is generally discouraged. Many examples of nedarim is due to impulsivity or personal conflict (I swear I am not giving you my saw any more), or desire to control your impulses. It is way better to not do them, but some may need it.
Shmili, you don’t have to always ask one Rav. It may work out depending on a person and on the Rav.
Sometimes, a person who is already knowledgeable may ask shailos in medicine from a Rabbi who specializes in that, and so on. Of course, the same may be achieved by you asking your Rav and Rav going to a specialist. This is, l’havdil’ like a primary doctor recommending a specialist.
Mod, respect that you actually follow the discussion and show flexibility and sense of humor.
Avira > eisav had lost his yerushah when yaakov got the brochos;
Right, but Yaakov is somehow still worrying… Maybe he did not learn those Rashis. Maybe this is a part of Yaakov’s middah of Emes that he is always questioning whether he is good enough and sees zechuyos of others even if there is a tirutz. I can easily see a modern “learned” version of Yaakov meeting Esav’s malach and then proving to him that Esav has no olam habo, etc, convincing the malach to just give up.
I tried to look up original report, and there is not much detail there. Seems like something done for some international volunteering day, which doubtless is a goyishe influence. It would be really interesting to understand what is exactly happening. I found an older 2004 Israeli research saying that being religious positively correlates with volunteering among Jews, but not among Arabs …
I am also not 100% sure whether we want to praise people for volunteering or not. On one hand, volunteering does show person’s middos, on the other hand, do we really think that a person who is doing bikur cholim after heart surgery is greater than a person who mamash did the heart surgery.
Do we have a general view about it? Does the one who is not paid better than the one who spend years – and 100Ks of his own money – studying for the job?The Daf Nedarim 40 discusses something related about what counts as a mitzva or paid work, and also that saving person’s life from sickness is like finding a lost objects for that person.
Mod, respect.
care to elaborate?
My apology to R Avigdor Miller ZT’L. I was just testing whether mods are allowing badmouthing of only some Rabonim but not others, seems like they are just in a relaxed mood today.
Then you misunderstood. Your post was only allowed because you were responding to the other poster in like fashion, not to insult Rabbi Miller chalila
an interesting question – why Yaakov was worried about Esav’s Zionism and not Efron’s. Several ideas:
1) Yaakov is the person who worries about his zechuyos often, Avraham did not so much. R Twersky connects this with low self-esteem in a different place (Midrash that Yaakov was offered a chance to go up the ladder, but did not).
2) We have here an issue of who is inheriting. Not Efron. Esav has zechuyos as part of his claim.
3) Yaakov is afraid of encountering Esav. It is just about comparing with him. Efron could be a tzadik gamur but he is not coming to confront Yaakov.
Why would someone quote Avigdor Miller, he is just a rabbi from brooklyn
It is 4.
Midrash Rabba – why is it now particular famous?! it is called “rabba” somehow
Meam Loez expands on that (as he usually does 🙂
Vilna Gaon – unreferenced by R Twersky. I am sure if you ask in your community, someone knows by heart
R Twersky – expands on both Midrash and Gaon, in his parsha book.Avira, I gave you 4 sources that you denied existing and you proceed butchering one of them to somehow fit into your original thinking. This is called crystallization – a person prefers his first position even if he encounters contradicting information later. I expected that you would ask yourself a question – is it random that I missed such a midrash, or is it due to where and how I learned and then give a dvar Torah about this Midrash at your shul shalosh sudos and report to us whether your friends did or di not know this.
n0 > but going to all different rabbonim may make you confused in your knowledge of Torah
this is a serious question. I learned it the following way: it is better to first learn under one Rav or in one place, so that you got knowledge systematically, without skipping. After that, it is beneficial to go learn from multiple teachers to acquire different approaches.
One allusion: Alter Rebbe says that he was thinking about going to Gaon to learn Torah or to Maggid to learn Davening. He says “I knew a little about Torah, but nothing about Davening” …
IF you know that we follow Rav in some cases and Shmuel in others, and then you have a financial question, would you call Rav?
n0> I’m not aware of any Chassidim not using an eiruv because of a chumra.
I did not research this beyond the visuals. I understand that this is a legit halachik difference between the communities (unless you hold that chasidim are illegitimate group of Ashkenazim who changed the minhag), not a chumra. My quote from Sephardim is that they’ll follow Ashkenazi community halakha when it contradicts theirs. Same reasoning they are sporting black hats, blending into the yeshivish community.
lakewhut > What if the Rabbi Doctor knows something a different Rabbi doesn’t
Complicated shailohs should go to Rabonim specializing in that area. Medical degree is not necessary, but it would not hurt either. R Twersky (obviously a such expert) mentions in one of his Q&As that the person should consult a Rabbi who specializes in the topic under discussion. Hopefully, communal Rabbis have seichel to see when a question needs to go to the specialist.
jackk > Similar to Oil companies making record profits this year and everyone blames Biden.
I don’t want to interrupt your lovely discussion, but this argument shows that you are way off track. You can blame free market faiulures after all government actions are done right and the market is still not working. Expecting free market to be healthy despite all kind of restrictions is a way fascists and communists convince people to make even more restrictions leading to a black hole. Same applies to medical market – did we try making, say, insurance portable between states and any other free-market reforms? Trump issued regulations to make hospital prices transparent, the due date was early in Biden administration, I am not sure what the status of that is. Maybe someone knows.
This is a good start in reporting. In US/NYC context, a similar report on graduates of the yeshivos would help respond to NYT articles. But it got to be detailed and transparent – what kind of volunteering, how do you measure that, etc.
Dr. Pepper, I am a small business employer and look over available policies every year with brokers. I totally agree with you – somewhere around ACA all plans became unaffordable and deductibles are such that insurance is rarely used (Baruch Hashem). So, essentially ACA is a combination of a tax and elimination of medical insurance as we knew that except in catastrophic cases. And elimination of doctor’s private businesses that used to be a parnosah for previous generation of Yidden. Right now, people who frequent hospitals report that where there were Jewish doctors, there are now other ethnicities.
There is an issue of public behavior in a community. I know Sephardi Rabbis who tell their people to use Ashkenazi eruv even when it is not according to Sephardi halakha. (I am not sure though whether such Rabbis use the eruv themselves). Chasidim, typically, would not use such an eruv even if their “Sephardi” halochos are acquired …
So, according to this shita, if you live in the community that uses an eruv, you can too. But, if there is no community minhag, as it is – sadly – often the case, then you should follow halochos of your narrow kahal.
Ubi, nice comparison of the communities. Now, try putting yourself in the Rashi’s shoes, if I may. Did Rashi mean to foreclose our thinking about Chumash? Did he order printers to put his commentary in a special Rashi script to underscore that nothing else should be said after and avoid confusion?
Another option is that Rashi is there every time you are reading a posuk and have a concern, you are likely to find a helpful Rashi giving you an explanation. As if he is preparing you to be able to master the text and start serious analysis after that.
> who mentions yishuv EY
Bereshis Rabba. Meam Loez quotes it.
Rav Twersky also quotes Gra on this in the context of Gra failing to reach EY. Would be interesting to see the context if someone can find it.Tzait to daven for rain in Iraq
Are Roster, you sound like the matrona who argued w/ Rabbi Akiva on how easy it is to marry people off. Like her, you may also push the divorce rates up also! Telshe Rosh yeshiva back in the 70s answers the question what causes family problems with “bochurim marrying too young”.
coffee, Yaakov was afraid that Esav had 2 mitzvos – live in EY and respect for parents. I would not be hutzpadik with, for example, someone who does those 2, and eats kosher, and keeps shabbat, and served in the army, just because he is not wearing the hat you do.
Avira, you described the situation well – there is a variety of opinions among Rishonim, and you reduce them to those that Brisk and Lakewood approve of. But why specifically them – because, you would say, they are the ones who follow Rishonim … I am not saying that your position is not reasonable and I sympathize with being weary of bad influence, but the proof is chicken & egg or “how do we know that Yaakov Avinu wore bekesha”.
Avira, yes, I recall that option (in Makos?). I think it is a general statement of an option available to beis din in cases where do not have acceptable witnesses but are sure of the guilt. Nothing to do with the political situation during late BM2, which is what Gemoras in Shabbos and AZ are talking about.
bring your sources and explain what you think